Benchmarked: Razer Blade Stealth versus 13-inch MacBook Pro with function keys

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 105
    donjuan said:
    Tim Cook is ripping us off big league.
    And Jony Ive is [insert favourite meme here]...

    Yet people prefer to (maybe - I doubt everyone who complains has an actual Apple product) buy and complain incessantly, wouldn't it be more prudent to go elsewhere? As an Apple customer I wouldn't be a bit upset if all the people who complain like you went with other vendors, in fact it'd be a big giggle knowing this silly problem was now a problem for *other* customer communities.
    macpluspluswatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 105
    knowitallknowitall Posts: 1,147member
    wisey said:
    Has apple insider gone mental? This is the worse matchup, one is brand new and one is a whole generation ago. 7th gen cpu vs 8th gen’s latest? When comparing cpu’s This is like putting a 2019 corvette up against a 1999. You can justify this with cost all you want, it is still ludicrous.

    I agree with this comment.  At the very least, the author should have compared a more expensive MacBook Pro that is of similar hardware vintage, to show that there are MacBook pros that are as good or better.  The extra price that Mac users pay Is for the reliability, the operating system, the frequent free upgrades and security of its operating system, the much lower incidence of malicious viruses, and long-term compatability with Mac programs over decades.  

    If somebody has actual repair statistics of the Razer and MacBook Pro, that would be a worthwhile discussion.  I have had probably ten Macbook laptops for the last two decades and experienced a keyboard failure only once and never with the recent MacBooks.  I have had only one Macbook fail on me and Apple replaced free (under warranty) in less than a week.  I also know many people who have used their MacBooks for 6 years or longer.

    I have a late 2016 Macbook with a 4-core Intel Core [email protected] CPU, 16 Gb 2133 MHz RAM LPSSE3, Radeon Pro 460 4096 Mb - Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 Mb, and 2 Tb SSD, running Mojave 10.14.1.  Its single and multi core performances are not that different from the Razer.  Interestingly, my 2018 iPad Pro 11” with an ARM 2.48 GHz 8-core (A12X) blows both the MBP 15” and the Razer out of the water.  The 2016 iPad Pro 12.9” with the A10X processor had lower single and multi-core Geekbench 4 scores.

                               Single Multi OpenCL

    ‘18 Razer Blade 4883 16017 47516

    ‘16 MBP 15”      4631 15614 20890

    ‘18 iPad Pro 11” 5014 18301 42209

    ‘16 iPad Pro 12.9” 3946 9496 29310

    To tell you the truth, I am happy with my late 2016 MBP 15”.  I use my Mac to do a lot of word-processing, drawings, excel and statistical programs.  It is more than fast enough for my purposes.  It also has a 10-hour battery life, finger print detector on the on-off button, the color touch strip, a reliable keyboard, the beautiful bright screen, and the best safety of all laptops with relatively few malicious viruses.  It runs 95% of Mac software, including programs from 20 years ago.   I have used it for nearly 2 years and will probably continue using it for at least another 2-3 years.  By that time, the iPad will likely have a Finder-like app and may be able to replace the Mac.

    Macs are excellent computers and go a long way, I’m still very happy with my late 2009 27 inch iMac (1TB ssd and 16Gb RAM now).
    The esthetics of macOS is very important to me, Windows pains the eyes ...
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 105
    saarek said:
    Has apple insider gone mental? This is the worse matchup, one is brand new and one is a whole generation ago. 7th gen cpu vs 8th gen’s latest? When comparing cpu’s This is like putting a 2019 corvette up against a 1999. You can justify this with cost all you want, it is still ludicrous.
    Apple Insider is doing what every other consumer does.  I.e. At a certain price point: What is the best value?

    This focus on value what allowed Dell to surpass almost everyone in the PC business.  They single handily killed off Gateway, and sent companies like IBM running for the hills (selling PCs).

    When you buy a MacBook, the expectations is you get value from the quality of components and longevity of the machine.  The reality for many is they’re better off buying a Windows machine now, with the full knowledge that they’ll probably need to replace it with another while the MacBook is still going strong.

