Apple Card offers simplified and secure Goldman Sachs-backed credit card with daily reward...

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 283
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,989member
    Cool!!! I can accumulate instant cash-back in account and use including if needed, send that cash to someone with ApplePay/AppleCash. Why use Venmo,Cash,PayPal,etc cash exchange App ?

    And 2%,3% cashback, can't go wrong... Why wait summer. Apple offer it now and I will get rid of Citi cashback MC,bunch of Visa cards for myself and rest of family members.
    edited March 25 davenwatto_cobra
  • Reply 62 of 283
    chasmchasm Posts: 1,649member
    Cannot wait for this to spread outside the US. The no fees alone makes this a no-brainer.
    Solilostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 63 of 283
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member
    Soli said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    I don’t think unexpected payments and hard times indicates that one is “being stupid.”

    Let’s say you’re a college student and you need books for the semester. Those can be a vary large upfront payment that might not be covered by tuition assistance. Would it be stupid for the student not not take her classes that semester because she’ll have to pay off her books over a few months?
    Maybe kids shouldn't be going to colleges they can't afford?
    Maybe trolls should find hobbies?
    Soliroundaboutnowfastasleepmike1anantksundaramnetmagebeowulfschmidtlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 64 of 283
    ElCapitanElCapitan Posts: 264member
    melgross said:
    ElCapitan said:
    They might as well have launched an Apple Cart. It would be equally unavailable and useless for the majority of Apple users. 

    Is this a local US event? 
    This is actually useful for the majority of Apple users. You really need to give reasons. Just saying what you did says nothing.
    What is it about only being available in the US you don't understand? The majority of Apple customers are NOT in the us...
  • Reply 65 of 283
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member

    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    You're free to doubt whatever you like. I worked for Capital One corporate for years and will believe and share what I experienced. Again, it's not about your ivory tower morality judgements from on high. It's about the reality of the economy -- the once booming middle-class is being eradicated, and the segments that are growing are low-income, and the very-high income. ie, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The middle-class and the promise of the American dream of my parents and grand-parents age where a single-earner need only show up and work hard to get that house and two cars is long gone. 
    fastasleeplarz2112netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 66 of 283
    jason98jason98 Posts: 763member
    2% cashback works only on Apple Pay, which is currently limited mostly to retails/grocery stores. Most of the large purchases I made past years (like air/travel fares) at online sites do not support Apple Pay and likely won't any time soon. So Citi double cash would still be a viable option for years to come at least for me.
    edited March 25 netmage
  • Reply 67 of 283
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,108member
    Soli said:
    mike1 said:
    Soli said:
    eightzero said:
    This looks great. My Apple ID is tied to external credit card, so I'm guessing somehow the Apple Card will need to be tied to a bank account. I'm sure it will be obvious on signup.

    I'm kinda curious to see how this will work in a family share. Can I give a family member my card to use, then the bill comes to me as well? Again, likely obvious in the details.

    Really cool.
    My guess is that you’ll be able to add the card to any number of devices.

    My question is how can the physical card be utilized for online payments that require the CVV (that doesn’t also offer Apple Pay as an option).
    During the presentation, she said that the info that is not printed on the card would be available in Wallet. You would also need an expiration date in addition to the CVV.

    Curious too as to whether there can be multiple users, each with the card in their Wallet.
    Like a password manager, that has to be a lot more secure than having it printed. I wonder if putting the Wallet app behind Touch/Face ID will be an option by the time this launches.
    How is it not already?
  • Reply 68 of 283
    65026502 Posts: 276member
    Soli said:
    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    So you would never have a mortgage for a home? Do you really think that most people pay for homes in cash up front?
    We're talking about credit card debt; people aren't financing their homes on their credit cards. People buy starbucks coffee on their credit card and then take a year to pay it off. It's stupidity. As Dave Ramsey says, a mortgage is the only acceptable debt and it should be paid off as fast as possible. It's only acceptable as it is an asset that goes up in value, unlike nearly everything else we buy.
    designrstompymuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 69 of 283
    65026502 Posts: 276member

    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    You're free to doubt whatever you like. I worked for Capital One corporate for years and will believe and share what I experienced. Again, it's not about your ivory tower morality judgements from on high. It's about the reality of the economy -- the once booming middle-class is being eradicated, and the segments that are growing are low-income, and the very-high income. ie, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The middle-class and the promise of the American dream of my parents and grand-parents age where a single-earner need only show up and work hard to get that house and two cars is long gone. 
    Please, I see people complain all the time how they have no money and the "man" is out to get them. Yet, they never miss their daily starbucks run, meals out, hulu, netflix, and spotify subscriptions and new car lease every 3 years. And they are dumbfounded on where all their money went.
    designrstompyelijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 70 of 283
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,684member
    Sign me up!!
    I signed up.  This is a great development for Apple.  I love how this card will not share anything of me to 3rd party folks.  Looking forward to canceling my other cards and giving them the middle finger.

