Apple repair policy critic vows to fight 'counterfeit' battery seizure by U.S. customs

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 72
    This seems very suspicious.

    Why would the batteries have "markings which are substantially indistinguishable from, and therefore, bear a counterfeit design/word/mark"?

    Why wouldn't he just import generic batteries that had the same physical dimensions and electrical connector as an Apple battery, but no brand name on them? You know, like countless battery shops have been doing for decades for Dell, Lenovo, Toshiba and all the other laptops out there.
    chia
  • Reply 22 of 72
    There just isn't enough information here to know what happened. One form of what customs considers counterfeit is overruns. For instance, a contract battery manufacturer is contracted to make 10,000 batteries but makes 11,000. They fulfill the order and then sell the remaining 1,000 on their own. But they don't really own the batteries so they can't sell them as if there are original batteries. If it was this kind of situation Rossman would claim they are authentic batteries, and functionally they are, but legally they are not. The battery guy could have marked the 1,000 overrun in some other way but they wouldn't be worth as much which is why they don't. They are trading on the corporate name that they spent zero dollars or time building. A lot of the counterfeit material is this kind of counterfeit.
    asciidysamoriamacgui
  • Reply 23 of 72
    sflocal said:
    Those of you who haven't watched Rossmann's YouTube videos really should.  I originally had issues with his rants, but after watching a lot of his repair videos, I really have quite a bit of respect for the guy.  He reminds me of those old-school honest, garage repairman prodigies.  He really knows his stuff and he genuinely wants to put the customer first.  He makes a sh!tload of money (I'm guessing) in repairing machines that Apple will not service, or makes it too expensive to service.

    I've seen quite a few of his videos where a customer has a MacBook serviced BY APPLE, or the customer purchased a refurbished MacBook (FROM APPLE) and showing to the world the dismal quality of the repair.  Bad solders, grimy PCB, etc.. Rossman knows his stuff.  I'll give him that.

    On the flip side, Rossmann is a very angry person when it comes to Apple's corporate decisions.  He makes a good living pandering to the Applehaters and YouTube trolls, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.  That news report was damning to Apple and frankly, Apple deserved it.  It was beyond an embarrassment how Apple's genius people essentially lied to the customer, only to have Rossman fully document on video the problem and was fixed (for free) in minutes, or give an option to properly repair the problem for $75-$150.  That's old-school pride.

    I see both sides.  I understand Apple's position with 3rd-party repairs, but I also see point that Rossmann makes.  The reality is that people that have their Apple products serviced by 3rd party people - only to have them break again - will simply blame Apple in the end, which is why I know why Apple does what they do.  However, people like Rossmann should have the ability and tools necessary to repair Mac products.  

    The reality is that it's hard to find people with Rossmann's technical abilities that will work for shops like Apple.  They most likely would not be able to afford him, or people like him.  It's sad but true.  
    I do not believe that Apple lied to the customer about the repair to the laptop. They just said to do any repair they would need to fix the water damage issue first. If they only quoted and worked on the screen issue and they found that their original estimate was incorrect or if they had fixed the issue and the customer found another issue or it did not last because of the water damage then the customer would say the Apple lied about the original cost or did not repair the problem correctly. Apple needs to know when the computer leaves their hands that they did everything they could to make sure the repair is as good as it can be.

    That being said I believe that third parties should be able to do some repairs on products as long as the repairs do not compromise the security of the device. As an example, IFixit mentions that after replacing/repairing the touch sensor that the iPhone would not work. Replacing/repairing the touch sensor on an iPhone could compromise the security of the iPhone and should only be done by authorized repair places.
    edited October 2018
  • Reply 24 of 72
    Obviously the dude broke some import law. Making this into some kind of Apple led conspiracy is pushing credulity. He’s gonna lose more than his batteries. I think he may have already lost his mind. 
    racerhomie3claire1mikeybabes
  • Reply 25 of 72
    ascii said:
    mknelson said:
    Even if they are original batteries (and the cost listed is suspiciously low) he doesn't have import rights.
    Oh, I hadn't considered that. I was thinking it could be quickly resolved and Customs probably owed him an apology, but I guess even with genuine products, you don't automatically have the right to send them over international borders. It's up to the government of each country to set the rules at their borders.
    In order to import genuine products, you would need a letter of license from the manufacturer. I'm pretty sure Louis Rossmann doesn't have one. He's an idiot thinking Apple is conspiring with the government. He just got unlucky CBP went through his package. I'm sure CBP saw the batteries and didn't see a letter of license so they assumed the batteries are counterfeit. Either way, Rossmann has no case at all. 
    You’re trying to say that I would need a license to buy stuff via amazon/eBay from someone’s stack of obsolete (ie “vintage”) batteries…?
  • Reply 26 of 72
    majorslmajorsl Posts: 67unconfirmed, member
    dgray67 said:
    I do not believe that Apple lied to the customer about the repair to the laptop. They just said to do any repair they would need to fix the water damage issue first. If they only quoted and worked on the screen issue and they found that their original estimate was incorrect or if they had fixed the issue and the customer found another issue or it did not last because of the water damage then the customer would say the Apple lied about the original cost or did not repair the problem correctly. Apple needs to know when the computer leaves their hands that they did everything they could to make sure the repair is as good as it can be.