    When you buy a premium car is it worth it? What about a premium washing machine?  All these comparisons are worth discussing.  There is no universal right answer...

    My biggest complaint about Apple is their pricing.  I find value in the iPhone & iPad product lines, but I don’t own a Mac.  As much as I dislike Windows 10, I don’t own a Mac.  I’m not sure I’ll ever own a Mac... because of price/value.

    The business case (enterprise) for MacBooks (as I see it) is stronger than for “personal” machines.  We’re talking about the cost for IT support factored in.  Personally, I can do everything myself so there is no cost saving.

    Would I recommend a MacBook to others? Sure.  In the right situation.  I can see value in a computer noob taking a MacBook to college, where Apple Stores are located everywhere for support. 
    You don't buy a Mac for the hardware.   You buy it for the OS and the ecosystem -- which is why they cost more.    Those things cost Apple money that they pass on to you in the selling price.
    I've never minded paying 30-35% more for a comparable Mac. For that 30-35% you get a much nicer design, reliability, premium build materials, Mac OS, long software support cycle of 6 years+ and good resale value that usually ends up recovering most of the additional outlay.

    But the new MacBook family design traits remove a lot of those advantages. You no longer get a long term reliable machine, resale value will certainly take a hit as people understandably will be nervous of buying these machines out of warranty due to the many issues that they have. From keyboards to speakers, logic board failures to port issues, the problems of the generation are everywhere, and in large reported numbers.

    I love Apple, I've been an avid apple user for 13 years since I bought my first Mac mini and fell in love with Mac OS X, but these new MacBooks have really shook my faith in Apple and their quality control. I'm not sure if I should sell my MacBook Pro now whilst it is in warranty and seek out a model from 2015 or not, or get the extended warranty and hold on until they release a new design that is actually fit for purpose.

    https://www.macworld.co.uk/feature/mac/macbook-pro-keyboard-problems-3653458/
    Mac hardware has mastered sleek design (mostly thin & light).   But, unless you compare it to junk like HP, it has never been top of the line for "reliability or premium build materials" - and "nicer design" depends on what your objectives are.

    For "reliability or premium build materials" - and (arguably) "nicer design" Lenovo has walked all over them. 
    But, it doesn't have either MacOS or the Apple ecosystem.

    Mac hardware only shines if you compare it against junk from HP, Dell, Gateway, etc....

    I'll stick to what I said:  Nobody buys Macs for the hardware -- it's all about the software (OS) and Apple's ecosystem.
    edited December 2018 tbornotwilliamlondon
  • Reply 44 of 105
    doggone said:
    What makes Mac cost effective is the total cost of ownership.  PCs have always been cheaper but tend not to last long and hobbled with windows.  
    ....
    That's only true if you compare it to HP junk (and similar).

    My 13 year old Lenovo Thinkpad T60p is running like a champ!
    ...  But, yeh, it still runs Windows.   Heavy sigh...
    williamlondon
  • Reply 45 of 105
    flocked said:
    macxpress said:
    saarek said:
    More reliable? They certainly used to be, but the speakers have blown in my brothers 2018 15” MacBook Pro, twice, already. And no, he does not sit there with volume at 100% trying to break them on purpose.

    My own 13” 2017 MacBook Pro has already had to have the entire top section replaced due to the crummy keyboard design and it’s only 8 months old.

    I really miss the reliability of my 2012 13” MacBook Pro.
    So because of 1 case, they're unreliable? LOL! Nobody ever said it was perfect. No product ever is. It's not like there were never issues with previous Macs before or after 2012. Let's get real here.
    I had both top cases replaced for my 2016 and 2018 MacBook Pro after a few months. No, I don't use it while eating or in dirty environments. I even used my 2018 Macbook only home. The keyboard is really THAT bad. Talking to a genius and asking him how often the keyboard has to be switched, he told me after a few minutes that it's quite a common issue that it has to been replaced. Much more often than on any Macbook before. And he worked in that store for 7 years.
    It's that bad, that I even now switched back to a 2015 model, accepting it's more heavy, slower and has shorter lasting battery. It's all better than the keyboard.

