FBI forensic expert calls Apple 'evil genius' for strengthening iPhone encryption

Posted:
in iPhone
FBI officials continue their attack on Apple's iPhone encryption, with the latest remarks against the company's moves coming from a senior forensics examiner -- and only one day after similar remarks were made by the FBI director.




At the International Conference on Cyber Security, the FBI's Stephen Flatley called Apple "jerks" and akin to an "evil genius" with moves that the company has made to secure iPhones for users. In the same interview, Flatley lauded penetration company Cellebrite -- known for selling iPhone intrusion tools to law enforcement.

Flatley cited Apple's dramatic increase to hash changes from 10,000 to 10,000,000 which meant that the FBI's password attempt timetable went from 45 tries every second to one every 18 seconds with a brute force attack. Flatley said that crack time "went from two days to two months" as a result of Apple's changes.

Flatley is the New York FBI office's senior forensic examiner. Ostensibly, his talk about about the challenges of proper execution and management of one of the largest forensic labs in the world, and not specifically about Apple's iPhone encryption.

The timing of the remarks collected by Motherboard on Wednesday may not be coincidental. They were made the day after FBI Director Christopher Wray amped up law enforcement's diatribe against smart phone encryption, saying that he believed that secure encryption could still have a back door for law enforcement.

Wray said at the same event that in fiscal year 2017, the FBI was unabel to access the data on 7,775 devices using available tools, like the ones from Cellebrite.

"For many years, we have used encryption to protect our customers' personal data because we believe it's the only way to keep their information safe," Apple has said for almost two years, in the wake of the San Bernardino shooting investigation. "We have even put that data out of our own reach, because we believe the contents of your iPhone are none of our business."
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 77
    foggyhillfoggyhill Posts: 4,725member
    Yup, nothing to see or dangerous in this continuing narrative, nope...

    considering even the god damn nsa can’t keep secrets, i’m Glad no one in government has the safe (sic) keys to my house. 

    Not that i’d  Feel good if they could secure it and spy at will on me; it just makes arguments railing against encryption so very weak.
    edited January 11 holmstockdthedbatmaybigpicsjeffharrisanton zuykovairnerdbaconstangracerhomie3equality72521
  • Reply 2 of 77
    thedbathedba Posts: 443member
    Citizen's rights be damned. We only want to snoop into your private life whenever we see fit. 

    Yep! Good for Apple for standing up to this BS. 
    bigpicsjeffharrisanton zuykovairnerdbaconstangjbdragonracerhomie3equality72521viclauyycwatto_cobra
  • Reply 3 of 77
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 632member
    The way this news is reported by some media totally avoid the elephant in the room. 

    How Apple could find a way to protect their users datas that can be circumvent only by US Government agencies and no other government or private organization?

    Not being a US citizen, I found this admission from the FBI very reassuring for every iOS consumers.
    anton zuykovairnerdjbdragonnetroxScot1watto_cobrauraharajony0
  • Reply 4 of 77
    We need to be aware of the revived attack against encryption. As is appropriate, remind people we know the reality, that backdoors will not just be limited to government access.

    As is obvious, Stephen Flatley surely knows that creating intentionally breakable devices compromises their security altogether. And since he believes secure encryption shouldn’t be on iPhones then he’s also saying that he doesn’t believe we need secure encryption. He’s saying the government is entitled to create an environment for us where it is impossible for us as citizens to even pursue total privacy.
    edited January 11 bigpicsjeffharrisairnerd
  • Reply 5 of 77
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 170member
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    patchythepirate
  • Reply 6 of 77
    eightzeroeightzero Posts: 2,039member
    This is easily handled. The US government simply passes a law requiring the owners of devices that employ encryption to provide the government with their passwords. Enforcement of the law is not Apple's job. 
    viclauyycjony0
  • Reply 7 of 77
    bigpicsbigpics Posts: 1,337member
    eightzero said:
    This is easily handled. The US government simply passes a law requiring the owners of devices that employ encryption to provide the government with their passwords. Enforcement of the law is not Apple's job. 
    "Easily handled" under what circumstances...?

