Mac sales decline in Q3 as customers await new models [u]

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 68
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,432member
    I’m amazed at how long Apple delays implementing new chips these days. That’s said, im terribly happy with my quad core 13 inch. I hope it will keep me happy well into the eventual switch to ARM based macs. 
    Well the CPU in your 13” quad was announced in April, unknown when Intel shipped it in quantity; Apple shipped in July.

    MBP has been updated every year since at least 2006. iMac has gotten updates every year since about then as well, with one single exception. Notebooks and iMac account for about 95% of all Mac sales.

    Yes, Mac mini and Mac Pro are overdue for an update, Mac Pro in particular has been very badly handled from a product management perspective. 
    I reckon we won’t see a MacMini until next year when it’ll be released as part of the new Mac Pro line. Yes, the Mac Pro was definitely a miss 
  • Reply 42 of 68
    BigDann said:
    Give it four USB-C ports and two USB-A ports. Leverage the T2 secure enclave storage for the primary drive (128 or 256 GB) then offer two NVMe/PCIe x4 interfaces allowing 256, 515 GB, 1, 2 & 4 TB SSD drives in either discreet or RAID setup. Give it a narrow bezel 4K screen.
    What type of USB-C ports? Thunderbolt (includes all favours of USB) or USB 3 or USB 2? And what's the point of USB-A? Just swap the cable for a $4 USB-C to USB-A cable or port dongle, problem solved.

    If you circumvent the T-2 chip, you lose the security and the performance advantage. The T-2 controls all i/o to include the disks, camera, whatever, etc, and it handles all of the encryption. This is why the new MBPs get 2.5 GB/sec disk performance.

    4K screen accomplishes what exactly? You're just doubling the number of pixels you can't see and placing an unnecessary load on the GPU and battery.
  • Reply 43 of 68
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 4,432member


    entropys said:
    macxpress said:

    lkrupp said:
    ... according to new estimates from market research firm Gartner....

    Well la dee da. According to estimates the iPhone X was a flop. According to estimates the Apple Watch was a non-starter. According to estimates Apple is on the verge of failure. But whatever, this will be fodder for the “Were’s the new Mac Mini” crowd. In the comments to come we will be treated to pontification and bloviation about Apple’s loyal customers, the ones who kept the company afloat, being abandoned with Apple’s deemphasis of Macs and how it will be the end of the company. Get the popcorn out because here it comes.
    Oh don't forget about these who supposedly will never buy a Mac again, or can't wait any longer so they're gonna go get a PC or create a hackintosh crowd. 
    I ahave to admit I am probably in that camp.
    My old iMac with the dodgy GPU has now been pulled apart five times to bake the GPU again. The last time I did it I must have done something wrong putting it back together and the CPU fan is going full speed. Too much trouble to open up again so waiting for a new iMac to come out. i have been in this situation for about eighteen months now. I would have replaced her but just can’t bring myself to do it And pay full price with the current design iMac with an outdated CPU. I can’t even begin to think how hard it would be to fix. It would be like the transition from my iMac G5 (designed to be easily diagnosed and fixable) to the first intel iMac ( an absolute dog of an internal design that made it hard to even replace the PRAM battery, just like the current design). 
    So this might really be it.  A transition to the dark side. I hope Apple releases a redesign that means it is a bit user upgradable and can fix little things like the PRAM battery. Otherwise I will have to think about a painful separation.  And divorce down the track. Once my computers switch, why not my phones?
    What date are you thinking, so we can mark our calendars? In fact, why wait at all? Switch now. It will be great, and you'll be happy again. Don't you want to be happy?
    When I read “this might really be it” in his post, I actually laughed out loud. 

    Nothing gives a threat more weight than saying you might do it. 

    People in this forum have been saying they will do it, and they’re, unfortunately, still here. So I don’t hold much hope for Mr Might here leaving the platform any time soon. 

    The simple fact is that Apple hasn’t built a machine you like then you’re not their target customer. 