    I might be unfortunate, but having to other friends with the same keyboard problem makes me question that I was just unlucky. I should also note, that my MacBook Air from 2011 and 2012 lasts both until today without any keyboard problem ever. 6 years without any problems vs a few months and stuck keys.


    Does the Razer run MacOS?
    If it runs Windows 10 then even if the hardware is gold plated, it has no chance with me.
    After 20+ years of writing software for Windows, I was so glad to retire and send all my Windows kit to the reycler (Apart from one Laptop that now runs CentOS).

    Apple isn't perfect. Not by a long chalk but I've had enough of my machines being at the whim of Microsoft.

    I'm still carrying on with my 2016 15in MBP (16Gb/1TB SSD) and at the moment there really is nothing to supercede it that is also portable. I'll probably get a Mini sometime next year.
    You can install Hackintosh on the Razer, but HDMi won't work, thunderbolt 3 will make problems, waking up from sleep doesn't workall the time, the trackpad works much worse and you can't be sure to update without breaking anything. It's not a great experience. Read here: https://github.com/FadiniGIT/Razer-Blade-Stealth-Hackintosh-Guide
    The newest keyboards have a dust preventing membrane... hopefully this phenomenon is resolved now. 
    Yeh, hopefully.   But they're still crap to type on (if you can touch type instead of the "hunt & peck" method)
    williamlondon
  • Reply 46 of 105
    lkrupp said:
    Bottom line? MacBooks are overpriced TRASH. I get it. Thanks for reminding us with a 2X4 to the forehead in this side-by-side.
    Only if you compare hardware to hardware and ignore the fact that, when you buy a Mac, you also get the great OS and Apple's ecosystem -- both of which add considerable value.   Value that you have to pay for though.
    tbornotwilliamlondon
  • Reply 47 of 105
    My main problem with the Mac is that it can’t run the huge library of viruses available on the PC, nor can it keep most of the processors busy running virus scanners or my internet connection saturated downloading emergency patches.  I mean, what can a Mac do anyway?
    GeorgeBMacwilliamlondonchiaroundaboutnowwatto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 105
    tbornot said:
    My main problem with the Mac is that it can’t run the huge library of viruses available on the PC, nor can it keep most of the processors busy running virus scanners or my internet connection saturated downloading emergency patches.  I mean, what can a Mac do anyway?
    ... besides, troubleshooting is a mess. Windows is the OS easiest to maintain, all problems have one and only one solution: format the hard drive !...
    GeorgeBMactbornotchiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 105
    MplsP said:

    ....
    Unfortunately, the 13-inch Non-Touch bar MacBook Pro lags behind both in performance and value.
    ...
    I would disagree.    Or more specifically, I don't think that Apples and Apples are being compared (no pun intended!).
    That is, comparing price matched hardware, the Apple hardware will ALWAYS lose.  

    The Apple product can't win because:   A very big chunk of the price of an iOS or MacOS device is the cost of the operating system, ancillary software and Apple's ecosystem -- which I would guess is probably about a third of the total cost of the machine.  (Other hardware vendors buy a far cheaper OS and simply don't have an ecosystem to speak of).

    Or, to put it yet another way:   Theoretically, you could buy a Mac and install Windows over top of MacOS and run it as Windows machine.   But, would ANYBODY do that?   No!  That would be incredibly stupid!   They buy it for the OS and Apple's ecosystem, not the hardware.

    Perhaps a more fair hardware comparison would be to compare a Mac to a Windows machine that cost, say, 2/3's as much as the Mac?   Say:   a $1,000 Windows machine to a $1,500 Mac?   Now, that might be a fair comparison.




    What are you talking about? When you buy a windows computer, the cost of Windows and the windows ‘ecosystem’ (whatever that may be) are included. The OS may not be programmed by the same company, but the cost of the OS is still included in the machine. As far as other software goes, the vast majority of the software included with a Mac can also be obtained for free for a windows machine. 

