MacBook & iPad Pro updates might not make it to WWDC

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  • Reply 41 of 131
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,428member
    nunzy said:
    Apple never releases products until they are fully baked. But when they do, it's worth the wait.
    Baked? Is this a High Sierra joke?
    nunzyking editor the gratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 131
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,428member

    gutengel said:
    If true, this is a huge missed opportunity for Apple. I was planing to buy the new iPad Pro w pencil this month and then the new Apple Watch with Airpods on fall. But getting all new products announcements on fall will me think twice about which devices I will get. It feels less of a punch in your wallet when you get 3+ months between purchases, and I'm sure many people feel the same way...
    A single consumer having second thoughts on how many of the new Apple products they plan to buy in a quarter is hardly a “huge missed opportunity” and more like a “nice problem to have” as Tim likes to say.
    ronnbshankrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 131
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 1,428member
    macxpress said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    If there's nothing significant to update the MacBook Pro to then what should Apple do? Apple should just update the MacBook Pro for the sake of just saying we updated it?
    But there is something to update MacBook Pro's with... the 8th gen of intel processors which are much faster than the 6th and 7th generations. The 8th gen devices were released in October of last year and updated in April of this year! IF it is true that MacBook Pro's won't be updated at WWDC then it would be a wasted opportunity to get these devices to be competitive. Apple used to move quickly when updating Mac devices. We can see with the Mac Mini and others that this desire has gone. They are no longer hungry.
    A generation of Intel chips get released in stages over a year or longer. SOME 8th gen processors are already out. That doesn’t mean the chipsets that would be appropriate for a MBP are out. The hexacores that many think might be the next MBP chip are just now or about to ship. 
    ronnwatto_cobra
  • Reply 44 of 131
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 147member
    That's fine as long as the next version works reliably.
    I've seen many die-hard apple supporters lost their nerves in past two years because of that, and that's not a good sign.  Even I have to considering a Dell Precision as a backup plan...
    edited May 31 gutengel
  • Reply 45 of 131
    macxpress said:
    ljc94512 said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    The last MacBook Pro update was... 12 months ago.
    And IF this story is true we won't be seeing an update until October at the earliest....... This would mean a 16 month refresh cycle! With all their R&D budget I would expect them to be able to introduce a processor update to their devices within a few months of Intel releasing them onto the market. Given that the 8th gen chips started shipping in late 2017 that seems like wishful thinking!
    Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though.  Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.  
    Sorry LJC94512 but that's not true. Quad core performance with 8th Gen was introduced last year and Dell had machines available in November....... 

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3237065/laptop-computers/dell-xps-13-2017-review-intels-8th-gen-cpu-makes-a-great-laptop-even-greater.html

    AND they had a major redesign for the laptop in March and it has been available since then.....

    https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-xps-13-2018/review/

    As I said, Apple is moving like a Dinosaur here. Whether you are supporter of Apple or not, it's hard to justify how long these refresh cycles take when others are moving over 6 months faster!
    Maybe these are off or something, but the 8th Gen CPU really isn't any better in terms of performance. 

    This is what's currently used in the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7700HQ+@+2.80GHz

    Highend CPU in current MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7820HQ+@+2.90GHz&id=2952

    Optional CPU in current MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7920HQ+@+3.10GHz


    The CPU in the Dell you specified is the Intel 8550u CPU (8th gen) benchmark is here:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-8550U+@+1.80GHz

    Benchmarks: 

    7700HQ: 8862
    7820HQ: 9409
    7920HQ: 10230

    8550U: 8325

    These are all Core i7 models.

    You will see the performance of that is below that of the one you think Apple could be using. The updated one does use less watts, but doesn't appear to be faster. 


    My point being...just because its new(er) doesn't mean its better in terms of performance which goes back to my other point of, so you just want Apple to put the newest CPU in for the sake of updating when there may actually be little to no performance increase. I think back to the days of the G4 where Apple would release new Macs with updated G4 CPU's that performed WORSE than the outgoing model in terms of performance in real world testing. Once again, the latest and greatest doesn't always mean its better and just because Dell, HP, etc are using them doesn't mean they're ahead of Apple by any means. 
    I am not talking about the 15 inch versions which are quad core already but the 13 inch versions which is the most popular machine by far. This is what the Dell XPS13 story is all about - comparing apples to apples and not cherry picking chips to suit your story. However to prove you wrong, even with the 7700 which is running at 45W it cannot beat the 8550 running at 15W! Don't believe me then read this:

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3235813/laptop-computers/intel-8th-gen-core-i7-review.html

    Going back to the 13 inch version the 7th Gen MB Pro uses a 2 core chip. All 8th Gen are 4 core, even at the i3 and i5 level I believe. The speed differences as the article point out are very real and very signifiant. The conclusion of this article states "There's only one way to describe our experience with the Core i7-8550U inside the Dell XPS 13: Impressed. No wait, damned impressed would be a better way to couch it."