    This was a shot across the bow to other card issuers.  Just like Apple revolutionized the smartphone, I hope they do the same to credit cards which is LONG overdue!
    StrangeDaysfastasleepanantksundaramdavenlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 71 of 283
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member
    6502 said:
    Soli said:
    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    So you would never have a mortgage for a home? Do you really think that most people pay for homes in cash up front?
    We're talking about credit card debt; people aren't financing their homes on their credit cards. People buy starbucks coffee on their credit card and then take a year to pay it off. It's stupidity. As Dave Ramsey says, a mortgage is the only acceptable debt and it should be paid off as fast as possible. It's only acceptable as it is an asset that goes up in value, unlike nearly everything else we buy.
    I'm complete fine with a car loan. I'd rather not pay cash all at once for something I can spread out over time. Doing so is a feature, and that feature has a price. Since I have the earning ability to pay for that feature, I don't stay up at nite over it. YMMV.

    Good luck waging your fiscal holy war on the internet, tho! I'm sure you'll change a lot of hearts & minds! Go get 'em!
    roundaboutnowfastasleepnetmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 72 of 283
    Super excited about what they announced today. The TV + and movie/show line up seems to be fantastic. Looking forward big time. Apple pay and credit card and cash rewards .. awesome. Magazines. To me a great deal! And the Apple Arcade sound real good. Curious about pricing though. New TV app looks great ! I ownder if they will offer bundeled tiers of services?.. it will be great if they do. Overall.. very impressed. Very ! Thank you Tim and Team.
    lostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 73 of 283
    wizard69wizard69 Posts: 12,860member
    Soli said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    I don’t think unexpected payments and hard times indicates that one is “being stupid.”

    Let’s say you’re a college student and you need books for the semester. Those can be a vary large upfront payment that might not be covered by tuition assistance. Would it be stupid for the student not not take her classes that semester because she’ll have to pay off her books over a few months?
    Unexpected or hard times are not the norm.  Like I say I oeared this the hardway so frankly stupid applied to my money management at one time.

    As for college the constant whining in the media about student loans and expenses just highlight how ignorant students leaving high school are about money.   
  • Reply 74 of 283
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,684member

    rob53 said:
    Finally!!!!

    Getting this to replace my Costco Citibank VISA card. Better rewards program. 

    Will costco allow the MasterCard version or does their Apple Pay use hide the credit card type?
    Really?!?! Because 4% for gas and 3% for dining on the Costco Citi Card is a better reward than 2% and 1% for the Apple Card. That’s not better to me. 
    You're conveniently leaving out the part about having to pay a Membership fee in order to get that Costco card.  It may not necessarily be a fee for the card, but it's still a fee in order to get it.
    StrangeDaysdavenbeowulfschmidtlostkiwiwatto_cobra
  • Reply 75 of 283
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,298member
    6502 said:

    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    You're free to doubt whatever you like. I worked for Capital One corporate for years and will believe and share what I experienced. Again, it's not about your ivory tower morality judgements from on high. It's about the reality of the economy -- the once booming middle-class is being eradicated, and the segments that are growing are low-income, and the very-high income. ie, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The middle-class and the promise of the American dream of my parents and grand-parents age where a single-earner need only show up and work hard to get that house and two cars is long gone. 
    Please, I see people complain all the time how they have no money and the "man" is out to get them. Yet, they never miss their daily starbucks run, meals out, hulu, netflix, and spotify subscriptions and new car lease every 3 years. And they are dumbfounded on where all their money went.
    Uh oh, you've distracted yourself! We were discussing whether it was normal or not for people to not pay off their debts every single month. You claimed most do. I said most don't, which is how I was employed by one of the major credit lenders.