    If you want to argure that OS X is a better OS and therefore worth more, you can, but that is strictly personal opinion and depended on your use. For other people, using OS X  may be worth less. To arbitrarily argue that “Mac’s get to cost 50% more” when you make any comparison just because they’re your favorite brand is BS if you ask me. When I look at buying a product, I look at what it does for me vs how much it costs. You can argue that OS X is more reliable and trouble free and is therefore worth paying for, but that has nothing to do with development or ecosystem costs.

    What am I taking about when I say that MacOS and Apple's ecosystem add about a third (my estimate) to the price of a Mac?

    No, I am not talking about their relative value to the end user.  I am talking about cost to produce.

    First:  Windows machines simply don't have an ecosystem behind them so there is no cost there.   They come with some bloatware, but that's about it.   If you don't know what Apple's ecosystem is, you're in the wrong forum.

    Second:  MacOS and Windows are both OS's and cost about the same to produce and maintain.  But their cost per machine is vastly different.  For example:  Assume both cost $1million to develop.  Then assume Microsoft sells a million copies -- that $1 per machine.   But, if Apple sells only 100,000 copies, that's $10 per machine.  (while the actual numbers are hypotethical, the ratio is not)
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 105
    I think the trackpad alone is enough to rule out any Windows machine. The UX with the Apple trackpads is far superior than anything else on the market. Every Windows user I see with a laptop has a mouse, why? Yes Apple does have issues, but their customer support is amazing and usually handles the situation perfectly. The extra effort they put into their design and software is worth the additional price. Adding the resale value only makes the cost difference that much less important - try and buy an 8 year old Mac on eBay right now and compare that to an 8 year old PC ... exactly.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 51 of 105
    I think the trackpad alone is enough to rule out any Windows machine. The UX with the Apple trackpads is far superior than anything else on the market. Every Windows user I see with a laptop has a mouse, why? Yes Apple does have issues, but their customer support is amazing and usually handles the situation perfectly. The extra effort they put into their design and software is worth the additional price. Adding the resale value only makes the cost difference that much less important - try and buy an 8 year old Mac on eBay right now and compare that to an 8 year old PC ... exactly.
    Actually, I totally disagree with that:   I love the trackpad on my Thinkpads -- they're sensitivity is better and the left/right & scroll buttons add considerable functionality.  I tend to use a mouse more with my MacBook.

    Added:  But, when I use my friend's HP I tend to use a mouse because the trackpad is crap -- and so is the keyboard.
    edited December 2018 williamlondon
  • Reply 52 of 105
    FatmanFatman Posts: 223member
    512 GB HD should be the absolute minimum spec for all models. Files are getting bigger and storage is shrinking. I understand the SSD component is expensive, but they need to find a way to make this happen.
    williamlondonGeorgeBMac
  • Reply 53 of 105
    saarek said:
    “That's not the only piece of the puzzle, however, as Mac users will note Apple laptops tout a superior design, are more reliable and come with a trouble-free operating system.”

    And, as others here have stated, the Mac will have higher resale value.  Let’s take this review right here, bump up to the i7 with 16GB RAM and 256GB storage at whatever higher price that’ll cost in the 13” MacBook Pro, set a bookmark here in time and revisit this in two or three years, at about the time you’d replace that Razer.  Sell both machines and then compare the total cost of ownership.  And while you’re at it, give a recap of your experiences with both machines, amount of time doing your own fiddling to keep the OS running, amount of time you ran Windows on the Mac versus amount of time you ran MacOS on the Razer (opps, you can’t, can you?), amount of frustration experienced with each machine, how readily each machine took OS updates and any issues experienced with those, etc.  
    I’m not sure the resale on the 2017 MacBook will be that good. Once the 4 years from purchase is up (and so out of Apple’s keyboard repair programme) you’ll have to pay more than the machine is worth to fix a sticky keyboard key. I don’t think people will pay a lot for a near guaranteed lemon.

    For the older machines you’re bang on. I paid £999 for my 2012 MacBook Pro and sold it for £350 this year. 6 year old machine retained 35% of its price, although I up the ram and add an SSD.

