Apple and the aggressive rollout of its iPhone XS vision for the future

2

Comments

  • Reply 21 of 42
    For all the sniping and complaining, lost is one simple fact -- it's a market economy.

    "Value" is something I define differently than (say) lewchenko. He might not see the value of an iPhone X or XS or XR, but I do. Which of us is right? We both are -- for ourselves. In a market economy, I'm free to spend a princely sum for something I value, and lewchenko is free to walk away from the same deal. We both think of ourselves as being the savvy one. We're both right.

    I think this is Mr. Dilger's main point. In a market economy, Apple bet heavily that many people would see the value of the X -- what it was, what it could do, how long it would be current, and what the value was to THEM. They indeed bought and Apple has been handsomely rewarded. Lewchenko doesn't have to buy, and Apple doesn't miss the loss of a sale to him; it's sold a couple hundred million iPhones last year, the majority of which were the X. That's a couple hundred million people who could have bought a cheaper iPhone 8, or a much cheaper iPhone 7, or a really cheap SE, or a similarly priced Samsung, or some flavor of cheap, cheap, cheap Android phone, or a throw-away feature phone, or NO PHONE AT ALL. But they bought an X. Who was right? They all were -- for them.

    Can Apple continue to do this? Beats me. But the success to date suggests that I won't be betting against them for a few years.

    king editor the gratetmaybrucemcwatto_cobra
  • Reply 22 of 42
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I Totally agree, yes I could afford it too but these prices are just too much to swallow so I choose not to pay. I would still be on two yearly cycle if  they hadn’t gone so crazy with prices. I used to feel I was making a pragmatic choice for paying for quality but now I feel like Apple is just rubbing our noses in it. “Hey, let’s see if they’ll pay this..... holy shit! They did!”

    Hey, it’s supply and demand, and the price is set by what the market will bare but I reached my limit last year with the X.

    if the XR had 3D Touch, I’d be all over a 128g. I just keep rollin with my 6 for now.
  • Reply 23 of 42
    kitatit said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I Totally agree, yes I could afford it too but these prices are just too much to swallow so I choose not to pay. I would still be on two yearly cycle if  they hadn’t gone so crazy with prices. I used to feel I was making a pragmatic choice for paying for quality but now I feel like Apple is just rubbing our noses in it. “Hey, let’s see if they’ll pay this..... holy shit! They did!”

    Hey, it’s supply and demand, and the price is set by what the market will bare but I reached my limit last year with the X.

    if the XR had 3D Touch, I’d be all over a 128g. I just keep rollin with my 6 for now.
    Or you could go for an 8 Plus.  Still a great iPhone.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 42
    kitatit said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I Totally agree, yes I could afford it too but these prices are just too much to swallow so I choose not to pay. I would still be on two yearly cycle if  they hadn’t gone so crazy with prices. I used to feel I was making a pragmatic choice for paying for quality but now I feel like Apple is just rubbing our noses in it. “Hey, let’s see if they’ll pay this..... holy shit! They did!”

    Hey, it’s supply and demand, and the price is set by what the market will bare but I reached my limit last year with the X.

