StrangeDays said: If you were attempting to diagnose the state of your battery's health, I can't imagine why you wouldn't check the settings screen dedicated to the thing you're trying to diagnose.
Guess you can lead a horse to water, but...
If my phone was feeling slow, why would I go to battery settings?
So you've been reading about this issue since it first occurred. You've been on all the discussions about why an aging battery might force a device to shutdown if not for Apple cleverly throttling the peak performance of the device in order to keep the device running and have informed innumerable times and have been shown screenshots that show that you can see if a battery needs to be serviced it will be located in Settings » Battery, yet you're still asking why you would go into Settings to check battery health.
If you really don't know why you'd do that at this point then there's nothing anyone could say to educate you to make reasonable decisions if you're still in the dark.
mcdave said: Apple are being force to employ false-consultation within their designs and that’s not why we buy Apple.
Apple brought this on themselves via either incompetence or malice. It's the users that end up losing though, aside from the ding to Apple's brand.
Soli said: So you've been reading about this issue since it first occurred. You've been on all the discussions about why an aging battery might force a device to shutdown if not for Apple cleverly throttling the peak performance of the device in order to keep the device running and have informed innumerable times and have been shown screenshots that show that you can see if a battery needs to be serviced it will be located in Settings » Battery, yet you're still asking why you would go into Settings to check battery health.
If you really don't know why you'd do that at this point then there's nothing anyone could say to educate you to make reasonable decisions if you're still in the dark.
My point, is that people are arguing users were notified. I'm asking why (pre this story breaking), a user who was experiencing slowness issues with their phone, would head to Settings -> Battery to see if it needed replacement. Answer.... they wouldn't. Even if they went there and saw that message, they wouldn't have connected it to the slowness. They'd have said, "My phone is feeling slower and slower, I guess it's time for a new phone." I don't think that was accidental.
What is more concerning is the lack of availability from Apple for replacement batteries, I have an otherwise perfectly usable MacBook Pro from 2010, but for the past 2 years it has had a bulged battery. The bulged battery makes it so the trackpad no longer works, and some safety concerns. Brought it into an Apple store 2 years ago to get a replacement but was told they no longer carried replacements for that model. That is planned obsolescence to me. especially considering 8 years later I still can’t buy a MacBook with the equivalent 2TB hard drive. Funny thing is that model still upgrades to the current high sierra OS.
In the last two years, did it once occur to you to get a replacement from somewhere else?
Can we get Admin Mike Wuerthele and everyone else who was here and speaking down to those of us asking for a switch to disable the throttling just over a week ago back to admit they don't know up from down when it comes to what Apple will do? I, and others, mentioned on the 10th that Apple should allow a switch and many of us were told that it was impossible and Apple won't do it. .
1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation. 2) A crash because of a low-voltage condition in the middle of a write can "brick" the device, leading to a DFU reset and restore through iTunes to bring the device back to life.
There won't be a toggle for it. There can't be a toggle for it, because of point two. I get that "we" meaning AI readers, know how to do a DFU -- but does Joe Public?
StrangeDays said: If you were attempting to diagnose the state of your battery's health, I can't imagine why you wouldn't check the settings screen dedicated to the thing you're trying to diagnose.
Guess you can lead a horse to water, but...
If my phone was feeling slow, why would I go to battery settings?
You didn't say that in your other message, you just said you don't regularly go into the battery settings to see if you have a used up battery. I periodically do indeed go into the Battery settings for various reasons, and would certainly notice a warning message about my battery needing replacement.
mcdave said: Apple are being force to employ false-consultation within their designs and that’s not why we buy Apple.
Apple brought this on themselves via either incompetence or malice. It's the users that end up losing though, aside from the ding to Apple's brand.
Fallacy of the false dichotomy -- IRL, neither of your "either" options are true. You're just being myopic. You are one of the reigning armchair-executives, certain Apple is failing left & right and how much better you would run the place -- starting with reverting all Macs back to the golden era you learned them on. It's comical.
Can we get Admin Mike Wuerthele and everyone else who was here and speaking down to those of us asking for a switch to disable the throttling just over a week ago back to admit they don't know up from down when it comes to what Apple will do? I, and others, mentioned on the 10th that Apple should allow a switch and many of us were told that it was impossible and Apple won't do it. .