    My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
    cgWerksmazda 3smuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 46 of 131
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 2,676administrator
    macxpress said:
    ljc94512 said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    The last MacBook Pro update was... 12 months ago.
    And IF this story is true we won't be seeing an update until October at the earliest....... This would mean a 16 month refresh cycle! With all their R&D budget I would expect them to be able to introduce a processor update to their devices within a few months of Intel releasing them onto the market. Given that the 8th gen chips started shipping in late 2017 that seems like wishful thinking!
    Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though.  Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.  
    Sorry LJC94512 but that's not true. Quad core performance with 8th Gen was introduced last year and Dell had machines available in November....... 

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3237065/laptop-computers/dell-xps-13-2017-review-intels-8th-gen-cpu-makes-a-great-laptop-even-greater.html

    AND they had a major redesign for the laptop in March and it has been available since then.....

    https://www.cnet.com/products/dell-xps-13-2018/review/

    As I said, Apple is moving like a Dinosaur here. Whether you are supporter of Apple or not, it's hard to justify how long these refresh cycles take when others are moving over 6 months faster!
    Maybe these are off or something, but the 8th Gen CPU really isn't any better in terms of performance. 

    This is what's currently used in the cheapest 15" MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7700HQ+@+2.80GHz

    Highend CPU in current MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7820HQ+@+2.90GHz&id=2952

    Optional CPU in current MacBook Pro:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-7920HQ+@+3.10GHz


    The CPU in the Dell you specified is the Intel 8550u CPU (8th gen) benchmark is here:

    https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i7-8550U+@+1.80GHz

    Benchmarks: 

    7700HQ: 8862
    7820HQ: 9409
    7920HQ: 10230

    8550U: 8325

    These are all Core i7 models.

    You will see the performance of that is below that of the one you think Apple could be using. The updated one does use less watts, but doesn't appear to be faster. 


    My point being...just because its new(er) doesn't mean its better in terms of performance which goes back to my other point of, so you just want Apple to put the newest CPU in for the sake of updating when there may actually be little to no performance increase. I think back to the days of the G4 where Apple would release new Macs with updated G4 CPU's that performed WORSE than the outgoing model in terms of performance in real world testing. Once again, the latest and greatest doesn't always mean its better and just because Dell, HP, etc are using them doesn't mean they're ahead of Apple by any means. 
    I am not talking about the 15 inch versions which are quad core already but the 13 inch versions which is the most popular machine by far. This is what the Dell XPS13 story is all about - comparing apples to apples and not cherry picking chips to suit your story. However to prove you wrong, even with the 7700 which is running at 45W it cannot beat the 8550 running at 15W! Don't believe me then read this:

    https://www.pcworld.com/article/3235813/laptop-computers/intel-8th-gen-core-i7-review.html

    Going back to the 13 inch version the 7th Gen MB Pro uses a 2 core chip. All 8th Gen are 4 core, even at the i3 and i5 level I believe. The speed differences as the article point out are very real and very signifiant. The conclusion of this article states "There's only one way to describe our experience with the Core i7-8550U inside the Dell XPS 13: Impressed. No wait, damned impressed would be a better way to couch it."

    My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
    The new chip is a good one, but from the same review: 

    "In fact, the quad-core 8th-gen Core i7-8550U pretty much matches the dual-core 7th-gen Core i7-7500U on two and three threads and then falls below it on four threads. It also falls below Kaby Lake and Skylake quad-core CPUs.

    So yes, a 45-watt TDP with better cooling is going to be faster than a 15-watt one in a smaller, thinner laptop."

    Cherry picking indeed. They are not "much, much faster." They are the same speed in very short bursts, which, if you're in the market for a MacBook Pro, probably isn't what you need.


    Different chips for different use conditions. Personally, I'd rather wait for the heavy load Cannon Lake processors later in 2018 or early 2019.

    edited May 31 fastasleepstompybshankmacxpressrandominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 131
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,476member
    What about the Mac Pro? Seems like an ideal time to announce it. 
    Would be nice, but haven’t they already said LATE 2018 or sometime in 2019?
    Apple said the next Mac Pro is a 2019 product.  Nothing in 2018.
    edited May 31 cgWerksSpamSandwichmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 48 of 131
    KITAKITA Posts: 63member

    My point being..... The 8th Gen chips are much much faster, offer better battery life and have been around since November of last year. Why does it take 7 months for them to make it into MB Pro's? This is a legitimate question when Apple is positioning itself as the premium brand in the notebook market and when customers expect them to be competitive.
    They needed to wait for 8th generation chips with Iris Plus graphics for the 13" MBP.

