Apple services & Apple Card 'too late to the game,' HSBC downgrades stock

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 83
    Gee, HSBC wouldn’t have a dog in this fight, would they?
    I wonder that, too. It does look like a political move. Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corporation certainly has a dubious history. For five years they breached US sanctions on Iran by facilitating Iran money transfers for Huawei. HSBC maintains headquarters in London, but Xi Jinping has full control.
  • Reply 62 of 83
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 31,518member
    badmonk said:
    Soli said:
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    What innovation has Apple brought to the credit card? What are they doing that no one else is doing?
    A: Higher rewards when using Apple Pay (over the physical card) to help push the adoption of a more secure payment system.
    No signature on the card
    No number on the card
    No magnetic strip on the card
    No hidden fees, just a fluctuating interest rate.
    Backed up with biometric data on a secure enclave.
    Real time use data.
    No secret 3 digit code printed on the card.
    Anonymous transaction data.
    Real titanium, not just silver plastic.

    Two years from now all cards will be like this and ten years from now everyone will forget it was an Apple innovation.
    Ten years from now, unless one is using cash I’m assuming almost all transactions at point of sale will be ApplePay or app-based.
  • Reply 63 of 83
    1348513485 Posts: 81member
    Not disagreeing about things being unclear, but I will argue the point about a television-news-show comedy/drama series -- ever hear of the Mary Tyler Moore Show? -- I think that was a minor hit. ... And the Oprah introduction was way over the top and just kind of wrong, but you are kidding yourself if you think an Oprah + Prince Harry project isn't going to get traction with, for example, my spouse.

    I'm concerned the Ron Moore sci-fi drama is dead -- he isn't in the promotional photo, and as far as I know we haven't heard anything about it beyond the initial news, which worries me -- that's one of the things I was looking forward to.
    Well, living in Minnesota I'm quite familiar with all things MTM as civic leaders seem to think we're still just enthralled with her and the show. A statue downtown! Look that's the house she lived in on the TV show! 

     But that's exactly my point: the Mary Tyler Moore show went off the air 42 years ago. It was amusing at the time in a 70's sort of way (ya had to be there...). Who wanted it back? 
  • Reply 64 of 83
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,327member
    According to the NY Post Apple paid over $485M for Texture. Assuming they had less than 200k subs (which is what the NY Times reported) that would mean Apple paid at 20x multiple for a magazine app. Crazy. https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/apple-to-shutter-texture-and-replace-it-with-news-app/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    Apple Music had 200K subs at one time. You’re really triggered by this services stuff. O_o
    edited April 10
  • Reply 65 of 83
    FranculesFrancules Posts: 110member
    I rather invest in making the world a better place. 
  • Reply 66 of 83
    MacPro said:
    The Apple Card will be a huge success as will the Apple Car deployment when it comes (both seemingly late to the game) ... why ...?  Because the people who buy Apple gear are the perfect clients for both services and allow Apple to focus on that massive and fairly affluent market.  I say this about the Apple Car as I believe it will be part of an Uber type service, not an end user product such as the Tesla is.  Two trillion market cap by 2025.
    I'm surprised the report yesterday by Morgan Stanley hasn't gained more traction here.  In it they say that Apple could be doing more than $300 Billion annual revenue in the health care industry by 2027.  I don't know what the margins would be but it would be mind boggling.  Might make your two trillion market cap look puny.  At least I hope it does.
    edited April 10
  • Reply 68 of 83
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,149member
    Just remember all these analyst are just doing their job. Their mantra of the job is manipulating market by influencing people. So you may read along but always keep the fact in the back of your mind. Do not just accept 'what they said' as 'fact', though they may sound like it.
    edited April 10
  • Reply 69 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    MacPro said:
    The Apple Card will be a huge success as will the Apple Car deployment when it comes (both seemingly late to the game) ... why ...?  Because the people who buy Apple gear are the perfect clients for both services and allow Apple to focus on that massive and fairly affluent market.  I say this about the Apple Car as I believe it will be part of an Uber type service, not an end user product such as the Tesla is.  Two trillion market cap by 2025.
    I'm surprised the report yesterday by Morgan Stanley hasn't gained more traction here.  In it they say that Apple could be doing more than $300 Billion annual revenue in the health care industry by 2027.  I don't know what the margins would be but it would be mind boggling.  Might make your two trillion market cap look puny.  At least I hope it does.
    Why would anyone take some pie in the sky report seriously? That’s as bad as when Gene Munster was banging on about television sets and cars. Sure there’s all kinds of opportunities in health care but throwing out a bunch of stuff and then putting a monetary value on it based on zero knowledge of what Apple is actually working on is silly.
  • Reply 70 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    According to the NY Post Apple paid over $485M for Texture. Assuming they had less than 200k subs (which is what the NY Times reported) that would mean Apple paid at 20x multiple for a magazine app. Crazy. https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/apple-to-shutter-texture-and-replace-it-with-news-app/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    Apple Music had 200K subs at one time. You’re really triggered by this services stuff. O_o
    Nah I just think Apple was a more exciting company when it was focused on great products. Now the Apple news app is spamming users with ads for Apple News + after every news section. I’m sure it won’t be long before the wallet app has ads for Apple Card. Sigh.