    That being said I believe that third parties should be able to do some repairs on products as long as the repairs do not compromise the security of the device. As an example, IFixit mentions that after replacing/repairing the touch sensor that the iPhone would not work. Replacing/repairing the touch sensor on an iPhone could compromise the security of the iPhone and should only be done by authorized repair places.
    ...except there was no water damage.  Just a falsely tripped tag due to possible use in high humidity (or maybe CBC tripped it on purpose).  Generally, an experienced tech can tell water damage without the aid of a sticker, but giving the Apple genius the benefit of the doubt, Apple probably has a policy that amounts to "sticker is red, game over, no matter what."
    dysamoria
  • Reply 27 of 72
    larz2112 said:
    This is how I feel about Apple's repair policy and general strategy of creating an ecosystem based on serfdom.


    You win for most ignorant comment of the day, congratulations...
    You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things.
    dysamoriatoysandme
  • Reply 28 of 72
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,114member
    jmulchino said:
    What a sad, pathetic little YouTubing troll... Spend $50k to get $1k of batteries? Dude, you have issues, not to mention an over-sized tinfoil hat if you think Apple conspired with US Border agents to seize batteries because of your stupid CBC rant, which doesn't do anyone any favours.
    Magman1979, you obviously haven’t seen his videos! And you yourself could be defined as a troll for spouting off with zero background knowledge of his case!
    Uh, yeah actually I have, and while he has skills, he's just whining little Millennial A-hole who obviously feels entitled to special treatment, and throws a fit when he doesn't get his way or gets caught doing something wrong.
    racerhomie3claire1
  • Reply 29 of 72
    magman1979magman1979 Posts: 1,114member
    larz2112 said:
    larz2112 said:
    This is how I feel about Apple's repair policy and general strategy of creating an ecosystem based on serfdom.


    You win for most ignorant comment of the day, congratulations...
    You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things.
    Having been in IT for 20+ years, being ACSP certified, knowing a LOT more about Apple products internally than most, and being able to recognize a petulant YouTuber smart ass, I think not...
    claire1matrix077
  • Reply 30 of 72
    macguimacgui Posts: 1,157member
    If there's any insanity involved, it's with Apple's repair policies and the people who don't see a problem with that.

    First, understandably, there is very little actual information about what and why Customs did what they did. We only know they seized a shipment of batteries. 

    This doesn't mean that any actual laws were broken. Customs has some very wide authority, and any government enforcement agencey can pretty much do pretty egregious actions, and eventually, without admitting guilt, drop an 'investigation'.

    As to whether or not Apple dropped a dime on this guy, they have previously enlisted police to do a little strong arm investigation on their behalf, most notably in the case of the prototype left in the bar. So it's not out of the realm of real possibility.

    It's one thing for Apple to have some reason not to repair a product. But seriously, nobody can repair it? How would any of you feel if your car could only be repaired or serviced at a dealer? Change your own oil? Misdemeanor. Replace the battery yourself? Felony.

    DIY and you void the warranty seems fair to me (though Apple made exceptions for swapping drives and RAM as long as you didn't break anything in the process. Now there's no drive to replace and RAM and storage are soldered on.

    And the worst part is insulting to say the least— a product that's too old to be repaired by Apple can't be repaired by any other business? But Apple will gladly recycle it for you while selling you new kit.

    As to the water damage issue, it probably wasn't a lie. Some low-level tech was following protocol. It's obvious if the repair guy fixed the issue, then Apple could have as well. But Apple has chosen to structure their repair policy in a very specific manner. Their choice, I'm not complaining (much). But that somebody else isn't allowed to repair Apple products is a financial move more than anything else. That would make me angry.