    So rather than wasting bandwidth threatening to leave, you should just get on with it. 
    edited October 11
  • Reply 44 of 68
    Fatman said:
    Why does Apple wait for their special events? Intel finally gets it act together with decent chips and Apple lags a generation behind the Wintel world. They also really milk their chassis designs, while others manufactures are updating every few months. And I won’t even mention the blunder with the Mac mini - just slap new chips in the darn thing. 
    What is there to milk out of this chassis. It has some well-known flaws that put many people off buying the product.
  • Reply 45 of 68
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,295member
    BigDann said:
    Apple needs to get back into serviceable systems! The current MacBook Pro's are just not serviceable! Can't replace the keyboard, battery or even the display without spending $500 on the parts alone!

    The new systems are just not useable with noisy & failing keyboards & failing displays. Missing key elements real PRO's need like USB-A ports, SDXC & Ethernet. Then the real bugaboo! Missing MagSafe!

    The new i9 system is DOA! As it just can't run beyond base clock because of lack of cooling. Thats independent of the firmware issue it had day one.

    Pro's want a system that work effectively, not a bling system to impress. Apple went down the Bling path with Form. They need to get back to the design that serves the real PRO market Function.

    Apple has the pieces to make this work! A variation of the older Unibody 15" & 17" models which are a bit larger than the ultra thin models Apple is selling now. Which offers the needed space for a better cooling system. Give it four USB-C ports and two USB-A ports. The back two (L&R) are dual function, being a MagSafe type of connector. as well A magnet plug is inserted so you have a flat connection for the breakaway MagSafe connector, yet it's a recessed USB-C port. Take the FaceID system in the Xs iPhone instead of the iSight camera and even offer a rear facing wide angle camera for group FaceTime meetings. Leverage the T2 secure enclave storage for the primary drive (128 or 256 GB) then offer two NVMe/PCIe x4 interfaces allowing 256, 515 GB, 1, 2 & 4 TB SSD drives in either discreet or RAID setup. Give it a narrow bezel 4K screen.

    The older silent! Blister keyboard and use the smaller Touch Pad so the system has a bit more room for the battery.

    Now Apple build it and I will buy it!
    Are you really that ignorant, or just have zero clue?  There are so many ignorant sentences in your post that I wouldn't even want to waste any more moments of my life to answer them.  Go away.
  • Reply 46 of 68
    entropysentropys Posts: 1,370member

    entropys said:
    macxpress said:

    lkrupp said:
    ... according to new estimates from market research firm Gartner....

    Well la dee da. According to estimates the iPhone X was a flop. According to estimates the Apple Watch was a non-starter. According to estimates Apple is on the verge of failure. But whatever, this will be fodder for the “Were’s the new Mac Mini” crowd. In the comments to come we will be treated to pontification and bloviation about Apple’s loyal customers, the ones who kept the company afloat, being abandoned with Apple’s deemphasis of Macs and how it will be the end of the company. Get the popcorn out because here it comes.
    Oh don't forget about these who supposedly will never buy a Mac again, or can't wait any longer so they're gonna go get a PC or create a hackintosh crowd. 
    I ahave to admit I am probably in that camp.
    My old iMac with the dodgy GPU has now been pulled apart five times to bake the GPU again. The last time I did it I must have done something wrong putting it back together and the CPU fan is going full speed. Too much trouble to open up again so waiting for a new iMac to come out. i have been in this situation for about eighteen months now. I would have replaced her but just can’t bring myself to do it And pay full price with the current design iMac with an outdated CPU. I can’t even begin to think how hard it would be to fix. It would be like the transition from my iMac G5 (designed to be easily diagnosed and fixable) to the first intel iMac ( an absolute dog of an internal design that made it hard to even replace the PRAM battery, just like the current design). 
    So this might really be it.  A transition to the dark side. I hope Apple releases a redesign that means it is a bit user upgradable and can fix little things like the PRAM battery. Otherwise I will have to think about a painful separation.  And divorce down the track. Once my computers switch, why not my phones?
    What date are you thinking, so we can mark our calendars? In fact, why wait at all? Switch now. It will be great, and you'll be happy again. Don't you want to be happy?
    I don’t want to switch. I want an updated iMac that I will be as happy as I was with the three I have already had. That isn’t unreasonable. 
    cgWerks
  • Reply 47 of 68
    mike54mike54 Posts: 267member
    Apple refused to update the mac mini or offer a reasonably priced headless mac, so I bought I Dell instead. And far the only one who done this.
    iOS does not have the functionality of a PC, so I don't understand why Apple, a trillion dollar company, can't keep their few PC models up to date.
  • Reply 48 of 68
    entropys said:
    macxpress said:

    lkrupp said:
    ... according to new estimates from market research firm Gartner....

