Apple plans new 16- to 16.5-inch MacBook Pro in 2019 aimed at pro designers

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Comments

  • Reply 81 of 98
    crowley said:
    Eric_WVGG said:
    The existing enclosure will accommodate 16.15 with no bezel to speak of. If they go to 16.5, it will require a larger enclosure.
    Getting rid of the camera in the display would save some space.

    Which got me wondering, does anyone actually USE the camera in the MacBook Pro? Mine could be defective and I'd never know. I always seem to reach for my iPhone to do anything camera related.
    I use FaceTime from my laptop all the time. Used to have daily Google Hangouts chats with a programming team for a couple years. 

    No way they'll drop it. More likely that we'd see something similar to the iPad Pro front camera.
    Or a notch.
    I thought about a notch, but i don't think it's practical on a Mac. App menus aren't a fixed length, and with screen scaling it's impossible to predict how wide the list of menu headings will be. I suppose Apple could decide it's okay for some menu items to appear to the right of the notch though.

    Also, what happens when you have more menubar icons than will fit in the horizontal space? I've never had enough to find out. With a notch, could that become an issue too?
    I read his notch comment as sarcasm.  lol.

    As far as laptop cams, I'm with you on this one.  Never use 'em.  In fact, I cover them up.  It's weird to me to be working or even just reading with a camera staring at my face.  I'm not alone on this, I see other people with stickers or post-its covering the web cams all the time.
  • Reply 82 of 98
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Hey did you know that gamers are the most oppressed minorities?
  • Reply 83 of 98
    Eric_WVGG said:
    Folks, slow your roll.

    Apple redesigns MacBooks approximately every four years. It still feels new, but the truth is that we are reaching the end of this current “design cycle”. If history holds true, a redesigned MacBook will be released in either 2019 or 2020. 

    Also, look at what they’re doing with iPhones. They didn’t make the X or the XS Max close than the “6” or “6 plus” sizes; they reduced the size of the screen bezel. 

    They’re not going to make a 17” size of the existing MacBook Pro. They’re going to release a new computer of the same (15”) size with a bigger screen. 
    The existing enclosure will accommodate 16.15 with no bezel to speak of. If they go to 16.5, it will require a larger enclosure.

    You're right about being at the end of the design cycle, though.
    Would 16.5 be the size of a Retina MacBook Pro?
  • Reply 84 of 98
    blah64 said:

    Making the full changeover to USB-C without any kind of transition period where people have both available is really shitty.  Of course it's totally Apple's personality.  Eventually, USB-C will probably be where things end up, but even AI staff, who I note are generally big USB-C cheerleaders, wrote about their difficulties trying to go USB-C-only, and also articles explaining the complexities of 
    If we're thinking of the same article — it was only in the context of charging devices at a conference, and the guy literally packed the wrong stuff to charge all devices at once and was willfully obtuse about the whole thing. It was ridiculous and had a clickbait title about not being ready to move to USB-C yet, even though it covered nothing other than a manufactured problem.

    There are a few other issues about cable types that have been covered here, but any professional should be able to navigate those issues. :)

    blah64 said:

    Clearly, changing positions can help alleviate the worst of the worst, but daylight is daylight, reflections are there.  Even in a fairly dark room, the display itself casts enough light that one's own face is reflected in the screen.  I truly don't understand how people can ignore such grossly obvious reflections.
    I feel like you're overstating this somewhat. I honestly don't see any "grossly obvious reflections" much less my face in either light or dark rooms, unless there's something like a direct line of sight to a lamp or something. I've got a 30" ACD (matte) and my MBP screen in front of me at both home and in my office and while I can definitely tell the MBP is more reflective, I would not say any reflections are "grossly obvious". And again, I'm fairly sensitive to reflections similarly to the way you describe. It's definitely WAY better than the 2011-2012 iMacs in this room I'm in at the moment. just saying. 
  • Reply 85 of 98
    blah64 said:
    crowley said:
    Eric_WVGG said:
    The existing enclosure will accommodate 16.15 with no bezel to speak of. If they go to 16.5, it will require a larger enclosure.
    Getting rid of the camera in the display would save some space.

    Which got me wondering, does anyone actually USE the camera in the MacBook Pro? Mine could be defective and I'd never know. I always seem to reach for my iPhone to do anything camera related.
    I use FaceTime from my laptop all the time. Used to have daily Google Hangouts chats with a programming team for a couple years. 

