Apple plans new 16- to 16.5-inch MacBook Pro in 2019 aimed at pro designers

1246

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 106
    thttht Posts: 3,249member
    Hmm.., mind that the current MBP15 is a 15.4” 16:10 display. 16” and 16.5” 16:10 displays will only be 8% and 15% larger. If the model has a 16” display, it will likely replace the current MBP15 model, not be in addition to it. The 16.5” is kind of iffy to me at 15% larger on whether it will be a model in addition to the current 15.4” display model or be in place of the 15.4” model.

    Either way, first real form factor change in MacBook Pro in 8 years, and arguably, all the way back to 2006 when the first Intel MacBook Pro came out with a 15.4” display. PowerBook G4 15 models were 15.2”.

    Would be good too if the 13.3” MacBook Pro model moved to 14” so as to provide more differentiation between the MBA at 13.3.
  • Reply 62 of 106
    macxpress said:

    viclauyyc said:
    Since when iPad /Mac need to reboot every single time?
    See post #33. I have to reboot my Mac regularly to correct odd behaviours. Things like pull-downs in iTunes appearing with what's below them overlaid on top, menu selections that won't respond, keyboard shortcuts producing unexpected results -- stuff that's alarming when it happens, but is miraculously cured by a reboot.

    The same is true of our iOS devices. It happens much less frequently to them, but they'll periodically refuse to connect via Bluetooth, or playlists will be missing from the Music app, or Mail refuses to update, all of which are resolved by power cycling.
    Quite odd though that this isn't a widespread issue. Maybe it's time for a reload of your OS from scratch. 
    While my particular case may require more frequent reboots than is typical, I don't think occasional restarts to refocus a confused machine are all that unusual. We all do it from time to time, we just don't think about it. When someone tells you their machine is doing something peculiar, what's the first thing you tell them? "Tty turning it off then on again."

    Even my mini in the living room, which does nothing but provide access to my media library via Home Sharing, benefits from restarting it every few days. It seems to get tired and gradually slows down. After a restart it's refreshed and runs at full speed again. It probably doesn't really NEED the reboot, as the only affect of whatever's happening is that the UI becomes slower to respond, but it does tend to contradict the assertion that the only reason to ever reboot a Mac is after a software update that requires it.
    I don't doubt your problems, but it's not normal at all.

    My own anecdotal situation is a family of 4 with 8 Macs running nearly all the time, a host of iOS devices, and a few other Macs that aren't used all the time.  Powered on 24/7: 5 laptops, 2 minis and an older tower.  Various uses from servers that are required to be on 24/7, to media center that is on 24/7 but idle much of the day, dev machines that get worked hard for 12-14 hours/day and a couple with typical usage off and on for much of the day every day.  NONE of these machines need to be rebooted with any regularity, typically only needing reboots when upgrading system software.  I recently experienced one single hard crash, but I had been thoroughly abusing that laptop for months with hundreds of browser tabs across several browsers, xcode running with 4 separate projects open, multiple iOS simulators, at least a dozen open shell sessions at any time, and a ton of other stuff as well.  And even with all that kind of use, I hard crash less than once/year.  I haven't heard of a single hard crash on any of the other machines in, well, years if ever.

    [ update: actually I just remembered there was one laptop a few years ago running what seemed like a bad version of an older OS, maybe Yosemite or ElCapitan, but it was only that one machine, and only when I was booted into that one particular OS, and only when I started pushing its limits.  I saw a few hard crashes, but I simply stopped using that version of OS X on that machine and everything was fine. ]

    Anecdotes are dangerous, and I hate when others try to use them against me, but I know many, many people that are Mac-only families and I don't know anyone who has experienced anything even remotely close to what you're describing.  I strongly suspect that you've got some faulty individual hardware or you're running some really strangely invasive software.  (?)

    Bluetooth problems I can totally imagine, and things like missing playlists aren't hardware or even likely to be OS-related. 

    If what you're experiencing was commonplace there would be a lot more outcry here.

    [ update 2: do you possibly have off-brand memory installed?  That can cause weird problems that don't show up all the time and can be extremely hard to diagnose. ]
    edited February 19 fastasleep
  • Reply 63 of 106
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
  • Reply 64 of 106
    For me personally, the news of a potential redesign of the MacBook Pro is exciting, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Count me in the group that finds all the capabilities that have been removed from the newer "pro" laptops in the name of thinness and simplicity really disappointing.

    Clearly USB-C is strong technically, and it might be a great solution eventually, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and isn't likely to be for a few years.  I use multiple laptops myself for different purposes, and several external drives that migrate between different devices, and I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to attempt to travel around and keep a full set of dongles for each one of them and have them wherever I happen to be.  I move around a lot between different locations, sometimes with a case when traveling, but more often around home or office between different locations without a travel bag.  I'm simply not going to carry dongles around with me every time I get up and move around, nor am I going to keep separate dongles plugged into each and every one of the probably dozen or so external drives we use.  Plus they'd have to be pulled in and out all the time when moving between machines.

    The lack of even a single USB-A slot on what is called a "pro" machine is crazy.  Desktops, sure, buy a hub or a couple dongles that permanently reside with the machine.  Doesn't work for laptops.

    I also use the SD card slots in all my laptops, if not every day, maybe every other day.  Not just for typical camera photos and videos, but GoPro videos, and pocket computers use these cards for main storage as well.

    Loss of magsafe is very sad.  Sure, the newer charging system has its benefits, but I'm constantly moving between locations and laptops and I keep a few power adapters in different locations for convenience.  I can grab a magsafe and get it connected far more quickly and easily than any other connector, reaching around to grab a cable on one side or the other of the desk, or in a dark or nearly dark room.  I can literally do it from any angle, without even needing to see that actual edge of the laptop.  How many of you use your computers in bed with sleeping spouses?  Show of hands?  Magsafe makes it a lot easier to get that power cable connected in the dark.

    Loss of the power lights for battery charge?  I use that on multiple machines, multiple times, Every Single Day.

    Batteries are a pain in the ass to deal with now, and I strongly believe that "pro" machines should allow knowledgeable users to upgrade memory and disk/ssds, but I can sort of live with things that you only have to deal with once every couple or few years.  The painful stuff is what affects you all the time on a regular basis.

    And the most regular basis item of all?  I can only hope the new machines will have some kind of option for a non-glare display.  Again, not holding my breath.  The mirrored crap that's been out for the past 6 or 7 years is quite literally unusable to me.  I'm stuck on a 2012 MBPro, which is the most up-to-date Apple laptop I can use.  I have a backup for when this dies, but eventually I'm not sure what I'll do.  I really hate the idea of a Franken-MacBookPro, but it may eventually come to that.  So I'm crossing my fingers that this will be the cycle, but not really believing it will be.

    Certainly everyone has different needs, not everyone's will match mine, and Apple is not a company that likes to deal with lots of SKUs. But pros have been clamoring for more full-featured Mac laptops for a long time, and it's frustrating that a market segment that buys a lot of hardware, is willing to pay for it, updates it more than average, and paid no small part in keeping Apple alive during their lean years is being ignored.
  • Reply 65 of 106

    mattinoz said:
    dig48109 said:

    64GB should also be an option since I can forsee a lot of people would like to use a VR headset. Like using a HTC Vive. 

