Im a sound engineer, being able to adjust eq is critical, bass travels especially at night, playing the same sound at a lower volume it will still be too bassy, (50hz bass - wavelength is around 20 feet, thats usually into the nextroom or next door) how on earth are apple going to apply one size fits all and expect everyone to be happy with something so subjective as music.
Well congrats on your professional choice, it's a great business to be in, I used to own a recording studio back in the days of 16 track analog tape, what a ride lol. We even produced a number 1 hit in Europe. Those were the days. I have to ask though, do you design advanced hardware or software systems for beam forming aimed at a multi billion dollar market? Other than my previous comment regarding profiles (which I think would be helpful for hearing impaired folks like me) I have quite a bit of confidence in Apple's engineers so I would not worry too much if that's not your area.
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
This is correct! I’m an audiophile and can’t wait to get mine on Friday. Don’t know if mass market feels the same way? For a lot of folks music is just background noise. For me it’s life’s blood.
The HomePod is NOT for the mass market. People don’t get it and continue to compare it to the $50 Echo. Why that is I don't know.
It's absolutely a mass market product. How the hell can you claim this will not be made or sold in mass quantities. Sonos products are mass market and I bet this will trounce their unit sales right away.
Agree. Of course it's meant for a mass market.
LOL, Ok it's a mass market, is that from your latest press release? Mass market for what ... the Apple walled garden? Or are you including the Android users ROFL. In truth the Home Pod will be a bit like the Apple watch, for discerning buyers with Apple gear. It will join the small niche market of Apple hobby items that makes more money than Google, Microsoft and Amazon combined probably. You know, really niche.
A pity this happened, but I’m glad the site took full responsibility and issued removal instructions. That’s how you handle something like this, and being more vigilant going forward.
Im a sound engineer, being able to adjust eq is critical, bass travels especially at night, playing the same sound at a lower volume it will still be too bassy, (50hz bass - wavelength is around 20 feet, thats usually into the nextroom or next door) how on earth are apple going to apply one size fits all and expect everyone to be happy with something so subjective as music.
The point of this is the speaker CAN adjust to the environment, that's the whole point of this speaker, man.
It's doubtful you could do it better than this computer always sampling the sound and knowing what sound it sent out and adjusting the drivers on the speakers in real time.
You can send whatever sound you want to the speaker and it will try to be true to whatever crap EQ you sent to it. If you like something bass happy, well hey, it will deliver that.
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
Fair enough. Just keep in mind that many (I would wager: the majority of) people are not buying "smart speakers" mainly for their sound reproduction capabilities. Just look at how popular the Echo Dot and Google Home Mini are. They are buying them for the smart assistant first... and the sound quality second.
I, myself, bought a Google Home primarily for interaction with all of my smart home devices. It is _amazing_ at that. The fact that it also plays music well enough (and has great Spotify integration) is just a bonus.
Apple is targeting the music reproduction crowd... fine. I think think they'll find that sales are going to be sluggish though... as that's not what the majority of the market is looking for when purchasing this type of speaker.
I think a lot of people have forgotten that Apple has already been down this road before: with the iPod Hi-Fi. It debuted 12 years ago... at $350... and was aimed directly at audiophiles... it ultimately was forgotten and then discontinued a year later. It suffered all the same criticisms as Home Pod: limited connectivity, limited compatibility, high price and competitors with better options....
Let's see how the Home Pod fairs....
Good god, it's not the same as the Ipod Hi-FI, you know it's the same yet you just put that out. What they put out then was a decent (not great) speaker with an ipod interface, how on earth is that similar to this. It's not even in the same league in differentiation, effort and engineering.
Just the fact this is an homekit hub, has siri and has tech only seen in sky high priced speakers tell you this thing is NOT THE SAME.
I don't see any fairness here,just really prejudging and doing a false equivalence too to make a beleaguered point.
This seems to assume that every person's ears have a flat frequency response. For people who have lost hearing in certain frequency bands, this approach guarantees that the music will sound poorly. I hope they come out with an app to allow EQ adjustment for people who need or want it.
The speaker doesn't have an equ, but I'm guessing the player does. If you listen through airplay, you can play whatever you want with whatever EQ you want.
This seems to assume that every person's ears have a flat frequency response. For people who have lost hearing in certain frequency bands, this approach guarantees that the music will sound poorly. I hope they come out with an app to allow EQ adjustment for people who need or want it.