  • Reply 71 of 83
    kevin keekevin kee Posts: 1,149member
    hentaiboy said:
    The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer.
    Do you wish to elaborate?
    No signature on the card
    No number on the card
    No magnetic strip on the card
    No hidden fees, just a fluctuating interest rate.
    Backed up with biometric data on a secure enclave.
    Real time use data.
    No secret 3 digit code printed on the card.
    Anonymous transaction data.
    Real titanium, not just silver plastic.
    Others certainly 'can' try to make something similiar but they 'can't'.
  • Reply 72 of 83
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 3,327member
    According to the NY Post Apple paid over $485M for Texture. Assuming they had less than 200k subs (which is what the NY Times reported) that would mean Apple paid at 20x multiple for a magazine app. Crazy. https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/apple-to-shutter-texture-and-replace-it-with-news-app/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    Apple Music had 200K subs at one time. You’re really triggered by this services stuff. O_o
    Nah I just think Apple was a more exciting company when it was focused on great products. Now the Apple news app is spamming users with ads for Apple News + after every news section. I’m sure it won’t be long before the wallet app has ads for Apple Card. Sigh.


    God, who cares? They already had ads in News, now they're just Apple's because they have a new thing. Big deal.
  • Reply 73 of 83
    hentaiboyhentaiboy Posts: 1,034member
    badmonk said:
    No number on the card
    How do you use it for online purchases/stores/utilities that require a CC number?
  • Reply 74 of 83
    Johan42Johan42 Posts: 163member
    mac_dog said:
    Apple is still a disrupter. The credit card, insurance  industries are possibly the last of the sectors that, thus far, have skated by without any real innovation. And they’re soiling themselves. 
    Apple Card is as basic as basic can get.
    chemengin
  • Reply 75 of 83
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,213member
    According to the NY Post Apple paid over $485M for Texture. Assuming they had less than 200k subs (which is what the NY Times reported) that would mean Apple paid at 20x multiple for a magazine app. Crazy. https://nypost.com/2019/04/09/apple-to-shutter-texture-and-replace-it-with-news-app/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
    Apple Music had 200K subs at one time. You’re really triggered by this services stuff. O_o
    Nah I just think Apple was a more exciting company when it was focused on great products. Now the Apple news app is spamming users with ads for Apple News + after every news section. I’m sure it won’t be long before the wallet app has ads for Apple Card. Sigh.


    God, who cares? They already had ads in News, now they're just Apple's because they have a new thing. Big deal.
    I never saw an ad in the news app prior to this. And if this was anyone else I highly doubt AI posters would be saying big deal.
  • Reply 76 of 83
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,159member
    Soli said:
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 3% back on Apple purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 2% bak on Apple Pay-based purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you your cash back that day instead of waiting for the billing cycle to roll over (and in many cases only give you half your percentage back until you pay off your charges)?
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero late fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for paying on time?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero on overage fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for not going over your balance?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than a laser etched, titanium card? (How is that even quantifiable?)
    What cards do you have incentive the security of Apple Pay over using the physical card counterpart?
    What cards do you have that are available via Apple Pay after you've signed up and before you've received your physical card?

