Huawei surpasses Apple as world's No. 2 smartphone vendor

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  • Reply 41 of 141
    fallenjtfallenjt Posts: 3,854member
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    No fcking doubt. The tradeoff for cheap labors in China is your IP stolen. Nothing we can do about it. 
    The company I work for, designs sophisticated science instruments which include thousands of machine parts. They never outsourced any part abroad but manufacture themselves right here in US. For decades, they got no Chinese copycat. They welcome the Chinese to reverse engineer it. Guess what: still no China craps. 
    elijahg
  • Reply 42 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    tmay said:
    MacPro said:
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    Not to mention probably not a lot of profit even if they didn't need any R&D $.
    Not for nothing, they spent more on R&D than Apple did.  
    Are you sure, and did you account for the fact that the majority of Huawei's business is still Telecom?

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/3/15/an-apple-rd-bonanza

    Looks like both companies will spend about $14 B in 2018.
    Huawei has often spent more on R&D than Apple. This year that looks to be true again. They just announced an increase in R&D spending to between $15B and $20B too.

    https://technode.com/2018/07/27/huawei-rd-5g/

    Huawei has over 80,000 employees dedicated to R&D.

    Perhaps the most recent news on that front was advances made with polar codes. Huawei has put major effort and billions of dollars into Dr. Erdal Erikan's baby:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/07/27/the-key-for-huawei-and-china-in-5g-race-against-the-u-s-is-a-turkish-professor/

    The majority of its business has historically been communications but given the meteoric rise of its consumer business group, there is now almost s 50/50 split between the two. Then you have to add on the enterprise division.

    edited August 1
  • Reply 43 of 141
    smalmsmalm Posts: 652member
    Samsung’s operating profit this past quarter was $13.3 billion.
    Apple’s was $12.6 billion. 
    Of course not all of Samsung’s profit comes from smartphones but then neither does Apple's.
    Smartphones contributed <18% to Samsung's operating profit and >55% to Apple's.
    When it comes to profit Samsung is a memory manufacturer also doing some other stuff...
  • Reply 44 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    LOL. Who cares about units shipped? Down that road lies ruin.
    Given that Huawei has just announced half year results that show a 15% increase in revenues and an increase in margins and last year they counted their profits in the billions, units shipped is a massive metric for such a vertically integrated company.

    One example:

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/17/12/13/apple-samsung-could-be-only-smartphone-makers-with-7nm-chips-in-2018

    Far from Apple and Samsung being the only players likely to be able to afford 7nm chips, Huawei is on track to be the first out of the gate with one.

    The date is 31.08.18 at IFA Berlin. Just 30 days from now.

    If you are selling at a profit, units shipped is a key number. Each of those units is of course a sale that a competitor didn't get.


    muthuk_vanalingamelijahgHypereality
  • Reply 45 of 141
    dandan said:
    You’re nuts i live in America every place i go to its 8 out of 10 phones apple where the hell are these other makers selling.  Its bs shipping or manufacture phones not selling
    They must be getting sold in that little country called Not-America with a population of many billions.
    elijahg
  • Reply 46 of 141
    Every time these numbers come out every talks about how irrelevant IDC's figures are and yes, the press release by itself is just a nice headline. But IDC's clients buy the next level down, which includes ASP, market share by price band, by country, by screen size etc. This might not be very useful to Apple but it is for a company like Samsung that is trying to predict demand for its component business, for retailers looking to buy stock, for mid-tier handset manufacturers identifying where they can grow sales, or for Huawei to demonstrate that they aren't just some little Chinese company that can't compete with Samsung.

    Is the data perfect? No, but they can get a fairly good idea by checking via multiple sources, like the channel, component suppliers, buyer surveys, getting vendor data from the top down and bottom up and asking the vendors themselves what they think of their competitors' data.
  • Reply 47 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.


    elijahg
  • Reply 48 of 141
    borpsborps Posts: 9member
    It's the same old number game. Yes there are more Windows users than Mac users, yes there are more Huawei phones sold than iPhones, and yes there are way more cockroaches than humans on the planet 

    Numbers alone do not denote a higher lifeform.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 49 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    borps said:
    It's the same old number game. Yes there are more Windows users than Mac users, yes there are more Huawei phones sold than iPhones, and yes there are way more cockroaches than humans on the planet 

    Numbers alone do not denote a higher lifeform.
    Lifeform? No. Smartphones!

    If you are instead drawing parallels, then may I suggest that the P20 Pro could be that higher lifeform? ;-)
    elijahg
  • Reply 50 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    dandan said:
    You’re nuts i live in America every place i go to its 8 out of 10 phones apple where the hell are these other makers selling.  Its bs shipping or manufacture phones not selling
    You might not be able to get your head around this but Huawei's achievement is all the more impressive as they managed it without full access to the US market.