    Alternatively, they could have used a dGPU. In the case of a laptop like the MateBook X Pro, they're using an Intel Core i7-8550U and NVIDIA's MX150 2GB.
    edited May 31
  • Reply 49 of 131
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,362member
    blastdoor said:
    But I would hope these would be two separate devices, because I'd like the Mac mini to be a "real computer", not an appliance. 
    Yes, I'm not opposed to the Mini becoming an 'appliance,' but then Apple also needs a desktop 'real computer' that doesn't cost $6000+.

    What about the Mac Pro? Seems like an ideal time to announce it. 
    An update would be nice, but I think we know it isn't coming until 2019... so next WWDC would be more likely.

    macxpress said:
    I would think next WWDC (2019)...it would be quite the surprise if Apple can design a totally brand new Mac Pro from the ground up in a year. Usually its at least 2yrs for a new Mac to be designed & engineered and be ready for market. Apple isn't going to just design box and slap a bunch of off the shelf parts in it like some think. This isn't HP, its Apple. 
    It takes a lot of hard work, research, and time to come up with a machine that won't meet the needs of pros but the wealthy will spend that much money on, huh? :)
    But, seriously, it's ridiculous it should take over a year, especially if they'd been working on it all along, as they should have. But, ridiculous even if they just started when they announced it.

    rogifan_new said:
    I wish Apple had spring events more regularly instead of packing all their new hardware in one quarter.
    I think they do often bring out hardware other times. But, I think this event is critical (for some of us) as if they don't do something substantial for the Mac, the message becomes quite clear.
  • Reply 50 of 131
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,362member
    macxpress said:
    If there's nothing significant to update the MacBook Pro to then what should Apple do? Apple should just update the MacBook Pro for the sake of just saying we updated it?
    How do you figure there is nothing to update about it?

    ljc94512 said:
    Not the chips that are suitable for the MacBook Pro though.  Apple has had longer than 12 months upgrade cycle before as well, I don't see a big issue with that.  
    Doesn't Intel have new laptop chips that use less power and come in 4 and even 6 core (instead of 2)... and was there also something about AMD vs Intel GPU? (though maybe that's not out yet).

    jcs2305 said:
    Wasn't the current Macbook Pro updated with Kaby Lake in June 2017?  Don't these machine carry the Mid 2017 model naming as well?  Sheesh... :/
    Once upon a time, Apple's laptops always had the latest Intel CPUs, just introduced, before the PC makers got them out... rather than lagging a year or two behind.
    gutengel
  • Reply 51 of 131
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 147member
    macxpress said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    If there's nothing significant to update the MacBook Pro to then what should Apple do? Apple should just update the MacBook Pro for the sake of just saying we updated it?

    macxpress said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    If there's nothing significant to update the MacBook Pro to then what should Apple do? Apple should just update the MacBook Pro for the sake of just saying we updated it?
    But there is something to update MacBook Pro's with... the 8th gen of intel processors which are much faster than the 6th and 7th generations. The 8th gen devices were released in October of last year and updated in April of this year! IF it is true that MacBook Pro's won't be updated at WWDC then it would be a wasted opportunity to get these devices to be competitive. Apple used to move quickly when updating Mac devices. We can see with the Mac Mini and others that this desire has gone. They are no longer hungry.
    If you’re talking about 8700K you might be right.  But 8th gen mobile just came no more than two month.  Only few laptops got a refresh now.
  • Reply 52 of 131
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 147member
    macxpress said:
    If this is true it shows Apple has the worst product update strategy in the whole business and are taking their customers for granted. The MacBook Pro's have processors that are 2 generations behind! Dell and others have introduced 8th gen intel processors months ago. Apple is a like a slow moving dinosaur. What is wrong with a MacBook Pro update every 8 to 12 months? We deserve better than this......
    If there's nothing significant to update the MacBook Pro to then what should Apple do? Apple should just update the MacBook Pro for the sake of just saying we updated it?
    I honestly think they need to be more efficient in their updates.  Something like a mid-term upgrade to bump up the specs (like a better display, beefier speakers, larger batteries...) and tweaking some hardware issues.

