Huawei surpasses Apple as world's No. 2 smartphone vendor

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  • Reply 101 of 141
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 218member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.
    A: The way I read it Huawei is mostly eating into Samsung Sales. They are not impacting Apple who's numbers went up.
    B: There's room for multiple tiers in any mature marketplace. There are Chevy's and Mercedes. Just because GM sells numerically more Chevys than Mercedes doesn't mean that GMs strategy is better or that Mercedes is in trouble. They are going after different markets. They really aren;t even comparable. Some people want a Cessna Jet, some want an Ultralight. They aren't competing. Some people want clothes off of the Walmart rack, some go for a Brooks Brothers suit. They aren't competing. Yes there will always be a market for $100 phones, just as there is a market for $200 laptops, and $79 tablets. That isn't Apple's market. 
  • Reply 102 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"
    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    They don't sell a lot of flagships?

    Say hi to the Honor 10:

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/15/huawei-launches-honor-10-flagship-smartphone-with-ai-camera/

    Pay attention to the release date: 15.05.18 worldwide. A little earlier in China.

    One month later. 1,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2018/05/22/honor-10-sales-exceed-1-million-in-less-than-1-month/

    Three months later. 3,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/three-million-honor-10-units-reportedly-sold-in-three-months-4744391.html

    Currently the Honor 10 stands at over 4,000,000 units shipped. That came out in an interview for which I don't have the link to hand.

    Your argument falls apart at the seams on just ONE model. Since the release of the Honor 10, the enhanced Honor 10GT has been released and just yesterday the the Honor Note 10 was announced.

    Ok. Let's move up to the very top of the mainstream phones: the P20 Series also released this last quarter:

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-P20-sales-numbers_id105758

    6,000,000! In very little time (7,000,000 now).

    Now add on to that, sales of the Mate 10 series and the Porsche Design, ultra flagships and let's close the circle with what was staring you straight in the face from the very start of your misguided comments:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Do you know why the Mate 10 Porsche Design even existed? Because the Mate 9 version sold out worldwide!
     
    https://senatus.net/article/ultra-luxurious-porsche-design-huawei-mate-10-builds-sold-out-success-its-predecessor/

    That was even before the iPhone X existed. And now we are on Mate RS. The third generation of super ultra premium phones (the Mate RS will set you back 2,000 dollars).

    Huawei is shipping more and more flagship phones. Stick your head in the sand if you wish. I told you they were breaking records because that info came from the company itself and that kind of info could well be in a PR pack somewhere (who knows!) but I certainly don't have it and it wouldn't make the NUMBERS any less true!

    Lastly, and I will repeat, ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels. ASP is abmetric for INVESTORS.










    edited August 1
  • Reply 103 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.

    Nice spin. What it shows is that Huawei and Samsung are failing to attract the much more lucrative flagship market. They are like McDonalds. Selling high volumes of basically worthless products. Nobody trades up from a low-end phone to a flagship, so neither Huawei or Samsung are converting any of those buyers into more valuable customers or finding a way to generate additional revenue from their sales (like Apple does with The App Store, iCloud, Apple Music and so on).
    Try setting up any Huawei flagship. The migration assistant will ask you if you are migrating from a Huawei phone, an Android phone or an iPhone.

    I wonder why?
  • Reply 104 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
  • Reply 105 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"
    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    They don't sell a lot of flagships?

    Say hi to the Honor 10:

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/15/huawei-launches-honor-10-flagship-smartphone-with-ai-camera/

    Pay attention to the release date: 15.05.18 worldwide. A little earlier in China.

    One month later. 1,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2018/05/22/honor-10-sales-exceed-1-million-in-less-than-1-month/

    Three months later. 3,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/three-million-honor-10-units-reportedly-sold-in-three-months-4744391.html

    Currently the Honor 10 stands at over 4,000,000 units shipped. That came out in an interview for which I don't have the link to hand.

    Your argument falls apart at the seams on just ONE model. Since the release of the Honor 10, the enhanced Honor 10GT has been released and just yesterday the the Honor Note 10 was announced.