    Currently, this affects a lot of VR development on the Mac platform. they need a more hefty laptop to drive VR 
    Why would you need 64GB of RAM for VR?

    Also, the obvious solution for now is an eGPU for VR.
    Or two tiny eGPUs with timing system between them like the airpods do with sound but vastly more bandwidth.

    Sort of like the GPU cores in the Aseries with each core running a vertical segment of screen. As capiblity improves the slices get smaller and would let them segment the screen on the pivot point of each eye.
    I have no idea what you’re talking about. 
  • Reply 66 of 106

    DuhSesame said:

    DuhSesame said:
    Considering the maximum resolution (more space) for a 15” is 3840x2400 (1920x1200 @2x), I guess a 16”~16.5” would be 5120x3200 (2560x1600 @2x).

    The actual resolution would bump from 2880x1800 (1440x900 @2x) to 3360x2100 (1680x1050 @2x), and the new native will be 3840x2400 (1920x1200 @2x).
    The max resolution is 2880x1800 not 3840x2400. It scales to 1920x1200 but not at 2x resolution.
    3840x2400 is the maximum scaled resolution (which simulates 1920x1200, but 2x the scale).  The native resolution is 2880x1800 and simulates 1440x900.
    The max resolution is 2880x1800 pixels in a 15” MBP screen. Not sure why you keep posting about 3840x2400, there's no setting that crams in more pixels than are physically in the display.
    edited February 19
  • Reply 67 of 106
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Well then there's a lot of assholes out there because I watch twitch all the time and people always laugh at people who have Mac or suggest using a Mac for gaming. While the console gaming community is large, the PC gaming community is also quite large. 
  • Reply 68 of 106
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Well then there's a lot of assholes out there because I watch twitch all the time and people always laugh at people who have Mac or suggest using a Mac for gaming. While the console gaming community is large, the PC gaming community is also quite large. 
    Yes, that's true.

    I'm just saying, laughing at someone for "wanting to play games on their Mac" is stupid. You can absolutely play games on a Mac. It might not compete with a high end PC, but it's not like you cannot play many, many games adequately on a Mac. 
  • Reply 69 of 106

    blah64 said:
    For me personally, the news of a potential redesign of the MacBook Pro is exciting, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Count me in the group that finds all the capabilities that have been removed from the newer "pro" laptops in the name of thinness and simplicity really disappointing.

    Clearly USB-C is strong technically, and it might be a great solution eventually, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and isn't likely to be for a few years.  I use multiple laptops myself for different purposes, and several external drives that migrate between different devices, and I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to attempt to travel around and keep a full set of dongles for each one of them and have them wherever I happen to be.  I move around a lot between different locations, sometimes with a case when traveling, but more often around home or office between different locations without a travel bag.  I'm simply not going to carry dongles around with me every time I get up and move around, nor am I going to keep separate dongles plugged into each and every one of the probably dozen or so external drives we use.  Plus they'd have to be pulled in and out all the time when moving between machines.

    The lack of even a single USB-A slot on what is called a "pro" machine is crazy.  Desktops, sure, buy a hub or a couple dongles that permanently reside with the machine.  Doesn't work for laptops.

    I also use the SD card slots in all my laptops, if not every day, maybe every other day.  Not just for typical camera photos and videos, but GoPro videos, and pocket computers use these cards for main storage as well.

    Loss of magsafe is very sad.  Sure, the newer charging system has its benefits, but I'm constantly moving between locations and laptops and I keep a few power adapters in different locations for convenience.  I can grab a magsafe and get it connected far more quickly and easily than any other connector, reaching around to grab a cable on one side or the other of the desk, or in a dark or nearly dark room.  I can literally do it from any angle, without even needing to see that actual edge of the laptop.  How many of you use your computers in bed with sleeping spouses?  Show of hands?  Magsafe makes it a lot easier to get that power cable connected in the dark.

    Loss of the power lights for battery charge?  I use that on multiple machines, multiple times, Every Single Day.

    Batteries are a pain in the ass to deal with now, and I strongly believe that "pro" machines should allow knowledgeable users to upgrade memory and disk/ssds, but I can sort of live with things that you only have to deal with once every couple or few years.  The painful stuff is what affects you all the time on a regular basis.

    And the most regular basis item of all?  I can only hope the new machines will have some kind of option for a non-glare display.  Again, not holding my breath.  The mirrored crap that's been out for the past 6 or 7 years is quite literally unusable to me.  I'm stuck on a 2012 MBPro, which is the most up-to-date Apple laptop I can use.  I have a backup for when this dies, but eventually I'm not sure what I'll do.  I really hate the idea of a Franken-MacBookPro, but it may eventually come to that.  So I'm crossing my fingers that this will be the cycle, but not really believing it will be.

    Certainly everyone has different needs, not everyone's will match mine, and Apple is not a company that likes to deal with lots of SKUs. But pros have been clamoring for more full-featured Mac laptops for a long time, and it's frustrating that a market segment that buys a lot of hardware, is willing to pay for it, updates it more than average, and paid no small part in keeping Apple alive during their lean years is being ignored.
    You're going to be waiting forever for USB-A, SD, MagSafe, or matte screens to come back. I came from the a 2011 with Antiglare screen and the latest screens are really not that bad as far as reflectivity goes.

    Your use case with USB-A and SD cards, just get a keychain adapter for each and call it a day. 

    It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 
  • Reply 70 of 106
    blah64blah64 Posts: 940member

    blah64 said:
    For me personally, the news of a potential redesign of the MacBook Pro is exciting, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Count me in the group that finds all the capabilities that have been removed from the newer "pro" laptops in the name of thinness and simplicity really disappointing.

    Clearly USB-C is strong technically, and it might be a great solution eventually, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and isn't likely to be for a few years.  I use multiple laptops myself for different purposes, and several external drives that migrate between different devices, and I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to attempt to travel around and keep a full set of dongles for each one of them and have them wherever I happen to be.  I move around a lot between different locations, sometimes with a case when traveling, but more often around home or office between different locations without a travel bag.  I'm simply not going to carry dongles around with me every time I get up and move around, nor am I going to keep separate dongles plugged into each and every one of the probably dozen or so external drives we use.  Plus they'd have to be pulled in and out all the time when moving between machines.

    The lack of even a single USB-A slot on what is called a "pro" machine is crazy.  Desktops, sure, buy a hub or a couple dongles that permanently reside with the machine.  Doesn't work for laptops.

    I also use the SD card slots in all my laptops, if not every day, maybe every other day.  Not just for typical camera photos and videos, but GoPro videos, and pocket computers use these cards for main storage as well.

    Loss of magsafe is very sad.  Sure, the newer charging system has its benefits, but I'm constantly moving between locations and laptops and I keep a few power adapters in different locations for convenience.  I can grab a magsafe and get it connected far more quickly and easily than any other connector, reaching around to grab a cable on one side or the other of the desk, or in a dark or nearly dark room.  I can literally do it from any angle, without even needing to see that actual edge of the laptop.  How many of you use your computers in bed with sleeping spouses?  Show of hands?  Magsafe makes it a lot easier to get that power cable connected in the dark.

