Review: Apple's 11-inch iPad Pro is stunningly powerful, with a few key limitations

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  • Reply 61 of 121
    thttht Posts: 3,100member
    cgWerks said:
    tht said:
    After a year with the 10.5, I think I’d be able to write a thesis length paper with the software keyboard, likely with latex. Would prefer the 12.9 for obvious reasons, but definitely can be done.
    OK, I suppose it could be done, but it would be a trying endeavor. I've written articles for like 3 hours on a flight with the software keyboard, and that was about all I could take. And, I'd have saved an hour or more if I had a real keyboard.
    For a thesis or documentation or a paper? Using an iPad software keyboard will be one of the least trying things about the endeavor. The only way to make it less trying is if the keyboard could just write it without my input. Just automatically write documentation for me. It’s the soul crushing boredom, not the software keyboard that will be the problem. 😜

    A lot of it is indeed subjective, what you are used to, and how well you can adapt. I don’t think there is anything technical with a software keyboard - a well designed, fully spaced software keyboard - that would make writing on it more difficult to write a thesis on, all things equal including equivalent viewable areas. But the inertia of what you are used to is a really big thing to stop.

    One thing I would like to see with a keyboard accessory is to have a full stroke keyboard, preferably a light stroke and a strong click. It would be about 1” thick, but if you are going to use an external keyboard, make something really good, nice, neat and portable. The new magnetized back and Smart Connector looks like it will be easier to slide on and slide off.

    cgWerks said:
    Yeah, that's a huge pain, especially when it is the kind of feature you use almost daily. For example, I almost always wait to manage my calendar until I'm on my Mac, as something simple like duplicating an appointment can't be done on iOS.
    Yeah. Apple has not helped itself here. They should have been racing to put all their full macOS apps onto the iPad Pro, as well as racing to implement PC type functionality. Terminal, Xcode, FCPX, LPX, full iWork/Mail, full web browser, should have been or in the process of being ported and or updated to feature parity to macOS versions. The feedback on this has to be loud and voluminous. People want to use iPads for all sorts of things. It’s strange the company isn’t racing to enable it.
  • Reply 62 of 121
    Any idea how you can charge your iPhone using the iPad Pro? Is there a cable that goes from USB-C to Lightning, or do we end up using the standard charging cable with a USB-A to USB-C port converter at the iPad end?
  • Reply 63 of 121
    thttht Posts: 3,100member
    Any idea how you can charge your iPhone using the iPad Pro? Is there a cable that goes from USB-C to Lightning, or do we end up using the standard charging cable with a USB-A to USB-C port converter at the iPad end?
    You can get Apple’s Lightning to USBC cable. Really the best option as far as cables go.

    If you are carrying an iPhone, iPad, plus cables with you, the best overall option is probably an external battery though.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 64 of 121
    cgWerks said:
    macplusplus said:
    There are external flash drives that work over the Lightning port of previous iPad models. These come with their utility app that integrates also with the Files app and the Share sheet. We can expect USB-C versions of these flash drives, this is just a matter of time.
    Why should anyone need a utility to do what any computer should be able to do directly? That's just silly.
    It is equally silly that "any computer" does not do that directly. You were required to download drivers from the Internet until recently to attach a  dumb hard disk. You are still required to do that on the Mac for some brands. Not to mention cameras, scanners, printers and other data capture and output devices. What computer handles those "directly"?
    edited November 2018
  • Reply 65 of 121
    MplsP said:
    They tout the processor power, etc, but what's the point if you can do little more than surf the web and compose e-mails?
    And you'd be wrong. You're literally not paying attention to all the apps that support the Pencil, the video editing apps, the myriad music production and synthesizer apps, the fact full Photoshop is coming next year, etc. "Little more" shows that maybe YOU are incapable of doing more than that on an iPad, but that doesn't mean others are.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 66 of 121

    cgWerks said:

    I think the pushback has come somewhat due to Apple's slipping commitment to the Mac, especially at the lower end of the price range. The message from Apple seems to be... if you're a non-pro Mac user, your new machine is an iDevice. Except that iDevices aren't ready for prime-time to be such a replacement. So, people are frustrated with that situation.
    Are you still fucking that chicken? What about the goddamned Air and mini that just came out? FFS. Slipping commitment my ass.
    StrangeDayswilliamlondon
  • Reply 67 of 121
    cgWerks said:
    macplusplus said:
    There are external flash drives that work over the Lightning port of previous iPad models. These come with their utility app that integrates also with the Files app and the Share sheet. We can expect USB-C versions of these flash drives, this is just a matter of time.
    Why should anyone need a utility to do what any computer should be able to do directly? That's just silly.
    It is equally silly that "any computer" does not do that directly. You were required to download drivers from the Internet until recently to attach a  dumb hard disk. You are still required to do that on the Mac for some brands. Not to mention cameras, scanners, printers and other data capture and output devices. What computer handles those "directly"?
    I've never had to download a driver to use a hard drive with a Mac, and I've been using one since the SE/30. What brands require that now? I've never run into that. Cameras have simply shown up on my desktop when plugged in for many years, scanners and printers are almost seamlessly added via the Printers & Scanners prefpane — yes those are downloading drivers, but still.
  • Reply 68 of 121
    cgWerks said:
    macplusplus said:
    There are external flash drives that work over the Lightning port of previous iPad models. These come with their utility app that integrates also with the Files app and the Share sheet. We can expect USB-C versions of these flash drives, this is just a matter of time.
    Why should anyone need a utility to do what any computer should be able to do directly? That's just silly.
    It is equally silly that "any computer" does not do that directly. You were required to download drivers from the Internet until recently to attach a  dumb hard disk. You are still required to do that on the Mac for some brands. Not to mention cameras, scanners, printers and other data capture and output devices. What computer handles those "directly"?
    I've never had to download a driver to use a hard drive with a Mac, and I've been using one since the SE/30. What brands require that now? I've never run into that. Cameras have simply shown up on my desktop when plugged in for many years, scanners and printers are almost seamlessly added via the Printers & Scanners prefpane — yes those are downloading drivers, but still.
    The last time I downloaded a driver for High Sierra was for Western Digital My Passport 2 TB.  No operating system provides blanket support for any peripheral. The manufacturer provides the necessary utilities and drivers to the OS producer or to the buyer. Whether these are installed by a software update or downloaded explicitly is irrelevant. On iOS these are downloaded explicitly from the AppStore. Claiming that iOS does not support accessories just because of this is stupid.
  • Reply 69 of 121
    cgWerks said:  First, in terms of pricing, iOS stuff can run a bit more on the quantity model, as there are just SO many potential customers. Of course, that depends on the niche, but it's likely any niche is bigger on a platform with billions of users than millions. So, while I'm all for developers making more money, it might be possible to to get the numbers on iOS such that they can make a good living and keep the prices lower.
    I understand your point, but I think it's obvious that it doesn't really pan out in the current market. iOS hasn't been able to support higher pricing for software, and that higher pricing is a requirement if you want to see legacy desktop or console level apps. That's the reason Apple is pushing the subscription model. It's likely the only way to start moving the needle towards more $$ for more sophisticated apps. The only developers that have been willing to release full desktop versions of apps in iOS so far have typically been ones that were already competing on price and providing bargain solutions on the desktop...like the Affinity apps that are only $50 on macOS.