    Well la dee da. According to estimates the iPhone X was a flop. According to estimates the Apple Watch was a non-starter. According to estimates Apple is on the verge of failure. But whatever, this will be fodder for the “Were’s the new Mac Mini” crowd. In the comments to come we will be treated to pontification and bloviation about Apple’s loyal customers, the ones who kept the company afloat, being abandoned with Apple’s deemphasis of Macs and how it will be the end of the company. Get the popcorn out because here it comes.
    Oh don't forget about these who supposedly will never buy a Mac again, or can't wait any longer so they're gonna go get a PC or create a hackintosh crowd. 
    I ahave to admit I am probably in that camp.
    My old iMac with the dodgy GPU has now been pulled apart five times to bake the GPU again. The last time I did it I must have done something wrong putting it back together and the CPU fan is going full speed. Too much trouble to open up again so waiting for a new iMac to come out. i have been in this situation for about eighteen months now. I would have replaced her but just can’t bring myself to do it And pay full price with the current design iMac with an outdated CPU. I can’t even begin to think how hard it would be to fix. It would be like the transition from my iMac G5 (designed to be easily diagnosed and fixable) to the first intel iMac ( an absolute dog of an internal design that made it hard to even replace the PRAM battery, just like the current design). 
    So this might really be it.  A transition to the dark side. I hope Apple releases a redesign that means it is a bit user upgradable and can fix little things like the PRAM battery. Otherwise I will have to think about a painful separation.  And divorce down the track. Once my computers switch, why not my phones?
    I was keen on buying a 2018 model, then I was mortified at the recent revelations about the T2 chip and Apple’s internal service documentation and was torn between buying a 2017 model or just… start thinking of switching back to the PC, I guess?

    I eventually caved in and bought an iMac just like the one Quinn from SnazzyLabs upgraded. I’ll buy all those bits and pieces and install all the otherwise warranty-voiding stuff only in two years’ time… That also allows me to see what the guinea pigs find about the compatibility of the 8th-Gen chips with the 2017 model; perhaps I can take it further than even the 7700K.

    So, yeah. My current iMac is a Rev. A (also with a shady GPu, “fixed” by Apple via firmware updates) Late 2009 27’’ model, upgraded with a 2.93 Core i7, 32 GB of RAM and a 802.11ac (now AKA “WiFi 5”) kit from OSXWiFi. It hás served me well for NINE years… I’m hoping the new one will last me another 7-10 years, and that until then I have a well-paid job which allows me to pay the Apple Tax in earnest.

    Seeing how you’re the kind of guy who popped open the most obnoxious, glued-in case to bake a CPU several times, if I were you I’d do the same if I wanted to stay in the platform and still keep some semblance of freedom. The risk of having a T2 model is just too high… Buying low-end models and upgrading them later is, when possible, the way to go. I’m already paranoid (and careful) enough about security, will only use parts from reputable vendors (G-Skill, Crucial, OWC…) and seriously doubt that the performance advantage will be worth it, especially if I can indeed upgrade it with something better than the 7700K.

