Editorial: The super exciting failure of CES 2018

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  • Reply 41 of 58
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    gatorguy said:
    I for one am pretty interested in the next gen TCL 6-series Roku sets announced at CES. I'm pretty certain those won't be vaporware, and hopefully another biggest punch for the dollar as my current P-series that some publications tagged as best HDTV of the year. Amazing value and great picture for a quarter of the price of OLED.  

    ...And Samsung revealing an actual microLED TV "wall" at CES? Had no idea it was even possible yet. Samsung is obviously a lot further along with the tech than I realized.

    As for "smart" speakers there's going to be no shortage of those from the traditional audio companies including some of the best ones:  Altec Lansing, Anker Innovations, Bang & Olufsen, Braven, iHome, JBL, Jensen, LG, Klipsch, Knit Audio, Memorex, RIVA Audio and SōLIS are all licensing Google Assistant and/or Amazon's Alexa for theri 2018 lines.

    I'll be looking for aggressive competitive pricing on great sound from top-tier speaker manufacturers with the bonus of broadly supported smart home integration. I wouldn't argue a bit with replacing some of my speaker gear with better sound at lower cost. Maybe it's a man thing tho since the wife seems happy enough with music from a Home Mini while in the bath. I'm a bit pickier.
    But all of that doesn’t need a trade show.  Especially the speakers.  I cant imagine getting a good demo among the noisy throngs there.  Unless each booth has a sound room setup where individuals (just regular folk comparison shopping) can get time to do an evaluation.  So, point remains valid; CES has no significant raison d'être.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 58
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 3,093moderator
    entropys said:
    Back in the day Jobs would launch an exciting new product around this time which would suck all the oxygen out of CES. Good times.

    Nowadays of course there is none of that, and poor old Siri has become an also ran with only google assistant a chance at competing with a ubiquitous Alexa. It doesn’t matter if they have flaws. They are becoming defaults for the internet of things, with the irony that Siri was first.  I don’t now how it can catch up now. I don’t know what went wrong, I suspect it is an alignment of a supply chain guru’s priorities and putting a hardware designer in charge of software. And shafting Forstall.
    It takes a long time to do some of these things well.  Self-driving cars is an example.  It might be two or three more turns of Moore’s law (about six more years) before the processing power required for basically flawless execution comes to market, when even the regulators will realize that more lives can be saved versus roads filled with only human drivers (already the case).  That day will come, but it’s been a long time for someone in the 1970s who might have envisioned such a future.

    Same for Watson-like machine-learning medical diagnostics, tricorders, etc.  These things were envisioned long before the processing power was available to realize them.  DNA Sequencing.  Took a decade if I recall, to initially sequence human DNA.  Now the same task can be done in days. 

    And so what is the true vision of a Siri or Google voice assistant?  It’s conversational interaction with a machine-based system that can interpret any request and tap the world’s knowledge bases to provide answers.  Today’s voice assistants are merely vertical silos of information processing, with only the most minimal beginning to the capability to construct a human-like conversation.  If that’s Apple’s vision, and ultimately it likely is, then Apple is driving toward that by laying the foundational pieces, of which machine learning is a major component.  That’s going into Apple devices already, just being used for other purposes, like object recognition, spatial mapping and overlay, etc.  A few more turns of Moore’s law might be what Apple is necessarily waiting for.  
    edited January 2018 fastasleepjony0cornchipbaconstangtmay
  • Reply 43 of 58
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,971member
    VRing said:
    I agree, just focus on what's relevant. There are lots of interesting products buried in the various press releases.

    For example, this $399 Lenovo Thunderbolt 3 eGPU dock with a GTX 1050:

    [image removed]

     It's a bit on the pricey side, but seems to be relatively discrete. Potentially a good option to use with a 13" MacBook Pro.
    A vastly more expensive solution, but may be of interest:

    https://youtu.be/mBctxfMjXSQ
    Man, some of these boxes are the size of a small PC tower. Curious to see if someone actually builds a streamlined, affordable, quality box. Seems like a lot of wasted space and pretty simplistic cooling. 
    With the ones we've tried, its got less to do about the cooling, and more to do with the pretty massive power supply requirements, and the card itself. 

    My favorite is the Mantiz MZ-02, and I've tried about all of the enclosures.
    That one looks really nice, aesthetically. Still though, doesn't look like an efficient use of space, with large areas unused. Maybe I'm unfamiliar with how big some cards get. 

    I'm keeping an eye on this space as I think I've decided my ideal setup when I finally upgrade from my now-ancient 2011 MBP and 30" ACDs at home and office is a new MBP with an eGPU (and eventually new Apple display) at both locations. I think I had pictured these things ending up being more compact, but it looks more like a big box I have to accommodate on the floor in most cases. 
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 44 of 58
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,767member
    I remember when those shows were genuinely interesting.... That's a long long time ago at the dawn of the internet.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 58
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,971member
    asdasd said:
    entropys said:
    Back in the day Jobs would launch an exciting new product around this time which would suck all the oxygen out of CES. Good times.

