Video: Changes to the MacBook Pro we want Apple to make

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  • Reply 41 of 162
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,040member

    chasm said:
    [...] the touchbar's easy access to emoji, accented characters, Touch ID
    I agree that Touch ID is a welcome feature, but it's not part of the Touch Bar. It's a separate element that just happens to be installed in a way that is cosmetically an extension of the Touch Bar. It would be possible to make a Mac that includes Touch ID without the Touch Bar.

    I'm not what you might describe as "opposed" to the Touch Bar, but I haven't found it particularly useful either. If someone replaced the Touch Bar on my Mac with function keys, it wouldn't make a lick of difference to me. If removing it would either reduce the cost of the machine or allow for some other, more valuable improvement, I wouldn't object.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 42 of 162
    edac2edac2 Posts: 10member
    Join the rest of the hardware world - one you actually helped pioneer - and add a touchscreen display. All of the supposed negatives, like gorilla arm and macOS not optimized for touch, will be resolved sooner once a touch display is added to the MacBook.
    Future-Proof
  • Reply 43 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,340member
    edac2 said:
    All of the supposed negatives, like gorilla arm and macOS not optimized for touch, will be resolved sooner once a touch display is added to the MacBook.
    So you’re magically going to make everyone’s arms capable of doing something they can’t do simply because a piece of hardware that no one wants, needs, and does nothing is added? Go buy an iPad.
  • Reply 44 of 162
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,040member
    edac2 said:
    All of the supposed negatives, like gorilla arm and macOS not optimized for touch, will be resolved sooner once a touch display is added to the MacBook.
    So you’re magically going to make everyone’s arms capable of doing something they can’t do simply because a piece of hardware that no one wants, needs, and does nothing is added? Go buy an iPad.
    I've explained here many times how gorilla arm is easily overcome (and why it's self-contradictory to claim that an iPad with Apple's keyboard is a good solution but a nearly identical configuration -- a laptop -- is not). I don't know how you use your laptop, but the way mine is sitting it is no more effort to swipe the screen than the trackpad.

    As for no one wants or needs touch, I have three responses:

    1. The prevalence of Windows machines with touchscreen suggests otherwise. I understand that you may not need or want it, but it's gotta be obvious by now that others do. Even me, and I'm a traditionalist when it comes to computers. I constantly come across cases for which a touch screen would be a great solution.

    2. Jobs quotes Ford re: faster horse. Even if some people don't recognize the value of a feature before having used it, they may once they see and try it. Like me. I didn't see much use for it until I experienced the benefits of adding touch to mouse and keyboard. Some things were accomplished much quicker, more easily, and more intuitively by simply hitting a button on the screen rather than grabbing the mouse or looking away to hunt for a hotkey.

    3. Earlier in the thread it was argued that the Touch Bar is a natural progression of the Mac because Mac buyers are iOS users first and foremost, and computer users second. If the Touch Bar makes sense, a touch screen makes even more sense.
    Future-Proof
  • Reply 45 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,340member
    The prevalence of Windows machines with touchscreen suggests otherwise.
    I guess people still really want VGA and PS/2 ports, right?  :p
    the benefits of adding touch to mouse and keyboard.
    Don’t get me wrong–I use the keyboard case with my iPad Pro. But not on my lap and rarely on a desk. It’s a more casual and closer experience (I’m typing on it while lying on my side right now), and the angles are all different. I see a laptop–and even desktop–multitouch as a real niche case. 
    If the Touch Bar makes sense, a touch screen makes even more sense.
    Well, yeah. Down THERE. As in, a replacement for the keyboard. 
    tht
  • Reply 46 of 162
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,514member
    commentzilla said:
    I use Blu-Ray/M-Dsic drives with 50GB or 100GB disks for long term for data archiving.
    I would *NOT* be doing this. It's a really good way to lose your data.

    re: DVD drives and USB ports - I'm fine with Apple dropping things (if they can be added, externally or with adapters) if they aren't widely used any longer. DVDs and such just aren't. It is easily added with an external drive, and complicates (including a ton of space) the product design. But, almost no-one is using USB-C, yet. Everyone has to buy adapters and docks, which means it's too early to completely transition. If space permits, they should have some USB-C and A.

    chasm said:
    I realize “Pro” is in the name, but actual creative professionals (aka those who make their primary living with that device) are pretty clearly not the majority of people buying the MBP, as the sales volume (best-selling Mac model) would suggest. As you say, the MBP is really the”MacBook Plus” for most buyers. And yes, lots of people buy the MBP even though it’s far more powerful than their needs would suggest.