    So much for those pesky fourth and fifth amendments...
    fastasleep
  • Reply 8 of 77
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,863member
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    You must live in a state that hasn't legalized pot if you're still sniffling glue.

    mike1mwhiteuniscapefastasleepking editor the gratesteven n.YoSamCapsFanRayz2016StrangeDaysdsd
  • Reply 9 of 77
    GG1GG1 Posts: 190member
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    What you say is very plausible with Facebook, but iMessage? I doubt it, or like to doubt iMessage is doing this. Do you have proof of this regarding iMessage? or just anecdotal?
    mwhitefastasleepbrisanceviclauyycwatto_cobrajony0
  • Reply 10 of 77
    blastdoorblastdoor Posts: 1,858member
    I would think that the US federal government would know from first-hand experience (Snowden, OPM breach) that keeping data secure is actually really, really hard. 

    While I think it would be great if by just using Apple products I could keep all my data secure, the reality is that I can't -- nobody can. All Apple can do is drive up the cost to spies and hackers who want to steal my data. With enough money and determination, any information can be obtained. 

    And that's really what this is about -- it's not that Apple is making it impossible for the FBI (or NSA or whoever) to obtain needed information, it's just that Apple is making it more difficult. And that means that the FBI et al aren't able to indiscriminately collect whatever information they want -- they really need to consider whether it's worth the cost. That seems like a good thing to me. 
    baconstangplanetary paulwatto_cobraurahara
  • Reply 11 of 77
    Apple just keeps building the capital (user base capital) with their stance...

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 77
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 632member
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    I hope you've got your tin foil hat!

    First the NSA universal backdoor is a myth, yes they have tools they can injecte into phones with physical access.  But there is absolute no way Apple could hide this kind of backdoor without public knowledge and thoroughly describe by white hat hackers. 

    This being said, even if the NSA or Apple can tap your phone, there is no interest for them to sale this information to Facebook for selling you Tylenol.  Facebook, Google and other internet giant got other way to find your points of interest from you and relative since you gave them all the infos they need by using free and ads sponsored services like Facebook, google, Gmail, Twitter, etc.

    More, the youtube app was the main culprit in the batterie issue with iOS 11, Apple and Google has issue a report about it, search the web.

    If you don't want to be track, stop using free stuffs... Keep in mind, you are not a Google and/or Facebook consumer, for them you are their product they sold to advertiser. 

    edited January 11 tmaybaconstangsteven n.equality72521brisanceStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 77
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 170member
    GG1 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    What you say is very plausible with Facebook, but iMessage? I doubt it, or like to doubt iMessage is doing this. Do you have proof of this regarding iMessage? or just anecdotal?
    Try it yourself. Text from iMessage about a location and that you are looking for a place to stay for a vacation in some location... then watch ads for that location start showing up. We've experienced this a few times now.
  • Reply 14 of 77
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,149member
    What would keep me up at nights is not the that government officials are complaining loudly about how difficult Apple is making their devices nearly impossible to crack, it's the deafening silence heard from the government about Android's security.

    You KNOW the folks at Google want to keep it that way, knowing how easy it is to break into those crap phones.
    airnerdmacplusplusequality72521
  • Reply 15 of 77
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,638member
    eightzero said:
    This is easily handled. The US government simply passes a law requiring the owners of devices that employ encryption to provide the government with their passwords. Enforcement of the law is not Apple's job. 
    Or they could make waterboarding legal again. That would be a pretty easy way to obtain the user's passcode. The White House probably has the legal authority to reinstate it, even in the US, with just an executive order. Of course it would be immediately blocked by a federal judge and then go to the supreme court. The US is not immune to becoming a police state.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 16 of 77
    bigmac2bigmac2 Posts: 632member
    bitmod said:
    GG1 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    What you say is very plausible with Facebook, but iMessage? I doubt it, or like to doubt iMessage is doing this. Do you have proof of this regarding iMessage? or just anecdotal?
    Try it yourself. Text from iMessage about a location and that you are looking for a place to stay for a vacation in some location... then watch ads for that location start showing up. We've experienced this a few times now.
    It doesn't work for me, but again, i'm not using social media that can pull my interest from linked friends accounts.
    baconstang
  • Reply 17 of 77
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,149member
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    To think that there are people in real life that think the way you do.  Seriously.  Go get some help.
    edited January 11 macplusplusStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 77
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 170member

    bigmac2 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    I hope you've got your tin foil hat!

