Pretty much everything Apple announced yesterday was “me too”. And the only thing that seemed Apple like was the new credit card. Everything else was working backwards from the financials to a product. Everything else was we need to be able to charge customers a monthly fee which - will grow services revenue and offset declining hardware revenue - so come up with something. And from what I’m seeing in my twitter feed Apple News+ Is quite buggy right now. That along with most everything else announced not being available until the fall makes me wonder if this stuff was announced before it was ready. Hard to get excited for something you can’t get for at least 6 months and have no idea what it will cost.
It's as though people commenting here have never noticed how Apple operates. Literally less than two minutes into Tim Cook's remarks, he has it all laid out in three colorful spots on the big screen behind him: hardware, software, and services. He contextualized it and explained that this keynote would be all about services. Apple integrates each of these things with the others to work as a whole. It's in the very foundation of Apple's business model. They're not creating more services in order to offset declining revenue for hardware. They're creating more services to make the hardware and software more functional and useful to their customers. They're enhancing the Apple ecosystem, increasing the likelihood that iPhone sales will also drive decisions to buy ATVs, iPads, HomePods, Macs, AirPods, and Apple Watches.
Aren't many (all?) of these new services rumored or said or whatever to be available on Android, Chrome, Tizen, WebOS and "other" devices too rather than just Apple hardware? If so that kinda negates your claim that it's all intended to sell iPads and iPhones barring something like "hey it's all free if you buy one".
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Like the article says, regarding your anecdote about the HomePod, we've heard this about other Apple hardware too. Namely, the Apple Watch.
I don't think that years later, you can call it a failure. And, I don't think that years later the HomePod will be called that either.
I was obviously poking fun at his argument a little but not much. I have no idea what the long term sales of HomePod will be - if they give it the attention they gave the Mac Mini, it will probably be very slow in taking off. If they commit to it like they have the Apple Watch then it stands a better chance. Even if they sell like hot cakes how much is that really going to add in terms of market cap? People are not going to upgrade speakers every few years. Thing is, who knows what they will do. The real hit for me yesterday was their new Apple Card as it can shake up the Fintec industry. They put a lot of though into swiping a card and the convenience, security and privacy around that. If they can create and license content for the stream app that is actually worth watching that’s great but is it going to add ~160 billion that Netflix has? Probably not, no matter how long the outlook. Ping me in 4 years if I am proved wrong.
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Like the article says, regarding your anecdote about the HomePod, we've heard this about other Apple hardware too. Namely, the Apple Watch.
I don't think that years later, you can call it a failure. And, I don't think that years later the HomePod will be called that either.
I was obviously poking fun at his argument a little but not much. I have no idea what the long term sales of HomePod will be - if they give it the attention they gave the Mac Mini, it will probably be very slow in taking off. If they commit to it like they have the Apple Watch then it stands a better chance. Even if they sell like hot cakes how much is that really going to add in terms of market cap? People are not going to upgrade speakers every few years. Thing is, who knows what they will do. The real hit for me yesterday was their new Apple Card as it can shake up the Fintec industry. They put a lot of though into swiping a card and the convenience, security and privacy around that. If they can create and license content for the stream app that is actually worth watching that’s great but is it going to add ~160 billion that Netflix has? Probably not, no matter how long the outlook. Ping me in 4 years if I am proved wrong.
AppleInsider's been here for 25 years, I think we can do that
But, for perspective, if the HomePod has sold about 6 million units in a year, according to Strategy Analytics (who generally undercounts what Apple sells), that's a billion-dollar plus business by itself.
Pretty much everything Apple announced yesterday was “me too”. And the only thing that seemed Apple like was the new credit card. Everything else was working backwards from the financials to a product.
Agreed except I think the credit card was the most obvious thing they did that worked backwards from financials. I have no idea about exact numbers in the CC business, but I suspect Apple will easily add a few billion $ to the bottom line with that alone. The others seem like a more natural extension of what they're already doing and where they've been heading.
That along with most everything else announced not being available until the fall makes me wonder if this stuff was announced before it was ready. Hard to get excited for something you can’t get for at least 6 months and have no idea what it will cost.
I wondered the same thing. No doubt they've had a lot of these things in the works at least conceptually. But this was a "show everyone (stockholders) we're serious about services too" thing. Which is all well and fine except if that analysis is right it suggests a short-term knee-jerk reaction more than a long-term strategy. It might play out okay long-term, but I suspect this article might be giving too much credit too soon to Apple leadership.
