Criminal lawsuit over iPhone battery slowdowns filed in France, where planned obsolescence...

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  • Reply 21 of 108
    bshank said:
    lewchenko said:
    I think this could be a turning point for Apple in terms of them losing "trust and integrity" with the general population.

    At a family Christmas visit, where most people have iPhones, this was surpisingly a hot topic - with non techy people.

    And the consensus was that apple played a devious card by not telling them their phone battery was compromised, and thus slowing down the phone. People were angry that they probably upgraded from their 6 recently due it being slow as a snail when they could have just got a new battery. Even worse that you can go to an Apple store and they will test the battery and say its fine even though iOS is slowing down your CPU due to the battery. Thats unforgivable. My family agreed.

    That lack of transparency is gonna cost Apple dearly. I heard family members considering Android (and Ive never heard any of them say this before). Perhaps Apple doesnt understand the level of anger here.

    Apple needs to get some comms out there ASAP or face even more backlash. Its also not transparent that you cant even see easily how many cycles your battery has had. Why hide this info in a private API (it used to be public but they changed it... wonder why!)

    It may well have been a solid technical fix but the way they went about it just reeks.

    At this point, Ive also held off updating my iPhone 7 to 11.2. Not sure I will either. At this point, they have lost my trust. And to be honest, over the years that was worth a lot in $ terms to them. So I hope they find a way to regain it.
    Apple did inform people in the release notes of iOS 10.2.1. You know, those notes meant to be read that people who have no idea what is in their tech never read? Anyway, I hope your family members do change to Android. Good luck to them on their path of self-inflicted problems
    Reposing this from the Korea thread.

    Here's the statement from the release notes:  "It also improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone."

    How in the world would any reasonable user infer the software is looking for a battery that cannot supply proper voltage and then cutting processing power by up to 60% out of that statement?  That statement could just as easily mean that the software cuts back on background app activity, slightly dims the display, reduces wi-fi & Bluetooth transmit power, or any number of other possibilities during peak workloads to ensure the full processing power of the phone is available to the active application.  Nowhere does it mention throttling or battery issues.  It could just as easily have been unexpected shutdowns due to excessive processor temperatures during high workloads.

    Apple gave a very vague statement that revealed nothing about the underlying identified issue even to users who read the release notes.  It would have been much different if they would have stated they were throttling CPU power in response to inadequate battery output.  That would have put the owners on notice it was a hardware problem that could be eligible for a warranty repair or replacement.
    edited December 2017 muthuk_vanalingamlarryar2d2
  • Reply 22 of 108
    Maxter said:
    Planned obsolescence should be illegal everywhere!
    How would you enforce it, if you wanna make it illegal?
    Besides, isn't it the case that deceptive business practices are illegal?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,928member
    bshank said:
    lewchenko said:
    I think this could be a turning point for Apple in terms of them losing "trust and integrity" with the general population.

    At a family Christmas visit, where most people have iPhones, this was surpisingly a hot topic - with non techy people.

    And the consensus was that apple played a devious card by not telling them their phone battery was compromised, and thus slowing down the phone. People were angry that they probably upgraded from their 6 recently due it being slow as a snail when they could have just got a new battery. Even worse that you can go to an Apple store and they will test the battery and say its fine even though iOS is slowing down your CPU due to the battery. Thats unforgivable. My family agreed.

    That lack of transparency is gonna cost Apple dearly. I heard family members considering Android (and Ive never heard any of them say this before). Perhaps Apple doesnt understand the level of anger here.

    Apple needs to get some comms out there ASAP or face even more backlash. Its also not transparent that you cant even see easily how many cycles your battery has had. Why hide this info in a private API (it used to be public but they changed it... wonder why!)

    It may well have been a solid technical fix but the way they went about it just reeks.

    At this point, Ive also held off updating my iPhone 7 to 11.2. Not sure I will either. At this point, they have lost my trust. And to be honest, over the years that was worth a lot in $ terms to them. So I hope they find a way to regain it.
    Apple did inform people in the release notes of iOS 10.2.1. You know, those notes meant to be read that people who have no idea what is in their tech never read? 
    I don't think so unless there's something in there I missed reading which is certainly possible. I don't any mentioning of "throttling" or even a hint about doing it. 

    "With iOS 10.2.1, Apple made improvements to reduce occurrences of unexpected shutdowns that a small number of users were experiencing with their iPhone. iOS 10.2.1 already has over 50% of active iOS devices upgraded and the diagnostic data we've received from upgraders shows that for this small percentage of users experiencing the issue, we're seeing a more than 80% reduction in iPhone 6s and over 70% reduction on iPhone 6 of devices unexpectedly shutting down. 


    We also added the ability for the phone to restart without needing to connect to power, if a user still encounters an unexpected shutdown. It is important to note that these unexpected shutdowns are not a safety issue, but we understand it can be an inconvenience and wanted to fix the issue as quickly as possible. If a customer has any issues with their device they can contact AppleCare."
    edited December 2017 78Banditmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 24 of 108
    “...a maximum prison sentence of two years, a fine of up to 300,000 euros, and 5 percent of the company's profits.”