    First the NSA universal backdoor is a myth, yes they have tool they can injecte into phone with physical access.  But there is absolute no way Apple could hide this kind of backdoor without public knowledge and thoroughly describe by white hat hackers. 

    This being said, even if the NSA can tap your phone, there is no interest for them to sale this information to Facebook for selling you Tylenol.  Facebook, Google and other internet giant got other way to find your points of interest from you and relative since you gave them all the infos they need by using free and ads sponsored services like Facebook, google, Gmail, Twitter, etc.

    More, the youtube app was the main culprit in the batterie issue with iOS 11, Apple and Google has issue a report about it, search on the web.

    If you don't want to be track, stop using free stuffs... You are not a Google and a Facebook consumer, for them you are their product they sold to advertiser. 

    Yes a Myth... like Apple unequivocally denying they track location - then turns out they were all along and lied. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they have a back door for security agencies - then turns out they lied about that too.
    Then Apple unequivocally stating that meta data is anonymous - turns out they lied and it's not. 
    Then Apple unequivocally denying they directly sell your info to 3rd parties - then turns out they take it and sell your info to 3d parties through iAd - playing linguistics games. 
    And on and on... 
    Man, wake up. Pull you head out of your ass and start paying attention. You got shares in the company, great! But that's no reason to live in complete denial. 

    You missed some very MAJOR points in my post... 
    1st - These ads are appearing from conversation in a household with no devices on or being used. As if they were listening to conversation.
    2nd - Try it yourself.
    3rd - You missed the point that we set out to prove the tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists wrong. But we have been able to replicate this phenomenon with random products. Not always, but enough for it to be difficult to call a coincidence. 
    airnerd
  • Reply 19 of 77
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 170member
    sflocal said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    To think that there are people in real life that think the way you do.  Seriously.  Go get some help.
    Missed the last 9 years of major revelations and headlines huh? Snowden, Wiki-Leaks, Freedom of Information revelations, Court documents? Congress, journalism, Apple's own admittance... missed it all huh? 
    airnerd
  • Reply 20 of 77
    bitmodbitmod Posts: 170member

    bigmac2 said:
    bitmod said:
    GG1 said:
    bitmod said:
    Smoke and mirrors. 
    The FBI may not have keys - but the NSA has a back door to not only snoop but turn your mic and camera on at any time without you knowing. 
    The same backdoor Apple uses to sell your info to advertisers. 

    Don't believe me? try it yourself: Without having any phone or iPad on - start talking about a product: "honey, do we have any Tylenol?" "I think we are out of Tylenol", "Who in town sells Tylenol"... then watch as mysteriously your Facebook ads and cookies throw Tylenol ads at you. 

    The reason battery life is worse in iOS 11 is because our devices are always listening. 

    Try it yourself. We've seen it with 4 random products now - too much to be a coincidence. 
    Also, everything and anything you text to someone is read and sold to advertisers. Text someone you are thinking of taking a vacation to Hawaii and watch as your ads start sending you Airbnb for Hawaii. 

    The crazy thing is, we are furthest thing from conspiracy theorists - and we set out to prove this wrong... yet the results done lie. 

    What you say is very plausible with Facebook, but iMessage? I doubt it, or like to doubt iMessage is doing this. Do you have proof of this regarding iMessage? or just anecdotal?
    Try it yourself. Text from iMessage about a location and that you are looking for a place to stay for a vacation in some location... then watch ads for that location start showing up. We've experienced this a few times now.
    It doesn't work for me, but again, i'm not using social media that can pull my interest from linked friends accounts.
    Give it time. It's not instant. 
    Sometimes it was within a few hours, others a day or 2 later. Pick something random. 
    Trust me, I know it sounds crazy. We didn't believe it at first either, and now we are raising an eyebrow. 
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