Whatever a person’s hearing loss is, they will experience all live sources of music and audio (i.e., “reality”) through that filter. The primary function of an audio playback device is to reproduce sound as faithfully as possible to the original source (or at least to the artist’s intent if the sources are not acoustic).
If a person’s hearing is so affected that even reality “sounds poorly” I would argue that any playback system will be challenged to compensate.
I understand that it would be nice to be able to compensate for some slight hearing loss via custom EQ settings or profiles, but I can’t imagine that the lack of this would result in poor sound from a device that is otherwise found to be of a very high quality.
An idea I had a LONG time ago was a device that sits in the room (like near where you watch TV) that will listen to the audio and, say, a commercial break is too loud will send a signal back to the primary device to adjust. If HomePods are your speakers they should be able to analyze this before it outputs, but potentially be able to use its microphones as a second measure, especially when non-Apple speakers are eventually possible.
Like a compressor? They have been around for ~80 years.
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
This is correct! I’m an audiophile and can’t wait to get mine on Friday. Don’t know if mass market feels the same way? For a lot of folks music is just background noise. For me it’s life’s blood.
If you are an audiophile, I suppose you had experience high end speakers. What are you expecting from a small speaker optimized for 256kbps audio files? Because I'm sure the HomePod is not to the level of high end systems. I even read a review that mentions it may be similar to a Sonos Play:5, which I love, but still behind to many other high end options.
Oh, good grief. Apple spends millions to develop sophisticated hardware and software that will do complex, on-the-fly analyses of the room’s acoustics and subsequently fine tune the player’s output.
Then some goofballs get worked up because they didn’t also add some knobs so the user can override all that and turn everything up to eleven.
If playing music from a device, rather than streaming, would the EQ settings in the playback device be part of the signal sent to the speaker? Just wondering.
I assume that yes, if you're sending music via AirPlay from a device, the EQ settings of that device would carry over. The only way they wouldn't would be if the HomePod was doing something similar to Google's streaming stick and substituting a stream from the cloud in place of what's on the device. That strikes me as unlikely (though I've been known to be wrong from time to all the time).
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
This is correct! I’m an audiophile and can’t wait to get mine on Friday. Don’t know if mass market feels the same way? For a lot of folks music is just background noise. For me it’s life’s blood.
Just another 48 hours and I'll have mine. Can't wait.
One of the features that hasn't been touted much is the HomePod's ability to "normalize" sound volume originating from an Apple TV. I'm sick and tired of having to adjust volume when switching between stations/programming. On Netflix (via Apple TV) I am constantly adjusting volume between 35 and 85. Its a pain in the ass.
One of the features audio purists love is wide dynamic range. I *HATE* it! Neither my taste nor domestic situation are well suited to huge variations in loudness. It ruins my enjoyment when the dialog is twenty decibels below the bumper music while impacts are loud enough to wake the neighbours. The feature on the Apple TV that limits loudness was a buying incentive for me.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work very well. I can't hear much (if any) difference when it's switched on compared to when it's off, using the same material to compare. Either it's like my receiver in that the feature only works with source material encoded in a particular Dolby format, or it's just not very aggressive. Either way, that dampens my enthusiasm for that feature on the HomePod. Maybe it'll work well, I'm just not holding my breath hoping it will.
Speaking of Apple's efforts to control volume fluctuations, I've noticed that the "Sound Check" feature on my iPhone 6 Plus doesn't seem to affect output via Bluetooth. It seemed to work pretty well back when I used the wired earbuds that came with the phone, but now I'm using Solo wireless cans and there are big jumps in level from song to song. Same when streaming to the Pill+. Does anyone know if that's expected behaviour?
Not having an EQ, which is almost always wrong for the room even in a good system, is a feature.
Ah Fogster, you make me giggle! We have some great discussions, but when it comes to the HomePod, you are truly the King of the Fanbois!
Not being able to tailor the output to my taste is a "feature?" Perhaps then I would be better served by a less well-featured device!