    Saying the Card doesn't offer anything because it exits within the reality of finance and credit cards is like arguing that Apple's A-series chips are meh because Apple licenses from ARM instead of reinventing the entire microprocessor from the ground up. Being the best and most idealized option doesn't mean that everything has to outlandishly original to be an effective product—nor does it have to be the best option for everyone. You're a frequent travel so you prefer your Delta card for airline miles? That's perfectly fine just as there are legitimate reasons one needs or prefers an Android phone or Windows laptop without having to hate Apple for existing.
    Amazon,Citi, Chase and Discover just to name a few.
     
    Literally almost all my cards since they are all in the wallet app already for use with NFC payments. 

    Capital One and Navy Federal offers cash back as soon as the purchase posts. But I don’t care about the few cents to a few dollars a day I get anyway as it has no impact on my budget and I turn them all in once a year anyway. Non issue. 

    Late fees never worry me as I never occur them. Non issue. 

    Once again, a non issue since I have such high limits overage fees will never happen. 

    Have a few metal cards. Don’t care about that at all as all that does is try and impress others which I don’t care about. Non issue. 

    Have almost all my cards res in the Wallet app already for use for NFC payments. Same security. Non issue. 

    Have many cards that that beat the Apple Card so don’t care about having it the same day. Once again, a non issue. 

    Don’t hate Apple as all my products are Apple. But I do play the credit card churning game and all of us don’t see that much of a benefit with the Apple Card. I’ll make more money off of other cards. 
  • Reply 77 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,391member
    Soli said:
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 3% back on Apple purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 2% bak on Apple Pay-based purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you your cash back that day instead of waiting for the billing cycle to roll over (and in many cases only give you half your percentage back until you pay off your charges)?
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero late fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for paying on time?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero on overage fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for not going over your balance?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than a laser etched, titanium card? (How is that even quantifiable?)
    What cards do you have incentive the security of Apple Pay over using the physical card counterpart?
    What cards do you have that are available via Apple Pay after you've signed up and before you've received your physical card?

    Saying the Card doesn't offer anything because it exits within the reality of finance and credit cards is like arguing that Apple's A-series chips are meh because Apple licenses from ARM instead of reinventing the entire microprocessor from the ground up. Being the best and most idealized option doesn't mean that everything has to outlandishly original to be an effective product—nor does it have to be the best option for everyone. You're a frequent travel so you prefer your Delta card for airline miles? That's perfectly fine just as there are legitimate reasons one needs or prefers an Android phone or Windows laptop without having to hate Apple for existing.
    Amazon,Citi, Chase and Discover just to name a few.
     
    Literally almost all my cards since they are all in the wallet app already for use with NFC payments. 

    Capital One and Navy Federal offers cash back as soon as the purchase posts. But I don’t care about the few cents to a few dollars a day I get anyway as it has no impact on my budget and I turn them all in once a year anyway. Non issue. 

    Late fees never worry me as I never occur them. Non issue. 

    Once again, a non issue since I have such high limits overage fees will never happen. 

    Have a few metal cards. Don’t care about that at all as all that does is try and impress others which I don’t care about. Non issue. 

    Have almost all my cards res in the Wallet app already for use for NFC payments. Same security. Non issue. 

    Have many cards that that beat the Apple Card so don’t care about having it the same day. Once again, a non issue. 

    Don’t hate Apple as all my products are Apple. But I do play the credit card churning game and all of us don’t see that much of a benefit with the Apple Card. I’ll make more money off of other cards. 
    Again, which cards offer you better than 3% on Apple products or better than 2% as a minimum for NFC-based purchases?

    I’m not seeing a single one. I see one card for the former, the current Apple credit card from Barclays, that offers the same 3%, but you have to wait until you get $25 built up and then they mail you an Apple Store GC which makes it overall worse than their announced card, and many that equal the 2% back as a minimum, but nothing that “does better” for Apple Pay payments.