    if the XR had 3D Touch, I’d be all over a 128g. I just keep rollin with my 6 for now.
    If you managed to live with the 6 until today, then the XS, even the XR is very luxurious for you. You'd do with an 8 as well. A11 Bionic is a platform jump, just like the jump to 64 bit with the A7, A12 is just an incremental upgrade. With the 8 you jump to the same platform as the Xx series.
    edited September 13 watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 42
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,730member
    SpamSandwich said:
    I’m betting you’re actually lying and can’t afford it. If you could, there would be no need for the pointless sniping.
    I think he can probably afford it. Just about any professional employed person on this forum can afford it. They probably have a house, a car, wife, kids, etc. When you consider that with Apple's payment plans it is only around $60 USD a month for 24 months and ultimately you could resell it after that for a pretty good value, it is very affordable. It is just another monthly expense. If you still think it is too pricey, just stop treating yourself to other trivial luxuries like going to Starbucks everyday.
    muthuk_vanalingamradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 42
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I don't think this is comparing apples to apples (no pun intended). When they skipped ahead last year to introduce the X out of order, I feel they were essentially starting a new product line, while the 8 carries on the development and pricing structure from the previous phones (5, 6, 7). This year, the XS and Max carry on the pricing structure of the X while the XR steps in to carry on from the 8. When you compare those prices they are much more similar. In fact if you look back to iPhone 5 you were paying $649 for the entry level which only had 16gb. The equivalent pricing to the entry level XR, $750, only had 32gb while the XR has 64gb. You reference the price changes in the last two years, but again if you're comparing to the XR, which I think we should be in this case, you've got the 7 and 8 initial pricing at $649 for 32gb and $699 for 64gb respectively. So from the 8 to the XR we have only a $50 increase for the same capacity, but you're actually getting a screen size bigger than the 8+ (which cost $799 when introduced). Comparing to your current 7+ 128gb you should be looking at the XR where you'd get the expected tech improvements for a two generation leap in an iPhone series AND a bigger screen (in a smaller overall package than the 7+) at only $799 for the 128gb (at launch in the US the 7+ 128 was $869). Again the XR is the successor to the 8, and the XS is a premium line asking a higher price.
    All in all it's too rich for my blood. That's to say I just can't afford it, not that it's out of line with their pricing over the past years. Things are different now. I got my first iPhone at the 5 and paid $200 on contract with Verizon. Contracts were still the thing two years later and I sold my 5 for a good price so I could pay $200 for the 6 (so almost even trade). Within the next couple of years the trend changed and contracts and subsidies waned. So I wasn't going to upgrade since I was still happy with the 6 and would be saving money on the monthly payments after switching away from the contract plan and keeping my paid off phone. However, Verizon offered a deal which basically amounted to giving me a full price trade in for my 6 to upgrade to the 7, so I said sure why not. I don't foresee deals like that coming down the line this time so I'll ride the 7 for a while longer. Honestly I'd like to downsize. I've had the 6 and then 7 for four years and I find myself missing the smaller size. Don't feel like going through the trouble of switching to an SE (and giving up just a little bit of feature parity), so we'll see. If they do come around and introduce a new smaller phone sometime in the next year I'll probably switch, but otherwise I'll hang on to the 7 until it's hurting and then switch to whatever suits me best at that time.
    radarthekat
  • Reply 27 of 42
    lewchenko said:
    I guess if you take depreciation into account the value proposition is less of an issue if you get a significant portion back.

    And I accept people's points that value is relative (both time wise and for each person)

    I guess I'm struggling to justify why £1249 is genuinely worth it.(to me) 

    The wife says I should buy it since I'm always on my phone lol. 
    Still, £1249 ! (XS Max 256). My last iPhone was the 7 Plus. I think it was 819. 

    That's a hell of a mark up.   
    A few things.

    It seems like outside the U.S., the prices seem much higher compared with prior years. Part of that is inflation (everything costs more than it did a few years ago), and the other is a strong US Dollar. Adjusted for exchange, it's not as big of a difference.

    Second, Apple still sells a model that's more comparable to the 7 Plus: the XR. A better comparison would be comparing it to that, not a phone with a bigger screen and more storage. 

    Third, if you look past the purchase price, what is your cost of ownership each month? Here we can do an installment plan split over 24 months, interest free. It's like $45/mo USD. People spend far more on coffee each month. And that's not figuring keeping your phone longer. Many on the forums mention they have phones going on 3-4 years old. What's the cost of ownership then? Plus figure even after 4 years, your phone still has value that you can recoup. 

    Over 2-4 years, how much is a few hundred dollars extra, especially when you can sell it when you're done with it?
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 42
    The reporting of the Wall Street JournalNikkei, and Bloomberg can no longer be trusted to be accurate, impartial and honest, particularly when they attack Apple... 