    No way they'll drop it. More likely that we'd see something similar to the iPad Pro front camera.
    Or a notch.
    I thought about a notch, but i don't think it's practical on a Mac. App menus aren't a fixed length, and with screen scaling it's impossible to predict how wide the list of menu headings will be. I suppose Apple could decide it's okay for some menu items to appear to the right of the notch though.

    Also, what happens when you have more menubar icons than will fit in the horizontal space? I've never had enough to find out. With a notch, could that become an issue too?
    I read his notch comment as sarcasm.  lol.

    As far as laptop cams, I'm with you on this one.  Never use 'em.  In fact, I cover them up.  It's weird to me to be working or even just reading with a camera staring at my face.  I'm not alone on this, I see other people with stickers or post-its covering the web cams all the time.
    For anyone paranoid about their camera/mics, I recommend this from the makers of Little Snitch:
    https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/micro-snitch/id972028355
  • Reply 86 of 98

    DuhSesame said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Hey did you know that gamers are the most oppressed minorities?
    I don't think I get the joke.
  • Reply 87 of 98

    DuhSesame said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Hey did you know that gamers are the most oppressed minorities?
    I don't think I get the joke.
    it’s a meme.
  • Reply 88 of 98
    DuhSesame said:

    DuhSesame said:
    macxpress said:
    macxpress said:
    Apple developing a laptop aimed at gamers???? LOLOLOLOL!!!!!!

    What gamer is going to buy a Mac? Every Mac user already gets laughed at when they say they want to play games on their Mac. 

    I can see a larger MacBook Pro being used for other things such as designing. You could put VEGA Graphics inside it and use the extra space for cooling them. I don't know if Apple dares put a Xeon inside it?
    I play games on my Mac, it's not its primary use, but it's not like it's *that* weird to do so. That said, I understand why nobody buys a Mac primarily as a gaming device.

    My 15" already has Vega graphics in it, btw. 
    I do too, but a true gamer laughs at the Mac, not a casual gamer who plays every once in a while. 
    “True gamer” = PC master race neckbeards. Anyone who laughs at what others play games on is an asshole. Most people play games on consoles and phones. 
    Hey did you know that gamers are the most oppressed minorities?
    I don't think I get the joke.
    it’s a meme.
    Okay.
  • Reply 89 of 98
    blah64 said:
    I read his notch comment as sarcasm.  lol.
    Aw crap, I hate it when I'm Emily Litella!  :D
  • Reply 90 of 98
    blah64blah64 Posts: 915member
    blah64 said:
    I read his notch comment as sarcasm.  lol.
    Aw crap, I hate it when I'm Emily Litella!  :D
    The name meant nothing to me, but I pictured Gilda Radner immediately.  Had to look it up just now to confirm.  Heh.
  • Reply 91 of 98
    blah64blah64 Posts: 915member
    blah64 said:

    Making the full changeover to USB-C without any kind of transition period where people have both available is really shitty.  Of course it's totally Apple's personality.  Eventually, USB-C will probably be where things end up, but even AI staff, who I note are generally big USB-C cheerleaders, wrote about their difficulties trying to go USB-C-only, and also articles explaining the complexities of 
    If we're thinking of the same article — it was only in the context of charging devices at a conference, and the guy literally packed the wrong stuff to charge all devices at once and was willfully obtuse about the whole thing. It was ridiculous and had a clickbait title about not being ready to move to USB-C yet, even though it covered nothing other than a manufactured problem.
    I actually semi-agree with this.  It was an interesting article, and it did make a point, but the situation was contrived.

    There are a few other issues about cable types that have been covered here, but any professional should be able to navigate those issues. :)
    Sure, and I said something about that above.  With enough effort, understanding, buying the right cables or adapters, and remembering to have them with you all the time, this is something that can be worked around.  It doesn't mean it's convenient. 

    Right now I have a set of machines where all the connectivity I need is super convenient.  Everything just works, it's with me all the time on all my machines, and I don't have to carry around any dongles or adapters.  Nothing.  So regardless of workarounds, for me the stripping of ports is a big step backwards in convenience.   Not to mention, having to deal with this across multiple machines.

    I'd prefer a faster machine, but even the slope of that vector has come way down.  The processor speed difference from my machine to the top of the line 2018 (non BTO/CTO) is only 80-ish %, and that's over almost 7 years of updates!  Yes, other subsystems have improved as well, so the real-world throughput would be somewhat better than that, but I'm not ready to drop a big chunk of change and an enormous of time to rebuild all my tools, drivers, etc. without a really huge improvement to my overall usage.  And this doesn't even include the displays.