    I’m basically buying just a macOS-compatible logic board with a 512 GB NVMe SSD and a nice DCI-P3 5K screen in a gorgeous case; all the other components (RAM and CPU, and the only reason I’m not including hard drives there is because the Fusion drives use an insulting 64 GB or still paltry 128 GB SSD) are basically temporary and disposable, and the only thing that irks me is that to get the Radeon Pro 575 or the top-level 580 I’d have to pony up a lot more for the mid- or top-level CPU I’ll be reselling or forgetting about in a drawer later on anyway… Anyway, I don’t care much about gaming and Quinn’s benchmarks have shown that even with the 570, when upgraded it’ll be good enough for even the heaviest workload I’ll ever put it through. In fact, it was faster than even the BTO config with the 580 and the 7700…
    edited October 11
  • Reply 49 of 68
    lkrupp said:
    I need to start charging for my predictions. This thread filled up very quickly with exactly the comments a couple of us predicted. We even had one about switching to the PC dark side, phones and all. These comments are so hilariously easy to prognosticate it’s almost not worth the effort.
    Like my old man used to say "if you think you are too smart for this world, why don't you grease your arse and slide into the next"
  • Reply 50 of 68
    cgWerks said:
    Meanwhile, in the Apple boardroom.... 'See Tim, we were right that people just don't want Macs anymore.'
    Maybe the board is following a strategic direction, maybe the current lineup simply doesn’t appeal as they did before to the consumers. 

    In one way or another a statement from SJ comes to my mind where he simply acknowledges that at the end the consumers decide with their wallet. 
  • Reply 51 of 68
    Fatman said:
    Why does Apple wait for their special events? Intel finally gets it act together with decent chips and Apple lags a generation behind the Wintel world. They also really milk their chassis designs, while others manufactures are updating every few months. And I won’t even mention the blunder with the Mac mini - just slap new chips in the darn thing. 
    What is there to milk out of this chassis. It has some well-known flaws that put many people off buying the product.
    They would immediately release 4 -7 years of pent up sales for people who have i7 models and nothing to upgrade to. I would order 4 on launch day, with more to follow. 
    edited October 11 cgWerks
  • Reply 52 of 68
    Fatman said:
    Why does Apple wait for their special events? Intel finally gets it act together with decent chips and Apple lags a generation behind the Wintel world. They also really milk their chassis designs, while others manufactures are updating every few months. And I won’t even mention the blunder with the Mac mini - just slap new chips in the darn thing. 

    Who is is updating their chassis design every few months? Name them.
  • Reply 53 of 68
    Gruber doesn’t think there will be an event until after the Xr launches.
  • Reply 54 of 68
    Come on Apple!  We've only been waiting YEARS for a new Mac Mini and Mac Pro!  I do not understand the delays on key products.   
  • Reply 55 of 68
    aknabiaknabi Posts: 131member

    BigDann said:
    Apple needs to get back into serviceable systems! The current MacBook Pro's are just not serviceable! Can't replace the keyboard, battery or even the display without spending $500 on the parts alone!

    The new systems are just not useable with noisy & failing keyboards & failing displays. Missing key elements real PRO's need like USB-A ports, SDXC & Ethernet. Then the real bugaboo! Missing MagSafe!

    The new i9 system is DOA! As it just can't run beyond base clock because of lack of cooling. Thats independent of the firmware issue it had day one.

    Pro's want a system that work effectively, not a bling system to impress. Apple went down the Bling path with Form. They need to get back to the design that serves the real PRO market Function.

    Apple has the pieces to make this work! A variation of the older Unibody 15" & 17" models which are a bit larger than the ultra thin models Apple is selling now. Which offers the needed space for a better cooling system. Give it four USB-C ports and two USB-A ports. The back two (L&R) are dual function, being a MagSafe type of connector. as well A magnet plug is inserted so you have a flat connection for the breakaway MagSafe connector, yet it's a recessed USB-C port. Take the FaceID system in the Xs iPhone instead of the iSight camera and even offer a rear facing wide angle camera for group FaceTime meetings. Leverage the T2 secure enclave storage for the primary drive (128 or 256 GB) then offer two NVMe/PCIe x4 interfaces allowing 256, 515 GB, 1, 2 & 4 TB SSD drives in either discreet or RAID setup. Give it a narrow bezel 4K screen.

    The older silent! Blister keyboard and use the smaller Touch Pad so the system has a bit more room for the battery.