    Add the BBC to that list - like everywhere else they have devolved into clickbait farmers. Their reporting on Apple has long since abandoned any pretence at journalism and balance - see 
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45493266 for a recent example...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 42
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,208member
    kitatit said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I Totally agree, yes I could afford it too but these prices are just too much to swallow so I choose not to pay. I would still be on two yearly cycle if  they hadn’t gone so crazy with prices. I used to feel I was making a pragmatic choice for paying for quality but now I feel like Apple is just rubbing our noses in it. “Hey, let’s see if they’ll pay this..... holy shit! They did!”

    Hey, it’s supply and demand, and the price is set by what the market will bare but I reached my limit last year with the X.

    if the XR had 3D Touch, I’d be all over a 128g. I just keep rollin with my 6 for now.
    Persons who have tried it, think that haptic feedback isn't all that different in use from 3D Touch.
    radarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 42
    lewchenko said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I’m betting you’re actually lying and can’t afford it. If you could, there would be no need for the pointless sniping.

    The sniping is justified. 
    And I don't really care whether you believe me or not.
    It's about value. And the value proposition just isn't here. Looking at the feedback in all the chat threads since the event, I'm very much not alone.

    People (even those with money who could buy this phone) recognise this as nothing more than Apple being greedy and being  taken for a ride. 

    Only those with more money than sense will blindly hand it over without questioning the value. 
    The price points may not work for you, but to act as thought the prices are above the technology being offered?? I have to disagree.  I am all about value, but what is or isn't of value changes dramatically from person to person. 

    I don't see the value in a $400.00 pair of sneakers or buying expensive coffee every day for work when I can make my own , but I don't consider those folks that do as having more money than sense. People just have different priorities and I respect that.




    king editor the grateradarthekatwatto_cobra
  • Reply 31 of 42
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,730member
    tmay said:
    Persons who have tried it, think that haptic feedback isn't all that different in use from 3D Touch.
    I haven't used 3D touch or haptic feedback but thought that 3D Touch could activate an additional menu or feature to choose where as haptic feed back just provided a sensation of movement like typing on a keyboard.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 42
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,208member
    volcan said:
    tmay said:
    Persons who have tried it, think that haptic feedback isn't all that different in use from 3D Touch.
    I haven't used 3D touch or haptic feedback but thought that 3D Touch could activate an additional menu or feature to choose where as haptic feed back just provided a sensation of movement like typing on a keyboard.
    I'm referring to a single comment the yesterday's event, that I read somewhere. I have no personal experience with the haptic feedback, so it would be useful to inquire of someone like Rene Richie.

    Naturally, this popped up on theverge;

    https://www.theverge.com/circuitbreaker/2018/9/13/17854864/iphone-xs-max-3d-touch-waste-features-apple
    edited September 13 watto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 42
    radarthekatradarthekat Posts: 2,673moderator
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    Your comparison (bolded) is false and misleading.   The Xr is a much faster phone with the same pixel density Retina display as the top-end phone’s of last year or two years ago, and with a bigger display and the Portrait photography capabilities of the dual lens prior models, plus the much more secure Face ID replacing the legacy Touch ID.  Get your facts straight. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 34 of 42
    It's odd, but this article got me more pumped to buy the XS Max than the entire Apple presentation did!! There's a 512GB Space Grey model with my name on it...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 35 of 42
    backstab said:
    lewchenko said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I’m betting you’re actually lying and can’t afford it. If you could, there would be no need for the pointless sniping.

    The sniping is justified. 
    And I don't really care whether you believe me or not.
    It's about value. And the value proposition just isn't here. Looking at the feedback in all the chat threads since the event, I'm very much not alone.

    People (even those with money who could buy this phone) recognise this as nothing more than Apple being greedy and being  taken for a ride. 

    Only those with more money than sense will blindly hand it over without questioning the value. 
    Utter bullshit. Go whine on the Mercedes or Porsche message boards.
    As opposed to an Apple forum about Apple products... to which I'm moaning about. 
    Got ya. Makes total sense. Lol. 
  • Reply 36 of 42
    tmay said:
    kitatit said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I Totally agree, yes I could afford it too but these prices are just too much to swallow so I choose not to pay. I would still be on two yearly cycle if  they hadn’t gone so crazy with prices. I used to feel I was making a pragmatic choice for paying for quality but now I feel like Apple is just rubbing our noses in it. “Hey, let’s see if they’ll pay this..... holy shit! They did!”