    Ok. Let's move up to the very top of the mainstream phones: the P20 Series also released this last quarter:

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-P20-sales-numbers_id105758

    6,000,000! In very little time 

    Now add on to that, sales of the Mate 10 series and the Porsche Design, ultra flagships and let's close the circle with what was staring you straight in the face from the very start of your misguided comments:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Do you know why the Mate 10 Porsche Design even existed? Because the Mate 9 version sold out worldwide!
     
    https://senatus.net/article/ultra-luxurious-porsche-design-huawei-mate-10-builds-sold-out-success-its-predecessor/

    That was even before the iPhone X existed. And now we are on Mate RS. The third generation of super ultra premium phones (the Mate RS will set you back 2,000 dollars).

    Huawei is shipping more and more flagship phones. Stick your head in the sand if you wish. I told you they were breaking records because that info came from the company itself and that kind of info could well be in a PR pack somewhere (who knows!) but I certainly don't have it and it wouldn't make the NUMBERS any less true!

    Lastly, and I will repeat, ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels. ASP is abmetric for INVESTORS.











    Blah blah blah......

    Samsung sold record numbers of S9's when it launched. They admitted just the other day that S9 sales were lower than expected. SO you yapping about high sales numbers when something is launched (channel stuffing and suppliers placing orders) means NOTHING. Why aren't you talking about ASP.

    Oh right, because it's extremely important, and since Huawei's ASP is dismally low you're trying to avoid it or claim it's not relevant. Read my post above and educate yourself, before you continue to make yourself look like even more of a fool.
  • Reply 106 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    Yeah exactly. I'd like to see him break down the number of cheap units (they have an entire sub-brand dedicated to barely passable smartphones) vs the number of high-end, cost-as-much-or-more-than-an-iPhone flagships. And then we can get into ASP. Etc...

    Nah. They're just cranking out cheap chinese knockoffs. Not much to see here.
    Dedicated to barely passable smartphones?

    You mean like this one?

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/huaweis-200-honor-7x-is-the-future-of-the-smartphone-industry/

    Maybe you are confusing barely passable with great value?

    Or this

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/honor-10-review

    Or this

    https://www.gsmarena.com/huawei_honor_view_10-review-1716.php

    Or this

    https://bgr.com/2018/08/01/honor-mate-10-release-date-specs-note-9-iphone-x-plus/

    Which sub-brand are you talking about?

    Honor exists to give users options at lower prices. Do you have any objections to that? It doesn't only cater to that market though as it has flagship phones at over $500.

    Perhaps by 'barely passable' you actually meant Apple which is trying to shift years old phones in developing (but not limited to)  markets while the 'knockoffs' offer new designs and up to date tech at better prices.

    In India in Q2, Honor achieved YoY growth of 188%. That is passable

    https://telecom.economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/huawei-says-eyeing-top-spot-in-indias-premium-smartphone-market/65197102





  • Reply 107 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."

    edited August 1
  • Reply 108 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"
    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    They don't sell a lot of flagships?

    Say hi to the Honor 10:

    https://venturebeat.com/2018/05/15/huawei-launches-honor-10-flagship-smartphone-with-ai-camera/

    Pay attention to the release date: 15.05.18 worldwide. A little earlier in China.

    One month later. 1,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.gizchina.com/2018/05/22/honor-10-sales-exceed-1-million-in-less-than-1-month/

    Three months later. 3,000,000 units shipped:

    https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/three-million-honor-10-units-reportedly-sold-in-three-months-4744391.html

    Currently the Honor 10 stands at over 4,000,000 units shipped. That came out in an interview for which I don't have the link to hand.

    Your argument falls apart at the seams on just ONE model. Since the release of the Honor 10, the enhanced Honor 10GT has been released and just yesterday the the Honor Note 10 was announced.

    Ok. Let's move up to the very top of the mainstream phones: the P20 Series also released this last quarter:

    https://www.phonearena.com/news/Huawei-P20-sales-numbers_id105758

    6,000,000! In very little time 

    Now add on to that, sales of the Mate 10 series and the Porsche Design, ultra flagships and let's close the circle with what was staring you straight in the face from the very start of your misguided comments:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Do you know why the Mate 10 Porsche Design even existed? Because the Mate 9 version sold out worldwide!
     
    https://senatus.net/article/ultra-luxurious-porsche-design-huawei-mate-10-builds-sold-out-success-its-predecessor/

    That was even before the iPhone X existed. And now we are on Mate RS. The third generation of super ultra premium phones (the Mate RS will set you back 2,000 dollars).

    Huawei is shipping more and more flagship phones. Stick your head in the sand if you wish. I told you they were breaking records because that info came from the company itself and that kind of info could well be in a PR pack somewhere (who knows!) but I certainly don't have it and it wouldn't make the NUMBERS any less true!