I am inclined to believe, despite not yet having heard it, the HomePod can probably do a better job of compensating for room acoustics than I can. Of course, the HomePod is assuming that the spectral balance of the source material is desirable. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the recording exhibits characteristics I don't care for. Like the stuff I ripped from CDs that were mastered in the '80s, when engineers were still accustomed to mastering for vinyl, that wound up having enough high-end sizzle to scorch your eyebrows while also being bass-shy? Or the tracks produced by Herman Thumpster, who thinks the bass is too low if it doesn't rattle the dishes in the cupboard? Being able to dial in a little compensation may actually make the track sound better.
I'm listening to a HomePod for enjoyment, not critical evaluation. There will be times when a little tweaking may be more enjoyable than a pure representation of the source. The absence of that capability is not enough reason to disqualify the HomePod from consideration, and honestly most of the time I wouldn't even bother with EQ anyway, but let's not pretend that not having EQ somehow makes it "better!"
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
Yeah, the parroted whining about Siri is getting stale, but it's one of the ways Apple detractors can make themselves feel better about criticizing a speaker from Apple that blows away the competition on the most important reason people buy speakers. It would be the same as auto reviewers downgrading the latest Corvette Z06 because they don't like the cupholders or navigation controls.
Then there's the Apple "lock in" (Apple Music) complaints. As much as this class of complainers likes to stomp their feet, Apple has an immense customer base and its primary focus is to keep these Apple customers happy and expand the value that they get from being in the Apple ecosystem. Cherry picking a few more customers from Spotify or getting people who are0 happy with a $100 standalone bluetooth speaker moved on to HomePod is not going to make a difference for Apple. Keeping their existing customers happy and serving their base, which is heavily invested in Apple from a financial and loyalty perspective, is what really matters to Apple when it comes to a peripheral product like the HomePod.
Yes, HomePod is absolutely here to serve the needs of existing Apple customers who are already invested in the Apple ecosystem. As one of those customers, I have nothing more to say than - thank you.
Seems to be a lot of known unknowns on this device still. The reviews I've seen are overwhelming positive as to its sound quality. It seems clear that it is walled off as to what content it can play. There's no audio in jack, and while it has BT, you can't connect it as a BT speaker. It seems to support AirPlay, and I am seeing that airplay adapters have been available for some time. I'd sort of be curious if any home theater owners have tried this - add such a audio out to airplay adapter and throw the audio from a TV to HomePod.
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
This is correct! I’m an audiophile and can’t wait to get mine on Friday. Don’t know if mass market feels the same way? For a lot of folks music is just background noise. For me it’s life’s blood.
Just another 48 hours and I'll have mine. Can't wait.
One of the features that hasn't been touted much is the HomePod's ability to "normalize" sound volume originating from an Apple TV. I'm sick and tired of having to adjust volume when switching between stations/programming. On Netflix (via Apple TV) I am constantly adjusting volume between 35 and 85. Its a pain in the ass.
One of the features audio purists love is wide dynamic range. I *HATE* it! Neither my taste nor domestic situation are well suited to huge variations in loudness. It ruins my enjoyment when the dialog is twenty decibels below the bumper music while impacts are loud enough to wake the neighbours. The feature on the Apple TV that limits loudness was a buying incentive for me.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work very well. I can't hear much (if any) difference when it's switched on compared to when it's off, using the same material to compare. Either it's like my receiver in that the feature only works with source material encoded in a particular Dolby format, or it's just not very aggressive. Either way, that dampens my enthusiasm for that feature on the HomePod. Maybe it'll work well, I'm just not holding my breath hoping it will.
Speaking of Apple's efforts to control volume fluctuations, I've noticed that the "Sound Check" feature on my iPhone 6 Plus doesn't seem to affect output via Bluetooth. It seemed to work pretty well back when I used the wired earbuds that came with the phone, but now I'm using Solo wireless cans and there are big jumps in level from song to song. Same when streaming to the Pill+. Does anyone know if that's expected behaviour?
Agree that wide dynamic range is annoying especially when you don’t wish to disturb others. That is why most TVs, home theatre amplifiers, etc. have a setting in their “audio” menu called “Night Mode” or similar. Try it, it works.
Seems to be a lot of known unknowns on this device still. The reviews I've seen are overwhelming positive as to its sound quality. It seems clear that it is walled off as to what content it can play. There's no audio in jack, and while it has BT, you can't connect it as a BT speaker. It seems to support AirPlay, and I am seeing that airplay adapters have been available for some time. I'd sort of be curious if any home theater owners have tried this - add such a audio out to airplay adapter and throw the audio from a TV to HomePod.