I mentioned the credit card because it seemed like an Apple type solution to something that can suck. I don’t agree about the others though. Apple has never been a gaming company nor creator of original content. When iTunes came out Apple didn’t become a record label. To me it isn’t a natural progression but rather looking for things they can charge people a monthly fee for.
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Like the article says, regarding your anecdote about the HomePod, we've heard this about other Apple hardware too. Namely, the Apple Watch.
I don't think that years later, you can call it a failure. And, I don't think that years later the HomePod will be called that either.
I was obviously poking fun at his argument a little but not much. I have no idea what the long term sales of HomePod will be - if they give it the attention they gave the Mac Mini, it will probably be very slow in taking off. If they commit to it like they have the Apple Watch then it stands a better chance. Even if they sell like hot cakes how much is that really going to add in terms of market cap? People are not going to upgrade speakers every few years. Thing is, who knows what they will do. The real hit for me yesterday was their new Apple Card as it can shake up the Fintec industry. They put a lot of though into swiping a card and the convenience, security and privacy around that. If they can create and license content for the stream app that is actually worth watching that’s great but is it going to add ~160 billion that Netflix has? Probably not, no matter how long the outlook. Ping me in 4 years if I am proved wrong.
AppleInsider's been here for 25 years, I think we can do that
But, for perspective, if the HomePod has sold about 6 million units in a year, according to Strategy Analytics (who generally undercounts what Apple sells), that's a billion-dollar plus business by itself.
Mike, any idea what the wholesale prices are that a company like Best Buy or Target pays compared to Apple's retail price? Always been curious about that.
Pretty much everything Apple announced yesterday was “me too”. And the only thing that seemed Apple like was the new credit card. Everything else was working backwards from the financials to a product. Everything else was we need to be able to charge customers a monthly fee which - will grow services revenue and offset declining hardware revenue - so come up with something. And from what I’m seeing in my twitter feed Apple News+ Is quite buggy right now. That along with most everything else announced not being available until the fall makes me wonder if this stuff was announced before it was ready. Hard to get excited for something you can’t get for at least 6 months and have no idea what it will cost.
It's as though people commenting here have never noticed how Apple operates. Literally less than two minutes into Tim Cook's remarks, he has it all laid out in three colorful spots on the big screen behind him: hardware, software, and services. He contextualized it and explained that this keynote would be all about services. Apple integrates each of these things with the others to work as a whole. It's in the very foundation of Apple's business model. They're not creating more services in order to offset declining revenue for hardware. They're creating more services to make the hardware and software more functional and useful to their customers. They're enhancing the Apple ecosystem, increasing the likelihood that iPhone sales will also drive decisions to buy ATVs, iPads, HomePods, Macs, AirPods, and Apple Watches.
Aren't many (all?) of these new services rumored or said or whatever to be available on Android, Chrome, Tizen, WebOS and "other" devices too rather than just Apple hardware? If so that kinda negates your claim that it's all intended to sell iPads and iPhones barring something like "hey it's all free if you buy one".
Nope. They’re making an ATV app available for some other devices, yes, but only on devices that connect to your TV. It’s not going to be available on android devices. That lets them compete that service a little more broadly with Netflix, etc. in your living room. It gives people an entry into the Apple ecosystem far more than it would serve as a way to ditch Apple hardware for the competition. If you sign up for ATV channels and programming and want to get off the couch and take those with you, you’ll need an iPhone or iPad. Or a Mac.
Apple Arcade, News, and Card all live on Apple devices. The card has a physical card for places that don’t take Apple Pay, but the card doesn’t have account numbers printed on it. You have to pull those up on your iPhone, meaning you can’t use that service without having an iPhone.
These services are all designed to pull people into the Apple ecosystem, not compete as standalone businesses.
Pretty much everything Apple announced yesterday was “me too”. And the only thing that seemed Apple like was the new credit card. Everything else was working backwards from the financials to a product. Everything else was we need to be able to charge customers a monthly fee which - will grow services revenue and offset declining hardware revenue - so come up with something. And from what I’m seeing in my twitter feed Apple News+ Is quite buggy right now. That along with most everything else announced not being available until the fall makes me wonder if this stuff was announced before it was ready. Hard to get excited for something you can’t get for at least 6 months and have no idea what it will cost.
