Sketchy rumor claims 2018 iPhones will sport both embedded Apple SIMs and standard SIM tra...

AppleInsider

One or more of this fall's iPhones will make use of dual-SIM, dual-standby (DSDS) technology, in some cases using an embedded Apple SIM, a Chinese report claimed this week.

Mockups of Apple's 2018 iPhones.

Enabled iPhones will typically have an embedded Apple SIM paired with a conventional tray, the 21st Century Business Herald said. Chinese models will allegedly use two trays, since Apple SIMs aren't available there.

The reliability of the report is questionable, as the Herald doesn't have a track record with Apple products, and dual-SIM iPhones have been rumored as far back as the iPhone 7. The publication also didn't indicate which specific phones will use the technology, an issue since Apple is expected to premiere three new models this year: 5.8- and 6.5-inch OLED products, and a less expensive 6.1-inch LCD device.

At the same time, analyst Ming-Chi Kuo -- known for his supply chain connections -- has hinted at the possibility of dual-SIM iPhones, pointing to the 6.1- and 6.5-inch models.

DSDS technology provides a number of benefits, the most obvious being the ability to travel across borders or coverage zones without swapping SIM cards. This is a key consideration for people in China, who often jump cellular providers between provinces. Dual-SIM configurations are also attractive to businesses that manage their own mobile device deployments.

Apple SIMs were first introduced in 2014 as a way of letting 4G iPad owners switch carriers without constantly buying and swapping SIM cards. iPad Pros now feature embedded Apple SIMs, though other models must still use separate cards Apple sells.

nunzy

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? Apple's skates to where the puck is going to be, not where it used to be.  if Apple eliminated of a SIM card, all the Android phones would do exactly the same thing because all that Android does is copy Apple every time.

tzterri

They should also remove all buttons and the screen. :-/

foggyhill

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? Apple's skates to where the puck is going to be, not where it used to be.  if Apple eliminated of a SIM card, all the Android phones would do exactly the same thing because all that Android does is copy Apple every time.

Some of the telco are not playing ball on the sim virtualisation on phones, though I think they're ok with it on some other devices like tablets.

Rayz2016

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

macgui

Not.Gonna.Happen. I make this statement in the hopes that Apple proves me wrong and offers a phone I want with eSIM/SIM capability. 

This would make moving to a new phone effortless. A future upgrade from that could be dual-SIM capability. But I still call Not.Gonna.Happen.

wood1208

If Apple have one storage version(i.e. 128GB or 256GB ) of 6.1" and 6.5" dual SIM than both could be sold like never seen before. Extra cost of dual SIM added to higher storage price. I don't care eSIM much as dual SIM tray where when travelling overseas, you just add new SIM to a slot on dual sim tray.

sflocal

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? Apple's skates to where the puck is going to be, not where it used to be.  if Apple eliminated of a SIM card, all the Android phones would do exactly the same thing because all that Android does is copy Apple every time.

It's been discussed countless times.  Telcos don't like eSims.  It's inevitable, but they aren't going to take it without kicking and screaming.

It would eliminate another exterior opening that would assist in making the phone that much more weather/water resistant at least.

lkrupp

macgui said:

Not.Gonna.Happen. I make this statement in the hopes that Apple proves me wrong and offers a phone I want with eSIM/SIM capability. 

This would make moving to a new phone effortless. A future upgrade from that could be dual-SIM capability. But I still call Not.Gonna.Happen.

So how do you get network providers to support eSIM when they virulently oppose it?

avon b7

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

Dual SIM would be a smart move to attract many businesspeople. Dual simultaneous VoLTE would be even better.

Rayz2016

avon b7 said:

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

You have to look deeper than that. At the moment, you need to request a PAC code to move your number, and the hastle of doing that keeps folk on the same network. 

With an eSim you could switch provider over the internet and we could chop and change like we can with energy companies. The mobile providers don’t want that. 

But Apple wants to take it a step further. 