Yes it's been tried. The audio ends up slightly out of sync with the video according to reviewers.
Seems to be a lot of known unknowns on this device still. The reviews I've seen are overwhelming positive as to its sound quality. It seems clear that it is walled off as to what content it can play. There's no audio in jack, and while it has BT, you can't connect it as a BT speaker. It seems to support AirPlay, and I am seeing that airplay adapters have been available for some time. I'd sort of be curious if any home theater owners have tried this - add such a audio out to airplay adapter and throw the audio from a TV to HomePod.
Yes it's been tried. The audio ends up slightly out of sync with the video according to reviewers.
Ah. Latency. Good to know. Thanks!
And of course, I see a business case for Apple. Put a optical audio in on a new AirPort?
" ....have given the HomePod good grades for audio quality, but sharply criticized Siri as weak next to the AI assistants in...."
Honestly when I want a speaker the first thing I gauge is sound quality. So, in my book Apple focused on the most important thing a speaker can do, that his deliver sound. Siri will come along and be just fine. And it will lily not invade my privacy or deliver purchases to my door that I didn't really want.
This is correct! I’m an audiophile and can’t wait to get mine on Friday. Don’t know if mass market feels the same way? For a lot of folks music is just background noise. For me it’s life’s blood.
Just another 48 hours and I'll have mine. Can't wait.
One of the features that hasn't been touted much is the HomePod's ability to "normalize" sound volume originating from an Apple TV. I'm sick and tired of having to adjust volume when switching between stations/programming. On Netflix (via Apple TV) I am constantly adjusting volume between 35 and 85. Its a pain in the ass.
One of the features audio purists love is wide dynamic range. I *HATE* it! Neither my taste nor domestic situation are well suited to huge variations in loudness. It ruins my enjoyment when the dialog is twenty decibels below the bumper music while impacts are loud enough to wake the neighbours. The feature on the Apple TV that limits loudness was a buying incentive for me.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work very well. I can't hear much (if any) difference when it's switched on compared to when it's off, using the same material to compare. Either it's like my receiver in that the feature only works with source material encoded in a particular Dolby format, or it's just not very aggressive. Either way, that dampens my enthusiasm for that feature on the HomePod. Maybe it'll work well, I'm just not holding my breath hoping it will.
Speaking of Apple's efforts to control volume fluctuations, I've noticed that the "Sound Check" feature on my iPhone 6 Plus doesn't seem to affect output via Bluetooth. It seemed to work pretty well back when I used the wired earbuds that came with the phone, but now I'm using Solo wireless cans and there are big jumps in level from song to song. Same when streaming to the Pill+. Does anyone know if that's expected behaviour?
Agree that wide dynamic range is annoying especially when you don’t wish to disturb others. That is why most TVs, home theatre amplifiers, etc. have a setting in their “audio” menu called “Night Mode” or similar. Try it, it works.
I have turned on both "Reduce loud sounds" on the Apple TV and "Dynamic Range Control" on my receiver, and most of the time I still need to keep the volume control handy. It's supposed to work with any Dolby encoded content, but maybe it's picky about HOW that content is encoded? I really don't know. Surprisingly, the content that still exhibits the most variation in volume is movies purchased from the iTunes Store. Go figure.
Comments
Well congrats on your professional choice, it's a great business to be in, I used to own a recording studio back in the days of 16 track analog tape, what a ride lol. We even produced a number 1 hit in Europe. Those were the days. I have to ask though, do you design advanced hardware or software systems for beam forming aimed at a multi billion dollar market? Other than my previous comment regarding profiles (which I think would be helpful for hearing impaired folks like me) I have quite a bit of confidence in Apple's engineers so I would not worry too much if that's not your area.
LOL, Ok it's a mass market, is that from your latest press release? Mass market for what ... the Apple walled garden? Or are you including the Android users ROFL. In truth the Home Pod will be a bit like the Apple watch, for discerning buyers with Apple gear. It will join the small niche market of Apple hobby items that makes more money than Google, Microsoft and Amazon combined probably. You know, really niche.
It's doubtful you could do it better than this computer always sampling the sound and knowing what sound it sent out and adjusting the drivers on the speakers in real time.