It's as though people commenting here have never noticed how Apple operates. Literally less than two minutes into Tim Cook's remarks, he has it all laid out in three colorful spots on the big screen behind him: hardware, software, and services. He contextualized it and explained that this keynote would be all about services. Apple integrates each of these things with the others to work as a whole. It's in the very foundation of Apple's business model. They're not creating more services in order to offset declining revenue for hardware. They're creating more services to make the hardware and software more functional and useful to their customers. They're enhancing the Apple ecosystem, increasing the likelihood that iPhone sales will also drive decisions to buy ATVs, iPads, HomePods, Macs, AirPods, and Apple Watches.
Aren't many (all?) of these new services rumored or said or whatever to be available on Android, Chrome, Tizen, WebOS and "other" devices too rather than just Apple hardware? If so that kinda negates your claim that it's all intended to sell iPads and iPhones barring something like "hey it's all free if you buy one".
Nope. They’re making an ATV app available for some other devices, yes, but only on devices that connect to your TV. It’s not going to be available on android devices. That lets them compete that service a little more broadly with Netflix, etc. in your living room. It gives people an entry into the Apple ecosystem far more than it would serve as a way to ditch Apple hardware for the competition.
Apple Arcade, News, and Card all live on Apple devices. The card has a physical card for places that don’t take Apple Pay, but the card doesn’t have account numbers printed on it. You have to pull those up on your iPhone, meaning you can’t use that service without having an iPhone.
These services are all designed to pull people into the Apple ecosystem, not compete as standalone businesses.
Yeah I know about the credit card. Cool thing it is. Perhaps it was simply "they should do this" instead of "they're reportedly planning to do this" when it comes to Apple News+ and Apple TV+.
The Apple Music subscription is of course available, even rolling out to Chromebooks yesterday but Apple may look at that service differently than News and TV.
It doesn't quite work this way. Even when Apple owns the content they're just one provider out of many. Yeah they have deep pockets ..so what? Netflix doesn't have retail stores or an OS to maintain.
I think the problem we're seeing is the large companies are encroaching into others territories even if it doesn't make sense because they think that will keep Wall Street at bay. Every large company is telegraphing that they essentially don't have a solid clue on what the future holds. They're pushing AI and AR like it's something consumers are going to open the wallets for.
Streaming media doesn't address issues. It's a diversion and escapism. The CEO of a company provides the grand vision and direction for the future and it's abundantly clear that Apple doesn't have the visionary they need at the helm.
Apple needs to start grooming a charismatic leader that can assume the reigns in a few years. Someone younger that can connect with the younger generations and have new ideas and perspectives about the future of computing.
There is no long game or long tail here. This is flailing in the wind.
Netflix has to make all their money off subscriptions. All of it.
We’ve seen Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. draw subscribers by creating original content that creates a buzz. Netflix and Hulu do that to get subscribers because that’s all of their revenue. Amazon does that to get Prime members who will in turn spend money and buy actual stuff from Amazon. That’s where they generate revenue.
Apple will use their ATV+ service to draw customers into their hardware ecosystem, which is where they make the most revenue. Right now, all the content available on Apple TV is available from other sources. When they start creating original content, every subscriber will represent retained or potential new customers for Apple hardware. They will not have to beat Netflix in market share (or even come close) for this venture to represent considerably more revenue than Netflix could ever hope to generate.
There is no flailing here. This is Apple playing the long game once again.
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Like the article says, regarding your anecdote about the HomePod, we've heard this about other Apple hardware too. Namely, the Apple Watch.
I don't think that years later, you can call it a failure. And, I don't think that years later the HomePod will be called that either.
I was obviously poking fun at his argument a little but not much. I have no idea what the long term sales of HomePod will be - if they give it the attention they gave the Mac Mini, it will probably be very slow in taking off. If they commit to it like they have the Apple Watch then it stands a better chance. Even if they sell like hot cakes how much is that really going to add in terms of market cap? People are not going to upgrade speakers every few years. Thing is, who knows what they will do. The real hit for me yesterday was their new Apple Card as it can shake up the Fintec industry. They put a lot of though into swiping a card and the convenience, security and privacy around that. If they can create and license content for the stream app that is actually worth watching that’s great but is it going to add ~160 billion that Netflix has? Probably not, no matter how long the outlook. Ping me in 4 years if I am proved wrong.
AppleInsider's been here for 25 years, I think we can do that
But, for perspective, if the HomePod has sold about 6 million units in a year, according to Strategy Analytics (who generally undercounts what Apple sells), that's a billion-dollar plus business by itself.
Mike, any idea what the wholesale prices are that a company like Best Buy or Target pays compared to Apple's retail price? Always been curious about that.