    Lastly, and I will repeat, ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels. ASP is abmetric for INVESTORS.











    Blah blah blah......

    Samsung sold record numbers of S9's when it launched. They admitted just the other day that S9 sales were lower than expected. SO you yapping about high sales numbers when something is launched (channel stuffing and suppliers placing orders) means NOTHING. Why aren't you talking about ASP.

    Oh right, because it's extremely important, and since Huawei's ASP is dismally low you're trying to avoid it or claim it's not relevant. Read my post above and educate yourself, before you continue to make yourself look like even more of a fool.
    That's it?

    "blah, blah, blah..."

    You haven't done yourself any favours by demanding someone demonstrate something you yourself were disputing! Normally it should be the accuser who provides the evidence but I indulged you all the same.

    So, you came up blank!

    Are you into rumours? This might give you good for thought...

    https://bgr.com/2018/08/01/huawei-mate-20-pro-leak-all-screen-phone/

    Yeah, I know, if true it won't sell, right?
  • Reply 109 of 141
    drewys808drewys808 Posts: 528member
    avon b7 said:

    Huawei is shipping more and more flagship phones. Stick your head in the sand if you wish. I told you they were breaking records because that info came from the company itself and that kind of info could well be in a PR pack somewhere (who knows!) but I certainly don't have it and it wouldn't make the NUMBERS any less true!

    Lastly, and I will repeat, ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels. ASP is abmetric for INVESTORS.

    More incessant FUD and flawgic.  At least we’re finally getting to the bottom of your motives here. 
    I’m not dissing Huawei, but for now, their success is mostly coming at the expense of other Android options and not much different than product launches like Motorola, Google, HTC, etc.

    the Apple (iOS) platform remains strong. 

    What I find particularly amusing is when you say, “ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels.”   Since ASP along with GM is fundamentally related to profit... what will you say next, that profit isn’t important either?

    on second thought, ignore my question since I now got you on “ignore”. 
  • Reply 110 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    How stupid can you be?

    Developers go where the money is. iOS Apps are superior to Android because of this fact. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. Accessory makers don’t develop products for niche devices (Huawei flagships or any other flagship that sells in low volumes). They DO make a ridiculous amount of accessories for iPhones. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. The entire iOS ecosystem is superior because it’s comprised entirely of flagships with higher ASP.

    Do you understand basic math? Huawei’s low ASP is 100% proof that flagships make up a fraction of their total sales. This has been discussed countless times at AI, so don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. But for fun I’ll give you an example:

    1 - Huawei Flagship @ $800
    4 - Huawei Basic Phone @ $96.25

    Total: $1,185
    ASP: $237

    To hit their ASP they’d sell a single flagship for every four sub $100 phones. I stand by my claim that flagships make up a fraction of total sales. Feel free to come up with your own mix of devices and prices to hit a $237 ASP “and” show a large number of flagship sales. You didn’t last time I asked so I doubt you will this time.

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.
  • Reply 111 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    drewys808 said:
    avon b7 said:

    Huawei is shipping more and more flagship phones. Stick your head in the sand if you wish. I told you they were breaking records because that info came from the company itself and that kind of info could well be in a PR pack somewhere (who knows!) but I certainly don't have it and it wouldn't make the NUMBERS any less true!

    Lastly, and I will repeat, ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels. ASP is abmetric for INVESTORS.

    More incessant FUD and flawgic.  At least we’re finally getting to the bottom of your motives here. 
    I’m not dissing Huawei, but for now, their success is mostly coming at the expense of other Android options and not much different than product launches like Motorola, Google, HTC, etc.

    the Apple (iOS) platform remains strong. 

    What I find particularly amusing is when you say, “ASP has NO bearing on what a company can produce or its ability to compete on all levels.”   Since ASP along with GM is fundamentally related to profit... what will you say next, that profit isn’t important either?

    on second thought, ignore my question since I now got you on “ignore”. 
    Before jumping in feet first (foolish at the best of times) please read what I wrote - but pay attention.

    1. Which bit didn't you understand?
    2. Why not back up what you say while pitting your argument against mine?

    Has not having a high ASP deterred Huawei from achieving anything I mentioned? 

    Conclusion?

    Did I say that profits weren't important? Not once

    Re-read what I wrote in the context I wrote it in.