You can send whatever sound you want to the speaker and it will try to be true to whatever crap EQ you sent to it. If you like something bass happy, well hey, it will deliver that.
Just the fact this is an homekit hub, has siri and has tech only seen in sky high priced speakers tell you this thing is NOT THE SAME.
I don't see any fairness here,just really prejudging and doing a false equivalence too to make a beleaguered point.
If a person’s hearing is so affected that even reality “sounds poorly” I would argue that any playback system will be challenged to compensate.
I understand that it would be nice to be able to compensate for some slight hearing loss via custom EQ settings or profiles, but I can’t imagine that the lack of this would result in poor sound from a device that is otherwise found to be of a very high quality.
If you are an audiophile, I suppose you had experience high end speakers. What are you expecting from a small speaker optimized for 256kbps audio files? Because I'm sure the HomePod is not to the level of high end systems. I even read a review that mentions it may be similar to a Sonos Play:5, which I love, but still behind to many other high end options.
Then some goofballs get worked up because they didn’t also add some knobs so the user can override all that and turn everything up to eleven.
One of the features audio purists love is wide dynamic range. I *HATE* it! Neither my taste nor domestic situation are well suited to huge variations in loudness. It ruins my enjoyment when the dialog is twenty decibels below the bumper music while impacts are loud enough to wake the neighbours. The feature on the Apple TV that limits loudness was a buying incentive for me.
Unfortunately it doesn't seem to work very well. I can't hear much (if any) difference when it's switched on compared to when it's off, using the same material to compare. Either it's like my receiver in that the feature only works with source material encoded in a particular Dolby format, or it's just not very aggressive. Either way, that dampens my enthusiasm for that feature on the HomePod. Maybe it'll work well, I'm just not holding my breath hoping it will.
Speaking of Apple's efforts to control volume fluctuations, I've noticed that the "Sound Check" feature on my iPhone 6 Plus doesn't seem to affect output via Bluetooth. It seemed to work pretty well back when I used the wired earbuds that came with the phone, but now I'm using Solo wireless cans and there are big jumps in level from song to song. Same when streaming to the Pill+. Does anyone know if that's expected behaviour?
Ah Fogster, you make me giggle! We have some great discussions, but when it comes to the HomePod, you are truly the King of the Fanbois!
Not being able to tailor the output to my taste is a "feature?" Perhaps then I would be better served by a less well-featured device!
I am inclined to believe, despite not yet having heard it, the HomePod can probably do a better job of compensating for room acoustics than I can. Of course, the HomePod is assuming that the spectral balance of the source material is desirable. Sometimes it isn't. Sometimes the recording exhibits characteristics I don't care for. Like the stuff I ripped from CDs that were mastered in the '80s, when engineers were still accustomed to mastering for vinyl, that wound up having enough high-end sizzle to scorch your eyebrows while also being bass-shy? Or the tracks produced by Herman Thumpster, who thinks the bass is too low if it doesn't rattle the dishes in the cupboard? Being able to dial in a little compensation may actually make the track sound better.
I'm listening to a HomePod for enjoyment, not critical evaluation. There will be times when a little tweaking may be more enjoyable than a pure representation of the source. The absence of that capability is not enough reason to disqualify the HomePod from consideration, and honestly most of the time I wouldn't even bother with EQ anyway, but let's not pretend that not having EQ somehow makes it "better!"
Then there's the Apple "lock in" (Apple Music) complaints. As much as this class of complainers likes to stomp their feet, Apple has an immense customer base and its primary focus is to keep these Apple customers happy and expand the value that they get from being in the Apple ecosystem. Cherry picking a few more customers from Spotify or getting people who are0 happy with a $100 standalone bluetooth speaker moved on to HomePod is not going to make a difference for Apple. Keeping their existing customers happy and serving their base, which is heavily invested in Apple from a financial and loyalty perspective, is what really matters to Apple when it comes to a peripheral product like the HomePod.
Yes, HomePod is absolutely here to serve the needs of existing Apple customers who are already invested in the Apple ecosystem. As one of those customers, I have nothing more to say than - thank you.
Agree that wide dynamic range is annoying especially when you don’t wish to disturb others. That is why most TVs, home theatre amplifiers, etc. have a setting in their “audio” menu called “Night Mode” or similar. Try it, it works.
And of course, I see a business case for Apple. Put a optical audio in on a new AirPort?