The people I've spoken to at big chains seem to think that orbital death-lasers will strike them dead if they talk about it, but the independent Apple vendors I talked to last year in September showed me receipts for about $285 per unit wholesale.
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Like the article says, regarding your anecdote about the HomePod, we've heard this about other Apple hardware too. Namely, the Apple Watch.
I don't think that years later, you can call it a failure. And, I don't think that years later the HomePod will be called that either.
I was obviously poking fun at his argument a little but not much. I have no idea what the long term sales of HomePod will be - if they give it the attention they gave the Mac Mini, it will probably be very slow in taking off. If they commit to it like they have the Apple Watch then it stands a better chance. Even if they sell like hot cakes how much is that really going to add in terms of market cap? People are not going to upgrade speakers every few years. Thing is, who knows what they will do. The real hit for me yesterday was their new Apple Card as it can shake up the Fintec industry. They put a lot of though into swiping a card and the convenience, security and privacy around that. If they can create and license content for the stream app that is actually worth watching that’s great but is it going to add ~160 billion that Netflix has? Probably not, no matter how long the outlook. Ping me in 4 years if I am proved wrong.
AppleInsider's been here for 25 years, I think we can do that
But, for perspective, if the HomePod has sold about 6 million units in a year, according to Strategy Analytics (who generally undercounts what Apple sells), that's a billion-dollar plus business by itself.
Mike, any idea what the wholesale prices are that a company like Best Buy or Target pays compared to Apple's retail price? Always been curious about that.
The people I've spoken to at big chains seem to think that orbital death-lasers will strike them dead if they talk about it, but the independent Apple vendors I talked to last year in September showed me receipts for about $285 per unit wholesale.
So the big boxes may get a little better discount, volume and all that. Thanks Mike.
Pretty much everything Apple announced yesterday was “me too”. And the only thing that seemed Apple like was the new credit card. Everything else was working backwards from the financials to a product.
Agreed except I think the credit card was the most obvious thing they did that worked backwards from financials. I have no idea about exact numbers in the CC business, but I suspect Apple will easily add a few billion $ to the bottom line with that alone. The others seem like a more natural extension of what they're already doing and where they've been heading.
That along with most everything else announced not being available until the fall makes me wonder if this stuff was announced before it was ready. Hard to get excited for something you can’t get for at least 6 months and have no idea what it will cost.
I wondered the same thing. No doubt they've had a lot of these things in the works at least conceptually. But this was a "show everyone (stockholders) we're serious about services too" thing. Which is all well and fine except if that analysis is right it suggests a short-term knee-jerk reaction more than a long-term strategy. It might play out okay long-term, but I suspect this article might be giving too much credit too soon to Apple leadership.
I mentioned the credit card because it seemed like an Apple type solution to something that can suck. I don’t agree about the others though. Apple has never been a gaming company nor creator of original content. When iTunes came out Apple didn’t become a record label. To me it isn’t a natural progression but rather looking for things they can charge people a monthly fee for.
2007: 'Apple has never been a cellphone company. These iPhones aren't a natural progression from Macs or iPods, but rather looking for things they can charge to people's monthly cellphone bill.'
Content? When Steve Jobs was in exile, he became CEO of a company called Pixar, which made a movie called Toy Story. I know. it didn't amount to much, but it still suggests maybe content creation isn't entirely absent from Apple's DNA.
Streaming media doesn't address issues. It's a diversion and escapism. The CEO of a company provides the grand vision and direction for the future and it's abundantly clear that Apple doesn't have the visionary they need at the helm.
Apple needs to start grooming a charismatic leader that can assume the reigns in a few years. Someone younger that can connect with the younger generations and have new ideas and perspectives about the future of computing.
There is no long game or long tail here. This is flailing in the wind.
Nuts. You’re under the misguided and uninformed opinion that most CEOs are charismatic founders and product visionaries. That simply isn’t true. Nor is it required. Jobs was unusual in this way, and left normal CEO responsibilities to people like....Cook.
Apple is the most financially healthy public corp in existence. They have phenomenal revenue and decades of savings in the bank. It simply doesn’t get any better. And yet there are still fools who claim they’re flailing and doomed.
Don’t quit your day job. I know it isn’t running a company. (Mine was, once, but I wasn’t very good at it either).