    ASP does nothing much for the consumer and Huawei (and others!) have proven again and again that consumers can even benefit from a lower ASP directly.

    You get more out of a P20 Pro for hundreds of dollars less than an iPhone X.

    That's where the ASP is and consumers can easily live without it as long as the company is successful.


    edited August 1
  • Reply 112 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    iOS Apps are superior to Android because of this fact. Accessory makers don’t develop products for niche devices (Huawei flagships or any other flagship that sells in low volumes). They DO make a ridiculous amount of accessories for iPhones. The entire iOS ecosystem is superior because it’s comprised entirely of flagships with higher ASP.
    But yet with all this superiority you espouse the consumer chooses different devices (Samsung and Huawei) they find more desirable, i.e. cheaper phones with the same functionality.  Apple can have all the ASP in the world but in the end the majority are choosing others.
  • Reply 113 of 141
    IreneWIreneW Posts: 101member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    How stupid can you be?

    Developers go where the money is. iOS Apps are superior to Android app
    You and I have discussed this before, and as a developer I think I know how this works. Yes, there are more money in apps for iOS. No, the Android market is far to big to be ignored. No, any developer worth his salary would make sure an app works equally well on both platforms. Worst case, someone would use a compatibility framework that fails to capture the look and feel of one of the platforms, and in this case iOD tends to come out worst (aka Material guidelines)...

    Can you give any actual examples?
  • Reply 114 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    How stupid can you be?

    Developers go where the money is. iOS Apps are superior to Android because of this fact. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. Accessory makers don’t develop products for niche devices (Huawei flagships or any other flagship that sells in low volumes). They DO make a ridiculous amount of accessories for iPhones. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. The entire iOS ecosystem is superior because it’s comprised entirely of flagships with higher ASP.

    Do you understand basic math? Huawei’s low ASP is 100% proof that flagships make up a fraction of their total sales. This has been discussed countless times at AI, so don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. But for fun I’ll give you an example:

    1 - Huawei Flagship @ $800
    4 - Huawei Basic Phone @ $96.25

    Total: $1,185
    ASP: $237

    To hit their ASP they’d sell a single flagship for every four sub $100 phones. I stand by my claim that flagships make up a fraction of total sales. Feel free to come up with your own mix of devices and prices to hit a $237 ASP “and” show a large number of flagship sales. You didn’t last time I asked so I doubt you will this time.

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.
    Stupid?

    When you run out of valid discussion you can always rely on insults.

    You still haven't even begun to provide what I asked if you but let's take a few steps back.

    I replied to someone and you came charging in with your own absolute claims and adding for good measure that what I was saying we're outright lies!

    Wow! All guns blazing but shooting yourself in the foot all the way!

    You claimed that Huawei didn't sell 'lots of flagships' and instead of backing up your claims with links and numbers you demand that I dissprove you!

    If you are challenging what I said it is YOU who should be backing it up!

    Nevertheless I answered your claims and as is evident for the world to see, there was nothing false in them and not a single lie!

    I also asked YOU backup your claims but you haven't done that. You have not proven in any shape or form that Huawei doesn't ship lots of flagships. You are skirting what is required of you but I will indulge you on that too.

    You said:

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.

    Yes. Phone sales. That is where the 'lots of flagship sales' originated. Do you remember?

    I did not even bring ASP into this, I simply challenged it from a consumer perspective and you have done nothing to dent what I said. IreneW has given a more than appropriate reply to that but what I said remains as it is. The R&D bit had a direct connection with the ASP part, that is why it is there but I did not bring ASP into this, right?

    Now, if you want to tell me how the iPhone X stacks up against the P20 Pro, both objectively and subjectively, I will dig out all the links I have already given and discuss it with you. You decide.
    edited August 2
  • Reply 115 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,863member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    How stupid can you be?

    Developers go where the money is. iOS Apps are superior to Android because of this fact. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. Accessory makers don’t develop products for niche devices (Huawei flagships or any other flagship that sells in low volumes). They DO make a ridiculous amount of accessories for iPhones. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. The entire iOS ecosystem is superior because it’s comprised entirely of flagships with higher ASP.