Hard to predict correctly, as this wasn't typical Apple behavior at all. They were kind of forced into this. But, you're right. Apple is doing all kinds of things they'd never have done in the past these days. The only real question, IMO, is what percentage is incompetence vs malice.
StrangeDays said: You didn't say that in your other message, you just said you don't regularly go into the battery settings to see if you have a used up battery. I periodically do indeed go into the Battery settings for various reasons, and would certainly notice a warning message about my battery needing replacement.
Fair enough. It was kind of a snarky comment on my part, so easily misread or missed context.
StrangeDays said: Fallacy of the false dichotomy -- IRL, neither of your "either" options are true. You're just being myopic. You are one of the reigning armchair-executives, certain Apple is failing left & right and how much better you would run the place -- starting with reverting all Macs back to the golden era you learned them on. It's comical.
What's the other option? It went according to plan? And, I'm not sure what's wrong with wanting to go back to the golden era of top quality and UX being job #1. Should that be what every Apple user wants?
What's the other option? It went according to plan? And, I'm not sure what's wrong with wanting to go back to the golden era of top quality and UX being job #1. Should that be what every Apple user wants?
You have to consider that what you think of as "top quality and UX" is not what most people perceive it to be.
For example, my (now second) iPhone X is the best iPhone I have ever owned, both quality and UX included. All of their lineup is performing extraordinarily well by all known measures. Do you hang out with that matte screen petition dude too much maybe?
And no company with hundreds of millions of devices can possibly anticipate every possible outcome from an engineering change. Implying there was malice on the part of Apple in all this when there's a legitimate reason for the change they made (preventing random shutdowns) is asinine. Clearly, they were going for what they perceived to be the superior customer experience.
Can we get Admin Mike Wuerthele and everyone else who was here and speaking down to those of us asking for a switch to disable the throttling just over a week ago back to admit they don't know up from down when it comes to what Apple will do? I, and others, mentioned on the 10th that Apple should allow a switch and many of us were told that it was impossible and Apple won't do it. .
1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation. 2) A crash because of a low-voltage condition in the middle of a write can "brick" the device, leading to a DFU reset and restore through iTunes to bring the device back to life.
There won't be a toggle for it. There can't be a toggle for it, because of point two. I get that "we" meaning AI readers, know how to do a DFU -- but does Joe Public?
So,wtf are you wanting, someone to kiss your butt for Apple giving you something because you whined like a POS baby.
Ironically this will just demonstrate how idiotic people like you are...
Yes, enabling you to crash, like on Android phones do, getting to live a bit of the Android experience of celebrating mediocrity and not giving a crap about users.
Apple giving you back an option enabling you to take a chance in maiming your system is not something to gloat about.
You'll be one of the first Uber Whiners to join a action class law suite when your phone crashes during an upgrade (something that puts a peak load on the phone, or maybe they've always throttled that since IOS 1 because of the inherent risk of this happening and you will be saved).
Or maybe, if Apple is not currently throttling power usage during upgrades, Apple could should just prevent all upgrade for whiner babies like you cause obviously when the bricking occurs, they won't be able to understand that they are responsible for their own hell.
When thing like that occur, I don't want to hear about you yapping ever again when that occurs. Got that buddy.
No ones goes into that option, they know their phone are slower, but they have literally no idea it has to do with battery.
The release note does not mention in any regards about performance degrade.
One must be reminded we are not talking about AI readers here, but general public.
Does it deserve to be sued? No. But Again you get sued for everything in America.
Yes, this straw man general public that has 700 full cycles within less than 2 years and constantly loads up their phone to peak usage in a way that slow down is significant (despite the fact that mere using the UI and web browsing would not do so) and are constantly whining online...
You really think the whiners are the general public? I seriously doubt that. Drama queens online that complain the most about that do it despite having looked into battery and the likes, they're doing it because they live on drama.
As for Nobody going in that option? What? Good god, my mother goes into those battery, app and storage options when her phones is slow and she's 71.
fastasleep said: And no company with hundreds of millions of devices can possibly anticipate every possible outcome from an engineering change. Implying there was malice on the part of Apple in all this when there's a legitimate reason for the change they made (preventing random shutdowns) is asinine. Clearly, they were going for what they perceived to be the superior customer experience.