    It’s kind of like how people will choose “best” most of the time when offered a thing in “good, better, best” sizes, or maybe they’re trying to future-proof their purchase, I couldn’t say.  
    I agree, but what about a model for the pros, then? Again, this is marketing, pie-chart driven design, not 'build the right things' design.
    macike
  • Reply 47 of 162
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,514member
    lorin schultz said:
    Preferences, I guess. I really like the larger trackpad. It makes small adjustments easier. With a smaller trackpad, a move of a couple millimetres on the pad translates to a wide swing on an on-screen control.
    How have you found its palm rejection? I haven't spent a lot of time on one yet, besides playing in the stores. It seems to (further) impact typing. Maybe it learns or there is some setting, though.

    edac2 said:
    Join the rest of the hardware world - one you actually helped pioneer - and add a touchscreen display. All of the supposed negatives, like gorilla arm and macOS not optimized for touch, will be resolved sooner once a touch display is added to the MacBook.
    I'm not dead set against this, though I don't think it is encouraging good UI habits. My wife seems to somewhat like it on her work Lenovo. I suppose it would increase the cost a bit.

    lorin schultz said:
    I've explained here many times how gorilla arm is easily overcome (and why it's self-contradictory to claim that an iPad with Apple's keyboard is a good solution but a nearly identical configuration -- a laptop -- is not). I don't know how you use your laptop, but the way mine is sitting it is no more effort to swipe the screen than the trackpad.
    ...
    3. Earlier in the thread it was argued that the Touch Bar is a natural progression of the Mac because Mac buyers are iOS users first and foremost, and computer users second. If the Touch Bar makes sense, a touch screen makes even more sense.
    An iPad with a keyboard actually isn't a very good experience. The keyboard helps with text input efficiency, but trying to edit text via the touch-screen is close to torture. Reaching up from the keyboard to hit a button or something isn't too bad, but it isn't as efficient as using the keyboard if the UI is properly implemented. I suppose as somewhat a purist, I fear desktop UI further degrading if people don't properly support both, once the screen option is available.

    re: 3 - I don't think the TouchBar is actually a natural progression. I think it was a horrible UI move.... even worse than a touch-screen.
  • Reply 48 of 162
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,040member
    cgWerks said:
    How have you found its palm rejection?
    I've never thought about it before now, so I guess it must be pretty good!

    cgWerks said:
    trying to edit text via the touch-screen is close to torture.
    Agreed. That's a task for which a mouse or trackpad is a better tool. Similarly, trying to reposition an image with a mouse is a pain, and is easier with touch. Different approaches for different operations. I'm not suggesting a touch screen INSTEAD of keyboard and pointer, but IN ADDITION to them.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 49 of 162
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 2,999member
    If you don’t like the touchbar buy the damn MacBook escape.
  • Reply 50 of 162
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,514member
    cgWerks said:
    How have you found its palm rejection?
    I've never thought about it before now, so I guess it must be pretty good!
    Interesting. I seem to have issues in just the few minutes I play with them in the store. The first time I got to use one, I was excited as I was intending on buying a new MBP, but one of my first impressions (besides wondering if I could get used to the keyboard) was, 'why the heck did they make the trackpad so huge?'

    If you don’t like the touchbar buy the damn MacBook escape.
    It's quite a different system besides the TouchBar. It only has 1 fan, for starters. It's architecturally different as well. It's not an equivalent model, just minus the TouchBar. I had initially considered that until I read more about it.
  • Reply 51 of 162
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 281member
    Personally, I'd like to suggest adding 120Hz refresh rate to the display as well.

