FBI forensic expert calls Apple 'evil genius' for strengthening iPhone encryption

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 77
    cincymac said:

    However, if the recipient is not using iMessage, your text will go plain on the internet highway from your phone to your party's.
    That...that is not how SMS works.
    StrangeDaystokyojimufastasleep
  • Reply 62 of 77
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,670moderator
    Encryption is a binary thing.  It’s designed to secure data from unauthorized access.  When offered to consumers, that authorization resides with the consumer, and nobody else.  Any other party having access negates the point of encryption.  And so Apple, tightening encryption to ensure that data is accessed only by authorized parties, is not being a jerk or evil; its simply doing its job to provide what encrtyption promises.  
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 63 of 77
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    This is insanity. Or FUD. 
  • Reply 64 of 77

    bitmod said:

    bigmac2 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    I hope you've got your tin foil hat!

    First the NSA universal backdoor is a myth, yes they have tool they can injecte into phone with physical access.  But there is absolute no way Apple could hide this kind of backdoor without public knowledge and thoroughly describe by white hat hackers. 

    This being said, even if the NSA can tap your phone, there is no interest for them to sale this information to Facebook for selling you Tylenol.  Facebook, Google and other internet giant got other way to find your points of interest from you and relative since you gave them all the infos they need by using free and ads sponsored services like Facebook, google, Gmail, Twitter, etc.

    More, the youtube app was the main culprit in the batterie issue with iOS 11, Apple and Google has issue a report about it, search on the web.

    If you don't want to be track, stop using free stuffs... You are not a Google and a Facebook consumer, for them you are their product they sold to advertiser. 

    Yes a Myth... like Apple unequivocally denying they track location - then turns out they were all along and lied. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they have a back door for security agencies - then turns out they lied about that too.
    Then Apple unequivocally stating that meta data is anonymous - turns out they lied and it's not. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they directly sell your info to 3rd parties - then turns out they take it and sell your info to 3d parties through iAd - playing linguistics games. 
    And on and on... 
    Man, wake up. Pull you head out of your ass and start paying attention. You got shares in the company, great! But that's no reason to live in complete denial. 

    You missed some very MAJOR points in my post... 
    1st - These ads are appearing from conversation in a household with no devices on or being used. As if they were listening to conversation.
    2nd - Try it yourself.
    3rd - You missed the point that we set out to prove the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists wrong. But we have been able to replicate this phenomenon with random products. Not always, but enough for it to be difficult to call a coincidence. 
    Your post is unsourced bullshit. Please remedy. 
  • Reply 65 of 77
    bitmod said:
    cincymac said:
    bitmod said:

    bigmac2 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    I hope you've got your tin foil hat!

    First the NSA universal backdoor is a myth, yes they have tool they can injecte into phone with physical access.  But there is absolute no way Apple could hide this kind of backdoor without public knowledge and thoroughly describe by white hat hackers. 

    This being said, even if the NSA can tap your phone, there is no interest for them to sale this information to Facebook for selling you Tylenol.  Facebook, Google and other internet giant got other way to find your points of interest from you and relative since you gave them all the infos they need by using free and ads sponsored services like Facebook, google, Gmail, Twitter, etc.

    More, the youtube app was the main culprit in the batterie issue with iOS 11, Apple and Google has issue a report about it, search on the web.

    If you don't want to be track, stop using free stuffs... You are not a Google and a Facebook consumer, for them you are their product they sold to advertiser. 

    Yes a Myth... like Apple unequivocally denying they track location - then turns out they were all along and lied. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they have a back door for security agencies - then turns out they lied about that too.
    Then Apple unequivocally stating that meta data is anonymous - turns out they lied and it's not. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they directly sell your info to 3rd parties - then turns out they take it and sell your info to 3d parties through iAd - playing linguistics games. 
    And on and on... 
    Man, wake up. Pull you head out of your ass and start paying attention. You got shares in the company, great! But that's no reason to live in complete denial. 

    You missed some very MAJOR points in my post... 
    1st - These ads are appearing from conversation in a household with no devices on or being used. As if they were listening to conversation.
    2nd - Try it yourself.
    3rd - You missed the point that we set out to prove the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists wrong. But we have been able to replicate this phenomenon with random products. Not always, but enough for it to be difficult to call a coincidence. 
    I wonder if you can elaborate on the "ads" - in which app do you see them? Do you see them in Facebook, Twitter, etc.? I guess you suspect that Apple sells iAds in these apps. Maybe you have other apps that display these ads? If you tell us which app is displaying the ads, people in this forum, including me, can probably do some tests to see if we can replicate your results.

