Huawei surpasses Apple as world's No. 2 smartphone vendor

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,891member
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 82 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well 
    Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
  • Reply 83 of 141
    LOL. Who cares about units shipped? Down that road lies ruin.
    You seem to be arrognat and uninformed. Outside US Apple does not dominate at all. In fact Apple iPhoone is marginal even in Europe where Huawei starts dominating market. Yep. Nokia way, but not neccessarily for Huwaei this time. Stiock out your nose outside your local yard.
  • Reply 84 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.
    edited August 1
  • Reply 85 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.

    Nice spin. What it shows is that Huawei and Samsung are failing to attract the much more lucrative flagship market. They are like McDonalds. Selling high volumes of basically worthless products. Nobody trades up from a low-end phone to a flagship, so neither Huawei or Samsung are converting any of those buyers into more valuable customers or finding a way to generate additional revenue from their sales (like Apple does with The App Store, iCloud, Apple Music and so on).
    tmay
  • Reply 86 of 141
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,474member
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    I’m not doubting that these Chinese vendors sell more at the low end but where did you get the ASP figure?  Does Huawei release that publicly? Also why does it matter? Every quarter services become a greater and greater portion of Apple’s revenue. Once they start offering subscriptions for original TV content, news & magazines what’s going to matter more: iPhone ASP or the number of people who own an Apple device able to stream/accent content? Someone who owns an iPhone SE can subscribe to Apple Music the same as someone who owns a $999 iPhone X.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 87 of 141
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,469member
    No mention in this article of actual revenue let alone profit. We all know Samsung outsells everyone else by sheer units shipped but its profitability on those sales compared to Apple is pitiful. Same goes for Huawei. I know which I'd prefer "bragging rights" to!
    Samsung’s operating profit this past quarter was $13.3 billion.
    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/30/17633350/samsung-earnings-q2-2018-galaxy-s9-sales

    Apple’s was $12.6 billion. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q3FY18ConsolidatedFinancialStatements.pdf

    Of course not all of Samsung’s profit comes from smartphones but then neither does Apple's.
    Apples weakest quarter of the year vs Samsung’s strongest...
  • Reply 88 of 141
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.

    Nice spin. What it shows is that Huawei and Samsung are failing to attract the much more lucrative flagship market. They are like McDonalds. Selling high volumes of basically worthless products. Nobody trades up from a low-end phone to a flagship, so neither Huawei or Samsung are converting any of those buyers into more valuable customers or finding a way to generate additional revenue from their sales (like Apple does with The App Store, iCloud, Apple Music and so on).
    At the end of the day the market shows us the majority of sales are not in flagship phones, that the majority of customers are not interested in them or using additional services associated with them.  That's why Samsung and Huawei are number one and two.  You're arguing that these companies are failing to attract customers to an undesirable market segment, when in fact they are dominating the most desirable segment.
    edited August 1
  • Reply 89 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,891member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe
  • Reply 90 of 141
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 56member
    elijahg said:
    rob53 said:
    elijahg said:
    What's the ASP of Hwoowuh phones? Less than half the iPhone's no doubt. Last thing I'd want is a phone that's full of Chinese spyware. Possibly even worse than NSA spyware.

    Cook claiming the smartphone market is "very healthy" is probably true, mainly due to people breaking their phones and getting new replacements, and phones getting old and slow, but the number upgrading for features has certainly reduced. That and the saturation of the market means little growth. I have a 6s and it's still fast and perfectly adequate for fairly heavy daily use. I have no real reason to upgrade.
    Glad you’re happy with an older phone but I upgraded to an 8 plus and love it, especially the 2x lens. 
    If the X hadn't been so outrageously priced, I probably would have got one, if anything just for the celebration of 10 years of iPhone! I'd upgraded about every 2 years since the original was released; I had the "2G", 3G, 4, 5s and 6s. I would definitely like to upgrade, but I'm not sure it's worth it yet based on features vs cost. Maybe the 9? 11? will take my fancy!
    Pricing did not have any effect on it being the #1 selling iPhone since being released.
  • Reply 91 of 141
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 6,521member
    lkrupp said:
    Threads like this are hilarious. All the trolls come out of the woodwork to explain why Apple is actually failing. The usual shipped vs sold argument is regurgitated every time. After every financial report comes a comment thread like this one. Why can’t you guys accept the fact that Apple is a wildly successful company that makes products people love to buy and use? Enough with the “overpriced” bullshit, enough with the “Jobs is dead” crap, enough with the stagnation, innovation, QA horse manure. Just learn to live with the fact that Apple is a well run, profitable company who’s customer satisfaction statistics are the envy of the business world. There has never been a company like Apple and we should be enjoying it while it lasts. I know I am and if I thought like some of you I would have switched platforms years ago.
    You seem to be confusing disagreement about posted comments with a dislike for Apple.  That's not true in most cases.  In most cases it's a refutation of "facts" presented.  Apple's success is undeniable.  That success however does not give license to certain fans to push false info.  The criticism isn't criticism of Apple.  It's criticism of the content of the comment.  Liking Apple does not give one free reign to just make up stuff.   There are some who hate Apple and see no right, just like there are some who love Apple and see no wrong.  It's up to you to discern genuine criticism from fanboy hate/love.  It's also up to you to recognize the difference between criticism of a comment and criticism of Apple.  They aren't necessarily the same thing.  