    Other than eventual huge speed differentials, I'm not sure at this point what would pull me to ever update my laptops.  That's messed up.  The reason I'm troubled is that eventually they will physically die, and also the OS updates will stop being available for this generation of hardware.  So at some point it's going to cost me a bunch of money AND become less convenient.

    blah64 said:

    Clearly, changing positions can help alleviate the worst of the worst, but daylight is daylight, reflections are there.  Even in a fairly dark room, the display itself casts enough light that one's own face is reflected in the screen.  I truly don't understand how people can ignore such grossly obvious reflections.
    I feel like you're overstating this somewhat. I honestly don't see any "grossly obvious reflections" much less my face in either light or dark rooms, unless there's something like a direct line of sight to a lamp or something. I've got a 30" ACD (matte) and my MBP screen in front of me at both home and in my office and while I can definitely tell the MBP is more reflective, I would not say any reflections are "grossly obvious". And again, I'm fairly sensitive to reflections similarly to the way you describe. It's definitely WAY better than the 2011-2012 iMacs in this room I'm in at the moment. just saying. 
    Again, you can think what you want, but they are there, and I can't ignore them.  They don't generally give me headaches, like many people get, but eye strain and stress, yes.  Difficult to concentrate.  Maybe you could code while someone is nudging you or playing with your hair all day, or talking loud on the phone right next to your office, but I can't.  Same with reflections, they're a constant distraction, and people's eyes end up working harder than they need to, causing stress. 

    Even iPhones are yuck, from a glare perspective.  Thankfully the screens are very small, and extremely adjustable angles being as they're handheld.  I still see the reflections, but fortunately for me, I don't spend much time on phones.

    Research shows that glare on computer screens leads to digital eye strain.  Pull up any credible source.

    even Popular Science. ;-)

    They all suggest things like matte screen filters.  That used to be the default.  Then we had to pay to get it as an extra.  Now, no options at all.   And no, the stick-on filters suck, unfortunately.

  • Reply 92 of 98
    I am looking forward to seeing this. For years I was pleasantly torn between the 15" and 17" models. I use my laptop at work in place of a desktop device due to it'd portability, but I also miss being able to compare and edit legal documents side by side. Given Apple's recent efforts to make their laptops thinner and lighter, a new16.5" laptop could be very appealing. Time for a new Brentwood case too.
  • Reply 93 of 98
    blah64 said:
    blah64 said:

    Making the full changeover to USB-C without any kind of transition period where people have both available is really shitty.  Of course it's totally Apple's personality.  Eventually, USB-C will probably be where things end up, but even AI staff, who I note are generally big USB-C cheerleaders, wrote about their difficulties trying to go USB-C-only, and also articles explaining the complexities of 
    If we're thinking of the same article — it was only in the context of charging devices at a conference, and the guy literally packed the wrong stuff to charge all devices at once and was willfully obtuse about the whole thing. It was ridiculous and had a clickbait title about not being ready to move to USB-C yet, even though it covered nothing other than a manufactured problem.
    I actually semi-agree with this.  It was an interesting article, and it did make a point, but the situation was contrived.

    There are a few other issues about cable types that have been covered here, but any professional should be able to navigate those issues. :)
    Sure, and I said something about that above.  With enough effort, understanding, buying the right cables or adapters, and remembering to have them with you all the time, this is something that can be worked around.  It doesn't mean it's convenient. 

    Right now I have a set of machines where all the connectivity I need is super convenient.  Everything just works, it's with me all the time on all my machines, and I don't have to carry around any dongles or adapters.  Nothing.  So regardless of workarounds, for me the stripping of ports is a big step backwards in convenience.   Not to mention, having to deal with this across multiple machines.

    I'd prefer a faster machine, but even the slope of that vector has come way down.  The processor speed difference from my machine to the top of the line 2018 (non BTO/CTO) is only 80-ish %, and that's over almost 7 years of updates!  Yes, other subsystems have improved as well, so the real-world throughput would be somewhat better than that, but I'm not ready to drop a big chunk of change and an enormous of time to rebuild all my tools, drivers, etc. without a really huge improvement to my overall usage.  And this doesn't even include the displays.