    The world is a big place. Take one country, Portugal for example:

    https://www.telecompaper.com/news/huawei-targets-sales-of-3-million-smartphones-in-portugal-in-2018--1253697

    Then start adding others.


    elijahg
  • Reply 51 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,864member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    MacPro said:
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    Not to mention probably not a lot of profit even if they didn't need any R&D $.
    Not for nothing, they spent more on R&D than Apple did.  
    Are you sure, and did you account for the fact that the majority of Huawei's business is still Telecom?

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/3/15/an-apple-rd-bonanza

    Looks like both companies will spend about $14 B in 2018.
    Huawei has often spent more on R&D than Apple. This year that looks to be true again. They just announced an increase in R&D spending to between $15B and $20B too.

    https://technode.com/2018/07/27/huawei-rd-5g/

    Huawei has over 80,000 employees dedicated to R&D.

    Perhaps the most recent news on that front was advances made with polar codes. Huawei has put major effort and billions of dollars into Dr. Erdal Erikan's baby:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/07/27/the-key-for-huawei-and-china-in-5g-race-against-the-u-s-is-a-turkish-professor/

    The majority of its business has historically been communications but given the meteoric rise of its consumer business group, there is now almost s 50/50 split between the two. Then you have to add on the enterprise division.

    Funny.

    From your link:

    "Why it’s important: The increase in R&D spending comes as Huawei is experiencing resistance in overseas markets. The US, UK, and Australia have all voiced concerns about the company’s technology on security grounds. Despite this, Huawei hopes to spearhead the development and deployment of 5G infrastructure globally, with its 5G base stations already receiving approval for sale within the EU. The additional R&D spending should help it realize these ambitions."

  • Reply 52 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    MacPro said:
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    Not to mention probably not a lot of profit even if they didn't need any R&D $.
    Not for nothing, they spent more on R&D than Apple did.  
    Are you sure, and did you account for the fact that the majority of Huawei's business is still Telecom?

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/3/15/an-apple-rd-bonanza

    Looks like both companies will spend about $14 B in 2018.
    Huawei has often spent more on R&D than Apple. This year that looks to be true again. They just announced an increase in R&D spending to between $15B and $20B too.

    https://technode.com/2018/07/27/huawei-rd-5g/

    Huawei has over 80,000 employees dedicated to R&D.

    Perhaps the most recent news on that front was advances made with polar codes. Huawei has put major effort and billions of dollars into Dr. Erdal Erikan's baby:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/07/27/the-key-for-huawei-and-china-in-5g-race-against-the-u-s-is-a-turkish-professor/

    The majority of its business has historically been communications but given the meteoric rise of its consumer business group, there is now almost s 50/50 split between the two. Then you have to add on the enterprise division.

    Funny.

    From your link:

    "Why it’s important: The increase in R&D spending comes as Huawei is experiencing resistance in overseas markets. The US, UK, and Australia have all voiced concerns about the company’s technology on security grounds. Despite this, Huawei hopes to spearhead the development and deployment of 5G infrastructure globally, with its 5G base stations already receiving approval for sale within the EU. The additional R&D spending should help it realize these ambitions."

    Once again, you lost me there.

    I know what is in the link. What is funny?

    Has Huawei not, and almost consistently, spent more on R&D than Apple?  Is Apple going to pump between 15 and 20 billion into R&D?


    elijahg
  • Reply 53 of 141
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    MacPro said:
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    Not to mention probably not a lot of profit even if they didn't need any R&D $.
    Not for nothing, they spent more on R&D than Apple did.  
    Are you sure, and did you account for the fact that the majority of Huawei's business is still Telecom?

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/3/15/an-apple-rd-bonanza

    Looks like both companies will spend about $14 B in 2018.
    Huawei has often spent more on R&D than Apple. This year that looks to be true again. They just announced an increase in R&D spending to between $15B and $20B too.

    https://technode.com/2018/07/27/huawei-rd-5g/

    Huawei has over 80,000 employees dedicated to R&D.

    Perhaps the most recent news on that front was advances made with polar codes. Huawei has put major effort and billions of dollars into Dr. Erdal Erikan's baby:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/07/27/the-key-for-huawei-and-china-in-5g-race-against-the-u-s-is-a-turkish-professor/

    The majority of its business has historically been communications but given the meteoric rise of its consumer business group, there is now almost s 50/50 split between the two. Then you have to add on the enterprise division.

    Funny.

    From your link:

    "Why it’s important: The increase in R&D spending comes as Huawei is experiencing resistance in overseas markets. The US, UK, and Australia have all voiced concerns about the company’s technology on security grounds. Despite this, Huawei hopes to spearhead the development and deployment of 5G infrastructure globally, with its 5G base stations already receiving approval for sale within the EU. The additional R&D spending should help it realize these ambitions."