    Most of the world runs on credit & debt, actually. Everything from governments to big business to construction projects....nobody pays cash. They borrow, and repay. That you aren't aware of this means you live in a pretty small micro verse when it comes to business. Cute tho. Tout your fiscal conservation! Rawr!
    fastasleepmike1netmageJustSomeGuy1
  • Reply 76 of 283
    Shut up and take my money! (and give me 2% back)
    I’ll take my 5%
    Do tell: how do you get 5% back on "most things"?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 77 of 283
    65026502 Posts: 276member
    6502 said:
    Soli said:
    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    So you would never have a mortgage for a home? Do you really think that most people pay for homes in cash up front?
    We're talking about credit card debt; people aren't financing their homes on their credit cards. People buy starbucks coffee on their credit card and then take a year to pay it off. It's stupidity. As Dave Ramsey says, a mortgage is the only acceptable debt and it should be paid off as fast as possible. It's only acceptable as it is an asset that goes up in value, unlike nearly everything else we buy.
    I'm complete fine with a car loan. I'd rather not pay cash all at once for something I can spread out over time. Doing so is a feature, and that feature has a price. Since I have the earning ability to pay for that feature, I don't stay up at nite over it. YMMV.

    Good luck waging your fiscal holy war on the internet, tho! I'm sure you'll change a lot of hearts & minds! Go get 'em!
    I pay cash for all my cars. And, I sleep like a baby at night knowing I don't owe anyone a nickel. The borrower is slave to the lender. You are criticizing me for being fiscally sound? LOL. If you enjoy paying fees and interest be my guest. I know I'll never be sued for not being able to pay on a load I don't have.
    designrmuthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 78 of 283
    sflocalsflocal Posts: 4,684member
    6502 said:
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    So you paid for your house, car, maybe even the new kitchen appliances all in cash right?

    The moment you you think that all people should do what you think is right, you lose all credibility.
    roundaboutnowmike1netmagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 79 of 283
    monstrositymonstrosity Posts: 2,209member
    mac_128 said:
    It just had to be Goldman Sachs ...
    Yup. In bed with the globalists 
  • Reply 80 of 283
    65026502 Posts: 276member
    6502 said:

    6502 said:
    wizard69 said:
    Soli said:
    hmlongco said:
    Standard isn’t always best when many cards have better rewards than 2%. Also, my standard purchases are extremely low compared to other categories. There’s practically nowhere that I purchase things that I can’t get at least 3% back and up to 5% on most things. 

    Depends on how one defines "best", doesn't it? The Amazon Prime Store Card, for example, gives you 5% back... with a 28.24% annual APR.

    Apple committed to a low (albeit unspecified) APR, with no fees, no late charges, and no penalties. Not to mention the not-so-minor fact that you get your rewards back daily as Apple Cash. Not at the end of the month, not when you redeem them. Daily.

    Then there's the secure unique randomized card number per transaction. No number or signature to steal on the physical card. No tracking of purchases. No sales of transaction data.

    I don't know about you, but there's a ton of value in privacy and security.
    Fees and APRs don’t matter if you pay your balance in full. 
    You realize that being able to pay off your cards every month isn’t the norm, right?
    If you think the “norm” is being stupid then we have a problem.  By the way I learned this the hardway and have drastically changed my use of a credit card.    At this point I try to keep all card purchases beyond an emergency  at a level easily payable every month.   The average person can literally save themselves hundreds of dollars a year by doing so.  

    Frankly it wouldnt hurt for our educational system teach students why being conservative in your use of money is so important.  
    Whether you believe it's stupid or not is completely irrelevant. Most people cannot pay off their cc every single month, and use it to get by when they need to. It's not even a matter of intelligence, I assure you.
    Maybe you shouldn't buy what you can't afford then. And, I doubt it's most people.
    You're free to doubt whatever you like. I worked for Capital One corporate for years and will believe and share what I experienced. Again, it's not about your ivory tower morality judgements from on high. It's about the reality of the economy -- the once booming middle-class is being eradicated, and the segments that are growing are low-income, and the very-high income. ie, the rich get richer while the poor get poorer. The middle-class and the promise of the American dream of my parents and grand-parents age where a single-earner need only show up and work hard to get that house and two cars is long gone. 
    Please, I see people complain all the time how they have no money and the "man" is out to get them. Yet, they never miss their daily starbucks run, meals out, hulu, netflix, and spotify subscriptions and new car lease every 3 years. And they are dumbfounded on where all their money went.
    Uh oh, you've distracted yourself! We were discussing whether it was normal or not for people to not pay off their debts every single month. You claimed most do. I said most don't, which is how I was employed by one of the major credit lenders.

    Most of the world runs on credit & debt, actually. Everything from governments to big business to construction projects....nobody pays cash. They borrow, and repay. That you aren't aware of this means you live in a pretty small micro verse when it comes to business. Cute tho. Tout your fiscal conservation! Rawr!
    We're talking about personal finance. And, plenty of companies have gone bankrupt over not paying off their debts. Remember Toy R Us, Radio shack, Sports Authority, Payless, Sears, and on and on...
    designr
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