    Others would rather bend over and say 'Sorry, Apple. It won't happen again.' That's insane.
    larz2112dysamoriamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 31 of 72
    sflocal said:
    On the flip side, Rossmann is a very angry person when it comes to Apple's corporate decisions.  He makes a good living pandering to the Applehaters and YouTube trolls, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.  That news report was damning to Apple and frankly, Apple deserved it.  It was beyond an embarrassment how Apple's genius people essentially lied to the customer, only to have Rossman fully document on video the problem and was fixed (for free) in minutes, or give an option to properly repair the problem for $75-$150.  That's old-school pride.



    I don't see how Apple lied to the customer. I'll use BMW as an example, since I'm very familiar with them.

    When a vehicle comes into the shop the first thing that's done is it's connected to a diagnostic tester and checked for any faults in the numerous computers in the vehicle. Then a test plan is constructed based on the faults found. These test plans are based on data BMW has collected on millions of vehicles and the various issues they had. A test plan (literally a flowchart) will ask a technician to check certain things or make measurements and based on the answers they give it will take the technician down a certain path. At the end a recommendation will be made on what the repair should be (replace a component, for example).

    There are times when the suggested repair isn't the correct repair and that there was another issue. But these incidents are rare and the vast majority of the time the result will be correct. It would be unfair to say BMW is ripping off customers when someone happens to have an issue that isn't fixed when the technician follows BMW's instructions.

    For example, the repair might be to replace a $1,000 computer module. If you open up the module you might find a bad solder joint and it could be repaired for much cheaper. However, it's not BMW's policy to open up and repair individual modules even if the replacement cost is high. They are treated like self-contained black boxes and replaced in their entirety. Some might argue this costs BMW a lot of money in warranty costs, but in reality the number of failed modules would be very low so it's simpler to just replace the few that have issues then to start training BMW technicians all over the world to repair a solder joint on the off chance they might get one of these vehicles in their shop.

    If a customer decided not to replace the module and found an independent shop that repaired the solder joint for them, that doesn't mean BMW is lying to customers or cheating customers for telling them they need to replace it. They are simply following procedures. Which is what I'm sure staff at Apple Stores are doing when customers come in. They'd have flowcharts (test plans) for all sorts of issues that they are supposed to follow which will let them identify most problems without having to be actual repair technicians/engineers. Sometimes they might miss something, but no test procedure is ever going to be 100% accurate. As long as it's accurate for the vast majority of customers.

    As for those test plans/procedures, BMW doesn't have two sets of procedures - one for those under warranty and another for those out of warranty. They use the same procedure for all vehicles, and this procedure is based on warranty data of actual repairs. To BMW replacing a $1,000 module on a few vehicles is the cheapest overall option and results in the lowest warranty costs. To Apple, replacing a logic board (as an example) on a Mac under warranty is the best overall solution and results in the lowest overall warranty costs. The problem with this is when people come in with devices (or vehicles) out of warranty. They still get the same recommendations (which often involved changing out entire components/assemblies) as they would if they were under warranty back when Apple (or BMW) had no issues whatsoever changing an expensive component for you (for free). This makes people think Apple/BMW are ripping them off by recommending such expensive repairs, when they are just doing what they've always done - followed test procedures.

    So I don't see Apple doing anything wrong. What I DO see is the CBC (which has a history of this) being very selective in what they report and how they went about conducting their "sting". They had an agenda and carried it out.
    edited October 2018 racerhomie3applemagic
  • Reply 32 of 72
    shevshev Posts: 72member
    sflocal said:
    Those of you who haven't watched Rossmann's YouTube videos really should.  I originally had issues with his rants, but after watching a lot of his repair videos, I really have quite a bit of respect for the guy.  He reminds me of those old-school honest, garage repairman prodigies.  He really knows his stuff and he genuinely wants to put the customer first.  He makes a sh!tload of money (I'm guessing) in repairing machines that Apple will not service, or makes it too expensive to service.

    I've seen quite a few of his videos where a customer has a MacBook serviced BY APPLE, or the customer purchased a refurbished MacBook (FROM APPLE) and showing to the world the dismal quality of the repair.  Bad solders, grimy PCB, etc.. Rossman knows his stuff.  I'll give him that.

    On the flip side, Rossmann is a very angry person when it comes to Apple's corporate decisions.  He makes a good living pandering to the Applehaters and YouTube trolls, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.  That news report was damning to Apple and frankly, Apple deserved it.  It was beyond an embarrassment how Apple's genius people essentially lied to the customer, only to have Rossman fully document on video the problem and was fixed (for free) in minutes, or give an option to properly repair the problem for $75-$150.  That's old-school pride.