    Do you understand basic math? Huawei’s low ASP is 100% proof that flagships make up a fraction of their total sales. This has been discussed countless times at AI, so don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. But for fun I’ll give you an example:

    1 - Huawei Flagship @ $800
    4 - Huawei Basic Phone @ $96.25

    Total: $1,185
    ASP: $237

    To hit their ASP they’d sell a single flagship for every four sub $100 phones. I stand by my claim that flagships make up a fraction of total sales. Feel free to come up with your own mix of devices and prices to hit a $237 ASP “and” show a large number of flagship sales. You didn’t last time I asked so I doubt you will this time.

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.
    Stupid?

    When you run out of valid discussion you can always rely on insults.

    You still haven't even begun to provide what I asked if you but let's take a few steps back.

    I replied to someone and you came charging in with your own absolute claims and adding for good measure that what I was saying we're outright lies!

    Wow! All guns blazing but shooting yourself in the foot all the way!

    You claimed that Huawei didn't sell 'lots of flagships' and instead of backing up your claims with links and numbers you demand that I dissprove you!

    If you are challenging what I said it is YOU who should be backing it up!

    Nevertheless I answered your claims and as is evident for the world to see, there was nothing false in them and not a single lie!

    I also asked YOU backup your claims but you haven't done that. You have not proven in any shape or form that Huawei doesn't ship lots of flagships. You are skirting what is required of you but I will indulge you on that too.

    You said:

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.

    Yes. Phone sales. That is where the 'lots of flagship sales' originated. Do you remember?

    I did not even bring ASP into this, I simply challenged it from a consumer perspective and you have done nothing to dent what I said. IreneW has given a more than appropriate reply to that but what I said remains as it is. The R&D bit had a direct connection with the ASP part, that is why it is there but I did not bring ASP into this, right?

    Now, if you want to tell me how the iPhone X stacks up against the P20 Pro, both objectively and subjectively, I will dig out all the links I have already given and discuss it with you. You decide.
    Nice word salad you made, but for my taste, I'd prefer more data, and less PR speak.

    It's nice that Huawei spends so much on R&D, but being as you stated that there is an enterprise, telecom, and handset component to Huawei's business, I'm not seeing it compare directly to Apple's R&D, which is notably distributed throughout it's entire ecosystem, in ways that most people aren't even aware of.

    If however, the bulk of Huawei's R&D is directed towards handsets, then it is ultimately going to be confronted by competitive response, and diffusion, which is taking Huawei's newest feature, and folding into a competitors products. You actually note that with the release of Samsung's new Tab, and I'll note Samsung's upcoming triple camera S10. Welcome to the treadmill!

    Of course, I've always believed that there is more to success than a checklist of hardware features that is your life blood; so far, I look to be correct.

    Can't wait until you give us all a personal review of that Mate X that you've been so fond of, while the rest of us Mac users look forward next year to a plethora of apps from the iOS side of things. Got to love that ecosystem!

    To misquote the A Team's Hannibal, "I just love how an ecosystem comes together".
  • Reply 116 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.

    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe

    My numbers come from Huawei's last earnings report. The ASP from that report is $237.

    As has been mentioned already, you're using a carefully worded press release about sales in a specific region to make a prediction about how a company is doing overall?


    To several people asking: Why does ASP matter?


    Why do you think the average iOS user is worth 4X as much to developers as the average Android user? Or why The App Store, with fewer downloads, generates 2X the revenues for developers than Google Play? The answer is simple: People who buy low-end devices don't spend money on Apps, subscriptions or anything from their respective ecosystem. This is why Huawei (or Samsung) could never generate the kinds of service revenues Apple does (if they ever decided to run their own services separate from Google). Buyers of flagships are not only valuable in regards to the initial sale of the device, but are far more valuable long term as a customer that will spend additional money on Apps and services. Flagship buyers also buy more accessories from third party companies (which is also why iOS users enjoy a far wider selection of products than any competitor could ever hope to). You ever walk into a Best Buy and see entire sections of Huawei cases? Nope. But you will see that for the iPhone.

    As I said, selling worthless low-end phones doesn't accomplish anything. It doesn't generate much in revenues (super slim margins and hundreds of competitors) and it does nothing to contribute to the ecosystem.
    You didn't back up your claims. I am waiting.

    Tell me - with the numbers to back it up - that Huawei doesn't sell 'a lot of flagships'.

    ASP

    You didn't tell me why higher ASP is good for consumers and we have literally come full circle so I will repeat myself:

    "The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits."



    How stupid can you be?