    Loss of the power lights for battery charge?  I use that on multiple machines, multiple times, Every Single Day.

    Batteries are a pain in the ass to deal with now, and I strongly believe that "pro" machines should allow knowledgeable users to upgrade memory and disk/ssds, but I can sort of live with things that you only have to deal with once every couple or few years.  The painful stuff is what affects you all the time on a regular basis.

    And the most regular basis item of all?  I can only hope the new machines will have some kind of option for a non-glare display.  Again, not holding my breath.  The mirrored crap that's been out for the past 6 or 7 years is quite literally unusable to me.  I'm stuck on a 2012 MBPro, which is the most up-to-date Apple laptop I can use.  I have a backup for when this dies, but eventually I'm not sure what I'll do.  I really hate the idea of a Franken-MacBookPro, but it may eventually come to that.  So I'm crossing my fingers that this will be the cycle, but not really believing it will be.

    Certainly everyone has different needs, not everyone's will match mine, and Apple is not a company that likes to deal with lots of SKUs. But pros have been clamoring for more full-featured Mac laptops for a long time, and it's frustrating that a market segment that buys a lot of hardware, is willing to pay for it, updates it more than average, and paid no small part in keeping Apple alive during their lean years is being ignored.
    You're going to be waiting forever for USB-A, SD, MagSafe, or matte screens to come back. I came from the a 2011 with Antiglare screen and the latest screens are really not that bad as far as reflectivity goes.

    Your use case with USB-A and SD cards, just get a keychain adapter for each and call it a day. 

    It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 
    I love it when people think they know what others experience.  smh.

    I agree that it's very unlikely that we'll see SD slot again on an Apple laptop.  Sucks for me, but I get it.  I think it's somewhat unlikely that we'll see USB-A again, though I don't think it's impossible with a redesign, because a LOT of people are frustrated with this.  I actually think it's somewhat likely that power connections will change for the better at some point.  Maybe some sort of Apple-specific USB-C-compatible magsafe-like thing.  Maybe. 

    USB-C is a decent standard to work toward, and for casual users that are happy with the Airs and the paper-thin MacBooks, it's probably just fine to have just one or two USB-C slots and call it a day.  But there's no reason that so-called professional grade machines like the MacBook Pros needed to have all their ports stripped away in the name of thinness and simplicity.  It's just bullshit form over function.

    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable. 

    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.

    macike
  • Reply 71 of 106
    blah64 said:
    macxpress said:

    viclauyyc said:
    Since when iPad /Mac need to reboot every single time?
    See post #33. I have to reboot my Mac regularly to correct odd behaviours. Things like pull-downs in iTunes appearing with what's below them overlaid on top, menu selections that won't respond, keyboard shortcuts producing unexpected results -- stuff that's alarming when it happens, but is miraculously cured by a reboot.

    The same is true of our iOS devices. It happens much less frequently to them, but they'll periodically refuse to connect via Bluetooth, or playlists will be missing from the Music app, or Mail refuses to update, all of which are resolved by power cycling.
    Quite odd though that this isn't a widespread issue. Maybe it's time for a reload of your OS from scratch. 
    While my particular case may require more frequent reboots than is typical, I don't think occasional restarts to refocus a confused machine are all that unusual. We all do it from time to time, we just don't think about it. When someone tells you their machine is doing something peculiar, what's the first thing you tell them? "Tty turning it off then on again."

    Even my mini in the living room, which does nothing but provide access to my media library via Home Sharing, benefits from restarting it every few days. It seems to get tired and gradually slows down. After a restart it's refreshed and runs at full speed again. It probably doesn't really NEED the reboot, as the only affect of whatever's happening is that the UI becomes slower to respond, but it does tend to contradict the assertion that the only reason to ever reboot a Mac is after a software update that requires it.
    I don't doubt your problems, but it's not normal at all.

    My own anecdotal situation is a family of 4 with 8 Macs running nearly all the time, a host of iOS devices, and a few other Macs that aren't used all the time.  Powered on 24/7: 5 laptops, 2 minis and an older tower.  Various uses from servers that are required to be on 24/7, to media center that is on 24/7 but idle much of the day, dev machines that get worked hard for 12-14 hours/day and a couple with typical usage off and on for much of the day every day.  NONE of these machines need to be rebooted with any regularity, typically only needing reboots when upgrading system software.  I recently experienced one single hard crash, but I had been thoroughly abusing that laptop for months with hundreds of browser tabs across several browsers, xcode running with 4 separate projects open, multiple iOS simulators, at least a dozen open shell sessions at any time, and a ton of other stuff as well.  And even with all that kind of use, I hard crash less than once/year.  I haven't heard of a single hard crash on any of the other machines in, well, years if ever.

    [ update: actually I just remembered there was one laptop a few years ago running what seemed like a bad version of an older OS, maybe Yosemite or ElCapitan, but it was only that one machine, and only when I was booted into that one particular OS, and only when I started pushing its limits.  I saw a few hard crashes, but I simply stopped using that version of OS X on that machine and everything was fine. ]

    Anecdotes are dangerous, and I hate when others try to use them against me, but I know many, many people that are Mac-only families and I don't know anyone who has experienced anything even remotely close to what you're describing.  I strongly suspect that you've got some faulty individual hardware or you're running some really strangely invasive software.  (?)

    Bluetooth problems I can totally imagine, and things like missing playlists aren't hardware or even likely to be OS-related. 

    If what you're experiencing was commonplace there would be a lot more outcry here.

    [ update 2: do you possibly have off-brand memory installed?  That can cause weird problems that don't show up all the time and can be extremely hard to diagnose. ]
    Thank you for some perspective from the other side. I've been tolerating this because I figured it was normal. I guess I'll have to set aside some time to be outraged, but after my hour-and-half on the phone with Apple today with no resolution to a problem with iTunes Match, I just don't have the energy right now.

    The mini that gradually slows down over time does have third-party RAM, and the behaviour does sound like a memory-related issue. At this point it's less trouble to reboot every few days than to swap out the RAM, but I'll keep that in the back of my head somewhere with all the other stuff I'm supposed to remember but never do. It wasn't bargain RAM, it's name-brand stuff, but you're right that it's a common failure point.

    The MacBook Pro is all factory built, maxed out with every option Apple offered. Its a 2016, the first with the Touch Bar. While I mostly like it, there are a few hardware issues that have me trying to find time for a visit to the Genius Bar. The keyboard is failing, the most frequently used USB-C port is losing its grip, and the screen is starting to discolour. Given all that, it's not beyond reason to think there may be transistor trouble too.

    Whatever the cause, I guess there's some comfort in knowing that everyone else enjoys a trouble-free experience. I mean, at least I *think* there's something in there that should feel like good news... discovering that I got a broken toy even though I paid the same as everyone else isn't making me happy at the moment.
  • Reply 72 of 106
    blah64 said:

    blah64 said:
    For me personally, the news of a potential redesign of the MacBook Pro is exciting, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Count me in the group that finds all the capabilities that have been removed from the newer "pro" laptops in the name of thinness and simplicity really disappointing.