    All of those countries have voiced concerns yet have Huawei gear in their comms infrastructure.
  • Reply 54 of 141
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 422member
    Bebe said:
    Just like one poster said, this is just a bragging right. Who cares?
    You do ... 😎
  • Reply 55 of 141
    MarvzMarvz Posts: 1member
    Here in the Philippines, people were buying chinese phones because of low cost which is parallel to their low monthly income. But most of them would prepare iphones that is why iphone 5s is one of the most selling iphone here I guess. An iphone X would cost here $1300, and average monthly income of person working here is $300. It contributed  to grow its user base. Last year i bought my 7+ for $900, and I would be sticking with it for 2 more years. 
  • Reply 56 of 141
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 422member
    LOL. Who cares about units shipped? Down that road lies ruin.
    How is shipped vs sold still a persistent thing?  I'm sure you're well aware that Apple's "sold" is the same thing as Huawei's shipped.  Apple has made that clear in their earnings reports.  They consider iPhones sold when they ship to the customer.  That customer is AT&T, Verizon, Best Buy, Walmart, etc.  The only phones that are sold and counted as such are phones sold in Apple stores,  Apple online, and some education sales.  The majority of Apple's phone "sales" occur as shipped.  This is old news.  Not sure how you don't already know this.
    Easy now tiger.. did you happen to see the OP’s post count ?  Folks that have been here a while have been down this market share road before. It was a sillly bragging point for Samsung for years. Units shipped vs sold. I remember reading something saying that said Samsung had units just sitting unsold in a warehouse at one point... hey at least they we’re shipped! Hahaha. I think you missed the point of the post. 
  • Reply 57 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,864member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    MacPro said:
    Junk for a junk market. As usual, with stolen IP. 

    Ugh. 
    Not to mention probably not a lot of profit even if they didn't need any R&D $.
    Not for nothing, they spent more on R&D than Apple did.  
    Are you sure, and did you account for the fact that the majority of Huawei's business is still Telecom?

    https://www.aboveavalon.com/notes/2018/3/15/an-apple-rd-bonanza

    Looks like both companies will spend about $14 B in 2018.
    Huawei has often spent more on R&D than Apple. This year that looks to be true again. They just announced an increase in R&D spending to between $15B and $20B too.

    https://technode.com/2018/07/27/huawei-rd-5g/

    Huawei has over 80,000 employees dedicated to R&D.

    Perhaps the most recent news on that front was advances made with polar codes. Huawei has put major effort and billions of dollars into Dr. Erdal Erikan's baby:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/bensin/2018/07/27/the-key-for-huawei-and-china-in-5g-race-against-the-u-s-is-a-turkish-professor/

    The majority of its business has historically been communications but given the meteoric rise of its consumer business group, there is now almost s 50/50 split between the two. Then you have to add on the enterprise division.

    Funny.

    From your link:

    "Why it’s important: The increase in R&D spending comes as Huawei is experiencing resistance in overseas markets. The US, UK, and Australia have all voiced concerns about the company’s technology on security grounds. Despite this, Huawei hopes to spearhead the development and deployment of 5G infrastructure globally, with its 5G base stations already receiving approval for sale within the EU. The additional R&D spending should help it realize these ambitions."

    All of those countries have voiced concerns yet have Huawei gear in their comms infrastructure.
    Avon B7 and I were in a different thread arguing whether Huawei was hampered for security concerns in the U.S., or as he contends, Huawei is being constrained to reduce competition for Apple.

    You are free to weigh in, but note, the U.S. is planning on legislating the removal of existing Huawei and ZTE telecom equipment in use, so this isn't a theoretical exercise.
  • Reply 58 of 141
    djsherlydjsherly Posts: 971member
    Came here for the shipped v sold argument and the asp argument and was not disappointed. :)


  • Reply 59 of 141
    Apart from the well-observed metric that units shipped do not equate to units sold, the fact that Apple is still breaking its own year-on-year sales revenue and profit records in nearly every quarter indicates that there is still headroom for its growth.

    Of equal interest is the fact that the Crouching Tigers have started to spring, and the Hidden Dragons have emerged and started flying, all in pursuit of one quarry - Samsung. Yikes!
  • Reply 60 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,468member
    Marvz said:
    Here in the Philippines, people were buying chinese phones because of low cost which is parallel to their low monthly income. But most of them would prepare iphones that is why iphone 5s is one of the most selling iphone here I guess. An iphone X would cost here $1300, and average monthly income of person working here is $300. It contributed  to grow its user base. Last year i bought my 7+ for $900, and I would be sticking with it for 2 more years. 
    It's logical for people to purchase in line with what their salaries allow them to.

    Apple is catering (but only recently) to lower average wage countries with a little more focus (given that its sales have flattened and other markets have matured) but doing so with older hardware. If it works, fine but competitors are putting new hardware in those same markets and demand is there from top end models down through the price bands and that would appear to be the case for the Philippines too.

    https://www.teknogadyet.com/2018/04/huawei-p20-series-specs-price-availability-philippines.html?m=1
    edited August 1
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