    Nice scam if you can get it. Screw the Socialists in the EU.
    bshankwatto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 108
    So, basically, if I'm too stupid a yokel to have the battery replaced when necessary, Apple is liable for that? The only thing they could have done differently is make it clear with whom the problem lies and suggest they get a battery service to restore an optimal experience with their older phone.
    bshankwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 108
    Lithium ion batteries inevitably degrade over time and recharging. If that's planned obsolescence, then someone should sue Michelin in France for manufacturing tires that wear out. That said... while I have no issue with Apple developing this software fix to deal with a degraded battery, it's inexcusable, inexplicable--and just plain stupid from a PR standpoint--to keep that fix a secret until it's discovered outside the company. So Apple has only itself to blame for the flood of lawsuits and bad press that will continue until this latest "Apple is trying to screw you" furor dies down, as it always does. Note to Tim Cook: there is no company the mainstream tech press loves to hate more than Apple, so stop providing fodder for their headlines. This kind of secrecy never ends well for Apple. 

    I do wonder why this battery issue seems to have begun with the 6 series of phones, and whether bigger screens, more powerful computing, etc., have something to do with it. I have seen the shutdown issue on a friend's iPhone 6, and it's really problematic--the phone, on a practical basis, would essentially be unusable were it not for this fix. 
    jony0
  • Reply 27 of 108
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,164member
    Maxter said:
    Planned obsolescence should be illegal everywhere!
    How does one prove planned obsolescence? Apple has already explained why they do this. Now you prove they did this intentionally to force people to buy new phones. Go ahead, prove it in a court of law. These lawsuits are nothing more than lawyers trying to make a quick buck. It’s also why Apple and other companies have really big legal departments. When you have something there’s always someone who wants to take it away from you.
    bshankwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 28 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,928member
    lkrupp said:
    Maxter said:
    Planned obsolescence should be illegal everywhere!
    How does one prove planned obsolescence? Apple has already explained why they do this. Now you prove they did this intentionally to force people to buy new phones. Go ahead, prove it in a court of law. 
    Will this be "beyond a reasonable doubt" or what? I don't know what the standard of proof in FRANCE is. I'd wager someone here does tho. 

    EDIT: Yes, "beyond a reasonable doubt". Page 10
    http://www.justice.gouv.fr/art_pix/french_legal_system.pdf
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 29 of 108
    I personally know people who got rid of their 6 due to slowness and battery issues. When they went to the Applestore they were NOT told it may be a battery problem at all which could be resolved by a battery change. Instead (in my wifes case) she was talked into an upgrade as they made her a cash offer for her 6. Made it so easy.

    They upgraded (in my wife's case to a 7)

    She now feels duped.

    Cant blame her really.

    Knowing what we know now, chances are we would have pushed them to reveal how many times the battery had been cycled and whether or not the phone was being deliberately slowed down by iOS. At that point she could have considered a new battery instead.

    At present she also wont upgrade her 7 to iOS 11.... lack of trust now!
    ZooMigomuthuk_vanalingamlarrya
  • Reply 30 of 108
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,767member
    lewchenko said:
    I think this could be a turning point for Apple in terms of them losing "trust and integrity" with the general population.

    At a family Christmas visit, where most people have iPhones, this was surpisingly a hot topic - with non techy people.

    And the consensus was that apple played a devious card by not telling them their phone battery was compromised, and thus slowing down the phone. People were angry that they probably upgraded from their 6 recently due it being slow as a snail when they could have just got a new battery. Even worse that you can go to an Apple store and they will test the battery and say its fine even though iOS is slowing down your CPU due to the battery. Thats unforgivable. My family agreed.

    That lack of transparency is gonna cost Apple dearly. I heard family members considering Android (and Ive never heard any of them say this before). Perhaps Apple doesnt understand the level of anger here.

    Apple needs to get some comms out there ASAP or face even more backlash. Its also not transparent that you cant even see easily how many cycles your battery has had. Why hide this info in a private API (it used to be public but they changed it... wonder why!)

    It may well have been a solid technical fix but the way they went about it just reeks.

    At this point, Ive also held off updating my iPhone 7 to 11.2. Not sure I will either. At this point, they have lost my trust. And to be honest, over the years that was worth a lot in $ terms to them. So I hope they find a way to regain it.
    Yep .  This is a "used car salesman move" Upon Apples part.

    We will only know the Truth if Cook is called to testify in Front of congress.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 108
    Can people with the slowdown issue test this?.....What is the phone response like with the phone plugged in? It is still sluggish? I think that would be a problem for Apple if it is still sluggish as the battery limitation is bypassed. I typically leave my phone plugged in at work.