    Nowadays of course there is none of that, and poor old Siri has become an also ran with only google assistant a chance at competing with a ubiquitous Alexa. It doesn’t matter if they have flaws. They are becoming defaults for the internet of things, with the irony that Siri was first.  I don’t now how it can catch up now. I don’t know what went wrong, I suspect it is an alignment of a supply chain guru’s priorities and putting a hardware designer in charge of software. And shafting Forstall.
    I don’t think you can blame Ive. Personally I didn’t think Siri is that bad and it could work for home automation. I just don’t know why they haven’t pursued it. 
    They have, and are:
    http://www.patentlyapple.com/patently-apple/2017/07/apple-patent-filing-in-australia-delves-into-all-aspects-of-siri-in-relation-to-home-automation.html
    cornchip
  • Reply 46 of 58
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 2,971member
    entropys said:
    Back in the day Jobs would launch an exciting new product around this time which would suck all the oxygen out of CES. Good times.

    Nowadays of course there is none of that, and poor old Siri has become an also ran with only google assistant a chance at competing with a ubiquitous Alexa. It doesn’t matter if they have flaws. They are becoming defaults for the internet of things, with the irony that Siri was first.  I don’t now how it can catch up now. I don’t know what went wrong, I suspect it is an alignment of a supply chain guru’s priorities and putting a hardware designer in charge of software. And shafting Forstall.
    And so what is the true vision of a Siri or Google voice assistant?  It’s conversational interaction with a machine-based system that can interpret any request and tap the world’s knowledge bases to provide answers.  Today’s voice assistants are merely vertical silos of information processing, with only the most minimal beginning to the capability to construct a human-like conversation.  If that’s Apple’s vision, and ultimately it likely is, then Apple is driving toward that by laying the foundational pieces, of which machine learning is a major component.  That’s going into Apple devices already, just being used for other purposes, like object recognition, spatial mapping and overlay, etc.  A few more turns of Moore’s law might be what Apple is necessarily waiting for.  

    Exactly. People are impatient, and want things to work the way they envision they should *right now*. Apple plays the long game and sees an end goal and how to work towards that goal, while spoon-feeding users the seemingly minor achievements along the way. As a result, people say things like "Apple doesn't innovate" and "I stopped using Siri years ago because it was stupid and Apple doesn't improve it" while being completely oblivious to the advances they have made, and where things are likely to be headed in the not so distant future. Or, they complain because they're using it incorrectly and don't take the time to learn how to help Siri understand what you want it to do, or what it's actually capable of at this point.

    ML will be fundamental, for sure. Five of the eight articles on Apple's Machine Learning blog are from the Siri Team already:

    https://machinelearning.apple.com

    On a side note, Siri fell under Federighi's purview this past fall (away from Cue's), so one might see that as an indication that deeper integration in the operating systems is part of that.

    jony0cornchippropodwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 58
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,756member
    ignomini said:
    Sadly, CES looks more and more like proof we have run out of original ideas. The electronics revolution has slowed to a crawl waiting for those forever nuclear batteries they promised us in the 1950s. And ultimately, electronics are a poor substitute for living your life. We're in a funk, and need something wholly new, not just smaller and harder to read.

    Entropys - Jobs was one of the truly rare breed who's vision animated whole areas of technological potential. Apple as a company has had a frustrating habit of proffering, then abandoning good ideas. If you ask me, Siri is following the usual pattern at Apple. What concerns me is are there any actually new ideas coming behind? And I don't mean silly things like facial recognition, or animating yourself using a turd emoji.

    My father was an early adopter with Sony. We had 1/2" reel to reel home video in the 1960s, but Sony ran out of steam after the Walkman. I've been an early adopter with Apple, but Apple ran out of steam after the iPhone. If it's important enough to you, substitute the watch for the phone. The outcome is still going to be the same. Once again, until we move beyond electronics as panacea, folks better get used to ever smaller "innovations." Making ever bigger TVs is small stuff. Internet connected refrigerators...
    Self Driving cars are the only thing that I see on the horizon that I find exiting.  I hope it will be here by the time I reach retirement age in 10 years ( or less). I saw a video on YouTube from theVerge about Lyft's self driving in Vegas.  Progess is happening.
    edited January 2018
  • Reply 48 of 58
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,756member

    entropys said:
    Back in the day Jobs would launch an exciting new product around this time which would suck all the oxygen out of CES. Good times.