    Developers go where the money is. iOS Apps are superior to Android because of this fact. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. Accessory makers don’t develop products for niche devices (Huawei flagships or any other flagship that sells in low volumes). They DO make a ridiculous amount of accessories for iPhones. That’s a direct benefit to consumers. The entire iOS ecosystem is superior because it’s comprised entirely of flagships with higher ASP.

    Do you understand basic math? Huawei’s low ASP is 100% proof that flagships make up a fraction of their total sales. This has been discussed countless times at AI, so don’t pretend you don’t know what I’m talking about. But for fun I’ll give you an example:

    1 - Huawei Flagship @ $800
    4 - Huawei Basic Phone @ $96.25

    Total: $1,185
    ASP: $237

    To hit their ASP they’d sell a single flagship for every four sub $100 phones. I stand by my claim that flagships make up a fraction of total sales. Feel free to come up with your own mix of devices and prices to hit a $237 ASP “and” show a large number of flagship sales. You didn’t last time I asked so I doubt you will this time.

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.
    Stupid?

    When you run out of valid discussion you can always rely on insults.

    You still haven't even begun to provide what I asked if you but let's take a few steps back.

    I replied to someone and you came charging in with your own absolute claims and adding for good measure that what I was saying we're outright lies!

    Wow! All guns blazing but shooting yourself in the foot all the way!

    You claimed that Huawei didn't sell 'lots of flagships' and instead of backing up your claims with links and numbers you demand that I dissprove you!

    If you are challenging what I said it is YOU who should be backing it up!

    Nevertheless I answered your claims and as is evident for the world to see, there was nothing false in them and not a single lie!

    I also asked YOU backup your claims but you haven't done that. You have not proven in any shape or form that Huawei doesn't ship lots of flagships. You are skirting what is required of you but I will indulge you on that too.

    You said:

    Your chirping about R&D is pointless since this article is about phone sales. Who cares if Huawei invested more? Do you think that’s all going into phones? I hope not, given their current phones. That’s a horrible ROI.

    Yes. Phone sales. That is where the 'lots of flagship sales' originated. Do you remember?

    I did not even bring ASP into this, I simply challenged it from a consumer perspective and you have done nothing to dent what I said. IreneW has given a more than appropriate reply to that but what I said remains as it is. The R&D bit had a direct connection with the ASP part, that is why it is there but I did not bring ASP into this, right?

    Now, if you want to tell me how the iPhone X stacks up against the P20 Pro, both objectively and subjectively, I will dig out all the links I have already given and discuss it with you. You decide.
    Nice word salad you made, but for my taste, I'd prefer more data, and less PR speak.

    It's nice that Huawei spends so much on R&D, but being as you stated that there is an enterprise, telecom, and handset component to Huawei's business, I'm not seeing it compare directly to Apple's R&D, which is notably distributed throughout it's entire ecosystem, in ways that most people aren't even aware of.

    If however, the bulk of Huawei's R&D is directed towards handsets, then it is ultimately going to be confronted by competitive response, and diffusion, which is taking Huawei's newest feature, and folding into a competitors products. You actually note that with the release of Samsung's new Tab, and I'll note Samsung's upcoming triple camera S10. Welcome to the treadmill!

    Of course, I've always believed that there is more to success than a checklist of hardware features that is your life blood; so far, I look to be correct.

    Can't wait until you give us all a personal review of that Mate X that you've been so fond of, while the rest of us Mac users look forward next year to a plethora of apps from the iOS side of things. Got to love that ecosystem!

    To misquote the A Team's Hannibal, "I just love how an ecosystem comes together".
    I love my salads!

    As for data, I have given a ton of links whenever posse rides into a thread. LOL.

    Neither Huawei nor Apple breakdown their R&D But Huawei does provide a summary of R&D efforts in its annual report. I don't understand how you could see or not see that it compares directly to Apple but it's reasonable to think it gets spread throughout the business and that the results sometimes cross business divisions. Don't forget that the Consumer Business Group is relatively young and not historically a core business.

    Competitive response, diffusion and seeing features folded into competitors products is inevitable for some things. All manufacturers are on the treadmill, only Huawei has pulled out in front recently.

    Good luck to Samsung, Apple, Huawei, Oppo and everybody else. Competition is an absolute must. Apple is responding to competition on many fronts and in many ways against its DNA. The other day Tim Cook even slipped into the conference call that seeing iPhone sales shrink wouldn't worry him. What a takeaway! With 80% of the market at his disposal, he wouldn't be concerned if sales dipped. For context, I believe that was the first time he has gone on record so explicitly with that idea.