    Other than eventual huge speed differentials, I'm not sure at this point what would pull me to ever update my laptops.  That's messed up.  The reason I'm troubled is that eventually they will physically die, and also the OS updates will stop being available for this generation of hardware.  So at some point it's going to cost me a bunch of money AND become less convenient.

    blah64 said:

    Clearly, changing positions can help alleviate the worst of the worst, but daylight is daylight, reflections are there.  Even in a fairly dark room, the display itself casts enough light that one's own face is reflected in the screen.  I truly don't understand how people can ignore such grossly obvious reflections.
    I feel like you're overstating this somewhat. I honestly don't see any "grossly obvious reflections" much less my face in either light or dark rooms, unless there's something like a direct line of sight to a lamp or something. I've got a 30" ACD (matte) and my MBP screen in front of me at both home and in my office and while I can definitely tell the MBP is more reflective, I would not say any reflections are "grossly obvious". And again, I'm fairly sensitive to reflections similarly to the way you describe. It's definitely WAY better than the 2011-2012 iMacs in this room I'm in at the moment. just saying. 
    Again, you can think what you want, but they are there, and I can't ignore them.  They don't generally give me headaches, like many people get, but eye strain and stress, yes.  Difficult to concentrate.  Maybe you could code while someone is nudging you or playing with your hair all day, or talking loud on the phone right next to your office, but I can't.  Same with reflections, they're a constant distraction, and people's eyes end up working harder than they need to, causing stress. 

    Even iPhones are yuck, from a glare perspective.  Thankfully the screens are very small, and extremely adjustable angles being as they're handheld.  I still see the reflections, but fortunately for me, I don't spend much time on phones.

    Research shows that glare on computer screens leads to digital eye strain.  Pull up any credible source.

    even Popular Science. ;-)

    They all suggest things like matte screen filters.  That used to be the default.  Then we had to pay to get it as an extra.  Now, no options at all.   And no, the stick-on filters suck, unfortunately.

    Yeah, I hear you on the display thing. I actually did a bit of testing in a brighter room with more lights present and depending where you are, it really is annoying. I have yet to even try to use this thing outside, so we'll see how that goes when the weather gets better and I can work in the front yard. :) My preference would for them to keep the matte BTO option, short of some miracle where they devised some other new antiglare tech on all models. With any luck they're still putting some effort into those concerns.
  • Reply 94 of 98
    BlackpriesterBlackpriester Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    Dig, You need to understand that there are a lot of physically fit 40+ year olds, whose muscles for schlepping a laptop around still work FAR better than their decaying eyes ;). I for one, have been hoping for a decent 17-incher for quite a while.
  • Reply 95 of 98
    davgreg said:
    I have pretty much given up on Apple laptops and recently purchased a Surface Pro as a “real computer” companion to my iPad Pro 12.9.

    My bet is that the mainstream laptop market is or will soon be a shrinking ice cube. The new iPad Pro and iOS still are not a replacement for a laptop, but are getting closer. I really think Apple is missing an opportunity by not making a Surface like device that has full file access based on either Mac OS or iOS.

    It is still early days with the Surface Pro, but there is a lot to like. My i5 Surface Pro (6) cost less than my iPad Pro- quite a bit less. The power adapter set up is sucky, but the unit is very nice and boots faster than any Mac or iPad I have seen.
    If you already have an iPad, you don’t need a half-breed. You need a notebook. 

    In reality, if the Surface was your thing, why use an iPadat all? It’s supposed to have the tablet thing covered - unless its limitations as a tablet are that annoying.  If the Surface was a good enough laptop,you wouldn’t need to compare its price to a tablet - it would be able to stand on its own against a MacBook Pro. 

    I have an iPad Pro as it’s the best in class tablet money can buy. I also have a MacBook Pro. 

    There is literally no drawback to this combo. With the surface, you have something that’s nearly a good laptop and nearly a good tablet,but not excellent at either. 

    You are halfway there with the iPad Pro. The Surface part of the equation just seems out of place. A team member at work is a total anti-Apple guy. He finally got his Surface. Then returned it. He was bummed. He is currently waiting for MS to work everything out and get him what he needs. But I think he will be waiting a while. 

    It’s sad that he takes the anti-Apple stance because he could literally have everything he needs right now. 