    Now Apple build it and I will buy it!
    Nah. Silly post. As a pro software dev, my MBP is my *portable*, so it doesn't need space wasted on stuff like built-in network and legacy ports. WiFi for my *portable* is just fine, and I can use newer cables or even an adapter for legacy ports if needed. I give no shits about user-serviceability since I'd just drop it off at the shop. Same with my car. 

    The form & function are the best blend I've ever used. The problem is, you want a Dell. Go get one if those are the traits you value.
    As a pro software dev the MBP has been a disaster for productivity... simply due to the keyboard (huge increase in errors at the same speed as old keyboard) and Touch Bar (too sensitive and lose work while debugging when somehow I brush against the Touch Bar causing a rebuild and run or other editor changes)...

    Indeed the horsepower on those is great (expect the next one to match my 12-core Mac Pro), but I'm not buying until the do a rev on the keyboard Touch Bar (a huge fix wold be if they somehow could either up or have a sensitivity setting on the TB)
    cgWerks
  • Reply 56 of 68
    lkrupp said:
    I need to start charging for my predictions. This thread filled up very quickly with exactly the comments a couple of us predicted. We even had one about switching to the PC dark side, phones and all. These comments are so hilariously easy to prognosticate it’s almost not worth the effort.
    If any quantity of people are talking about switching to "the PC dark side" then there are problems. People aren't satisfied with the Mac. Sales are down significantly, because like you, Apple is dismissing their complaints and blindly ploughing on. Mac sales have grown in the past even during a general PC market slowdown. Blackberry's fans dismissed Blackberry users saying they were leaving, and look where Blackberry is now. MS did the same, and look at the massive headache they had with Vista, which they've managed to turn around in Windows 10 which is fairly well regarded. Any company that ignores its users will eventually fail, history has shown this over and over.

    Dismissal of all criticism is a very fast way to lose your position at the top. None of us want that, but no doubt you'll continue to blindly follow Apple and dismiss anything that's not blind faith toward them.
    ElCapitancroprmajorslcgWerks
  • Reply 57 of 68
    dewmedewme Posts: 1,787member
    I'm very curious about this statement:

    "Apple was one of two companies to exhibit negative growth during the third quarter, likely due to a dearth of new products."

    Is this based on an actual statistically sound survey, or a personal opinion? It's not even clear who is the owner of this opinion and what the rationale is for it. Please explain.

    I have a 5-year old iMac and it runs beautifully with Mojave. Every 5K iMac released since I purchased my iMac in 2013 is a significant upgrade over mine. I've played with them all in the Apple Store and the 5K display is amazing. But my iMac still works fine and I have no intention of replacing it until I absolutely have to. Or not at all.

    My reality for personal computing (not work) in 2018 is that my iPhone is my primary computing device based on hours used per day/week/month/year. My iPad Pro is probably second because it is so convenient to use on the sofa, in a hotel room, while eating lunch. or sitting on the porch. The ability to use an iPhone or iPad anywhere, at any time, and outside of the realm of stationary isolation of my home office in which my iMac resides is a big factor in my distribution of usage. 
    I can use my iPhone and iPad without cutting myself off from those around me. My iMac is my #3 most used computing device followed by my MacBook Pro. I also have Linux, Windows, and Raspberry Pi computers to play with.

    So the real question is whether the incremental drop-off in Mac sales is as much or even more driven by redirection of individual computing focus and financial resources from Macs to iDevices? 
    If you've bought a new iPhone or iPad Pro lately, these device are not inexpensive by any stretch of the imagination. A new iPhone or loaded iPad Pro can easily cost more than a new lower end iMac, MacBook, MacBook Air, and certainly Mac Mini. paying for an iPhone and an iPad puts you into a serious Mac equivalent outlay of cash. Personally speaking, Apple has not suffered any financial loss whatsoever by the shifting of my primary computer interaction from desk/lap bound Mac devices to lightweight mobile iOS devices. Would resolving the so called "dearth of new products" on the Mac side compel me to run out and buy a new Mac? Not at all. My personal computing bandwidth is already over allocated.

    Of course the means less on the business side. Perhaps that's where the "dearth" is happening. But would fixing that issue even change the numbers in the chart?  