    I also see no other card that is designed to help spur increased awareness and usage of Apple Pay, only basic support for Apple Pay.
  • Reply 78 of 83
    sirlance99sirlance99 Posts: 1,159member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 3% back on Apple purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 2% bak on Apple Pay-based purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you your cash back that day instead of waiting for the billing cycle to roll over (and in many cases only give you half your percentage back until you pay off your charges)?
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero late fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for paying on time?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero on overage fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for not going over your balance?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than a laser etched, titanium card? (How is that even quantifiable?)
    What cards do you have incentive the security of Apple Pay over using the physical card counterpart?
    What cards do you have that are available via Apple Pay after you've signed up and before you've received your physical card?

    Saying the Card doesn't offer anything because it exits within the reality of finance and credit cards is like arguing that Apple's A-series chips are meh because Apple licenses from ARM instead of reinventing the entire microprocessor from the ground up. Being the best and most idealized option doesn't mean that everything has to outlandishly original to be an effective product—nor does it have to be the best option for everyone. You're a frequent travel so you prefer your Delta card for airline miles? That's perfectly fine just as there are legitimate reasons one needs or prefers an Android phone or Windows laptop without having to hate Apple for existing.
    Amazon,Citi, Chase and Discover just to name a few.
     
    Literally almost all my cards since they are all in the wallet app already for use with NFC payments. 

    Capital One and Navy Federal offers cash back as soon as the purchase posts. But I don’t care about the few cents to a few dollars a day I get anyway as it has no impact on my budget and I turn them all in once a year anyway. Non issue. 

    Late fees never worry me as I never occur them. Non issue. 

    Once again, a non issue since I have such high limits overage fees will never happen. 

    Have a few metal cards. Don’t care about that at all as all that does is try and impress others which I don’t care about. Non issue. 

    Have almost all my cards res in the Wallet app already for use for NFC payments. Same security. Non issue. 

    Have many cards that that beat the Apple Card so don’t care about having it the same day. Once again, a non issue. 

    Don’t hate Apple as all my products are Apple. But I do play the credit card churning game and all of us don’t see that much of a benefit with the Apple Card. I’ll make more money off of other cards. 
    Again, which cards offer you better than 3% on Apple products or better than 2% as a minimum for NFC-based purchases?

    I’m not seeing a single one. I see one card for the former, the current Apple credit card from Barclays, that offers the same 3%, but you have to wait until you get $25 built up and then they mail you an Apple Store GC which makes it overall worse than their announced card, and many that equal the 2% back as a minimum, but nothing that “does better” for Apple Pay payments.

    I also see no other card that is designed to help spur increased awareness and usage of Apple Pay, only basic support for Apple Pay.
    Easy, Amazon Store Card, Amazon Chase Card or Discover. 5% back. Since I don’t buy products at the Apple store because I can get them cheaper and get 5% back buying online, I’m saving even more money. So once again, NFC 3% is a non issue. Don’t care at all about getting the cash back immediately as it such a insufficient amount it has no bearing on my finances. 

    Where’s the price protection, where’s the extended warranty, where’s the many other rewards that other cards have that Apple Card does not? 

    The Apple Card is a middle of the road card. Better then some, worse than others. 
    chemengin
  • Reply 79 of 83
    JapheyJaphey Posts: 86member

    The Game? That phrase makes me laugh. It’s nothing more than the ignorant opinion of someone with a myopic perspective. 

    I would argue that the “game” hasn’t even begun. Hell, warmups haven’t even ended yet. So, while Disney and Apple may a bit late leaving the locker room, the real “game” won’t begin until they take the field. 

