Apple & Google accused of supporting 'gender apartheid' by hosting Saudi woman-tracking ap...

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 61
    Does the app really matter? I'm fairly certain that pre-mobile phone days, they were able to do the same things. If the app is removed, I'm fairly sure they will continue. Makes as much sense as any censorship.
  • Reply 22 of 61
    I am not sure how many people read the story of the Saudi woman who recently 'escaped' to Canada and got political asylum. The only way she was able to do this (after getting her passport by 'stealing' it from her father) was by getting into this app on her father's iPhone ( she obviously had the password) and changing the notification emails/texts to her own email/phone number. This meant that when she left the country she was able to deal with the text alert when her passport was scanned. Saudi Arabia is the worlds largest women's prison.
    StrangeDaysrobbyxmontrosemacspatchythepiratewatto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 61
    kestralkestral Posts: 209member
    Useful for pimps.
    patchythepirate
  • Reply 24 of 61
    uraharaurahara Posts: 192member

    It should be pointed out that since removing the app doesn’t affect the law, removing it will almost assuredly make traveling harder for women (since the app now presumably makes it way easier for men to approve travel compared to the old method). 

    I’d hope that Apple would actually talk with Saudi women and get their take on it, to determine what course of action has the least impact on human rights. 

    So it doesnt't restrict the movement. It gives the abality to allow easily for woman to travel. Nice! Actually, it's a good app.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 61
    boltsfan17boltsfan17 Posts: 2,105member
    loopless said:
    I am not sure how many people read the story of the Saudi woman who recently 'escaped' to Canada and got political asylum. The only way she was able to do this (after getting her passport by 'stealing' it from her father) was by getting into this app on her father's iPhone ( she obviously had the password) and changing the notification emails/texts to her own email/phone number. This meant that when she left the country she was able to deal with the text alert when her passport was scanned. Saudi Arabia is the worlds largest women's prison.
    I was actually just reading an article about a woman who fled to Australia a few years ago. She did the exact same thing. Got onto her fathers phone and changed the permissions for her to travel. She then turned off notifications on his phone. Even if Apple/Google removed the app, it's not going to make a difference. Absher also has a desktop version so someone would still be able to receive notifications if a women was leaving the country. 
    edited February 8 watto_cobra
  • Reply 26 of 61
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc. Unfortunately capitalist greed is spineless when standing up for what is really important. 
    Your disdain for capitalism is clouding your ability to critically think. Do you think capitalism exists in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, et al.? Please refrain from incorporating your personal issues with legitimate ones of those impacted. This has nothing to do with capitalism. This has to do with religion and other sociological issues in certain parts of the world.
    cgWerkswatto_cobramacseeker
  • Reply 27 of 61
    An app designed to track you doesn’t work if you don’t carry a phone. This is just ridiculously paranoid.
    You missed where it mentions that you can get notifications when a passport is used.


    Is this really an App or is it just a web interface to a Saudi Gov't site? I can see the latter would make it harder to block as it may not directly violate the App Store terms
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 61
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 373unconfirmed, member
    Was reading Apple news today and wow, I'm just waiting for the articles that conveniently leave Google out of the story.

    A few headlines I read today after scrolling a few seconds:

    "Apple finally fixes FaceTime bug"

    "Apple loses retail chief"
  • Reply 29 of 61
    Gotta catch’em all!! 😂 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 61
    steven n. said:
    melgross said:
    Apple definitely shouldn’t have this app.  Now that it’s public that they do, we can hope that they will swiftly remove it from the store. They should also prevent the ones that are already out from working.

    both Apple and Google need much stricter guidelines, and need to more rigorously police their stores. I know that Google’s attitude has always been to turn away from what’s in there as they were trying to increase the apps to meet Apple’s numbers. But that race is long over. Google now needs to do whatever it can to stop malicious apps of any kind. Apple needs to step its own wfforts up.
    Mel,

    I have always enjoyed your posts but I think this is more detailed than the simple "They should have the app". Given this app is little more than a wrapper on existing data on the Saudi government web site, is the logical conclusion Apple's Safari should filter out the specific pages allowing this tracking? Or is that against Net Neutrality? 
    Comparisons with Safari always fail because Safari is merely an HTTP browser to view files hosted and served by other servers, existing and doing so independently of Safari/Apple. Not so with iOS App Store apps, which are hosted and served by Apple on the App Store infrastructure and use Apple’s servers for notifications, etc. It’s a very different level of involvement — none with Safari, all-in with App Store apps. 
    edited February 8 watto_cobracommand_f
  • Reply 31 of 61
    urahara said:

    It should be pointed out that since removing the app doesn’t affect the law, removing it will almost assuredly make traveling harder for women (since the app now presumably makes it way easier for men to approve travel compared to the old method). 

    I’d hope that Apple would actually talk with Saudi women and get their take on it, to determine what course of action has the least impact on human rights. 

    So it doesnt't restrict the movement. It gives the abality to allow easily for woman to travel. Nice! Actually, it's a good app.

    Friend,

    There is no need for the snark. 

    The law is wrong and a human rights violation. I’m suggesting that Apple consult with Saudi women (you know, the people actually affected by this unjust law) to figure out the best course of action, since removing it may cause them inconvenience while having no discernible change on the law. Keeping the app and removing it both have consequences, particularly since it sounds like the functionality is available on the Saudi government website. I’m just thinking that if I’m a woman in Saudia Arabia, I might want to work to have the law repealed altogether, rather than make it even more difficult to travel in the short term.