    Hey, it’s supply and demand, and the price is set by what the market will bare but I reached my limit last year with the X.

    if the XR had 3D Touch, I’d be all over a 128g. I just keep rollin with my 6 for now.
    Persons who have tried it, think that haptic feedback isn't all that different in use from 3D Touch.
    Thanks Tmay, the feature that I really liked about 3D Touch that I’ve  used a couple of times on newer iPhones is pressing on the keyboard to move the cursor like a mouse/trackpad.

    I’m not sure if this is due to some issues the iPhone 6 is known for, but I’ve had way more mistypes when I’m entering text on the 6 than I ever did on my 3,3G,4 or 5. 
    The 3D Touch enabling the “track pad” cursor movement seem to speed up text editing a lot for me. Isn’t the haptic feedback a complementary feature to 3D Touch, not a replacement?
  • Reply 37 of 42
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    You need to get over it mate. You aren't the target demographic for these new models.  Apple changed the game with the X showing the iPhone is the mobile for the top 10%. If you can't afford it then it's not Tim Cook's fault, rather your life choices.  I work in the City and earn a good £150K (minus bonus) a year min.  We are the type of people Tim wants to sell to, not the middle anymore. It's aspirational mate to get people like you off your butt and earning more!  I've already ordered a gold 512GB XS MAX with a series 4 Hermes Apple Watch. It's almost £3K but can I afford it? Yes! If you don't like it buy a Moto G5, it's a mobile for your class of person.
  • Reply 38 of 42
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,569member

    Incidentally, note that Apple didn't ever release a 7S or 8S; by skipping the 9 (and 9S!), Apple now has reached "X" faster than Samsung, which had been incrementing its Galaxy lineup version every year, rather than following Apple's tick-tock cadence with in-between S models. Note that Apple didn't just reach X, it's now sitting on a portfolio of X models: XR, XS and XS Max. This is just marketing, of course.
    Not sure what the point of this bit is apart from a random, totally insubstantial Samsung bash.
  • Reply 39 of 42
    crowleycrowley Posts: 5,569member
    backstab said:
    lewchenko said:
    lewchenko said:
    The only aggressive thing I'm seeing here is the pricing changes in the last 2years. And not in a good way. Aggressive as in it will seriously hurt your wealth.

    Especially in non US markets..

    But it will line the pockets of Apple I guess..

    These days £750/£800 (128Gb) gets you a mid range low res , XR edition. 2 years ago that was top end pricing.

    Now top end (XS Max with 256GB) since there is no 128GB is £1249

    I think I paid about £800 for my 7Plus 128Gb which was also pricey at the time. Going to an equivalent XS Max for the big screen is a £450 premium. Laughable. 

    The increase is shocking. Quite disgusting. 

    I'm not complaining because I couldn't afford to buy it.. I could. It's about value. And not wanting to be taken for a mug. 

    Really not liking where Apple is going these days.
    I’m betting you’re actually lying and can’t afford it. If you could, there would be no need for the pointless sniping.

    The sniping is justified. 
    And I don't really care whether you believe me or not.
    It's about value. And the value proposition just isn't here. Looking at the feedback in all the chat threads since the event, I'm very much not alone.

    People (even those with money who could buy this phone) recognise this as nothing more than Apple being greedy and being  taken for a ride. 

    Only those with more money than sense will blindly hand it over without questioning the value. 
    Utter bullshit. Go whine on the Mercedes or Porsche message boards.
    You think no one questions the value of a Mercedes or Porsche?
  • Reply 40 of 42
    I really love how this bloke bashes tabloid journalism. Thanks to Mr Dilger, I don't take those papers seriously anymore. Long live Apple and AppleInsider, the latter being about the only credible source in the category
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