    For example, 2018 ThinkPads got a screen that has the same brightness as the one used in MacBook Pros.  So it's the best time to bump the brightness, as well adding features like HDR and 120Hz ProMotion to raise the bar again.
    edited May 31 cgWerks
  • Reply 53 of 131
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,362member
    fastasleep said:
    A generation of Intel chips get released in stages over a year or longer. SOME 8th gen processors are already out. That doesn’t mean the chipsets that would be appropriate for a MBP are out. The hexacores that many think might be the next MBP chip are just now or about to ship.
    As I said, once upon a time, that would mean we'd see new Apple laptops with that chip before the PC makers would get it out.

    Mike Wuerthele said:
    The new chip is a good one, but from the same review: 

    "... So yes, a 45-watt TDP with better cooling is going to be faster than a 15-watt one in a smaller, thinner laptop."
    Why do we need a smaller, thinner laptop, though? How about if it has the same cooling as the 45-watt version, then we get speed and quiet(er).
    But, unless you mean there is something else deficient about it, I'd take a 4-core over a 2-core or 6-core over a 4-core, even if the speed of each core were reduced some. But, I'm not most people, I guess.
    edited May 31
  • Reply 54 of 131
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 147member
    cgWerks said:
    fastasleep said:
    A generation of Intel chips get released in stages over a year or longer. SOME 8th gen processors are already out. That doesn’t mean the chipsets that would be appropriate for a MBP are out. The hexacores that many think might be the next MBP chip are just now or about to ship.
    As I said, once upon a time, that would mean we'd see new Apple laptops with that chip before the PC makers would get it out.

    Mike Wuerthele said:
    The new chip is a good one, but from the same review: 

    "... So yes, a 45-watt TDP with better cooling is going to be faster than a 15-watt one in a smaller, thinner laptop."
    Why do we need a smaller, thinner laptop, though? How about if it has the same cooling as the 45-watt version, then we get speed and quiet(er).
    Either you ended up having a 13-inch that’s 30mm thick, or impossible to fit.

    that said, the new quad-core works well.
  • Reply 55 of 131
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,362member
    DuhSesame said:
    Either you ended up having a 13-inch that’s 30mm thick, or impossible to fit.
    that said, the new quad-core works well.
    What I meant is that the quote Mike posted said, "... So yes, a 45-watt TDP with better cooling is going to be faster than a 15-watt one in a smaller, thinner laptop."

    But, what about: a 15-watt one in the same chassis as the 45-watt TDP with better cooling?

    And, yes, the problem with the current 13" for me is that it's only dual-core. I need quad-core minimum for whatever I end up with.
  • Reply 56 of 131
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 147member
    cgWerks said:
    DuhSesame said:
    Either you ended up having a 13-inch that’s 30mm thick, or impossible to fit.
    that said, the new quad-core works well.
    What I meant is that the quote Mike posted said, "... So yes, a 45-watt TDP with better cooling is going to be faster than a 15-watt one in a smaller, thinner laptop."

    But, what about: a 15-watt one in the same chassis as the 45-watt TDP with better cooling?

    And, yes, the problem with the current 13" for me is that it's only dual-core. I need quad-core minimum for whatever I end up with.
    Sure, that will be more adequate to cool the thing down and even quieter...but then you'll end up to put a better processor in anyway.

    Speaking of that, Intel is offering Core i5 mobile for 35~45 watts TDP, although none of the MacBook Pro lines were using it.  TDP itself doesn't referring the true power consumption of a specific chip, so you can always expect the i5 one will create much less heat than the i7.
    edited May 31
  • Reply 57 of 131
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 29,222member
    Hey... Apple just updated the WWDC app. It's happening!
  • Reply 58 of 131
    mike54mike54 Posts: 195member
    I'm hoping they will say something about the mac mini. Apple needs to put out a reasonably priced headless mac. I don't don't care if its mini, any size will do.
    cgWerks
  • Reply 59 of 131
    nunzynunzy Posts: 313member
    mike54 said:
    I'm hoping they will say something about the mac mini. Apple needs to put out a reasonably priced headless mac. I don't don't care if its mini, any size will do.
    The market for that would be way too small. iMac produces more revenue and likely makes higher margins.
  • Reply 60 of 131
    silvergold84silvergold84 Posts: 16unconfirmed, member
    We know that Bloomberg just reported fake news about the numbers of iPhone X sold . So now they let appear next wwdc less rich to favorite speculation in stock market. They still in this way without any real informations. Not right , not good. 
    mattinozwatto_cobra
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