    And gaming is even more obvious. You always hear the comparisons with things like the Switch and "why can't Apple have those kinds of games on iOS" and the answer is very simple: developers don't currently expect iOS users to buy $60 games. $10 is considered to be a high price for a game on iOS. That's why iOS games that are full featured desktop or console games are almost always releases from a previous generation, like PS2 era GTA: San Andreas or Xbox 360 era GRID: Autosport. There are a few exceptions to that starting to show up, but it's slow progress due to the expectations for revenue generated. Games like Fortnite and PUBG already had a payment model that mirrored mobile on desktop, so it's not a coincidence that those are the only current generation blockbusters that were aggressively ported to iOS in short order. 
    edited November 2018 StrangeDays
  • Reply 70 of 121
    I exported the same 5 minute video on my new iPad Pro as well well as on last years version with a couple of filters and titles, and last years was faster by a hair. I still haven’t seen real worl results. I think people should wait for iOS 13 and wait and see.
  • Reply 71 of 121
    ai asks:
    "The real question is, does Apple truly want the iPad Pro to replace a laptop? "

    Perhaps a better question MIGHT be:   Why are they dragging their feet?
    This does not appear to be a hardware limitation. 

    - Is it to promote profits by selling everybody 2 devices?   One for content and the other for "real" work?
    - Or do they believe that everybody wants a specialized device to perform the different functions?
    - Or is it that they have locked themselves into being THE BEST at everything -- and the best way to insure that is to produce only highly specialized devices?
    - Or is it because they are working step by step to develop a quality interface that can function well in either tablet or laptop mode?
    - Or maybe they are trying to get the Mac line back up to modern standards before challenging it with an iPad capable of performing laptop functions?

    Or maybe some combination of the those things....
    In any event, right now, all we can do is guess.



  • Reply 72 of 121
    mjtomlinmjtomlin Posts: 1,819member
    cgWerks said:
    If you're primarily a content consumer, the new iPad will certainly fit the bill with a gross level of overkill for the chosen task. It is far more than capable of creating text, digital art, and animation, but falls down a slight bit on video creation not from a lack of power, but a lack of flexibility.
    Yeah, they have to fix the software/workflow side of things. It doesn't really matter how powerful it is until that is the case.
    I guess what I'm wondering at this point, is wouldn't most of the above be just fine with a $329 iPad regular?
    (I ask this not simply in jest, but as someone who is headed towards a more powerful Mac and probably iPad for mobile use... as much as I'd like an iPad Pro, I just don't think I can justify the extra cost.)

    Disagree with this sentiment... it's not Apple that has to fix anything, it's the "old guard" that needs to eventually whither away and give rise to a new generation that knows how to make a new workflow work for them.

    This all happened before when we went from CL (keyboard driven) user interfaces to GUI. People who were entrenched with the CL way of doing things thought the GUI was a major step backwards in usability. Computers with GUI were regarded as "toys".


    Also, the justification is the "extra" comes when you consider the longevity of the device. The base iPad model is fine for what you may want to do now, but will it last as long and will it be able to take advantage of any future software innovations?

    I have an original iPad that I use every day still, mainly in bed; reading, streaming video, playing card/puzzle games. And have a 9.7" iPad Pro that I use for programming, designing my house remodel, and my everyday mobile general computer use, web browsing, calendar, reminders, messaging, etc.

    And I'll also add, that I do tend to only buy and use apps that are available on both iOS and macOS. It's very nice to be able to move from one to another without having compatibility issues.
    edited November 2018 StrangeDays
  • Reply 73 of 121
    ai asks:
    "The real question is, does Apple truly want the iPad Pro to replace a laptop? "

    Perhaps a better question MIGHT be:   Why are they dragging their feet?
    This does not appear to be a hardware limitation. 

    - Is it to promote profits by selling everybody 2 devices?   One for content and the other for "real" work?
    - Or do they believe that everybody wants a specialized device to perform the different functions?
    - Or is it that they have locked themselves into being THE BEST at everything -- and the best way to insure that is to produce only highly specialized devices?
    - Or is it because they are working step by step to develop a quality interface that can function well in either tablet or laptop mode?
    - Or maybe they are trying to get the Mac line back up to modern standards before challenging it with an iPad capable of performing laptop functions?