    I don't think you can see the ads in iMessage or Phone app. Am I wrong?
    Yes the ads appear in Facebook - have seen them appear as retargeted ads on websites as well. Facebook has been the most obvious platform. 
    The question is, how did Facebook glean the information from conversations in a room - or text messages in iMessage? 
    We have reproduced the phenomenon with Tylenol, AirBnB - specific location, and Homedepo with a specific item.

    Answer: it doesn’t. Your claims are simply bullshit. iPhones aren’t secretly eavesdropping on you and selling that data stream to google and facebook. It’d be the biggest tech news of the decade if they were. 

    Same for iMessage. 

    Youre just making things up or doing too many drugs. 
  • Reply 66 of 77
    bitmod said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    Nearly every time someone brings up something like this with me, I quickly determine they actively use Facebook/Messenger and/or Gmail/Gtalk for all of their main communications. 

    Anything listening to to your mic is one of those or some other 3rd party malware like Shazam used to do in the background. Apple’s software does not, other than local listening for Hey Siri. 

    I call bullshit on iMessage scraping your communications for ads. Apple doesn’t even run an ad network anymore, you think they’re funneling that info to Google and other display ad networks? Get real. 


    We know that the NSA has the capability of turning on your mic and camera without you knowing at any time - that is only possible if Apple designed the capability.
    No, we don’t know that at all. In fact it’s bullshit and that’s it. 
  • Reply 67 of 77
    eightzero said:
    This is easily handled. The US government simply passes a law requiring the owners of devices that employ encryption to provide the government with their passwords. Enforcement of the law is not Apple's job. 

    Fortunately for those of us more concerned with preventing the government's violation of our civil rights than we are with the ease of said government's access to our private data, the United States Supreme Court has already ruled that such requirements are unconstitutional.
    edited January 12
  • Reply 68 of 77
    blastdoor said:
    I would think that the US federal government would know from first-hand experience (Snowden, OPM breach) that keeping data secure is actually really, really hard. 


    They do know.  They just don't care.  Any voiced concern for the safety of user's data is solely for the purpose of placation.  They aren't at all concerned with whether or not they can keep our data safe, or rather, they're concerned only to the extent that it makes them look bad and endangers their ability to garner even more power.

    They want control, not safety.

  • Reply 69 of 77
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,319member
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

     Apple doesn’t even run an ad network anymore
    Actually they still do, and user data is included in determining what ads will be targeted to you. For now it's only in the App Store and Apple News app AFAIK. So yes Apple does do targeted ads based on your user profile, somewhat of a surprise to some here no doubt, but in fairness it's certainly not a big focus of theirs.

    In case some have forgotten, if you don't want your data used for any Apple ad targeting and wish to opt out (I believe the default setting is opt-in which is telling), there are two settings you may need to change.

    Settings> Location Services> System Services, then slide to "Off" on the "Location-based Apple Ads" toggle.

    The other one is "Limit Ad Tracking"
    You'll find that under Settings> Privacy> Advertising and then move the Limit Ad Tracking toggle to "On" which to some might sound just the opposite of what you want. The phrasing is a bit tricky.

    If you have an Apple TV there's a setting there to be aware of if you want to prevent your profile and your data being used for Apple Ad Tracking
    Settings> General> Privacy and again move the “Limit Ad Tracking” toggle to ”ON.”
    edited January 12 muthuk_vanalingamGG1
  • Reply 70 of 77
    nhtnht Posts: 4,303member
    Out of all the whining in this thread folks missed the important bit:

    "Flatley said that crack time "went from two days to two months" as a result of Apple's changes."

    If you can be cracked in 2 days, effectively you have no encryption.  Anything the FBI can do, cybercriminals can do in around the same time.  The FBI may have nice servers but cyber criminals have access to bot-nets for mining bitcoin and comparable computing resources.

    So he's essentially whining that Apple increased the level of protection to a semi-reasonable level vs a completely useless level.
    edited January 12
  • Reply 71 of 77
    foggyhill said:
    Yup, nothing to see or dangerous in this continuing narrative, nope...

    considering even the god damn nsa can’t keep secrets, i’m Glad no one in government has the safe (sic) keys to my house. 

    Not that i’d  Feel good if they could secure it and spy at will on me; it just makes arguments railing against encryption so very weak.
    Haha, yup
  • Reply 72 of 77
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    Get rid of your phone quick and hide.  The black helicopters will soon be overhead.
  • Reply 73 of 77
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,923member
    Rayz2016 said:
    bigmac2 said:
    bitmod said:
    Yes the ads appear in Facebook - have seen them appear as retargeted ads on websites as well. Facebook has been the most obvious platform. 

    The question is, how did Facebook glean the information from conversations in a room - or text messages in iMessage? 
    We have reproduced the phenomenon with Tylenol, AirBnB - specific location, and Homedepo with a specific item.

    Your story seams pretty shallow, any conversation in a room (Facebook room I suppose since iMessage doesn't have room concept) is within Facebook control.  Beside Apple products and service are not ads subsidies, Apple got absolute no gain to give away their consumer data to competition. 