    If Saudi women’s rights groups think it causes disproportionate harm, then remove it...hell, block the site/page on Safari too. 

    watto_cobra
  • Reply 32 of 61

    steven n. said:
    melgross said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc. Unfortunately capitalist greed is spineless when standing up for what is really important. 
    Oh, please. You think socialist countries are devoid of graft and corruption? They are the worst.
    Care to back that assertion up with facts or data? I'm of the opinion human greed & corruption isn't limited to political dogma. 
    Venezuela? North Korea? The simple fact human greed and corruption isn't limited to political dogma is the exact reason placing all the power into a centrally controlled state always seems to end oppression and human atrocities. It becomes easy to justify sacrificing the sanctity of the individual to allow for a "greater good". Stalin and Chairman Mao happily killed 10's of millions in the quest for their politically correct society.
    You didn’t read carefully. I didn’t say cite me examples of corruption in socialist countries. I said back up the claim that corruption is worse in socialist states than any other historic form of human governance. Good luck with that. 

    FYI, North Korea is socialist in name only. It’s a dictatorship, totalitarian, etc. Far cry from Sweden and other democratic parliamentary countries practicing socialism. 
    edited February 8
  • Reply 33 of 61
    melgross said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc. Unfortunately capitalist greed is spineless when standing up for what is really important. 
    Oh, please. You think socialist countries are devoid of graft and corruption? They are the worst.
    Oh, please have you ever lived in a "socialist" country? How about spent a week in one? Your comment most likely a flame illuminates how little you know.
  • Reply 34 of 61
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,078administrator
    If you can't see your post, it's time to revisit the commenting guidelines at the bottom of the post. One of you was caught in the sweep, and the other was not.

    Most of your post was fine. Part of it was not.
    macseeker
  • Reply 35 of 61
    acejax805 said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc. Unfortunately capitalist greed is spineless when standing up for what is really important. 
    Your disdain for capitalism is clouding your ability to critically think. Do you think capitalism exists in Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, et al.? Please refrain from incorporating your personal issues with legitimate ones of those impacted. This has nothing to do with capitalism. This has to do with religion and other sociological issues in certain parts of the world.
    I'm talking about western corporations who are happy to do business with them despite their horrible policies regarding human rights. mentioned. My distain is for companies who put profits above all. 
  • Reply 36 of 61

    An app designed to track you doesn’t work if you don’t carry a phone. This is just ridiculously paranoid.
    If you read the article you'll see the app's alert function is not dependent on a phone's location. In other words, it's moot whether a woman fleeing the country has a phone in her possession or not. If you're truly interested in this topic you could start by Googling "Filipino maids in Saudi Arabia abuse"
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 37 of 61
    urahara said:

    It should be pointed out that since removing the app doesn’t affect the law, removing it will almost assuredly make traveling harder for women (since the app now presumably makes it way easier for men to approve travel compared to the old method). 

    I’d hope that Apple would actually talk with Saudi women and get their take on it, to determine what course of action has the least impact on human rights. 

    So it doesnt't restrict the movement. It gives the abality to allow easily for woman to travel. Nice! Actually, it's a good app.
    Well, you did admit in an early post you were confused.
    patchythepirate
  • Reply 38 of 61
    volcanvolcan Posts: 1,763member
    Things are slowly changing for women in Saudi Arabia. Some have been rebelling the clothing restrictions, dancing and making music videos, even risking jail time. It is now legal for women to drive cars. In recent Olympics the women were allowed to wear more professional athletic clothing although for the most part their hair was still covered. They can wear more fashionable clothing at the beach as well. It may take a number of years, but the trend is heading in the direction more freedom for women. Access to the Internet is likely to play a major role in bringing more freedom and awareness for them, at least one can hope.


    command_f
  • Reply 39 of 61
    steven n. said:
    melgross said:
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc. Unfortunately capitalist greed is spineless when standing up for what is really important. 
    Oh, please. You think socialist countries are devoid of graft and corruption? They are the worst.
    Care to back that assertion up with facts or data? I'm of the opinion human greed & corruption isn't limited to political dogma. 
    Venezuela? North Korea? The simple fact human greed and corruption isn't limited to political dogma is the exact reason placing all the power into a centrally controlled state always seems to end oppression and human atrocities. It becomes easy to justify sacrificing the sanctity of the individual to allow for a "greater good". Stalin and Chairman Mao happily killed 10's of millions in the quest for their politically correct society.
    "Venezuela", "North Korea" is "data"?

    What about "Philippines", "Italy"? (Neither is "socialist").
    edited February 8
  • Reply 40 of 61
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 1,893member
    spice-boy said:
    Apple as well as most (Western) mega corporations need to stop enabling oppressors by giving them the tools treat half of those counties population as property. We are all humans, we are born with rights and they should all be the same no matter your gender, race....etc.
    Unfortunately, Western society has tossed out the foundations of a consistent ethic... and we're now heading post-truth and emotive for a sense of direction. Apple seems to take more of an, 'when in Saudi Arabia, do as the Saudis do' (or China, etc.). This will clash with some other's priorities of what rights who should get. They will fight it out in terms of PR and the one who can muster the most power will win. :disappointed: I guess it's called, progress or something like that.

    command_f
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