  • Reply 80 of 83
    SoliSoli Posts: 9,391member
    Soli said:
    Soli said:
    Did HSBC even bother to study these new services? The apple card is something no other card can even come close to offer. The TV service is also much more comprehensive than other services. If it was too late, I wonder why Samsung, LG and other makers have made Apple TV a native app on their smart TV.  Lastly their Apple Music was launched way after Spotify but has already surpassed paid users in USA. I think HSBC should worry more about their own performance which has dwindled along these years rather than making comments on subjects they are not even familiar with or made thorough study. 
    I have many card that beat the Apple Card. 
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 3% back on Apple purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you more than 2% bak on Apple Pay-based purchases?
    Which cards do you have that offer you your cash back that day instead of waiting for the billing cycle to roll over (and in many cases only give you half your percentage back until you pay off your charges)?
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero late fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for paying on time?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than zero on overage fees? (How is that even possible other than giving you some cash incentive for not going over your balance?)
    Which cards do you have that offer you better than a laser etched, titanium card? (How is that even quantifiable?)
    What cards do you have incentive the security of Apple Pay over using the physical card counterpart?
    What cards do you have that are available via Apple Pay after you've signed up and before you've received your physical card?

    Saying the Card doesn't offer anything because it exits within the reality of finance and credit cards is like arguing that Apple's A-series chips are meh because Apple licenses from ARM instead of reinventing the entire microprocessor from the ground up. Being the best and most idealized option doesn't mean that everything has to outlandishly original to be an effective product—nor does it have to be the best option for everyone. You're a frequent travel so you prefer your Delta card for airline miles? That's perfectly fine just as there are legitimate reasons one needs or prefers an Android phone or Windows laptop without having to hate Apple for existing.
    Amazon,Citi, Chase and Discover just to name a few.
     
    Literally almost all my cards since they are all in the wallet app already for use with NFC payments. 

    Capital One and Navy Federal offers cash back as soon as the purchase posts. But I don’t care about the few cents to a few dollars a day I get anyway as it has no impact on my budget and I turn them all in once a year anyway. Non issue. 

    Late fees never worry me as I never occur them. Non issue. 

    Once again, a non issue since I have such high limits overage fees will never happen. 

    Have a few metal cards. Don’t care about that at all as all that does is try and impress others which I don’t care about. Non issue. 

    Have almost all my cards res in the Wallet app already for use for NFC payments. Same security. Non issue. 

    Have many cards that that beat the Apple Card so don’t care about having it the same day. Once again, a non issue. 

    Don’t hate Apple as all my products are Apple. But I do play the credit card churning game and all of us don’t see that much of a benefit with the Apple Card. I’ll make more money off of other cards. 
    Again, which cards offer you better than 3% on Apple products or better than 2% as a minimum for NFC-based purchases?

    I’m not seeing a single one. I see one card for the former, the current Apple credit card from Barclays, that offers the same 3%, but you have to wait until you get $25 built up and then they mail you an Apple Store GC which makes it overall worse than their announced card, and many that equal the 2% back as a minimum, but nothing that “does better” for Apple Pay payments.

    I also see no other card that is designed to help spur increased awareness and usage of Apple Pay, only basic support for Apple Pay.
    Easy, Amazon Store Card, Amazon Chase Card or Discover. 5% back. Since I don’t buy products at the Apple store because I can get them cheaper and get 5% back buying online, I’m saving even more money. So once again, NFC 3% is a non issue. Don’t care at all about getting the cash back immediately as it such a insufficient amount it has no bearing on my finances. 

    Where’s the price protection, where’s the extended warranty, where’s the many other rewards that other cards have that Apple Card does not? 

    The Apple Card is a middle of the road card. Better then some, worse than others. 
    1) As expected, that's a bullshit answer. I also get 5% back on Amazon purchases through Amazon, but not as a minimum across all purchases. I have cards that are better than Amazon for standard purchases so I use that card for those purchases and I use my Amazon card when its narrow field of 5% back works in my favor. I buy my Macs from Apple because I get a 3% back AFTER my education discount. Again, what cards offer you better than 2% back as a minimum on Apple Pay-based purchases. I see zero and you have yet to prove that you have one, much less than one even exists.

    2) It's fine if the benefits of a card don't appeal to your particular needs, but you're claiming that there are no benefits that would make people want to also have this card when there are clearly many advantages that will appeal to thousands if not millions of people.
    edited April 11
Sign In or Register to comment.