    Clearly USB-C is strong technically, and it might be a great solution eventually, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and isn't likely to be for a few years.  I use multiple laptops myself for different purposes, and several external drives that migrate between different devices, and I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to attempt to travel around and keep a full set of dongles for each one of them and have them wherever I happen to be.  I move around a lot between different locations, sometimes with a case when traveling, but more often around home or office between different locations without a travel bag.  I'm simply not going to carry dongles around with me every time I get up and move around, nor am I going to keep separate dongles plugged into each and every one of the probably dozen or so external drives we use.  Plus they'd have to be pulled in and out all the time when moving between machines.

    The lack of even a single USB-A slot on what is called a "pro" machine is crazy.  Desktops, sure, buy a hub or a couple dongles that permanently reside with the machine.  Doesn't work for laptops.

    I also use the SD card slots in all my laptops, if not every day, maybe every other day.  Not just for typical camera photos and videos, but GoPro videos, and pocket computers use these cards for main storage as well.

    Loss of magsafe is very sad.  Sure, the newer charging system has its benefits, but I'm constantly moving between locations and laptops and I keep a few power adapters in different locations for convenience.  I can grab a magsafe and get it connected far more quickly and easily than any other connector, reaching around to grab a cable on one side or the other of the desk, or in a dark or nearly dark room.  I can literally do it from any angle, without even needing to see that actual edge of the laptop.  How many of you use your computers in bed with sleeping spouses?  Show of hands?  Magsafe makes it a lot easier to get that power cable connected in the dark.

    Loss of the power lights for battery charge?  I use that on multiple machines, multiple times, Every Single Day.

    Batteries are a pain in the ass to deal with now, and I strongly believe that "pro" machines should allow knowledgeable users to upgrade memory and disk/ssds, but I can sort of live with things that you only have to deal with once every couple or few years.  The painful stuff is what affects you all the time on a regular basis.

    And the most regular basis item of all?  I can only hope the new machines will have some kind of option for a non-glare display.  Again, not holding my breath.  The mirrored crap that's been out for the past 6 or 7 years is quite literally unusable to me.  I'm stuck on a 2012 MBPro, which is the most up-to-date Apple laptop I can use.  I have a backup for when this dies, but eventually I'm not sure what I'll do.  I really hate the idea of a Franken-MacBookPro, but it may eventually come to that.  So I'm crossing my fingers that this will be the cycle, but not really believing it will be.

    Certainly everyone has different needs, not everyone's will match mine, and Apple is not a company that likes to deal with lots of SKUs. But pros have been clamoring for more full-featured Mac laptops for a long time, and it's frustrating that a market segment that buys a lot of hardware, is willing to pay for it, updates it more than average, and paid no small part in keeping Apple alive during their lean years is being ignored.
    You're going to be waiting forever for USB-A, SD, MagSafe, or matte screens to come back. I came from the a 2011 with Antiglare screen and the latest screens are really not that bad as far as reflectivity goes.

    Your use case with USB-A and SD cards, just get a keychain adapter for each and call it a day. 

    It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 
    I love it when people think they know what others experience.  smh.

    I agree that it's very unlikely that we'll see SD slot again on an Apple laptop.  Sucks for me, but I get it.  I think it's somewhat unlikely that we'll see USB-A again, though I don't think it's impossible with a redesign, because a LOT of people are frustrated with this.  I actually think it's somewhat likely that power connections will change for the better at some point.  Maybe some sort of Apple-specific USB-C-compatible magsafe-like thing.  Maybe. 

    USB-C is a decent standard to work toward, and for casual users that are happy with the Airs and the paper-thin MacBooks, it's probably just fine to have just one or two USB-C slots and call it a day.  But there's no reason that so-called professional grade machines like the MacBook Pros needed to have all their ports stripped away in the name of thinness and simplicity.  It's just bullshit form over function.

    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable. 

    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.

    Hey, trust me, I longed for matte screens and had little interest in moving to glossy displays because like you, I also have problems with focusing on reflections. I'm just saying, as someone who has been dealing with Macs of every generation since, they've gotten much better. I have a 2018 MBP and largely don't notice it unless I'm somewhere super bright or the display is off or mostly black. Most of the time it's just not a huge problem, so I thought I'd relay my experience as someone with similar issues.  They make matte screen covers, which is not ideal, but possibly worth looking into if you end up having to upgrade and it's an issue still.

    USB-A isn't coming back. I have a keychain adapter that's like an inch long and it's really not that big of a deal. Or find one you can attach to your USB-A cable so you can just attach/detach on a whim. I'm trying to picture your use case where you're shuffling hard drives around to various USB-A/USB-C laptops frequently and was suggesting a pretty simple fix if you're not carrying a bag around. They also make hubs that snap onto the side of the MacBook Pro that have USB-A and SD and other ports that you could use in your work environment. They're all pretty simple solutions to a simple problem, but you don't have to take my advice. The reality is USB-A is on its way out and it's not that hard to live with it. I can't wait to purge all my legacy gear.
  • Reply 73 of 106
    blah64 said:
    macxpress said:

    viclauyyc said:
    Since when iPad /Mac need to reboot every single time?
    See post #33. I have to reboot my Mac regularly to correct odd behaviours. Things like pull-downs in iTunes appearing with what's below them overlaid on top, menu selections that won't respond, keyboard shortcuts producing unexpected results -- stuff that's alarming when it happens, but is miraculously cured by a reboot.

    The same is true of our iOS devices. It happens much less frequently to them, but they'll periodically refuse to connect via Bluetooth, or playlists will be missing from the Music app, or Mail refuses to update, all of which are resolved by power cycling.
    Quite odd though that this isn't a widespread issue. Maybe it's time for a reload of your OS from scratch. 
    While my particular case may require more frequent reboots than is typical, I don't think occasional restarts to refocus a confused machine are all that unusual. We all do it from time to time, we just don't think about it. When someone tells you their machine is doing something peculiar, what's the first thing you tell them? "Tty turning it off then on again."

    Even my mini in the living room, which does nothing but provide access to my media library via Home Sharing, benefits from restarting it every few days. It seems to get tired and gradually slows down. After a restart it's refreshed and runs at full speed again. It probably doesn't really NEED the reboot, as the only affect of whatever's happening is that the UI becomes slower to respond, but it does tend to contradict the assertion that the only reason to ever reboot a Mac is after a software update that requires it.
    I don't doubt your problems, but it's not normal at all.

    My own anecdotal situation is a family of 4 with 8 Macs running nearly all the time, a host of iOS devices, and a few other Macs that aren't used all the time.  Powered on 24/7: 5 laptops, 2 minis and an older tower.  Various uses from servers that are required to be on 24/7, to media center that is on 24/7 but idle much of the day, dev machines that get worked hard for 12-14 hours/day and a couple with typical usage off and on for much of the day every day.  NONE of these machines need to be rebooted with any regularity, typically only needing reboots when upgrading system software.  I recently experienced one single hard crash, but I had been thoroughly abusing that laptop for months with hundreds of browser tabs across several browsers, xcode running with 4 separate projects open, multiple iOS simulators, at least a dozen open shell sessions at any time, and a ton of other stuff as well.  And even with all that kind of use, I hard crash less than once/year.  I haven't heard of a single hard crash on any of the other machines in, well, years if ever.