If they had properly communicated or notified users via a dialog box, etc. No crystal ball was needed here, so I guess that would be my incompetence option. I lean more towards the malice side, as I'm sure the discussion was had and they decided to keep it quiet... which means they were hoping more people would go for new phones than battery replacements. If not, it was completely stupid (if UX was key) not to clearly notify people so they could easily (and relatively cheaply) get the issue fixed... and heck, even promote it has a huge feature.
Looking at a couple of videos on YouTube of battery replacements on a couple of android phones and an iPhone, I couldn’t believe the difference of the inside of a iPhone and the android phones. One looks like it was designed by engineer and the others look like they have been assembled in somebody’s garage out of a few circuit boards that were lying about. Top to bottom- Samsung, HTC and Apple
Can we get Admin Mike Wuerthele and everyone else who was here and speaking down to those of us asking for a switch to disable the throttling just over a week ago back to admit they don't know up from down when it comes to what Apple will do? I, and others, mentioned on the 10th that Apple should allow a switch and many of us were told that it was impossible and Apple won't do it. .
1) The throttling isn't permanent. It's only in-place during the active low-voltage situation. 2) A crash because of a low-voltage condition in the middle of a write can "brick" the device, leading to a DFU reset and restore through iTunes to bring the device back to life.
There won't be a toggle for it. There can't be a toggle for it, because of point two. I get that "we" meaning AI readers, know how to do a DFU -- but does Joe Public?
1) remains accurate. 2) remains accurate.
Mea culpa on Apple not instituting a toggle -- but that is the only part of that post that is inaccurate. It is still a dumb idea for the reasons I articulated that remain accurate, and will require Joe Public to do DFU resets because the phone shut down on low voltage during a critical write, or swamp the Genius Bars to figure it out.
If you re-read Tim's quote on the matter it's plainly obvious that he doesn't want you to do it either.
StrangeDays said: If you were attempting to diagnose the state of your battery's health, I can't imagine why you wouldn't check the settings screen dedicated to the thing you're trying to diagnose.
Guess you can lead a horse to water, but...
If my phone was feeling slow, why would I go to battery settings?
I periodically do indeed go into the Battery settings for various reasons, and would certainly notice a warning message about my battery needing replacement.
The warning doesn't always show. My iPhone battery went bad and was dropping randomly from over 50% to 1% and shutting off the phone, similar to this but larger drops:
I noticed more throttling happening before this news came about, I didn't suspect it was due to the battery but was going to get it replaced anyway due to the random drops. I used one of the battery apps to verify the cycle count and my battery only had about 25% capacity. The warning message should look like this but I didn't get it:
"Using diagnostics in iOS, we've detected that the battery in your iPhone may need to be replaced. When a battery gets closer to the end of its lifespan, the amount of charge and the ability to provide power reduces. As a result, a battery may need to be charged more and more frequently and your iPhone might experience unexpected shutdowns.
This isn’t a safety issue, it’s just to let you know that your battery may need to be replaced. You can continue to use your iPhone until you have your battery checked. In the meantime, you might notice longer app launch times, lower frame rates while scrolling, and other reductions in performance."
The software update that throttles the device was only issued with 10.2.1 in January 2017:
"iOS 10.2.1 includes bug fixes and improves the security of your iPhone or iPad.
It also improves power management during peak workloads to avoid unexpected shutdowns on iPhone."
so the slowdown has only been in place for about 10 months before the news started about it.
I wouldn't have disabled a feature that prevented a random shut down but that feature didn't work on my phone anyway. What would have been useful is a change to the battery icon. The 3rd party apps saw the poor quality of the battery and showed a message like this:
Apple's diagnostics can't be checking just the quality of the battery but the frequency of the drops. If a device is used very lightly, a bad battery could still last a while but it would be best to just have a sign on the battery icon (warning icon or have the icon permanently in orange) saying the battery health is low and having a wear level indicator in the battery settings would be useful too. This is especially helpful when buying/selling a used phone.
Having the battery replaced only takes about 20 minutes in store so there's no down-time in getting it done. The normal $79 price of replacement is high enough that someone might delay a replacement but $29 is fine and a replacement should last about 4 years so if the wear level is high, get it done while the price is lower.