They want to become a mobile data provider. Your contract is with Apple, but the sim can flip to the provider with the strongest signal in your area. The providers certainly don’t want to give Apple that kind of power over them. 

foggyhill

Rayz2016 said:

avon b7 said:

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

You have to look deeper than that. At the moment, you need to request a PAC code to move your number, and the hastle of doing that keeps folk on the same network. 

With an eSim you could switch provider over the internet and we could chop and change like we can with energy companies. The mobile providers don’t want that. 

But Apple wants to take it a step further. 

They want to become a mobile data provider. Your contract is with Apple, but the sim can flip to the provider with the strongest signal in your area. The providers certainly don’t want to give Apple that kind of power over them. 

The providers would truly be "dumb pipes" if this happens.

Being able to switch all kind of services, not just Telecom, with Apple/IOS being the broker is something I see a lot of.

With Internet of things and pervasive sensors, many services could be on offer (microservices dependent on local data and actions) as you move into the environment and you could filter the types you want according to your preferences. 

You want a autonomous car to pick you up when you get out of the building ever day, set you preference and geofence a pickup place and there you go, get out of the building and your rides stops right in front of you and you hop in. 

radarthekat

Here in the Philippines the two big providers are Smart and Globe.  All my friends here who carry Androids have both SIMs.  It cost about $2/week to add a package that provides 1gb of data, unlimited texts and 100 call minutes.  With an Android dual SIM tray phone (pretty much any Android) you can easily switch on the fly as cell coverage dictates.  Apple, with single SIM tray models only, is currently out of touch with the realities on the ground in developing countries.  

Soli

I look forward to the day that a physical SIM card and SIM tray are removed and we can laugh at those that said its inclusion as an absolute necessity for all time, like the people that insisted that an optical drive would always be necessary because it's how we load software.

avon b7

Rayz2016 said:

avon b7 said:

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

You have to look deeper than that. At the moment, you need to request a PAC code to move your number, and the hastle of doing that keeps folk on the same network. 

With an eSim you could switch provider over the internet and we could chop and change like we can with energy companies. The mobile providers don’t want that. 

But Apple wants to take it a step further. 

They want to become a mobile data provider. Your contract is with Apple, but the sim can flip to the provider with the strongest signal in your area. The providers certainly don’t want to give Apple that kind of power over them. 

In that case it's as I thought, a competition problem. No such requirements in Spain due to legislation on the matter.

You just inform your new provider and in two business days the process will complete. The first 24 hours are a grace period that allow you to cancel the process if you change heart.

As a user, all you have to do is accept the offer from a new carrier. Couldn't be simpler.

macgui

lkrupp said:

macgui said:

Not.Gonna.Happen. I make this statement in the hopes that Apple proves me wrong and offers a phone I want with eSIM/SIM capability. 

This would make moving to a new phone effortless. A future upgrade from that could be dual-SIM capability. But I still call Not.Gonna.Happen.

So how do you get network providers to support eSIM when they virulently oppose it?

Not my problem.

GeorgeBMac

foggyhill said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? Apple's skates to where the puck is going to be, not where it used to be.  if Apple eliminated of a SIM card, all the Android phones would do exactly the same thing because all that Android does is copy Apple every time.

Some of the telco are not playing ball on the sim virtualisation on phones, though I think they're ok with it on some other devices like tablets.

My carrier, Consumer Cellular, is one of them.   Their motto:  "No SIM, No Service".

It's why I can't get an Apple Watch Series3 w/ LTE -- they won't let it attach to their network.

Cell carriers work in a world colluding with each other to make their own lives easier and more profitable.   We see it when it helps them or becomes inevitable.  So far, getting rid of the SIM tray does neither.

GeorgeBMac

avon b7 said:

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

Dual SIM would be a smart move to attract many businesspeople. Dual simultaneous VoLTE would be even better.