    [ update: actually I just remembered there was one laptop a few years ago running what seemed like a bad version of an older OS, maybe Yosemite or ElCapitan, but it was only that one machine, and only when I was booted into that one particular OS, and only when I started pushing its limits.  I saw a few hard crashes, but I simply stopped using that version of OS X on that machine and everything was fine. ]

    Anecdotes are dangerous, and I hate when others try to use them against me, but I know many, many people that are Mac-only families and I don't know anyone who has experienced anything even remotely close to what you're describing.  I strongly suspect that you've got some faulty individual hardware or you're running some really strangely invasive software.  (?)

    Bluetooth problems I can totally imagine, and things like missing playlists aren't hardware or even likely to be OS-related. 

    If what you're experiencing was commonplace there would be a lot more outcry here.

    [ update 2: do you possibly have off-brand memory installed?  That can cause weird problems that don't show up all the time and can be extremely hard to diagnose. ]
    Thank you for some perspective from the other side. I've been tolerating this because I figured it was normal. I guess I'll have to set aside some time to be outraged, but after my hour-and-half on the phone with Apple today with no resolution to a problem with iTunes Match, I just don't have the energy right now.

    The mini that gradually slows down over time does have third-party RAM, and the behaviour does sound like a memory-related issue. At this point it's less trouble to reboot every few days than to swap out the RAM, but I'll keep that in the back of my head somewhere with all the other stuff I'm supposed to remember but never do. It wasn't bargain RAM, it's name-brand stuff, but you're right that it's a common failure point.

    The MacBook Pro is all factory built, maxed out with every option Apple offered. Its a 2016, the first with the Touch Bar. While I mostly like it, there are a few hardware issues that have me trying to find time for a visit to the Genius Bar. The keyboard is failing, the most frequently used USB-C port is losing its grip, and the screen is starting to discolour. Given all that, it's not beyond reason to think there may be transistor trouble too.

    Whatever the cause, I guess there's some comfort in knowing that everyone else enjoys a trouble-free experience. I mean, at least I *think* there's something in there that should feel like good news... discovering that I got a broken toy even though I paid the same as everyone else isn't making me happy at the moment.
    Keep taking it in. You know there's a keyboard replacement program, so take advantage of that. BUT, be sure to bring up the other issues like the display discoloration and loosening port, etc, and ask nicely to have those looked at while it's in. With any luck, you'll get all issues fixed at the same time. 

    My now-dead 2011 MBP went into Apple at least four or five times, and by the end I'm not sure there was an original part in it anymore. One time it went in for a faulty RAM slot I think, or one of the three or four failed GPUs, and came back with a new top case, new display (because I also mentioned there was discoloration in the screen, a new hard drive, and looked like a brand new machine. One of the early repairs was done under a "flat rate repair" program where I think I paid $300 and got all that done. The failed GPU incidents were all free as those were under a similar program to the current keyboard replacement program.

    At any rate, take advantage of the program, and get all of these things documented! It's a pain, but in the end you never know, they might just swap your machine for a newer one if you have repeat problems, or at the very least fix a few of the problems you have.
  • Reply 74 of 106
    orthorim said:
    I was so unimpressed with the MBP 2018.. had one for 2 weeks thanks to company I worked for, it was basically the same as my 2012 15" retina. Somewhat smaller, somewhat worse keyboard, annoying dongles, a bit faster. I don't even know if I'd take the trade-off between a moderate speed boost and that annoying dongle issue but I do know it's not worth $4,000. How much better is it overall, in USD terms... maybe a few hundred bucks? At the most. And this was the i9 maxed out. Maybe they'll fix the keyboard and make it cheaper. That would be OK. The 17" MBP which I had from 2009-2012 was the best laptop ever. Never any issue, also had the glass screen which did not scratch (or smudge). Probably, so far, the pinnacle of MacBook Pro. Well the 15" retina is amazing too, and absurdly long lasting... 6 years later and it's 20% slower than the newest?? That's just strange. Also a tank.
    I agree. I have a 2013 MacBook Pro at work. There are a few people who have 2016 and 2017 MacBook Pros. Mine still works just as fast as the others without all the keyboard issues and the dongles. The code compiles just as fast. Touch ID would be nice, but I use my Apple Watch to unlock, which probably works quicker but you can't integrate with 1Password, which is a bummer. I would like to see Face ID on the Macs. I also cannot work on my 4K external monitor at home, which requires one of the newer Macs. I would like to see some improvements to the keyboard and get rid of the Touch Bar. Maybe move to Apple ARM chips if they are ready.
  • Reply 75 of 106
    blah64 said:
    macxpress said:

    viclauyyc said:
    Since when iPad /Mac need to reboot every single time?
    See post #33. I have to reboot my Mac regularly to correct odd behaviours. Things like pull-downs in iTunes appearing with what's below them overlaid on top, menu selections that won't respond, keyboard shortcuts producing unexpected results -- stuff that's alarming when it happens, but is miraculously cured by a reboot.

    The same is true of our iOS devices. It happens much less frequently to them, but they'll periodically refuse to connect via Bluetooth, or playlists will be missing from the Music app, or Mail refuses to update, all of which are resolved by power cycling.
    Quite odd though that this isn't a widespread issue. Maybe it's time for a reload of your OS from scratch. 
    While my particular case may require more frequent reboots than is typical, I don't think occasional restarts to refocus a confused machine are all that unusual. We all do it from time to time, we just don't think about it. When someone tells you their machine is doing something peculiar, what's the first thing you tell them? "Tty turning it off then on again."

    Even my mini in the living room, which does nothing but provide access to my media library via Home Sharing, benefits from restarting it every few days. It seems to get tired and gradually slows down. After a restart it's refreshed and runs at full speed again. It probably doesn't really NEED the reboot, as the only affect of whatever's happening is that the UI becomes slower to respond, but it does tend to contradict the assertion that the only reason to ever reboot a Mac is after a software update that requires it.
    I don't doubt your problems, but it's not normal at all.

    My own anecdotal situation is a family of 4 with 8 Macs running nearly all the time, a host of iOS devices, and a few other Macs that aren't used all the time.  Powered on 24/7: 5 laptops, 2 minis and an older tower.  Various uses from servers that are required to be on 24/7, to media center that is on 24/7 but idle much of the day, dev machines that get worked hard for 12-14 hours/day and a couple with typical usage off and on for much of the day every day.  NONE of these machines need to be rebooted with any regularity, typically only needing reboots when upgrading system software.  I recently experienced one single hard crash, but I had been thoroughly abusing that laptop for months with hundreds of browser tabs across several browsers, xcode running with 4 separate projects open, multiple iOS simulators, at least a dozen open shell sessions at any time, and a ton of other stuff as well.  And even with all that kind of use, I hard crash less than once/year.  I haven't heard of a single hard crash on any of the other machines in, well, years if ever.