    I see both sides.  I understand Apple's position with 3rd-party repairs, but I also see point that Rossmann makes.  The reality is that people that have their Apple products serviced by 3rd party people - only to have them break again - will simply blame Apple in the end, which is why I know why Apple does what they do.  However, people like Rossmann should have the ability and tools necessary to repair Mac products.  

    The reality is that it's hard to find people with Rossmann's technical abilities that will work for shops like Apple.  They most likely would not be able to afford him, or people like him.  It's sad but true.  
    there is no room on this message board for such a well put statement.  :D

    Apple act like c*nts sometimes. End of.
    dysamoriamuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 33 of 72
    ascii said:
    mknelson said:
    Even if they are original batteries (and the cost listed is suspiciously low) he doesn't have import rights.
    Oh, I hadn't considered that. I was thinking it could be quickly resolved and Customs probably owed him an apology, but I guess even with genuine products, you don't automatically have the right to send them over international borders. It's up to the government of each country to set the rules at their borders.
    In the EU (European Union) you have the right to do just that, buy goods in one part of the union iff they are cheaper there than where you are, or just not available locally. Unless of corse you are buying genuine Apple parts, I once wanted a visa mount for an old discontinued Apple display, it was available in Germany but not in the UK, could I have it shipped, not a chance, you can bet your bottom dollar Apples agreement with Amazon Germany forbade it being sold outside of its territory in direct violation of EU law.
  • Reply 34 of 72
    larz2112 said:
    larz2112 said:
    This is how I feel about Apple's repair policy and general strategy of creating an ecosystem based on serfdom.


    You win for most ignorant comment of the day, congratulations...
    You will find that it is you who are mistaken, about a great many things.
    Having been in IT for 20+ years, being ACSP certified, knowing a LOT more about Apple products internally than most, and being able to recognize a petulant YouTuber smart ass, I think not...
    The hate is swelling in you now. Good. I can feel your anger.

    Now put a T2 chip in my next Apple computer, giving me little or no upgrade or repair options other than Apple at inflated prices, and your journey will be complete!
    edited October 2018 dysamoria
  • Reply 35 of 72
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,115member
    Anyone who has seen this guy's videos knows he's one the biggest Apple haters on the internet, and a massive anti-Apple troll, to the point of insanity. Most of his videos are idiotic anti-Apple rants, all based around repairability, and his claim is that Apple's machines are the most poorly designed computers on the planet. 

    There's a 100% chance he's being dishonest in this characterization, note that he never actually stated that he batteries WEREN'T counterfeit. He's probably been doing this HOPING this would happen so he can have his little outrage video. Hope he spends every single dime he has on this "cause". 
    edited October 2018 racerhomie3claire1
  • Reply 36 of 72
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,493member
    dgray67 said:
    sflocal said:
    Those of you who haven't watched Rossmann's YouTube videos really should.  I originally had issues with his rants, but after watching a lot of his repair videos, I really have quite a bit of respect for the guy.  He reminds me of those old-school honest, garage repairman prodigies.  He really knows his stuff and he genuinely wants to put the customer first.  He makes a sh!tload of money (I'm guessing) in repairing machines that Apple will not service, or makes it too expensive to service.

    I've seen quite a few of his videos where a customer has a MacBook serviced BY APPLE, or the customer purchased a refurbished MacBook (FROM APPLE) and showing to the world the dismal quality of the repair.  Bad solders, grimy PCB, etc.. Rossman knows his stuff.  I'll give him that.

    On the flip side, Rossmann is a very angry person when it comes to Apple's corporate decisions.  He makes a good living pandering to the Applehaters and YouTube trolls, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.  That news report was damning to Apple and frankly, Apple deserved it.  It was beyond an embarrassment how Apple's genius people essentially lied to the customer, only to have Rossman fully document on video the problem and was fixed (for free) in minutes, or give an option to properly repair the problem for $75-$150.  That's old-school pride.

    I see both sides.  I understand Apple's position with 3rd-party repairs, but I also see point that Rossmann makes.  The reality is that people that have their Apple products serviced by 3rd party people - only to have them break again - will simply blame Apple in the end, which is why I know why Apple does what they do.  However, people like Rossmann should have the ability and tools necessary to repair Mac products.  

    The reality is that it's hard to find people with Rossmann's technical abilities that will work for shops like Apple.  They most likely would not be able to afford him, or people like him.  It's sad but true.  
    I do not believe that Apple lied to the customer about the repair to the laptop. They just said to do any repair they would need to fix the water damage issue first. If they only quoted and worked on the screen issue and they found that their original estimate was incorrect or if they had fixed the issue and the customer found another issue or it did not last because of the water damage then the customer would say the Apple lied about the original cost or did not repair the problem correctly. Apple needs to know when the computer leaves their hands that they did everything they could to make sure the repair is as good as it can be.