    Or maybe some combination of the those things....
    In any event, right now, all we can do is guess.



    “The iPad is the clearest expression of our vision of the future of personal computing.” — Tim Cook


  • Reply 74 of 121
    mjtomlin said:
    cgWerks said:
    If you're primarily a content consumer, the new iPad will certainly fit the bill with a gross level of overkill for the chosen task. It is far more than capable of creating text, digital art, and animation, but falls down a slight bit on video creation not from a lack of power, but a lack of flexibility.
    Yeah, they have to fix the software/workflow side of things. It doesn't really matter how powerful it is until that is the case.
    I guess what I'm wondering at this point, is wouldn't most of the above be just fine with a $329 iPad regular?
    (I ask this not simply in jest, but as someone who is headed towards a more powerful Mac and probably iPad for mobile use... as much as I'd like an iPad Pro, I just don't think I can justify the extra cost.)

    Disagree with this sentiment... it's not Apple that has to fix anything, it's the "old guard" that needs to eventually whither away and give rise to a new generation that knows how to make a new workflow work for them.

    This all happened before when we went from CL (keyboard driven) user interfaces to GUI. People who were entrenched with the CL way of doing things thought the GUI was a major step backwards in usability. Computers with GUI were regarded as "toys".


    Also, the justification is the "extra" comes when you consider the longevity of the device. The base iPad model is fine for what you may want to do now, but will it last as long and will it be able to take advantage of any future software innovations?

    I have an original iPad that I use every day still, mainly in bed; reading, streaming video, playing card/puzzle games. And have a 9.7" iPad Pro that I use for programming, designing my house remodel, and my everyday mobile general computer use, web browsing, calendar, reminders, messaging, etc.

    And I'll also add, that I do tend to only buy and use apps that are available on both iOS and macOS. It's very nice to be able to move from one to another without having compatibility issues.
    This reflects my thinking to a t. We’ve gone from breadboarding to punch cards to teletypes to crts to gui/mouse and each and every change was met with some resistance and reasons why the new technology couldn’t do what the old technology could. These current crop of comments stating that the old hardware is good enough until the software comes of age is like saying that 640k System memory is more that anyone could need. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 75 of 121
    I find this statement contradictory “there's no reason to look down or deride anybody who's made the shift to Apple's fondleslab full-time“ since the cute term fondleslab has, in my mind, negative connotations. If you’re inclined to disagree try putting the word fondle in front of any other thing or person in your life and see how it sounds (well except for maybe cat. Fondlecat is kind of cute). 
  • Reply 76 of 121

    cgWerks said:

    I think the pushback has come somewhat due to Apple's slipping commitment to the Mac, especially at the lower end of the price range. The message from Apple seems to be... if you're a non-pro Mac user, your new machine is an iDevice. Except that iDevices aren't ready for prime-time to be such a replacement. So, people are frustrated with that situation.
    Are you still fucking that chicken? What about the goddamned Air and mini that just came out? FFS. Slipping commitment my ass.
    Indeed, people like him are living in a clueless fantasy land. In addition to the updated Mac notebooks of various sorts, the latest regular iMacs are still great machines. I’m a pro enterprise software dev and my desktop is a loaded 2011 iMac (SSD, etc) — these things have legs. Not having an annual on the nose speed bump doesn’t mean jack shit. It certainly isn’t evidence that their “commitment is slipping” or any other such nonsense. How many times do Craig et all have to spell it out at the keynotes... 
    edited November 2018 fastasleepwilliamlondon
  • Reply 77 of 121
    mac_128mac_128 Posts: 3,399member
    chasm said:
    A lot of people have picked up on the fact that for typical use, an iPad (not even Pro) is a suitable laptop replacement with some extremely minor tricks to learn (like split screen) to use it to its full potential. The iPad Pro is a suitable laptop replacement for people who primarily use a computer to create drawn art -- I predict over time it will also become the tool of choice for photo editing (it's very near that now).