Depends on the company. No one would say that T-Mobile's John Legere isn't charismatic. No one would say that Nvidia's Jensen Huang isn't charismatic ditto for Larry Ellison. CEO are about guiding the company which entails selecting the right products and services and taking lead of market segments. Of course Jobs was unusual. He wasn't churned out by some University, he had a knack for what would work..what could be sold. Jobs was a generation leader and his innate understanding of people is the diametrically opposed to Tim Cook's wooden persona. Jobs was so brilliant he understood that Cook was the guy because he wouldn't squander the potential of the iPhone.
We're getting to the point where we need someone more like Jobs. They understand people and how they tick and can infuse the company with a new outlook. The financial health comes from Jobsian Apple. It's going to be a much tougher battle to find that next lucrative goldmine. Apple blew it with Voice Assistants ...full on pants down embarrassment. The cylindrical Mac Pro is a unmitigated disaster. They keep acquiring VR and AR companies but they don't seem to know what to do. They're embarking on a car mission that doomed to fail. iTunes has withered on the vine. Apple Music is no better than the competition. The Apple Watch is superlative the iPhone is still one of the best phones out there but the wins are coming slowly.
Hey file this for claim chowder but Dream Teams are supposed to deliver. "We have amazing products in the pipeline" where are they?
Hopefully this long game is a lot shorter than the one they are playing with Siri, Apple maps and HomePod, iBook, MacPro etc. They seem like they just don’t know what they really want to be as a company. Will this add Netflix like numbers to the company or be the next ping?
Huh? HomePod is a new product and I liked it so much I bought two.
So that is where that unexplained 50% bump in sales came from in HomePod sales! They are selling so well I see that they are offering steep discounts to keep them on the shelves. As for trips to the moon, it wouldn't surprise me if they try a "me to, me too, look at me" SpaceX style venture next, much like they did with the highly successful Project Titan that is really ramping up now (no doubt it too will be described as another long road effort ....) /s
Comments
But, for perspective, if the HomePod has sold about 6 million units in a year, according to Strategy Analytics (who generally undercounts what Apple sells), that's a billion-dollar plus business by itself.
Apple Arcade, News, and Card all live on Apple devices. The card has a physical card for places that don’t take Apple Pay, but the card doesn’t have account numbers printed on it. You have to pull those up on your iPhone, meaning you can’t use that service without having an iPhone.
These services are all designed to pull people into the Apple ecosystem, not compete as standalone businesses.
The Apple Music subscription is of course available, even rolling out to Chromebooks yesterday but Apple may look at that service differently than News and TV.
We’ve seen Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, etc. draw subscribers by creating original content that creates a buzz. Netflix and Hulu do that to get subscribers because that’s all of their revenue. Amazon does that to get Prime members who will in turn spend money and buy actual stuff from Amazon. That’s where they generate revenue.
Apple will use their ATV+ service to draw customers into their hardware ecosystem, which is where they make the most revenue. Right now, all the content available on Apple TV is available from other sources. When they start creating original content, every subscriber will represent retained or potential new customers for Apple hardware. They will not have to beat Netflix in market share (or even come close) for this venture to represent considerably more revenue than Netflix could ever hope to generate.
There is no flailing here. This is Apple playing the long game once again.
Content? When Steve Jobs was in exile, he became CEO of a company called Pixar, which made a movie called Toy Story. I know. it didn't amount to much, but it still suggests maybe content creation isn't entirely absent from Apple's DNA.
Depends on the company. No one would say that T-Mobile's John Legere isn't charismatic. No one would say that Nvidia's Jensen Huang isn't charismatic ditto for Larry Ellison. CEO are about guiding the company which entails selecting the right products and services and taking lead of market segments. Of course Jobs was unusual. He wasn't churned out by some University, he had a knack for what would work..what could be sold. Jobs was a generation leader and his innate understanding of people is the diametrically opposed to Tim Cook's wooden persona. Jobs was so brilliant he understood that Cook was the guy because he wouldn't squander the potential of the iPhone.
We're getting to the point where we need someone more like Jobs. They understand people and how they tick and can infuse the company with a new outlook. The financial health comes from Jobsian Apple. It's going to be a much tougher battle to find that next lucrative goldmine. Apple blew it with Voice Assistants ...full on pants down embarrassment. The cylindrical Mac Pro is a unmitigated disaster. They keep acquiring VR and AR companies but they don't seem to know what to do. They're embarking on a car mission that doomed to fail. iTunes has withered on the vine. Apple Music is no better than the competition. The Apple Watch is superlative the iPhone is still one of the best phones out there but the wins are coming slowly.
Hey file this for claim chowder but Dream Teams are supposed to deliver. "We have amazing products in the pipeline" where are they?