    I do agree with you on one thing though.  The sold vs shipped issue was settled a long time ago.  Not sure how people still push that narrative.
    Not confused. What I am referring to are the users and trolls who fly off the handle when Apple does something they don’t like, be it headphone jack, notch, bezel, magsafe or ports. I know their pain because I was one of them years ago when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel. I had swallowed the cisc vs risc argument hook, line and sinker, that slower was actually faster. I had numerous posts deleted on the Apple discussion forums over my rage. A few years later it meant nothing and I learned a lesson. When Apple does something I don’t like I try to accept it for what it is and why they might have done it. I don’t go postal and start predicting, hoping, even advocating for Apple to fail like so many do here. I have also learned that nothing, zilch, nada is accomplished on tech blog forums. There are no reasoned discussions, no back and forth, no debates. It’s just anonymous posts going past each other in the digital swamp. Personal opinions are presented as indisputable facts. Studies and surveys are twisted and spun to conform to personal biases. Disagreement spouted for the sole sake of contrariness (I had an uncle like that). AI is about the only tech blog I comment on these days. Places like MacRumors and 9to5Mac are horrendous hell holes and have been for years now, completely dominated by negativity, venom, and bile. And you know why? Because the posters there cannot abide, let alone understand why Apple is as successful as they are.
    edited August 1
  • Reply 92 of 141
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,474member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.

    Nice spin. What it shows is that Huawei and Samsung are failing to attract the much more lucrative flagship market. They are like McDonalds. Selling high volumes of basically worthless products. Nobody trades up from a low-end phone to a flagship, so neither Huawei or Samsung are converting any of those buyers into more valuable customers or finding a way to generate additional revenue from their sales (like Apple does with The App Store, iCloud, Apple Music and so on).
    So the iPhone SE is a worthless product? And the $329 iPad? Only people who spend $800-$1000+ on a smartphone are worthwhile or generate additional revenue? iOS install base is over 1B. Services revenues, which accounted for 18% of Apple’s revenue this quarter was up 31% YOY. I’m sure Apple wants to grow the install base as well as services revenue (which has higher margins than hardware). As an AAPL shareholder I care more about that than bragging rights on iPhone ASP. After Apple plays the larger iPhone X card where is the iPhone revenue growth going to come from? Do you think they can just keep raising iPhone prices indefinitely?
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 93 of 141
    flaneurflaneur Posts: 4,471member
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    Threads like this are hilarious. All the trolls come out of the woodwork to explain why Apple is actually failing. The usual shipped vs sold argument is regurgitated every time. After every financial report comes a comment thread like this one. Why can’t you guys accept the fact that Apple is a wildly successful company that makes products people love to buy and use? Enough with the “overpriced” bullshit, enough with the “Jobs is dead” crap, enough with the stagnation, innovation, QA horse manure. Just learn to live with the fact that Apple is a well run, profitable company who’s customer satisfaction statistics are the envy of the business world. There has never been a company like Apple and we should be enjoying it while it lasts. I know I am and if I thought like some of you I would have switched platforms years ago.
    You seem to be confusing disagreement about posted comments with a dislike for Apple.  That's not true in most cases.  In most cases it's a refutation of "facts" presented.  Apple's success is undeniable.  That success however does not give license to certain fans to push false info.  The criticism isn't criticism of Apple.  It's criticism of the content of the comment.  Liking Apple does not give one free reign to just make up stuff.   There are some who hate Apple and see no right, just like there are some who love Apple and see no wrong.  It's up to you to discern genuine criticism from fanboy hate/love.  It's also up to you to recognize the difference between criticism of a comment and criticism of Apple.  They aren't necessarily the same thing.  