Comments
If you really don't know why you'd do that at this point then there's nothing anyone could say to educate you to make reasonable decisions if you're still in the dark.
My point, is that people are arguing users were notified. I'm asking why (pre this story breaking), a user who was experiencing slowness issues with their phone, would head to Settings -> Battery to see if it needed replacement. Answer.... they wouldn't. Even if they went there and saw that message, they wouldn't have connected it to the slowness. They'd have said, "My phone is feeling slower and slower, I guess it's time for a new phone." I don't think that was accidental.
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias=aps&field-keywords=macbook+pro+2010+battery
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR8.TRC1.A0.H0.X2010+macbook+pro+battery.TRS0&_nkw=2010+macbook+pro+battery&_sacat=0
If they updated iOS 10 too, that would be a future update, would it not? You're not expecting them to build a time machine are you?
No ones goes into that option, they know their phone are slower, but they have literally no idea it has to do with battery.
The release note does not mention in any regards about performance degrade.
One must be reminded we are not talking about AI readers here, but general public.
Does it deserve to be sued? No. But Again you get sued for everything in America.
Well, here we are.
Hard to predict correctly, as this wasn't typical Apple behavior at all. They were kind of forced into this. But, you're right. Apple is doing all kinds of things they'd never have done in the past these days. The only real question, IMO, is what percentage is incompetence vs malice.
Fair enough. It was kind of a snarky comment on my part, so easily misread or missed context.
What's the other option? It went according to plan?
And, I'm not sure what's wrong with wanting to go back to the golden era of top quality and UX being job #1. Should that be what every Apple user wants?
For example, my (now second) iPhone X is the best iPhone I have ever owned, both quality and UX included. All of their lineup is performing extraordinarily well by all known measures. Do you hang out with that matte screen petition dude too much maybe?
And no company with hundreds of millions of devices can possibly anticipate every possible outcome from an engineering change. Implying there was malice on the part of Apple in all this when there's a legitimate reason for the change they made (preventing random shutdowns) is asinine. Clearly, they were going for what they perceived to be the superior customer experience.
2) remains accurate.
Mea culpa on Apple not instituting a toggle -- but that is the only part of that post that is inaccurate. It is still a dumb idea for the reasons I articulated that remain accurate, and will require Joe Public to do DFU resets because the phone shut down on low voltage during a critical write, or swamp the Genius Bars to figure it out.
If you re-read Tim's quote on the matter it's plainly obvious that he doesn't want you to do it either.
I noticed more throttling happening before this news came about, I didn't suspect it was due to the battery but was going to get it replaced anyway due to the random drops. I used one of the battery apps to verify the cycle count and my battery only had about 25% capacity. The warning message should look like this but I didn't get it:
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT207453
"Using diagnostics in iOS, we've detected that the battery in your iPhone may need to be replaced. When a battery gets closer to the end of its lifespan, the amount of charge and the ability to provide power reduces. As a result, a battery may need to be charged more and more frequently and your iPhone might experience unexpected shutdowns.
This isn’t a safety issue, it’s just to let you know that your battery may need to be replaced. You can continue to use your iPhone until you have your battery checked. In the meantime, you might notice longer app launch times, lower frame rates while scrolling, and other reductions in performance."
The software update that throttles the device was only issued with 10.2.1 in January 2017:https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1893?locale=en_US
so the slowdown has only been in place for about 10 months before the news started about it.
I wouldn't have disabled a feature that prevented a random shut down but that feature didn't work on my phone anyway. What would have been useful is a change to the battery icon. The 3rd party apps saw the poor quality of the battery and showed a message like this:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life-check-runtimes/id1080930585?mt=8
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/battery-life/id1274973053?mt=8
Apple's diagnostics can't be checking just the quality of the battery but the frequency of the drops. If a device is used very lightly, a bad battery could still last a while but it would be best to just have a sign on the battery icon (warning icon or have the icon permanently in orange) saying the battery health is low and having a wear level indicator in the battery settings would be useful too. This is especially helpful when buying/selling a used phone.
Having the battery replaced only takes about 20 minutes in store so there's no down-time in getting it done. The normal $79 price of replacement is high enough that someone might delay a replacement but $29 is fine and a replacement should last about 4 years so if the wear level is high, get it done while the price is lower.