    Nowadays of course there is none of that, and poor old Siri has become an also ran with only google assistant a chance at competing with a ubiquitous Alexa. It doesn’t matter if they have flaws. They are becoming defaults for the internet of things, with the irony that Siri was first.  I don’t now how it can catch up now. I don’t know what went wrong, I suspect it is an alignment of a supply chain guru’s priorities and putting a hardware designer in charge of software. And shafting Forstall.
    Yep, 
    1.  I think that for the longest time Siri has had just the minimal amount invested in it because Cook didn't see a way to make a profit off of it.

    2.  What ever happened to the Maps center in India that was announced a few years back?

    3. Sacking Forstall hurt Apple-Maps was not anywhere as bad as the Throttling Conspiracy.
    Who was responsible for Apple's greatest loss of Public Trust?  Did Cook know that this had been implemented?   Who will be fired for this.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 49 of 58
    k2kwk2kw Posts: 1,756member
    gatorguy said:
    mystigo said:
    gatorguy said:
    ...
    ...And Samsung revealing an actual microLED TV "wall" at CES? Had no idea it was even possible yet. Samsung is obviously a lot further along with the tech than I realized.
    ...
    Sony has been rolling theirs out of the warehouse since 2012. microLED is the future, but likely one in which I will have been long dead at this pace.

    https://www.ledinside.com/outlook/2016/7/sony_and_apple_micro_led_display_market_strategy

    Thanks! Somehow I had gotten the impression Apple was in the lead here and would be the first to bring a real microLED product to the market.  :/

    One of the cases where I failed to take my own advice and read other sources too for microLED news.
    I doubt Apple is putting much direct research into microLED as opposed to supporting suppliers.  
    Don't surprised when Samsung turns out the best in this technology.   Apple will just pass on a 50 % markup when Apple uses it in their phones.
  • Reply 50 of 58

    This is the first article by DED that I feel isn't really necessary. He usually takes down stuff with nice analyses but this just seemed like a rant, probably because there is nothing much to say anyway besides "CES is irrelevant".

    I think it was mean-spirited to call the bloggers/ journos "low-paid". That is a low-blow.

    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 51 of 58
    airnerdairnerd Posts: 664member
    All the hate for CES just tells me that some people have no idea what trade shows are about.  I assume they are the same people that wonder why concept cars revealed at auto shows can't be purchased at the local dealership.  

    The largest benefit of shows like CES is networking, not trying to move product.  
    gatorguyGG1muthuk_vanalingambaconstangbeowulfschmidt
  • Reply 52 of 58
    airnerdairnerd Posts: 664member
    drewys808 said:
    “That's why big-headline companies hiring low-paid writers see CES as a goldmine of clickbait--perpetuating its existence and inducing the press to flock to a city replete with little more than flashing lights and concealed guns, despite the fact that more than 540 people were recently shot there by rich white man bored with life.”

    I’ve read quite a few thoughtful and interesting editorials on this board for many years... and this is NOT one of them.

    This article just seemed self-indulgent, hateful and pointless.

    ...and what the fck is with the attack on flashing lights and gun rights?!  For fcks sake. 

    Sounds to me like the writer either wasn't invited or wasn't allowed to attend.  Reads like sour grapes.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 53 of 58
    CES is basically a series of press releases, delivered in person inside of a very large room.

    Isn't that the definition of a trade show?

    Also, the swipe at freelance writers was unnecessary and inappropriate.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 54 of 58
    Is it simply ironic that the power’s out at CES right now, or did someone pull a Gizmodo and bring a metaphor to life?  :p
  • Reply 55 of 58
    airnerd said:
    All the hate for CES just tells me that some people have no idea what trade shows are about.  I assume they are the same people that wonder why concept cars revealed at auto shows can't be purchased at the local dealership.  

    The largest benefit of shows like CES is networking, not trying to move product.  

    Agreed.  Networking in person is far more effective than cold sending emails nobody will read or hosting a web site nobody will visit.  Trade shows are not about "buy this product", they're about showcasing a vendor's, or manufacturer's, capabilities and direction.
  • Reply 56 of 58
    Personally in my opinion I haven’t seen anything mine blowing come out CES or from any electronics company for years now. I mean it is 2018 and this is as far as we have gotten in advancement of electronics. Just small meaningless updates hardware and software wise. Heck we are still using computers that are in 4 GHz range. I know we use multiple cores in a cpu die, but come on it seems like we be at 1THz by now! Again this is just my personal opinion. Does not mean I am right or wrong. Just wish there was some tech out there that is available to the masses that actually takes my breath away and makes me speechless. That makes me feel like we are really living in the future. Don’t some of you want that same feeling. 
  • Reply 57 of 58
    brakkenbrakken Posts: 681member
    Hahaha! Nice work, Dilger! I’m wondering what will be the final straw with those companies: I hope it’s a recognition they have a lack of style, rather than a lack of financial viability.
  • Reply 58 of 58
    CES is supposed to be a show to show the world the newest technology available to the consumer. I guess this year was kinda a bad year. 
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