    I do agree with you on one thing though.  The sold vs shipped issue was settled a long time ago.  Not sure how people still push that narrative.
    Not confused. What I am referring to are the users and trolls who fly off the handle when Apple does something they don’t like, be it headphone jack, notch, bezel, magsafe or ports. I know their pain because I was one of them years ago when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel. I had swallowed the cisc vs risc argument hook, line and sinker, that slower was actually faster. I had numerous posts deleted on the Apple discussion forums over my rage. A few years later it meant nothing and I learned a lesson. When Apple does something I don’t like I try to accept it for what it is and why they might have done it. I don’t go postal and start predicting, hoping, even advocating for Apple to fail like so many do here. I have also learned that nothing, zilch, nada is accomplished on tech blog forums. There are no reasoned discussions, no back and forth, no debates. It’s just anonymous posts going past each other in the digital swamp. Personal opinions are presented as indisputable facts. Studies and surveys are twisted and spun to conform to personal biases. Disagreement spouted for the sole sake of contrariness (I had an uncle like that). AI is about the only tech blog I comment on these days. Places like MacRumors and 9to5Mac are horrendous hell holes and have been for years now, completely dominated by negativity, venom, and bile. And you know why? Because the posters there cannot abide, let alone understand why Apple is as successful as they are.
    Nice summary rant. Really.
  • Reply 94 of 141
    No mention in this article of actual revenue let alone profit. We all know Samsung outsells everyone else by sheer units shipped but its profitability on those sales compared to Apple is pitiful. Same goes for Huawei. I know which I'd prefer "bragging rights" to!
    Samsung’s operating profit this past quarter was $13.3 billion.
    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/30/17633350/samsung-earnings-q2-2018-galaxy-s9-sales

    Apple’s was $12.6 billion. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q3FY18ConsolidatedFinancialStatements.pdf

    Of course not all of Samsung’s profit comes from smartphones but then neither does Apple's.
    Samsung’s phone profits sucked this quarter. They made most of their money from semiconductors. 
  • Reply 95 of 141
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,243member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe
    Dude;

    Something other than the equivalent of a Huawei press release would be nice;

    "Orders for the P20 Pro have been open for just about four weeks, and during that time, Huawei reports that sales are already 316% higher than what it saw last year with the P10 Plus. As such, the P20 Pro is now Huawei's best-selling phone that's ever been sold in Western Europe.

    Additionally, Huawei further reports that the majority of sales for its entire P20 series (including the P20, P20 Pro, and P20 Lite) came from the United Kingdom, Germany, and France, with Google Trends showing that "the Huawei P20 Series has also been one of the hottest search queries in Western Europe" – specifically in Spain, Italy, and German."

    What the hell does any of that actually mean?

    Being Huawei's best seller in Europe says diddly squat about how many they actually sell.

    I've read that Huawei expects to sell 20 M a year of all models of P20, most of those being the cheaper Lites.

    Show some actual sales data.

    For a fact, ASP is relevant to device makers.

    EDIT:

    The only "data" that I found;

    https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/huawei/144828-huawei-announces-6-million-p20-smartphones-sold-what-s-all-the-fuss-about

    Sales from March 27 to June 13; about 2 1/2 months. 
    edited August 1
  • Reply 96 of 141
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    Threads like this are hilarious. All the trolls come out of the woodwork to explain why Apple is actually failing. The usual shipped vs sold argument is regurgitated every time. After every financial report comes a comment thread like this one. Why can’t you guys accept the fact that Apple is a wildly successful company that makes products people love to buy and use? Enough with the “overpriced” bullshit, enough with the “Jobs is dead” crap, enough with the stagnation, innovation, QA horse manure. Just learn to live with the fact that Apple is a well run, profitable company who’s customer satisfaction statistics are the envy of the business world. There has never been a company like Apple and we should be enjoying it while it lasts. I know I am and if I thought like some of you I would have switched platforms years ago.
    You seem to be confusing disagreement about posted comments with a dislike for Apple.  That's not true in most cases.  In most cases it's a refutation of "facts" presented.  Apple's success is undeniable.  That success however does not give license to certain fans to push false info.  The criticism isn't criticism of Apple.  It's criticism of the content of the comment.  Liking Apple does not give one free reign to just make up stuff.   There are some who hate Apple and see no right, just like there are some who love Apple and see no wrong.  It's up to you to discern genuine criticism from fanboy hate/love.  It's also up to you to recognize the difference between criticism of a comment and criticism of Apple.  They aren't necessarily the same thing.  