    That being said I believe that third parties should be able to do some repairs on products as long as the repairs do not compromise the security of the device. As an example, IFixit mentions that after replacing/repairing the touch sensor that the iPhone would not work. Replacing/repairing the touch sensor on an iPhone could compromise the security of the iPhone and should only be done by authorized repair places.
    The it just means you didn't watch the video and are simply guessing.

    Watch it, then come back.  Not going to regurgitate if for you since it's obvious you don't want to take the time to actually understand what happened.
  • Reply 37 of 72
    slurpyslurpy Posts: 5,115member
    tokyojimu said:
     I didn’t know YouTube repair personalities was a thing. 
    He is a good repair guy. But he is a bit nuts. I think he is doing valuable work for the Apple ecosystem. 
    What's "valuable" about his work? Encouraging people to open up their modern Macs and repair them themselves, using a soldering iron? His only "value" is enriching himself with all the Apple hating zealots that subscribe to his channel. 99.9999% of people wouldn't benefit an iota from any of his videos. He's not popular on Youtube cause he's a "repair guy", he's popular because of his incessant and vitriolic Apple hatred. 


    edited October 2018 macxpressclaire1
  • Reply 38 of 72
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,493member

    shev said:
    sflocal said:
    Those of you who haven't watched Rossmann's YouTube videos really should.  I originally had issues with his rants, but after watching a lot of his repair videos, I really have quite a bit of respect for the guy.  He reminds me of those old-school honest, garage repairman prodigies.  He really knows his stuff and he genuinely wants to put the customer first.  He makes a sh!tload of money (I'm guessing) in repairing machines that Apple will not service, or makes it too expensive to service.

    I've seen quite a few of his videos where a customer has a MacBook serviced BY APPLE, or the customer purchased a refurbished MacBook (FROM APPLE) and showing to the world the dismal quality of the repair.  Bad solders, grimy PCB, etc.. Rossman knows his stuff.  I'll give him that.

    On the flip side, Rossmann is a very angry person when it comes to Apple's corporate decisions.  He makes a good living pandering to the Applehaters and YouTube trolls, but I'll give him credit where credit is due.  That news report was damning to Apple and frankly, Apple deserved it.  It was beyond an embarrassment how Apple's genius people essentially lied to the customer, only to have Rossman fully document on video the problem and was fixed (for free) in minutes, or give an option to properly repair the problem for $75-$150.  That's old-school pride.

    I see both sides.  I understand Apple's position with 3rd-party repairs, but I also see point that Rossmann makes.  The reality is that people that have their Apple products serviced by 3rd party people - only to have them break again - will simply blame Apple in the end, which is why I know why Apple does what they do.  However, people like Rossmann should have the ability and tools necessary to repair Mac products.  

    The reality is that it's hard to find people with Rossmann's technical abilities that will work for shops like Apple.  They most likely would not be able to afford him, or people like him.  It's sad but true.  
    there is no room on this message board for such a well put statement.  :D

    Apple act like c*nts sometimes. End of.
    Nonsense... I didn't even remotely imply that Apple was behaving badly.  I understand why Apple is doing what it's doing and it makes sense.  On the flip side, I can understand the frustration that folks like Rossmann goes through.  People like Rossmann should be encouraged by Apple.  Heck, make him an authorized repair shop and be done with it.

    Don't change the context of what I wrote.
  • Reply 39 of 72
    ascii said:
    If they were original batteries why did Customs think they were knock-offs?
    Well he didn’t buy them from Apple, he said that. He also said he bought them from a Chinese manufacturer of original parts - ie. that manufacturer (assuming they are or were a supplier to Apple) is using the trade marks and product designs provided by Apple to create a business selling Apple parts directly to the public in direct contravention of their agreement with Apple (which forbids that). This is fairly common behaviour in China but is still counterfeit. It’s also possible that the manufacturer has never supplied Apple but sells replica parts with stolen Apple branding - still counterfeit. 
    edited October 2018 claire1mikeybabesdysamoria
  • Reply 40 of 72
    I recently bought an aftermarket iFixit iPhone battery for $13.99, and installed it in about 10m, dropping the old one off for recycling at BestBuy.
    So far it seems great. Nuff said?
    edited October 2018 muthuk_vanalingam
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