    [ update: actually I just remembered there was one laptop a few years ago running what seemed like a bad version of an older OS, maybe Yosemite or ElCapitan, but it was only that one machine, and only when I was booted into that one particular OS, and only when I started pushing its limits.  I saw a few hard crashes, but I simply stopped using that version of OS X on that machine and everything was fine. ]

    Anecdotes are dangerous, and I hate when others try to use them against me, but I know many, many people that are Mac-only families and I don't know anyone who has experienced anything even remotely close to what you're describing.  I strongly suspect that you've got some faulty individual hardware or you're running some really strangely invasive software.  (?)

    Bluetooth problems I can totally imagine, and things like missing playlists aren't hardware or even likely to be OS-related. 

    If what you're experiencing was commonplace there would be a lot more outcry here.

    [ update 2: do you possibly have off-brand memory installed?  That can cause weird problems that don't show up all the time and can be extremely hard to diagnose. ]
    Thank you for some perspective from the other side. I've been tolerating this because I figured it was normal. I guess I'll have to set aside some time to be outraged, but after my hour-and-half on the phone with Apple today with no resolution to a problem with iTunes Match, I just don't have the energy right now.

    The mini that gradually slows down over time does have third-party RAM, and the behaviour does sound like a memory-related issue. At this point it's less trouble to reboot every few days than to swap out the RAM, but I'll keep that in the back of my head somewhere with all the other stuff I'm supposed to remember but never do. It wasn't bargain RAM, it's name-brand stuff, but you're right that it's a common failure point.

    The MacBook Pro is all factory built, maxed out with every option Apple offered. Its a 2016, the first with the Touch Bar. While I mostly like it, there are a few hardware issues that have me trying to find time for a visit to the Genius Bar. The keyboard is failing, the most frequently used USB-C port is losing its grip, and the screen is starting to discolour. Given all that, it's not beyond reason to think there may be transistor trouble too.

    Whatever the cause, I guess there's some comfort in knowing that everyone else enjoys a trouble-free experience. I mean, at least I *think* there's something in there that should feel like good news... discovering that I got a broken toy even though I paid the same as everyone else isn't making me happy at the moment.
    Keep taking it in. You know there's a keyboard replacement program, so take advantage of that. BUT, be sure to bring up the other issues like the display discoloration and loosening port, etc, and ask nicely to have those looked at while it's in. With any luck, you'll get all issues fixed at the same time. 

    My now-dead 2011 MBP went into Apple at least four or five times, and by the end I'm not sure there was an original part in it anymore. One time it went in for a faulty RAM slot I think, or one of the three or four failed GPUs, and came back with a new top case, new display (because I also mentioned there was discoloration in the screen, a new hard drive, and looked like a brand new machine. One of the early repairs was done under a "flat rate repair" program where I think I paid $300 and got all that done. The failed GPU incidents were all free as those were under a similar program to the current keyboard replacement program.

    At any rate, take advantage of the program, and get all of these things documented! It's a pain, but in the end you never know, they might just swap your machine for a newer one if you have repeat problems, or at the very least fix a few of the problems you have.
    Good advice. You're right, of course, particularly since it's still covered under AppleCare so I don't even have to "ask nicely" about the screen and port! It's just such a hassle. Aside from having to wipe the drive before it goes in and restoring it when it comes back, there's the downtime while it's being repaired. Those are not good reasons to avoid taking it in, but they put a damper on the motivation to get it done! :)
  • Reply 76 of 106
    blah64 said:
    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable.
    Does it help any to know there's a good reason the matte screens went away? They limit both the color gamut and dynamic range the screen can reproduce. Getting rid of the matte finish allows for displays that have a much broader range from dark to bright and much more accurate color.

    Knowing that obviously doesn't affect your sensitivity to reflections, but it might be motivation to look into strategies for dealing with it. Maybe it's worth sometimes adjusting the screen angle or your seating position if the trade-off is a more accurate image.

    blah64 said:
    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.
    It's not as daunting as it sounds to be Boy Scout prepared. All my devices have USB-C cables on them. To the end of the cables I have attached these compact, inexpensive adapters:



      https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01C43FUIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06__o00_s00  

    If I have to connect to a USB-A port in the wild, it's already on the cable. If I'm attaching it to my own computer, I pop off the adapter and put it in my pocket. It's less disruptive in my pocket than loose change.

    While we're on the subject of ports, please indulge my favourite rant:

    My wife's Mac has ports for Ethernet, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 2, SD card, and two USB-3 ports, one of which is permanently occupied with a mouse dongle. If I want to connect a second USB device I'm screwed, while the Firewire and Thunderbolt ports sit there doing nothing.

    My Mac has four universal ports. Any one of them can be anything I want. They can be any combination of Thunderbolt, USB-A, USB-C, DisplayPort, HDMI, Ethernet, power input, power output, etc. etc. almost ad infinitum, just by using the appropriate cable.

    My kit for hitting the road fits in an envelope. All my peripherals already have USB-C plugs on them. Some of them obviously came out of the box with USB-A cables, but I just replaced them with inexpensive USB-C versions. That means I carry no more cables than I did before. In order to accommodate plugging my stuff into other computers, those USB-C cables have the adapter shown above attached to them. The net increase in carry volume is zero, since they're attached to the cables. For connecting other people's stuff to my computer I have a small, lightweight adapter that provides USB-A, Ethernet, and HDMI. All from a single port.

    Most of the dongle arguments I've heard exaggerate the severity of the issue. I carry exactly ONE adapter that's small and light enough that I'll forget it's there if I put it in a shirt pocket, and I gain a ton of flexibility. It's my carefully considered opinion that Apple's approach to ports on the MacBook Pro is a major win for users.


    fastasleep
  • Reply 77 of 106
    crowleycrowley Posts: 6,017member
    Eric_WVGG said:
    The existing enclosure will accommodate 16.15 with no bezel to speak of. If they go to 16.5, it will require a larger enclosure.
    Getting rid of the camera in the display would save some space.

    Which got me wondering, does anyone actually USE the camera in the MacBook Pro? Mine could be defective and I'd never know. I always seem to reach for my iPhone to do anything camera related.
    I use FaceTime from my laptop all the time. Used to have daily Google Hangouts chats with a programming team for a couple years. 

    No way they'll drop it. More likely that we'd see something similar to the iPad Pro front camera.
    Or a notch.
  • Reply 78 of 106
    crowley said:
    Eric_WVGG said:
    The existing enclosure will accommodate 16.15 with no bezel to speak of. If they go to 16.5, it will require a larger enclosure.
    Getting rid of the camera in the display would save some space.

    Which got me wondering, does anyone actually USE the camera in the MacBook Pro? Mine could be defective and I'd never know. I always seem to reach for my iPhone to do anything camera related.
    I use FaceTime from my laptop all the time. Used to have daily Google Hangouts chats with a programming team for a couple years. 

    No way they'll drop it. More likely that we'd see something similar to the iPad Pro front camera.
    Or a notch.
    I thought about a notch, but i don't think it's practical on a Mac. App menus aren't a fixed length, and with screen scaling it's impossible to predict how wide the list of menu headings will be. I suppose Apple could decide it's okay for some menu items to appear to the right of the notch though.