  • Reply 58 of 68
    Wow you all just reminded me how nerdy people who post here really are. I could care less about the inwards of my system if it is solid and works well for years without the need for repair. My 2011 iMac with 32 gigs of Ram still runs the latest Photoshop well enough and I may be wrong but few Apple customers really need so much processing power outside of digital film editors and perhaps serious scientific research. It all comes down to ego, "my pc is faster than yours" although there is little practical use for all that speed. Most things made will ultimately fail that is the only reason for me to retire my 7 year old iMac.
    macplusplus
  • Reply 59 of 68
    Fatman said:
    Why does Apple wait for their special events? Intel finally gets it act together with decent chips and Apple lags a generation behind the Wintel world. They also really milk their chassis designs, while others manufactures are updating every few months. And I won’t even mention the blunder with the Mac mini - just slap new chips in the darn thing. 
    "[M]ilk their chassis designs"? What you mean by that is, they don't change the chrome pattern on the grill every model year like a 1960s Chevy. In the long run, cosmetic alterations did not prove to be the road to success for the Big Three. One of the benefits of good design is that it lasts because it's useful and appealing from the get-go. If more computer manufacturers employed that philosophy, they wouldn't need to update their chassis every few months.
  • Reply 60 of 68
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 687member
    Rayz2016 said:


    entropys said:
    macxpress said:

    lkrupp said:
    ... according to new estimates from market research firm Gartner....

    Well la dee da. According to estimates the iPhone X was a flop. According to estimates the Apple Watch was a non-starter. According to estimates Apple is on the verge of failure. But whatever, this will be fodder for the “Were’s the new Mac Mini” crowd. In the comments to come we will be treated to pontification and bloviation about Apple’s loyal customers, the ones who kept the company afloat, being abandoned with Apple’s deemphasis of Macs and how it will be the end of the company. Get the popcorn out because here it comes.
    Oh don't forget about these who supposedly will never buy a Mac again, or can't wait any longer so they're gonna go get a PC or create a hackintosh crowd. 
    I ahave to admit I am probably in that camp.
    My old iMac with the dodgy GPU has now been pulled apart five times to bake the GPU again. The last time I did it I must have done something wrong putting it back together and the CPU fan is going full speed. Too much trouble to open up again so waiting for a new iMac to come out. i have been in this situation for about eighteen months now. I would have replaced her but just can’t bring myself to do it And pay full price with the current design iMac with an outdated CPU. I can’t even begin to think how hard it would be to fix. It would be like the transition from my iMac G5 (designed to be easily diagnosed and fixable) to the first intel iMac ( an absolute dog of an internal design that made it hard to even replace the PRAM battery, just like the current design). 
    So this might really be it.  A transition to the dark side. I hope Apple releases a redesign that means it is a bit user upgradable and can fix little things like the PRAM battery. Otherwise I will have to think about a painful separation.  And divorce down the track. Once my computers switch, why not my phones?
    What date are you thinking, so we can mark our calendars? In fact, why wait at all? Switch now. It will be great, and you'll be happy again. Don't you want to be happy?
    When I read “this might really be it” in his post, I actually laughed out loud. 

    Nothing gives a threat more weight than saying you might do it. 

    People in this forum have been saying they will do it, and they’re, unfortunately, still here. So I don’t hold much hope for Mr Might here leaving the platform any time soon. 

    The simple fact is that Apple hasn’t built a machine you like then you’re not their target customer. 

    So rather than wasting bandwidth threatening to leave, you should just get on with it. 
    I realise a tech forum will be biased toward "pro" machines, but considering how many people here say Apple's lineup isn't suitable for them, and with just 3 or 4 people desperately trying to defend Apple, doesn't that make you think you and Apple's Mac "strategy" (haha) might actually be wrong? Apple isn't making Macs that people want, otherwise sales wouldn't have fallen. You'd be fine buying an almost 5 year old Mac mini for the same price it was released for? Yes? Then it's quite obvious you have your head buried in the sand and are blindly obsessive over Apple.
    ElCapitancgWerks
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