    I do agree with you on one thing though.  The sold vs shipped issue was settled a long time ago.  Not sure how people still push that narrative.
    Not confused. What I am referring to are the users and trolls who fly off the handle when Apple does something they don’t like, be it headphone jack, notch, bezel, magsafe or ports. I know their pain because I was one of them years ago when Apple switched from PowerPC to Intel. I had swallowed the cisc vs risc argument hook, line and sinker, that slower was actually faster. I had numerous posts deleted on the Apple discussion forums over my rage. A few years later it meant nothing and I learned a lesson. When Apple does something I don’t like I try to accept it for what it is and why they might have done it. I don’t go postal and start predicting, hoping, even advocating for Apple to fail like so many do here. I have also learned that nothing, zilch, nada is accomplished on tech blog forums. There are no reasoned discussions, no back and forth, no debates. It’s just anonymous posts going past each other in the digital swamp. Personal opinions are presented as indisputable facts. Studies and surveys are twisted and spun to conform to personal biases. Disagreement spouted for the sole sake of contrariness (I had an uncle like that). AI is about the only tech blog I comment on these days. Places like MacRumors and 9to5Mac are horrendous hell holes and have been for years now, completely dominated by negativity, venom, and bile. And you know why? Because the posters there cannot abide, let alone understand why Apple is as successful as they are.
    Whoa, that's a lot to unpack.  Glad you got over rage.  That can be unproductive.  It's also good you understand tech forums (forums in general) are not meant for accomplishing anything.  They're simply for exchanging ideas.  Some positive, some negative, most somewhere in between.  It's interesting that you find respite on AI.  Across the interwebs, AI has the reputation of being a sycophantic echo chamber, where the slightest hint of criticism of Apple ignites a firestorm of hater, paid troll, and other invectives.  It's the primary reason I don't post here a lot.  Say if someone says "Apple sold more phones than any company this quarter" and another poster correctly states "No they didn't, they sold the 3rd most".  Typically what you get is "OMG dude hates Apple and is jealous of their success".  Nothing in that exchange is about hating Apple, it's about the bad info presented by the forum member.   There are a few members here who only seem to have two modes, PRAISE and ATTACK.  I try to avoid interactions with 'em.  Thus far, my time on AI has proven more fruitful because of it.  Maybe you could try the same with those on the opposite extreme.  There are a ton of people on this site who display an ability to recognize Apple's achievements while maintaining an ability to constructively criticize things that need criticizing.  If a person can only acknowledge the good or only acknowledge the bad, they are just opposite sides of the same coin.  Equally undesirable imo.  
    muthuk_vanalingamgatorguy
  • Reply 97 of 141
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 3,474member
    No mention in this article of actual revenue let alone profit. We all know Samsung outsells everyone else by sheer units shipped but its profitability on those sales compared to Apple is pitiful. Same goes for Huawei. I know which I'd prefer "bragging rights" to!
    Samsung’s operating profit this past quarter was $13.3 billion.
    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/7/30/17633350/samsung-earnings-q2-2018-galaxy-s9-sales

    Apple’s was $12.6 billion. https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q3FY18ConsolidatedFinancialStatements.pdf

    Of course not all of Samsung’s profit comes from smartphones but then neither does Apple's.
    Samsung’s phone profits sucked this quarter. They made most of their money from semiconductors. 
    Does Samsung provide profits by product? Apple doesn’t.
  • Reply 98 of 141
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 2,891member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Sorry, not going to accept anything from you since it's all lies and spin.

    ASP is absolutely relevant as it shows the market the devices are being sold to. Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.

    Better phones than Apple. More lies.

    They sell a lot of flagships? No they don't. Math doesn't lie. Curious why you haven't attempted to produce some actual numbers for their flagship sales. Because you know you'll get called on it and proven wrong. So you stick to implying they sold a lot without actually backing up your claims.

    What are you afraid of? Give us some numbers. Surely you have access to them since you've been filling this thread with all sorts of other figures about how well Huawei is doing. Don't you have their sales numbers as well? Didn't Huawei provide you with that information in their PR package?
    Afraid? Numbers?

    Believe me I am not afraid of being asked to back up what I say. I have done that constantly and you are asking for links that I have already given - many times.

    However, I will indulge you later.

    In the meantime, how about I ask you to back up what you say?

    I will dig out the info you are seeking but while I do that (I have to work now) please dump some links on me that support your argument.

    Here's a teaser:

    https://www.androidcentral.com/p20-pro-already-huaweis-best-selling-flagship-western-europe
    Dude;

    Something other than the equivalent of a Huawei press release would be nice;

    "Orders for the P20 Pro have been open for just about four weeks, and during that time, Huawei reports that sales are already 316% higher than what it saw last year with the P10 Plus. As such, the P20 Pro is now Huawei's best-selling phone that's ever been sold in Western Europe.

    Additionally, Huawei further reports that the majority of sales for its entire P20 series (including the P20, P20 Pro, and P20 Lite) came from the United Kingdom, Germany, and France, with Google Trends showing that "the Huawei P20 Series has also been one of the hottest search queries in Western Europe" – specifically in Spain, Italy, and German."