    Also, what happens when you have more menubar icons than will fit in the horizontal space? I've never had enough to find out. With a notch, could that become an issue too?
  • Reply 79 of 106
    blah64blah64 Posts: 940member
    blah64 said:

    blah64 said:
    For me personally, the news of a potential redesign of the MacBook Pro is exciting, but I'm not holding my breath.

    Count me in the group that finds all the capabilities that have been removed from the newer "pro" laptops in the name of thinness and simplicity really disappointing.

    Clearly USB-C is strong technically, and it might be a great solution eventually, but it's nowhere near ubiquitous, and isn't likely to be for a few years.  I use multiple laptops myself for different purposes, and several external drives that migrate between different devices, and I can't imagine what a pain in the ass it would be to attempt to travel around and keep a full set of dongles for each one of them and have them wherever I happen to be.  I move around a lot between different locations, sometimes with a case when traveling, but more often around home or office between different locations without a travel bag.  I'm simply not going to carry dongles around with me every time I get up and move around, nor am I going to keep separate dongles plugged into each and every one of the probably dozen or so external drives we use.  Plus they'd have to be pulled in and out all the time when moving between machines.

    The lack of even a single USB-A slot on what is called a "pro" machine is crazy.  Desktops, sure, buy a hub or a couple dongles that permanently reside with the machine.  Doesn't work for laptops.

    I also use the SD card slots in all my laptops, if not every day, maybe every other day.  Not just for typical camera photos and videos, but GoPro videos, and pocket computers use these cards for main storage as well.

    Loss of magsafe is very sad.  Sure, the newer charging system has its benefits, but I'm constantly moving between locations and laptops and I keep a few power adapters in different locations for convenience.  I can grab a magsafe and get it connected far more quickly and easily than any other connector, reaching around to grab a cable on one side or the other of the desk, or in a dark or nearly dark room.  I can literally do it from any angle, without even needing to see that actual edge of the laptop.  How many of you use your computers in bed with sleeping spouses?  Show of hands?  Magsafe makes it a lot easier to get that power cable connected in the dark.

    Loss of the power lights for battery charge?  I use that on multiple machines, multiple times, Every Single Day.

    Batteries are a pain in the ass to deal with now, and I strongly believe that "pro" machines should allow knowledgeable users to upgrade memory and disk/ssds, but I can sort of live with things that you only have to deal with once every couple or few years.  The painful stuff is what affects you all the time on a regular basis.

    And the most regular basis item of all?  I can only hope the new machines will have some kind of option for a non-glare display.  Again, not holding my breath.  The mirrored crap that's been out for the past 6 or 7 years is quite literally unusable to me.  I'm stuck on a 2012 MBPro, which is the most up-to-date Apple laptop I can use.  I have a backup for when this dies, but eventually I'm not sure what I'll do.  I really hate the idea of a Franken-MacBookPro, but it may eventually come to that.  So I'm crossing my fingers that this will be the cycle, but not really believing it will be.

    Certainly everyone has different needs, not everyone's will match mine, and Apple is not a company that likes to deal with lots of SKUs. But pros have been clamoring for more full-featured Mac laptops for a long time, and it's frustrating that a market segment that buys a lot of hardware, is willing to pay for it, updates it more than average, and paid no small part in keeping Apple alive during their lean years is being ignored.
    You're going to be waiting forever for USB-A, SD, MagSafe, or matte screens to come back. I came from the a 2011 with Antiglare screen and the latest screens are really not that bad as far as reflectivity goes.

    Your use case with USB-A and SD cards, just get a keychain adapter for each and call it a day. 

    It's really not as bad as you're making it out to be. 
    I love it when people think they know what others experience.  smh.

    I agree that it's very unlikely that we'll see SD slot again on an Apple laptop.  Sucks for me, but I get it.  I think it's somewhat unlikely that we'll see USB-A again, though I don't think it's impossible with a redesign, because a LOT of people are frustrated with this.  I actually think it's somewhat likely that power connections will change for the better at some point.  Maybe some sort of Apple-specific USB-C-compatible magsafe-like thing.  Maybe. 

    USB-C is a decent standard to work toward, and for casual users that are happy with the Airs and the paper-thin MacBooks, it's probably just fine to have just one or two USB-C slots and call it a day.  But there's no reason that so-called professional grade machines like the MacBook Pros needed to have all their ports stripped away in the name of thinness and simplicity.  It's just bullshit form over function.

    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable. 

    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.

    Hey, trust me, I longed for matte screens and had little interest in moving to glossy displays because like you, I also have problems with focusing on reflections. I'm just saying, as someone who has been dealing with Macs of every generation since, they've gotten much better. I have a 2018 MBP and largely don't notice it unless I'm somewhere super bright or the display is off or mostly black. Most of the time it's just not a huge problem, so I thought I'd relay my experience as someone with similar issues.  They make matte screen covers, which is not ideal, but possibly worth looking into if you end up having to upgrade and it's an issue still.

    USB-A isn't coming back. I have a keychain adapter that's like an inch long and it's really not that big of a deal. Or find one you can attach to your USB-A cable so you can just attach/detach on a whim. I'm trying to picture your use case where you're shuffling hard drives around to various USB-A/USB-C laptops frequently and was suggesting a pretty simple fix if you're not carrying a bag around. They also make hubs that snap onto the side of the MacBook Pro that have USB-A and SD and other ports that you could use in your work environment. They're all pretty simple solutions to a simple problem, but you don't have to take my advice. The reality is USB-A is on its way out and it's not that hard to live with it. I can't wait to purge all my legacy gear.
    I guess it's a good thing that some people can learn to deal with the reflections.  On the other hand, if it was as bad for more people as it is for me, it wouldn't be a problem for me because they never would have completely removed the matte option. ;-)   I have no problem if it's not the default, or even paying more for matte, like we used to be able to do, if that's what's necessary.  It's the not having any option that's killer.

    FWIW, every new generation of machines/screens I give them another look, and I did notice gradual subtle improvement over a few years, but also a bit of a step back at one point.  Exact years/machines are fuzzy, but not the progress graph in my head.  I also make sure to look at other people's machines outside of the store in environments more similar to my real-world use, and it's still a complete No Go for me.  Frustrating as hell.  The sum total of all the inconveniences of ports, power, keyboard, etc., can all be dealt with, even if highly inconvenient, but I literally can't use these crappy reflective screens. 

    What I suspect will happen is that I'll keep using these top-of-the-line 2011 and 2012 higher-res matte machines until they die and then I'll continue finding used ones off craigslist until they can't be found anymore.  Eventually it will leave me in a state where the OS will no longer get security updates, and some dev tools/environments won't work, at which point I'll have a very difficult decision to make.  As in hackintosh or just not using laptops anymore.  Perhaps we'll have pocketable computers by then and I can just carry a display around with me.  Trying to be optimistic, but it's hard.