    I haven't had time to peruse all the info but one point that surprised me in the unit sales news was the claim that this was the first time Apple had been out of the top two in many years. Huawei knocked Apple out of second spot last year too. This situation was entirely expected and, bragging for the sake of bragging or not, Huawei really has its eye on the top spot. Apple had to be nudged out along the way. With Apple's annual refresh, it will reclaim the number two spot but the competition is there.

    "Of course, I've always believed that there is more to success than a checklist of hardware features that is your life blood; so far, I look to be correct."

    Make no mistake, that checklist of hardware features you refer is in every Apple move too. Specs are everything in this industry. Apple has even gone so far as to tell us about the machines it uses to make some things! 

    You 'look to be correct'? Are you referring to Huawei, ;-)

    You yourself just said that you are holding off upgrading until next year as you want a triple lens camera. You might get on this year so Christmas could come early. That would be one checkbox less.

    Since I switched, I have not noticed the 'ecosystem'. It really doesn't mean anything to me and clearly doesn't mean anything to the vast majority of users. I would prefer convergence of everything and that might happen one day.

    What is the Mate X? Mate 20 or MateBook X Pro or a completely new device?






  • Reply 117 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,863member
    Sorry. Huawei's branding is very confusing to me,

    I was speaking ot the MateBook X Pro, the one that you have been raving about.

    As for the diffusion, you are aware that since you haven't provided me with sales data for the P20 Pro, then neither of us knows how many units are sold, and that is the flagship with which Samsung will be competing with its S20 triple lens model. Maybe they both compete with the iPhone X, but at least we have a pretty good idea on how good iPhone X sales are:

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/05/05/apple-iphone-x-revenue-sales-q2-2018/

    https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2018/05/03/strategy-analytics-apple-iphone-x-becomes-world's-best-selling-smartphone-model-in-q1-2018#.WuyYS9OFPjA

    Here's some data; if you don't like the data that they provides, the provide your own.

    In the meantime, their is little evidence that the Huawei P20 Pro is selling anything close to that of the iPhone X, but again, please provide some real numbers.

    edited August 2
  • Reply 118 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    tmay said:
    Sorry. Huawei's branding is very confusing to me,

    I was speaking ot the MateBook X Pro, the one that you have been raving about.

    As for the diffusion, you are aware that since you haven't provided me with sales data for the P20 Pro, then neither of us knows how many units are sold, and that is the flagship with which Samsung will be competing with its S20 triple lens model. Maybe they both compete with the iPhone X, but at least we have a pretty good idea on how good iPhone X sales are:

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/05/05/apple-iphone-x-revenue-sales-q2-2018/

    https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2018/05/03/strategy-analytics-apple-iphone-x-becomes-world's-best-selling-smartphone-model-in-q1-2018#.WuyYS9OFPjA

    Here's some data; if you don't like the data that they provides, the provide your own.

    In the meantime, their is little evidence that the Huawei P20 Pro is selling anything close to that of the iPhone X, but again, please provide some real numbers.

    Didn't you see the numbers provided earlier in this thread? I wouldn't be surprised if you even quoted the entire thing at some point.

    How many iPhone X has Apple sold?

    Apple doesn't provide breakdowns. Links provide guesstimates. P20 series sales hit 6,000,000 in June. 

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/06/18/sales-huawei-p20-smartphone-triple-camera/

    Those numbers don't include P20 Lite sales (see link further up the thread). Combined sales of all three models are forecast (by Huawei) to reach 20 million.

    I understand, through an interview for which I don't have a link, that current P20 series sales (excellent Lite) are over 7,000,000.
    edited August 2
  • Reply 119 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 2,863member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Sorry. Huawei's branding is very confusing to me,

    I was speaking ot the MateBook X Pro, the one that you have been raving about.

    As for the diffusion, you are aware that since you haven't provided me with sales data for the P20 Pro, then neither of us knows how many units are sold, and that is the flagship with which Samsung will be competing with its S20 triple lens model. Maybe they both compete with the iPhone X, but at least we have a pretty good idea on how good iPhone X sales are:

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/05/05/apple-iphone-x-revenue-sales-q2-2018/

    https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2018/05/03/strategy-analytics-apple-iphone-x-becomes-world's-best-selling-smartphone-model-in-q1-2018#.WuyYS9OFPjA

    Here's some data; if you don't like the data that they provides, the provide your own.