    Is that true? The iPad is "very near" to being the tool of choice for photo editing?

    While I find the iPad preferable for some basic photo editing, even the 12.9" display is too small for professional photo editing, at least for the professional's setups I have seen in action. And that takes me back to both AI's point that being able to mirror the iPad's display on a much larger 4K display is great for presentations, but having to resort to manipulating the content via the smaller iPad screen makes no sense (vs. a direct input device on the larger display). Otherwise the iPad would be a perfect hybrid solution for the photo professional on the go.
    GeorgeBMaccgWerks
  • Reply 78 of 121
    thttht Posts: 3,100member
    mjtomlin said:
    cgWerks said:
    If you're primarily a content consumer, the new iPad will certainly fit the bill with a gross level of overkill for the chosen task. It is far more than capable of creating text, digital art, and animation, but falls down a slight bit on video creation not from a lack of power, but a lack of flexibility.
    Yeah, they have to fix the software/workflow side of things. It doesn't really matter how powerful it is until that is the case.
    I guess what I'm wondering at this point, is wouldn't most of the above be just fine with a $329 iPad regular?
    (I ask this not simply in jest, but as someone who is headed towards a more powerful Mac and probably iPad for mobile use... as much as I'd like an iPad Pro, I just don't think I can justify the extra cost.)

    Disagree with this sentiment... it's not Apple that has to fix anything, it's the "old guard" that needs to eventually whither away and give rise to a new generation that knows how to make a new workflow work for them.

    This all happened before when we went from CL (keyboard driven) user interfaces to GUI. People who were entrenched with the CL way of doing things thought the GUI was a major step backwards in usability. Computers with GUI were regarded as "toys".
    I think we can all agree that it is a mixture of both.

    I think it is a mistake for Apple to promote these keyboard accessories. They have to be all in, and make the software keyboard the main way of using an iPad, like the software keyboard is the main way to enter text in an iPhone. Virtually all the reviews include the Smart Keyboard Folio. That’s just a mistake as I’ve opined before. It’s the worst of all worlds, when Apple should be maximizing the iPad’s touchscreen and sensor capabilities as much as they can, in functionality, marketing and advertising.
    mac_128
  • Reply 79 of 121
    brucemcbrucemc Posts: 1,519member
    MplsP said:
    Apple has done a great job of building an incredible machine that really only excels at content consumption. They tout the processor power, etc, but what's the point if you can do little more than surf the web and compose e-mails? On top of that, Apple's own productivity apps don't even have feature parity with the desktop versions with some critical features missing. 

    The 12" iPad Pro is an impressive machine, but if you're going to expect people to pay $1500 then it damned well better have the same capabilities as the laptops you sell for the same price. For now, there's precious little benefit beyond what you get with the plain iPad for $$900 less.
    You should read the comments of this thread to understand how some are using it for "productivity" purposes.
    fastasleep
  • Reply 80 of 121
    paxmanpaxman Posts: 4,594member
    cgWerks said:
    paxman said:
    I think to judge the iPad as a useless tool on the basis that a computer is the best tool for 'you', and that the iPad would offer you no discernible advantages is both a little egotistical and ignorant.
    I think the pushback has come somewhat due to Apple's slipping commitment to the Mac, especially at the lower end of the price range. The message from Apple seems to be... if you're a non-pro Mac user, your new machine is an iDevice. Except that iDevices aren't ready for prime-time to be such a replacement. So, people are frustrated with that situation.

    I agree, that for some tasks, the iPad is completely up to the task or superior. But, there are still a lot of issues if one is trying to use them as a replacement for a desktop/laptop, as some stuff either can't be done, or is way less productive.
    I get that but there is the MBA. Personally I am a Mac guy and have no need for an iPad. In fact, I have 3 old ones I'll sell once I get around to it. I currently have a MBP but if the new Air had been out I would have chosen that. Plenty powerful for me. 
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