    But no one will give me a good price for a failure prone model, as soon as the keyboard warranty is set to expire I’m dumping it. If the Keyboard keeps failing I will probably have to dump it sooner, but then what are my options. New models that still fail, albeit not as frequently, or a windows machine. Neither option is really palitable to me.
    Apple will most likely keep repairing the keyboard if you have any recurring issues with that model.
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 54 of 105
    FatmanFatman Posts: 223member
    doggone said:
    What makes Mac cost effective is the total cost of ownership.  PCs have always been cheaper but tend not to last long and hobbled with windows.  
    The first gen retina MBP that I got in 2012 worked perfectly for 4 years.  Eventually the battery wore out and I replaced it for $299.  Apple changed out the keyboard and top surface with the battery.  They also replaced the screen for free which had elimination issues.  The key for me was that the machine was as fast after 4 years as when I bought it.  After the repair, I upgraded the SSD to 512GB and replaced my aging Mac mini as the house media server..
    Totally agree. I have a 2011 iMac that runs very well & has a great display, I still use as a base home computer. My windows machines from the same era have long died or have been decommisioned because they are simply unusable due to performance. I’m ready to upgrade but I won’t until there is a new form factor w/8th gen+ CPU and an ‘economical’ 16GB/2TB HD option i.e. sub $1,800. Maybe this will happen in 2019?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 105
    tzeshantzeshan Posts: 1,857member
    Windows are useless without an external mouse. LOL This is what I see from all Windows laptop users. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 105
    viclauyyc said:
    Why is this review based on price and not similarly spec'd machines? Does anyone who buys Apple buy because they're competitive in price? We all know Apple will cost more, I'd think a better review would be seeing how two machines similar in specs perform against one another.
    Many people buy computer base on the price. Especially parents buy computer for their kids. Not even can or willing to pay the 50% Apple tax. 

    Seriouly, if both machines can run MacOS flawlessly, how many people will still buy Apple? Apple is always a hardware company. People willing to pay extra for the quality and the OS. But is the quality still here?

    I am still using my 2010 17” MacBook Pro which I pay big bucks for. It is now slow but going strong. If I buy a 2018 MBP, will it still be running in 2026? I doubt it.

    Apple sacrifice usability for thinnest or the look. Why a professional laptop need to be that thin?

    User can’t easily recover HD data if the motherboard is dead. This is not really professional oriented. In the past, when someone’s computer die, they just put the old HD to a new one and keep working. Can we do that with new MBP?

    Why a professional laptop don’t have the most common connector in the world and need to take a dock everywhere?

    Why a professional laptop has a such unreliable keyboard that is so easily stop working and need to replace with half of the laptop?

    Why the i9 can’t even run in full speed for 20 seconds or risk to toast the CPU?

    The answer is simple. MBP is not really designed for professional user anymore. It is for Prosumer market. It is for people with money who careless about functionality. It is for people care for the looks.

    Just look at how frequent Mac Pro get updates can tell you how much Apple care about the professional market. 


    Sure parents will generally not spend a lot on a kids computer.  They can buy any laptop for less that $500.  It will likely be heavy, easily get loaded with Malware and fall to pieces after a few years. Go ahead and get a PC if that is for you.
    Every Mac I have bought has lasted over 5 years.  And I don't have to worry about software, OS or security. Their longevity and staying power seems to be increasing over time.  My 1st gen rMBP has lasted for 6 years and is still as fast as it was when I got it.   The 2016 MBP is even better because it has a smaller footprint and is 50% lighter with the same screen size.  
    HD die a lot faster than SSD, especially those for laptops.  SSDs are a lot faster and are no longer a huge bottleneck.  How often does a motherboard die, and even it is does a Time Machine back up can restore everything if you have it set up properly.
    If you are using a MBP for professional applications then wouldn't you have a external monitor, keyboard, mouse etc. The 15 inch MBP has 4 TB3 ports that allow you to configure externals how you like.  I got a dock that provides all the back compatibility I need and can charge from either side. Way more flexible that in the past.

    pscooter63watto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 105
    macxpressmacxpress Posts: 4,730member
    jkichline said:
    macxpress said:
    saarek said:
    More reliable? They certainly used to be, but the speakers have blown in my brothers 2018 15” MacBook Pro, twice, already. And no, he does not sit there with volume at 100% trying to break them on purpose.