    As for the USB-A, I suspect my use case isn't typical, with 3 main laptops and a handful of other machines, and a bunch of external drives.  Any "solution" ends up having to be times N, and affects other people because some of the machines are shared.  I have several different physical places in my home that I work (at least 6), and the drives shuffle around between 3 different physical places and/or wherever I'm at.  This doesn't count the maybe 40% of the time I work elsewhere; office, cafes, etc.  None of the other machines are going to get upgraded to USB-C any time in the near future. 

    Making the full changeover to USB-C without any kind of transition period where people have both available is really shitty.  Of course it's totally Apple's personality.  Eventually, USB-C will probably be where things end up, but even AI staff, who I note are generally big USB-C cheerleaders, wrote about their difficulties trying to go USB-C-only, and also articles explaining the complexities of

    On simple devices like iPhones, iPads, interface changes are almost certainly going to necessarily be all at once, but on machines like MacBook Pro, it's more about making a(n arrogant) statement.  Sometimes it works out (ADB->USB), sometimes it doesn't (Firewire, unfortunately; various video cable choices), sometimes it's a big nuisance and/or hard to know yet (USB-C).  Typically, Apple is good about user-focused product design, it's what makes them better than most large companies.  But pulling all other interfaces off the MBPs prematurely was a making a statement, not doing what's in the best interests for their pro customers.
    macike
  • Reply 80 of 106
    blah64 said:
    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable.
    Does it help any to know there's a good reason the matte screens went away? They limit both the color gamut and dynamic range the screen can reproduce. Getting rid of the matte finish allows for displays that have a much broader range from dark to bright and much more accurate color.
    I wouldn't say that's a good reason to remove the matte option.  It's one factor out of several competing factors, that weighs favorably toward glossy for some people.  While gamut and dynamic range are indeed wider on glossy, reflections are clearly worse, as is focal eye strain, and everything I've read says that color accuracy is higher on matte, not glossy.  Quick search for a recent comparison article here:  https://www.imore.com/matte-vs-glossy-which-display-should-you-buy  ; I'm not an expert in this area, but I've read the same thing about color accuracy for many years from many sources.  Even if you could find an article that stated otherwise, I'd be hard pressed to believe it over all the countless other analyses I read during the time of changeover to glossy displays.  Color accuracy isn't a big deal for me personally, but is there something everyone else is missing?

    Knowing that obviously doesn't affect your sensitivity to reflections, but it might be motivation to look into strategies for dealing with it. Maybe it's worth sometimes adjusting the screen angle or your seating position if the trade-off is a more accurate image.
    Clearly, changing positions can help alleviate the worst of the worst, but daylight is daylight, reflections are there.  Even in a fairly dark room, the display itself casts enough light that one's own face is reflected in the screen.  I truly don't understand how people can ignore such grossly obvious reflections.  I read a lot of people say "oh, you'll get used to it".  But they're not only fatiguing (glossy screens cause your eyes to work harder to focus), they're mentally stressful (for me).  It makes me think about things like: what if your job required a coworker sitting next to you while you're working, poking you in the arm, over and over and over and over.  Never stopping.  For-ev-er.  I suppose some people might eventually learn to cope with it and say "oh, you'll get used to it" and actually think they're no longer feeling it themselves, but I'm very confident that I would never get used to it.  I'd end up choosing a different company, or career.

    I know it's not just me, my quick search above also let me to: https://macmatte.wordpress.com/
    A little out of date, but good information, hundreds of comments, and one comment (let me go find it... comment #15, meta-lists a bunch of different survey results).  It's not an insignificant portion of the population that prefers matte, it's just that with nothing else available on the Mac platform, most people can deal with it.  That's not exactly a resounding victory cry.

    blah64 said:
    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.
    It's not as daunting as it sounds to be Boy Scout prepared. All my devices have USB-C cables on them. To the end of the cables I have attached these compact, inexpensive adapters:



      https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01C43FUIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06__o00_s00  

    If I have to connect to a USB-A port in the wild, it's already on the cable. If I'm attaching it to my own computer, I pop off the adapter and put it in my pocket. It's less disruptive in my pocket than loose change.

    While we're on the subject of ports, please indulge my favourite rant:

    My wife's Mac has ports for Ethernet, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 2, SD card, and two USB-3 ports, one of which is permanently occupied with a mouse dongle. If I want to connect a second USB device I'm screwed, while the Firewire and Thunderbolt ports sit there doing nothing.

    My Mac has four universal ports. Any one of them can be anything I want. They can be any combination of Thunderbolt, USB-A, USB-C, DisplayPort, HDMI, Ethernet, power input, power output, etc. etc. almost ad infinitum, just by using the appropriate cable.

    My kit for hitting the road fits in an envelope. All my peripherals already have USB-C plugs on them. Some of them obviously came out of the box with USB-A cables, but I just replaced them with inexpensive USB-C versions. That means I carry no more cables than I did before. In order to accommodate plugging my stuff into other computers, those USB-C cables have the adapter shown above attached to them. The net increase in carry volume is zero, since they're attached to the cables. For connecting other people's stuff to my computer I have a small, lightweight adapter that provides USB-A, Ethernet, and HDMI. All from a single port.

    Most of the dongle arguments I've heard exaggerate the severity of the issue. I carry exactly ONE adapter that's small and light enough that I'll forget it's there if I put it in a shirt pocket, and I gain a ton of flexibility. It's my carefully considered opinion that Apple's approach to ports on the MacBook Pro is a major win for users.


    I think you mean it's a major win for you, and your use case. ;-)   I won't argue that.

    You say "if I have to connect to a USB-A port in the wild, it's already on the cable", but if you're off-site and need to connect to someone else's drive, it's almost certainly going to be a USB-A, which means unless you have one of your drives with a USB-C cable or adapter with you, you're hosed.  So you need to carry an extra cable or adapter all the time, there's really no way around that.  In this fairly common scenario you'd need the opposite adapter from the one pictured above, right?  So two adapters at least.

    But thanks for the link, I know there are quite a few cheap adapters available.  Though to put cables with adapters on every external drive here, I'd need a dozen or so, plus with that strategy I'd need them for all the USB flash drives we use as well.  It makes more sense to keep the adapters with the laptops.  But unless you always keep them plugged in the sockets (not okay when putting in a case), it's just something else to remember to pack and have to deal with in general.  And when in my office I'm often moving locations between 3 floors, and no, I don't repack and carry my travel bag around with me.  Not to mention I'd still need an external adapter or dock for all the SD card data xfers we do.  Adapters and dongles and docks are adequate solutions for desktop/stationary computers, far less so for laptops.

    I'm not saying people can't deal with this issue, clearly they can.  I'm not saying that having USB-C ports is a bad thing, it's not, it's likely to be the future.  What's bad is arbitrarily taking away *all* the other ports prematurely to make a statement.  For me personally, there's a real loss of functionality and/or notable inconvenience without much (anything?) in the way of offsetting benefit for me, at least for now.  And this isn't even talking about the reflective displays (deal breaker for me) and the questionable new keyboards, which have had serious issues.

    I used to look forward to the new laptop models coming out every year, and I'd upgrade maybe every 18 months or so, cringing at all the money I spent, but always enjoying incremental benefits every step of the way.  It's just not like that anymore.  Instead, it's a set of trade offs, and that's unfortunate.

    macike
Sign In or Register to comment.