    In the meantime, their is little evidence that the Huawei P20 Pro is selling anything close to that of the iPhone X, but again, please provide some real numbers.

    Didn't you see the numbers provided earlier in this thread? I wouldn't be surprised if you even quoted the entire thing at some point.

    How many iPhone X has Apple sold?

    Apple doesn't provide breakdowns. Links provide guesstimates. P20 series sales hit 6,000,000 in June. 

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/06/18/sales-huawei-p20-smartphone-triple-camera/

    Those numbers don't include P20 Lite sales (see link further up the thread). Combined sales of all three models are forecast (by Huawei) to reach 20 million.

    I understand, through an interview for which I don't have a link, that current P20 series sales (excellent Lite) are over 7,000,000.
    I provided the link to the 20 million P20 devices per year to you some time ago, but that isn't going to favor P20 Pro's, and since you don't have any data at all on P20 Pro sales, then even a guess at 10% would be 2 million a year. So do you think that 2 million a year sales in reasonable for the P20 Pro?

    The link that I had previously posted indicated 50 m X sold for the first two fiscal quarters, and even at 20% of unit sales, the X would have sold 8.5 million units in this last quarter. That's almost 58 million units for the year. not yet including the 4th quarter numbers. 

    Even if I just take a wild ass guess that it is 40 million iPhone X sales, that is still 20 times what the P20 Pro sells for the year.

    There isn't any question that the iPhone X is the most popular, single smartphone, in the world, by sales. Facts are like that.

    edited August 2
  • Reply 120 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,466member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    Sorry. Huawei's branding is very confusing to me,

    I was speaking ot the MateBook X Pro, the one that you have been raving about.

    As for the diffusion, you are aware that since you haven't provided me with sales data for the P20 Pro, then neither of us knows how many units are sold, and that is the flagship with which Samsung will be competing with its S20 triple lens model. Maybe they both compete with the iPhone X, but at least we have a pretty good idea on how good iPhone X sales are:

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/05/05/apple-iphone-x-revenue-sales-q2-2018/

    https://www.strategyanalytics.com/strategy-analytics/news/strategy-analytics-press-releases/strategy-analytics-press-release/2018/05/03/strategy-analytics-apple-iphone-x-becomes-world's-best-selling-smartphone-model-in-q1-2018#.WuyYS9OFPjA

    Here's some data; if you don't like the data that they provides, the provide your own.

    In the meantime, their is little evidence that the Huawei P20 Pro is selling anything close to that of the iPhone X, but again, please provide some real numbers.

    Didn't you see the numbers provided earlier in this thread? I wouldn't be surprised if you even quoted the entire thing at some point.

    How many iPhone X has Apple sold?

    Apple doesn't provide breakdowns. Links provide guesstimates. P20 series sales hit 6,000,000 in June. 

    https://dazeinfo.com/2018/06/18/sales-huawei-p20-smartphone-triple-camera/

    Those numbers don't include P20 Lite sales (see link further up the thread). Combined sales of all three models are forecast (by Huawei) to reach 20 million.

    I understand, through an interview for which I don't have a link, that current P20 series sales (excellent Lite) are over 7,000,000.
    I provided the link to the 20 million P20 devices per year to you some time ago, but that isn't going to favor P20 Pro's, and since you don't have any data at all on P20 Pro sales, then even a guess at 10% would be 2 million a year. So do you think that 2 million a year sales in reasonable for the P20 Pro?

    The link that I had previously posted indicated 50 m X sold for the first two fiscal quarters, and even at 20% of unit sales, the X would have sold 8.5 million units in this last quarter. That's almost 58 million units for the year. not yet including the 4th quarter numbers. 

    Even if I just take a wild ass guess that it is 40 million iPhone X sales, that is still 20 times what the P20 Pro sells for the year.

    The only data that is available is the data I have provided. May I ask why it is relevant?

    Apple released three phones last year. Huawei has released countless. Logically if you break sales down by model, per model each one takes up its part of the pie and the fewer models you have, the larger the slices could be.

    As you know, Huawei just hit an all time high for the Chinese market but IIRC only had one model in the top five sellers.

    But all that has nothing to do with what is being commented in this part of the thread.

    Here, the affirmation was that Huawei doesn't sell a lot of flagships. That claim has been put to rest. As has the claim that ASP is relevant to consumers.


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