    My own 13” 2017 MacBook Pro has already had to have the entire top section replaced due to the crummy keyboard design and it’s only 8 months old.

    I really miss the reliability of my 2012 13” MacBook Pro.
    So because of 1 case, they're unreliable? LOL! Nobody ever said it was perfect. No product ever is. It's not like there were never issues with previous Macs before or after 2012. Let's get real here.
    I had my 2016 MacBook Pro at the Genius Bar a total of five times before they swapped it for a new 2017 model. Had everything replaced on it at least once except the screen. I don’t even use the built in keyboard most of the time and still had it fail... twice!  This and the battery was toast in six months and loose TB3 ports...

    I’ve had the 2018 model for a while now and it’s much better. Keyboard is quieter and everything seems to be working well (knocks on wood)
    The point is....its not like stuff didn't happen before 2012 as some seem to think. It just goes back to the back in the good ole days when everything was great under Steve and nothing bad ever happened. Apple was perfect between 2000-2012! Never any significant issues with any Mac what so ever! 

    And, it's not like Apple never charged a lot for a Mac, perhaps overcharged for a particular model. We've had MacBook Pros and PowerBook G4's in the $4,000 range, iMacs that were quite expensive for its time, PowerMacs that were expensive as well, and lets not forget the G4 Cube which was quite expensive. 
    chiawatto_cobra
  • Reply 58 of 105
    saareksaarek Posts: 1,105member
    macxpress said:
    jkichline said:
    macxpress said:
    saarek said:
    More reliable? They certainly used to be, but the speakers have blown in my brothers 2018 15” MacBook Pro, twice, already. And no, he does not sit there with volume at 100% trying to break them on purpose.

    My own 13” 2017 MacBook Pro has already had to have the entire top section replaced due to the crummy keyboard design and it’s only 8 months old.

    I really miss the reliability of my 2012 13” MacBook Pro.
    So because of 1 case, they're unreliable? LOL! Nobody ever said it was perfect. No product ever is. It's not like there were never issues with previous Macs before or after 2012. Let's get real here.
    I had my 2016 MacBook Pro at the Genius Bar a total of five times before they swapped it for a new 2017 model. Had everything replaced on it at least once except the screen. I don’t even use the built in keyboard most of the time and still had it fail... twice!  This and the battery was toast in six months and loose TB3 ports...

    I’ve had the 2018 model for a while now and it’s much better. Keyboard is quieter and everything seems to be working well (knocks on wood)
    The point is....its not like stuff didn't happen before 2012 as some seem to think. It just goes back to the back in the good ole days when everything was great under Steve and nothing bad ever happened. Apple was perfect between 2000-2012! Never any significant issues with any Mac what so ever! 

    And, it's not like Apple never charged a lot for a Mac, perhaps overcharged for a particular model. We've had MacBook Pros and PowerBook G4's in the $4,000 range, iMacs that were quite expensive for its time, PowerMacs that were expensive as well, and lets not forget the G4 Cube which was quite expensive. 
    Apples MacBook Pro, and the older G4 line frequently had issues with the GPU’s, and I know some had issues with their logic boards. 

    But none, to my memory, have had the clusterfuck of issues that this generation have had.
  • Reply 59 of 105
    gatorguygatorguy Posts: 19,818member
    I notice there is no battery life comparison - because no one is interested in that feature these days...  :D
    Because that "staff" know how they will be ridiculed if they put the battery benchmark in the article. The battery life is most probably two hours or so, because a gaming laptop is expected to be used mostly plugged in. That one is a laptop for teens, who want it to carry their games alongside when hanging out with friends. Teens like that brand's flashy keyboards and mice too. 
    Testing by other tech blogs are coming up with around 6.5 hours. Not great but not horrid. 
    edited December 2018
  • Reply 60 of 105
    What the article fails to mention is that the Razer Blade Stealth is specifically intended to be a gaming laptop, not a workstation. The additional irony is that a lot of PC gamers consider $1600 to be far too expensive. 
    watto_cobra
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