    What the hell does any of that actually mean?

    Being Huawei's best seller in Europe says diddly squat about how many they actually sell.

    I've read that Huawei expects to sell 20 M a year of all models of P20, most of those being the cheaper Lites.

    Show some actual sales data.

    For a fact, ASP is relevant to device makers.

    EDIT:

    The only "data" that I found;

    https://www.pocket-lint.com/phones/news/huawei/144828-huawei-announces-6-million-p20-smartphones-sold-what-s-all-the-fuss-about

    Sales from March 27 to June 13; about 2 1/2 months. 
    Dude, there is no truer words than that of the manufacturer.

    I was going to fish the 6 million out later plus the four million Honor 10. 

    If course, the task was an easy one. Here is what he said:

    "But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't."

    When you count in the millions, that is, in anybody's book, 'a lot'.

    And if they had complete access to the US market, flagship numbers would be even higher.


    edited August 1
  • Reply 99 of 141
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 320member
    rob53 said:
    elijahg said:
    What's the ASP of Hwoowuh phones? Less than half the iPhone's no doubt. Last thing I'd want is a phone that's full of Chinese spyware. Possibly even worse than NSA spyware.

    Cook claiming the smartphone market is "very healthy" is probably true, mainly due to people breaking their phones and getting new replacements, and phones getting old and slow, but the number upgrading for features has certainly reduced. That and the saturation of the market means little growth. I have a 6s and it's still fast and perfectly adequate for fairly heavy daily use. I have no real reason to upgrade.
    Glad you’re happy with an older phone but I upgraded to an 8 plus and love it, especially the 2x lens. 
    That's the only thing that is tempting me about the newer iPhones. I have an SE and am doing more and more photography with it. We didn't even take a camera on our trip across country to see relatives last week. The camera is great, but you know a little magnification would be nice sometimes. Yes you can do digital zoom but that quickly degrades the picture quality. That's why on our trip this fall I'm taking my phone and my old Canon digital. It's a beast but it has a 20x optical zoom. When I replace the SE in another year or two I think I'll splurge for one that has some magnification ability.
  • Reply 100 of 141
    DAalsethDAalseth Posts: 320member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    It's also worth noting this from IDC:

    "Huawei's P20/P20 Pro series found strong demand in the $600-$800 price segment"

    Some people swear that Huawei only makes low cost handsets while ignoring the fact that it produces phones double the price of the iPhone X and it is selling more phones in the mid to high price bands than ever. Breaking records in the process.



    Irrelevant that they sold phones in the $600-800 segment. Do you know what their ASP is? Ironically, it's about the same as Samsung (low to mid $200 range). Which means that the vast majority of devices they sell are under $100, and their flagships only make up a small percentage of total sales.

    But go ahead and keep implying that they sell a lot of flagships. They don't.
    ASP is only relevant to shareholders.

    Please try to accept that.

    The fact that Huawei has a lower ASP has not stopped them from investing more than Apple in R&D, being one of the most vertically integrated companies in its field, selling more handsets than Apple nor producing better phones than Apple - while turning in billions in profits. 

    I don't need to imply they sell a lot of flagships. It's in their statements and in the articles that this AI is referring to. 

    You can believe it or not but I don't have to imply anything.

    Huawei is still a low-end phone manufacturer that sells 3-4 sub $100 phones for every flagship they sell. Just like Samsung. Which means their position at Number 2 for total sales is meaningless as it's the classic example of comparing Apples to Oranges. Remove the low-end devices and Huawei would be lucky to have sold 10 million flagships last quarter. Which puts them so far behind Apple it's not even funny.
    What this shows you is the majority of consumers want low to mid range affordable phones and not expensive flagships.  Huawei and Samsung are reading the market, catering to the majority consumer and benefiting from such a strategy, reaching first and second smartphone vendor positions.
    A: The way I read it Huawei is mostly eating into Samsung Sales. They are not impacting Apple who's numbers went up.
    B: There's room for multiple tiers in any mature marketplace. There are Chevy's and Mercedes. Just because GM sells numerically more Chevys than Mercedes doesn't mean that GMs strategy is better or that Mercedes is in trouble. They are going after different markets. They really aren;t even comparable. Some people want a Cessna Jet, some want an Ultralight. They aren't competing. Some people want clothes off of the Walmart rack, some go for a Brooks Brothers suit. They aren't competing. Yes there will always be a market for $100 phones, just as there is a market for $200 laptops, and $79 tablets. That isn't Apple's market. 
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