    No hang on.  I think he may be on to something. 

    I just asked the missus if she’d seen the cat, and straight away, I kid you not – in walks the cat!

    And this part will blow your mind: when I asked where the cat was, there was an iPhone on the coffee table SUPPOSEDLY SWITCHED OFF. 

    Uh huh? Yeah? Mind blown, amIright??
    The NSA added cats to PRISM in ‘09. 
    edited January 12
  • Reply 74 of 77
    Some math for those interested in these things.  Last I looked into this there were 77 possible options to use for each character in an IOS passcode. 26UC, 26LC, + 10  numbers + 15 special ASCII printable characters.  To determine the possibilities you multiply 77 times itself for the number of characters in the passcode.

    According to this article it now takes the FBI 18 seconds per brute force attempt to hack the new Apple IOS.  Frankly, I think FBI's Flatley misspoke as the length of time needed increases exponentially as the number of characters in the passcode increases. I also suspect accuracy of the 18 seconds per attempt quoted.

    6 character passcode = 208,422,380,089 permutations  (77x77x77x77x77x77)
    @ 18 seconds per attempt would take 7,137,752.7 years to try every code. 50% of the time the hack could take half as long or 3,568,876.4 years.
    @ 45 attempts/sec = 8,803.2 years to try every code. 50% of the time the hack could take half as long or 4,401.6 years.

    12 character passcode = 43,439,888,521,963,600,000,000 permutations (77x77x77x77x77x77x77x77x77x77x77x77)
    @ 18 seconds per attempt would take 1,487,667,415,135,740,000 years to try every code. 50% of the time the hack could take half as long or 743,833,707,567,870,000 years.
    @ 45 attempts/sec = 1,834,789,812,000,750 years to try every code. 50% of the time the hack could take half as long or 917,394,906,000,373 years.

    So even without Apple's enhanced security improvement you can thwart the brute force hacks by using a long and complex passcode.  It is possible that the FBI or other highly funded organization could set up multiple hacking stations to run simultaneously.  Apple also gives us the option to erase after 10 failed attempts.

    Long passcodes using special characters with no logical meaning are good insurance against this brute force method of attack.   


    GG1tmay
  • Reply 75 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,766member
    nht said:
    Out of all the whining in this thread folks missed the important bit:

    "Flatley said that crack time "went from two days to two months" as a result of Apple's changes."

    If you can be cracked in 2 days, effectively you have no encryption.  Anything the FBI can do, cybercriminals can do in around the same time.  The FBI may have nice servers but cyber criminals have access to bot-nets for mining bitcoin and comparable computing resources.

    So he's essentially whining that Apple increased the level of protection to a semi-reasonable level vs a completely useless level.
    Well, you generally need to have access to the phone, including most time decapping the chip itself. It's not just a processing that limits getting into these phones.
    It is very expensive and probably only really done if they have no other options.
  • Reply 76 of 77
    One way to look at our phones is that they are an extension of our brains, and the FBI, etc. should just accept the fact that our phones are, or should be, given the same privacy rights as our brains. If you can't get a suspect to confess with his brain, don't expect his "brain extension" to be of any help if he doesn't want it to be. We don't torture suspects to get them to confess (at least in the USA), or use "truth serums" to "hack" their brains. Smart phones are a forensic tool that weren't even available 10 years ago (not counting cruder tracing of older "dumb" phones). Get over it, FBI. Of course, if my daughter was the one raped and murdered I'd want the FBI to do whatever they could to hack the bastard's phone, but not torture him (well, maybe, if truly guilty :'). We're all on the same tight rope, aren't we. 
  • Reply 77 of 77
    bitmod said:
    The point is, you can strengthen encryption as much as you want - but if you design a back door and a key... 
    It only makes it more difficult for those without a key. 
    Apple (and all major tech companies) flat out denied any existence of such a key or door - then it turned out they were lying and had to admit as much when PRISM was exposed. 
    Then they lied about it only being 'Foreign' surveillance. 
    Lied again about the depth of Obama's spying on citizens.
    Remember that terrorists iphone that the FBI couldn't hack - but some mysterious company cracked Apple's uncrackable security in 5 min. 

    Doesn't matter how much encryption Apple implements - they will always design a door with a key. 
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    I usually don’t talk to people on these forums like this, but you are way out there like on another planet out there. You keep quoting the same crap but with nothing to back it up. I have never once had anything like what you described happen on my Apple iOS devices. Even with Facebook or Messenger. Then again I sign out as soon as I am done with Facebook. Sorry to be rude but you need to back on or off your medication. You statement are way to far fetched for me to take seriously. Get help before you become completely paranoid to function. I just don’t know what else to say to help you. Best of luck to you. 
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