  No, mobile number portability has nothing to do with competition.  It's a government mandate imposed on our competition averse telcom industry.   From Wikipedia:

"LNP [Local Number Portability] was invented by Edward Sonnenberg while working for Siemens. Though it was introduced as a tool to promote competition in the heavily monopolized wireline telecommunications industry,[6] number portability became popular with the advent of mobile telephones, since in most countries different mobile operators are provided with different area codes and, without portability, changing one's operator would require changing one's number. Some operators, especially incumbent operators with large existing subscriber bases, have argued against portability on the grounds that providing this service incurs considerable overhead, while others argue that it prevents vendor lock-in and allows them to compete fairly on price and service. Due to this conflict of interest, number portability is usually mandated for all operators by telecommunications regulatory authorities. In the US, LNP was mandated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in 1996.[6] "

I suspect that eSIM may require something similar -- where the telcoms just won't get a vote.

GeorgeBMac

radarthekat said:

Here in the Philippines the two big providers are Smart and Globe.  All my friends here who carry Androids have both SIMs.  It cost about $2/week to add a package that provides 1gb of data, unlimited texts and 100 call minutes.  With an Android dual SIM tray phone (pretty much any Android) you can easily switch on the fly as cell coverage dictates.  Apple, with single SIM tray models only, is currently out of touch with the realities on the ground in developing countries.  

100 years ago, in America, the government stepped in and eliminated that kind of nonsense (splitting an area between two different competing carriers) to the advantage of all.  Unfortunately we have forgotten that lesson and adopted the belief that so called competition benefits consumers, always.

avon b7

GeorgeBMac said:

avon b7 said:

Rayz2016 said:

nunzy said:

 Why doesn't Apple just eliminate the SIM card all together? 

Because the telecom outfits don’t like eSims. They make it too easy to change provider. 

Isn't this a competition problem? We have movile number portability here. Couldn't be easier to change operator and keep the same number. SIM, micro SIM, nano SIM etc don't really come into it unless you get a new phone with a different format and they charge you 5€ for the switch but the switching process itself is painless and quick.

Dual SIM would be a smart move to attract many businesspeople. Dual simultaneous VoLTE would be even better.

  No, mobile number portability has nothing to do with competition.  It's a government mandate imposed on our competition averse telcom industry.   From Wikipedia:

"LNP [Local Number Portability] was invented by Edward Sonnenberg while working for Siemens. Though it was introduced as a tool to promote competition in the heavily monopolized wireline telecommunications industry,[6] number portability became popular with the advent of mobile telephones, since in most countries different mobile operators are provided with different area codes and, without portability, changing one's operator would require changing one's number. Some operators, especially incumbent operators with large existing subscriber bases, have argued against portability on the grounds that providing this service incurs considerable overhead, while others argue that it prevents vendor lock-in and allows them to compete fairly on price and service. Due to this conflict of interest, number portability is usually mandated for all operators by telecommunications regulatory authorities. In the US, LNP was mandated by the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) in 1996.[6] "

I suspect that eSIM may require something similar -- where the telcoms just won't get a vote.

In Spain it is purely for competition reasons. Any technical hurdles had to be overcome to comply with legislation that guaranteed competition. That's why there is a central node to handle portability, and time limits are imposed on all carriers (who are also obliged to share infrastructure). The good news is that it largely works and even virtual carriers can provide deals that undercut the major carriers. You have choice and there is little hassle. It is basically invisible to the user. The bad news is that the major carriers are always trying to abuse their position, often resulting in large fines from the government and Spanish mobile and internet providers are still some of the most expensive in Europe. That said, and thanks to portability and the legislation surrounding it, I think Spain has some of the largest numbers of users switching carriers, as well as a huge mobile park (I think one of the biggest per inhabitant).

curtis hannah

Telephone companies Wong accept embedded Sims, so the only way to move forward is throwing them in on top of a seperate sim tray, but this feels like something Apple won't do because it also would take more space in iPhones.