    Also, I think is possible to wire flash memories into a RAID 0 configuration, which can double the performance easily.
    edited May 14
  • Reply 52 of 162
    lorin schultzlorin schultz Posts: 2,040member
    If you don’t like the touchbar buy the damn MacBook escape.
    The function key version is not available with a 15" screen.
  • Reply 53 of 162
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,576member
    DuhSesame said:

    Also, I think is possible to wire flash memories into a RAID 0 configuration, which can double the performance easily.
    3.1/2.1 Gbps not doing it for you?
  • Reply 54 of 162
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,576member
    macike said:
    Many MacBook Pro -Users would love to see the DVD/CD drives replaced. We used/burned DVD/CD's for years,and many of our Clients still request them. Don't try to speak for us,because we Stream,subscribe to Apple Music,subscribe to Netflix,and some of us listen to FM/AM along with our Sirius XM subscriptions!  Don't try to paint us as if we're stuck in a Time warp!  Please replace the MagSafe connector,don't do away with the headphone jack,provide Ethernet,and give us USB Ports along with USB-C ports. I don't need my Portable to be Blade-thin,more RAM capacity would be great,and hopefully offer a 17" model for those who want/need a Workstation. The competition offers all of these features,except MagSafe connections.
    Ridiculous. The tiny fraction of people who need it can get an external drive. 
  • Reply 55 of 162
    thttht Posts: 2,795member
    I think Apple needs to differentiate the MacBook Pro from the MacBook and MBP13 FN more. Best way to do that is screen size.

    $1000 MB12, 5W, no choice but Kaby Lake
    $1300 MBP13 FN, 15W 2-core Coffee Lake
    $1800 MBP14 TB, 28W 4-core Coffee Lake
    $2400 MBP16 TB, 45W 6-core Coffee Lake, discrete GPU

    The current 13.3 and 15.4 displays have 2560x1600 and 2880x1800 at 227 and 220 DPI. The 14” and 16” displays should have higher DPI, something like 2880x1800 and 3840x2400, at 243 and 283 DPI. I’m due for a laptop refresh at work, and would like a little bigger display. ;)

    Also would prefer that the MBP13 FN have a wedge shape like the MB12, and have enough cooling for a 15W CPU. This would be a MBA13 successor and the volume seller. There would be no confusion between a MBP14 and it, with clear reasons what customers are getting for another $500.

    There are quite a few people who have to have a mechanical Esc key. Remap the current tilde and single left quote key to an escape key? I think I would prefer that over the Caps lock key. Generally, the FN row has the least used keys on the keyboard. I wouldn’t be surprised if those who don’t like the TB have a lot of overlap with those who don’t use the FN much.

    I’m also the person who thinks Apple should go all the way with the TB and replace the mechanical keyboard with a 13.4” iPad display w/A11 to power it. $3000.

  • Reply 56 of 162
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,514member
    tht said:
    I think Apple needs to differentiate the MacBook Pro from the MacBook and MBP13 FN more. Best way to do that is screen size.
    I disagree, and think this is the same problem with the iPhone lineup. What does screen size have to do with overall cost or where it falls in the casual user to pro range? (Besides a bit difference in component cost.) Screen size should be driven by use-case. Then casual to pro within screen sizes, if necessary, based on features and power.
  • Reply 57 of 162
    macikemacike Posts: 53member
    Future Mac OS software will soon no longer support the use of external DVD/CD drives. It has already been announced. Just like Apple's premature decision to get rid of the Ethernet connections,USB -A  connections,Headphone jacks,Memory Card slots,DVD/CD drive-elimination is and was a mistake. Apple has put Form over function far too often,and it is why they are redesigning the Mac Pro,now.
  • Reply 58 of 162
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,514member
    macike said:
    Future Mac OS software will soon no longer support the use of external DVD/CD drives. It has already been announced.
    What? Where did you hear that?
  • Reply 59 of 162
    tallest skiltallest skil Posts: 43,340member
    macike said:
    Future Mac OS software will soon no longer support the use of external DVD/CD drives. It has already been announced. 
    Sounds like total bullshit. And not just because it hasn’t been announced.
    Just like Apple's premature decision to get rid of the Ethernet connections,USB -A  connections,Headphone jacks,Memory Card slots,DVD/CD drive-elimination is and was a mistake.
    Is total bullshit.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 60 of 162
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 869member
    macike said:
    Future Mac OS software will soon no longer support the use of external DVD/CD drives. It has already been announced. Just like Apple's premature decision to get rid of the Ethernet connections,USB -A  connections,Headphone jacks,Memory Card slots,DVD/CD drive-elimination is and was a mistake. Apple has put Form over function far too often,and it is why they are redesigning the Mac Pro,now.
    They are going to hit issues with various consumer rights legislation in the world if they do that given that list is still in shipping products or by Apple branded accessories.

    Or as Tallest Skill said complete bullshit.
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