    I am bothered that they did this to iPhone 7 which is only 1 year old. I moved from my 7 to X, but will use the 7 for Dash Cam (replacing my 5). It will be plugged in always also when I'm driving, so that doesn't really matter....but I used to upgrade every 2 years and this is the first time I did it the next year.
  • Reply 32 of 108
    So, basically, if I'm too cheap to have the battery replaced when necessary, Apple is liable for that? The only thing they could have done differently is make it clear with whom the problem lies and suggest they get a battery service to continue an optimal experience with their older phone. On the other hand, the iPhone 7 is about 15 months old at most, so I'd personally like to see some sort of prorated replacement cost for batteries that have failed so quickly. My 6 Plus thinks it's doing fine, so maybe I'm just not too hard on it. Oh, and I always use Apple chargers or my Mac's USB port. I'm sure certain non-Apple chargers might be an issue, but that falls into the ID10T category as well. If it's cheap enough it's gotta be good, right?
    bshankwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 108
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,767member
    asdasd said:
    Who would they jail?
    If Cook knew then it will be him.  
    But the important thing is that he will look great in that orange jump suit because of the Apple Watch exercise tracking.
  • Reply 34 of 108
    k2kw said:
    asdasd said:
    Who would they jail?
    If Cook knew then it will be him.  
    But the important thing is that he will look great in that orange jump suit because of the Apple Watch exercise tracking.
    I heard on the news this morning, that he got a 46% raise.
  • Reply 35 of 108
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    Can people with the slowdown issue test this?.....What is the phone response like with the phone plugged in? It is still sluggish? I think that would be a problem for Apple if it is still sluggish as the battery limitation is bypassed. I typically leave my phone plugged in at work.

    I am bothered that they did this to iPhone 7 which is only 1 year old. I moved from my 7 to X, but will use the 7 for Dash Cam (replacing my 5). It will be plugged in always also when I'm driving, so that doesn't really matter....but I used to upgrade every 2 years and this is the first time I did it the next year.
    If it happens on the 7, it’s that you charged your phone to death. The ironic thing here is that even throttled, the single threaded performance is still higher than on android phones. All they have to do is show how similarly charged android phones without the fix perform and then basically they’ve demonstrated their point

    they should have communicated this point earlier maybe but a battery health monitor will have to be front and Center from now on since people seemingly expect magic from Apple / fully charge theiir phone 500 times in a  year without any consequence.

    i barely charge my phone half a full cycle every day btw and îve got a 2.5 year old 6s
    bshankwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 36 of 108
    Apple is just like a regular human being; they sometimes do ridiculously stupid things. Battery-gate is one of them, deleting wholesale the iTunes App Store from the Mac is another and there are more examples. The FCP 7 to X transition comes to mind. I sometimes wonder whether they harbour a fifth column working diligently against them. In my mind Apple deserves a good bollocking for its piss poor communication with the battery thing, but not for the technical measures they put in place to keep iPhones with degraded batteries functioning.
  • Reply 37 of 108
    ...
    edited December 2017
  • Reply 38 of 108
    ... but prosecutors must first determine whether the complaint is legitimate before letting tit proceed in court.

    Well, English isn't my first language, and legal vernacular really isn't in my professional toolbox... but I do suspect there is a typo there, somewhere.
    macpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 39 of 108
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 20,928member
    k2kw said:
    asdasd said:
    Who would they jail?
    If Cook knew then it will be him.  
    But the important thing is that he will look great in that orange jump suit because of the Apple Watch exercise tracking.
    When they had a similar criminal situation in Italy it was the had of Apple Italian operations threatened with jail-time. Also of note Epson is already under investigation under the same law, accused of planned printer obsolescence 
    edited December 2017 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 40 of 108
    foggyhill said:
    Can people with the slowdown issue test this?.....What is the phone response like with the phone plugged in? It is still sluggish? I think that would be a problem for Apple if it is still sluggish as the battery limitation is bypassed. I typically leave my phone plugged in at work.

    I am bothered that they did this to iPhone 7 which is only 1 year old. I moved from my 7 to X, but will use the 7 for Dash Cam (replacing my 5). It will be plugged in always also when I'm driving, so that doesn't really matter....but I used to upgrade every 2 years and this is the first time I did it the next year.
    If it happens on the 7, it’s that you charged your phone to death. The ironic thing here is that even throttled, the single threaded performance is still higher than on android phones. All they have to do is show how similarly charged android phones without the fix perform and then basically they’ve demonstrated their point

    they should have communicated this point earlier maybe but a battery health monitor will have to be front and Center from now on since people seemingly expect magic from Apple / fully charge theiir phone 500 times in a  year without any consequence.

    i barely charge my phone half a full cycle every day btw and îve got a 2.5 year old 6s
    I never had battery issues (except swelling on my 6, which was a known issue). It is best to Lithium Ion charged, but the limit is what you are doing 50%. It is a bad idea to let it drain all the way and then recharge. That kill the battery. Keeping it charged does not (it has a cut off anyways).
     
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