    At least you can bide your time with the Surface until the larger MBP comes out, then sell the Surface and purchase the Mac when it is available. It will be a MUCH better experience. 
    edited March 10
  • Reply 96 of 98
    I couldn't be more excited. It makes sense to have the 15" Macbook Pro line BECOME the 16.5" line. You could do something similar to the 13" Macbook Pro: Based on measurements I took, you could get it to 13.5" for free (reducing the bezel), and 14" if you increased the width of the laptop by about 3/8th of an inch. Increasing the width would also better match the aspect ratio of the screen, and in fact, you could slightly reduce the length of the 13" macbook Pro - my bet is the weight would be unchanged. That being said, I personally am gunning for the 16.5". :)
  • Reply 97 of 98
    Just thinking - this is almost certainly what the upcoming 31.5" iMac is - the old 27" iMac without the bezel. :)
  • Reply 98 of 98
    blah64 said:
    But the biggest mistake you made is trying to say what works for me as far as screens go.  First, I pay a LOT of attention to this, and I am not ignorant of the machines Apple builds.  I've been buying and using Apple computers almost exclusively for 40 years, Macs for 34 years, primarily as a developer for many of those years.  I live close enough to an Apple store that I probably visit more than once/month on average, and I know dozens of friends and family with these crappy screens that I've tried over and over through the years.  I've seen the reflections change with refinement from product to product, and over 6-7 years of glossiness I've seen some improvement of these "mirror screens", but it was from horrendous to just bad.  And then at one point they actually got worse again.  There is one simple statement that you cannot argue with, and that is that there are reflections.  They're never not there.  Apparently many humans have the ability to ignore reflections, but I don't understand that phenomenon, and quite frankly I don't understand how anyone can tolerate reflections in a screen you're staring at for hours on end.  In any case, doesn't work for me, they are quite literally unusable.
    Does it help any to know there's a good reason the matte screens went away? They limit both the color gamut and dynamic range the screen can reproduce. Getting rid of the matte finish allows for displays that have a much broader range from dark to bright and much more accurate color.

    Knowing that obviously doesn't affect your sensitivity to reflections, but it might be motivation to look into strategies for dealing with it. Maybe it's worth sometimes adjusting the screen angle or your seating position if the trade-off is a more accurate image.

    blah64 said:
    And keychain adapters?  LOL.  I'm sure as hell not going to add crap to carry around in my pockets 24/7, it's bad enough with all the keys I need to carry, phones, glasses, etc.   I'm over capacity as it is.  Perhaps for someone who carries a purse that could be feasible, but it's not a good general solution.  This is just making excuses and trying to cover up for a lack of ports.
    It's not as daunting as it sounds to be Boy Scout prepared. All my devices have USB-C cables on them. To the end of the cables I have attached these compact, inexpensive adapters:



      https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01C43FUIW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06__o00_s00  

    If I have to connect to a USB-A port in the wild, it's already on the cable. If I'm attaching it to my own computer, I pop off the adapter and put it in my pocket. It's less disruptive in my pocket than loose change.

    While we're on the subject of ports, please indulge my favourite rant:

    My wife's Mac has ports for Ethernet, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 2, SD card, and two USB-3 ports, one of which is permanently occupied with a mouse dongle. If I want to connect a second USB device I'm screwed, while the Firewire and Thunderbolt ports sit there doing nothing.

    My Mac has four universal ports. Any one of them can be anything I want. They can be any combination of Thunderbolt, USB-A, USB-C, DisplayPort, HDMI, Ethernet, power input, power output, etc. etc. almost ad infinitum, just by using the appropriate cable.

    My kit for hitting the road fits in an envelope. All my peripherals already have USB-C plugs on them. Some of them obviously came out of the box with USB-A cables, but I just replaced them with inexpensive USB-C versions. That means I carry no more cables than I did before. In order to accommodate plugging my stuff into other computers, those USB-C cables have the adapter shown above attached to them. The net increase in carry volume is zero, since they're attached to the cables. For connecting other people's stuff to my computer I have a small, lightweight adapter that provides USB-A, Ethernet, and HDMI. All from a single port.

    Most of the dongle arguments I've heard exaggerate the severity of the issue. I carry exactly ONE adapter that's small and light enough that I'll forget it's there if I put it in a shirt pocket, and I gain a ton of flexibility. It's my carefully considered opinion that Apple's approach to ports on the MacBook Pro is a major win for users.


    From my experiences though, most talks about the butterfly keyboard I've found so far are way hypocritical.  I'll say it's more a love-hate relationship because when it works it's great.  Key travel is enough once you adjusted your typing style, which to me better be gentle and quick.  Keycaps can be disassembled with ease once you learned how which way easier than what everyone tries to say.  Two major flaws are reliability and tolerances, I don't need to mention about the first one, but the latter cause some keys click different than others, which is irritating.  Finally, the keyboard can be disassembled from the top case, which means you can take it off and get it completely clean, but that's very time-consuming, to me this is a bit ridiculous.
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