As an indirect response to another question regarding a previous post of mine: My invitation is to all TREG (with a couple of minor exceptions, they know who they are) to do much as they have done here. come say their piece, spread the word.
Yes, that would include a person who was banned the very first day they posted two consecutive posts which were in direct response to posts made about him - and the excuse was the responses were "off topic". Which is weird since the people who made the person (that would be me) the topic were NOT banned.
And there are plenty of other Treg members who have been attacked there. As well as people just trying to get chosen for Treg.
After we get past the long-promised Android version of the mobile app (necessary for firmware updates as well as any customization functionality) that has not even begun development.
"Why, after four years of being 'for sale', has this product still not shipped? Could it really true that it's simply because it's not perfect yet?"
I think a careful reading of the WayTools patent portfolio and certain Apple patents (announced after TextBlade went on-sale) relating to touch sensors and keyboards with special attention to the relative *dates* on those patents is instructive and enlightening.
The original TREG ... alludes to consenting to an ability to remotely disable TextBlades in the event of TREG user non-compliance. That would be very useful in mitigating any damages claimed in a patent infringment case
But maybe it's just not available because it's not perfect yet. That's the offical story.
It seems like a great device. But it has no value to me personally unless it can be fully functional without an iPhone.
In paragraph order:
1. How do you know it hasn't begun?
2. WT has specifically said they aren't trying to make it perfect. Now, whether it is good enough or not, we don't know. But it also isn't our call to make. It is also possible the old version is ready, but since unexpected problems came up when Treg started, they want the new, less memory demanding version, available so they can handle any such problems easier and faster. So, lots of possibilities.
3. The trouble with the whole patent argument is no one has ever shown where the infringement is. It all seems to come down to seeing the word "touch" in both patents and declaring that means they infringed. But there are many devices, from many different companies, that use touch. That simply doesn't mean there is infringement. But if you have something more specific, I'd be interested in seeing what it is.
4. How? If the TB infringes, how would disabling a tester's device change anything? What it DOES do is allow WT to deal with people who violate the NDA, and they should.
5. Assuming you are still referring to Android app, the official story is that it would come 2-3 months after GR. That may, of course, change since there have been other delays - so possibly people who would be assigned to that task but are not involved with whatever they are focused on before GR could go ahead and be doing a lot of work on it. No one outside WT knows. The present app isn't done yet so there is nothing about the Android app that is different from what they've always said.
6. You may not want it if you can't do all the extra things it allows people with the app can do, but in normal keyboard usage situations, it would be fully functional. You'd lose some extra bonus stuff - like multi-map, boundaries, some filters. Certainly things I'm glad I have, but it would be a great keyboard anyway. I'd just have to do more adjusting on my end - like I have to do with every other keyboard.
Yes, the test units no doubt work when connected to Android devices as generic BT keyboards. But my understanding is still that no customization or firmware updating can be done without an iPhone.
That, for now, is the case. But it still wouldn't mean it is just a generic keyboard. A few highlights any can benefit from:
1. Great typing feel.
2. Far less risk of RSI. I don't know if it can avoid it for everyone, but I don't recall hearing any tester saying they have developed it or that it has gotten worse with the TB. I have seen a number of them say it is much improved or gone altogether since using the TB.
3. You still have the default advantages with the edit layer, numpad layer, etc, etc, etc. You just can't customize them.
I'd say the biggest limit may be if you can't change the basic layout - that is, switch to any of their default layouts (qwerty, dvorak, colemak, etc) without the app. But then, they did say something about contacting customers before shipping to confirm some things, including the layout the physical keys show. So that may include them shipping it with the internal layout already set. But that's just a possibility.
That's good to know. Odd question:Do you take sugar in your coffee? It's just that can make the whole cleaning process a bit of a chore. If the unit can recover from that relatively quickly that would be a bonus.
Sugar, no but full cream milk, yes. I got on to it immediately, which helped. Much easier to clean the coffee off TextBlade than everything else it landed on. No specialist tools required.
Count me among the masses of waytools forum users who were banned for mild criticism and then permanently shadow banned when the original ban expired. I am unable to post there, I have a status of new user or something like that. I have emailed waytools on and off several times a year and never received a single reply. I paid for my Textblades in April 2015. The company has strung me along, along with who knows how many others who paid up front, with the promise of an early adopter gift and an imminent release date, always just weeks, then months, then seasons away. The waytools rep posting here sounds exactly like the crazy person who posts on the waytools forum - also talking complete nonsense or attacking critics rather than addressing the core issue that they have not shipped their product. I have no idea why they won't ship it. All of their alleged testers claim it works fine. Either the testers are all just fake accounts and shills promoting a product that will never actually be manufactured and shipped, or the people who run the company are just crazy. Appleinsider says they saw pallets of Textblades? Interesting. Did they actually look in the boxes? Did they randomly sample a few and see if they work? This feels just like the Macrumors article that was 4??? years ago (so long ago its unbelievable) where a puff piece was written about how great it is, but no serious inquiries were made, no serious research done on the problems of the company. My problem with waytools is simply that they are demanding to hold my money forever in order to stay in line for an order I placed years ago. If they gave me a refund and said I'm still in the same position to get the keyboard if it ever ships, then I would just forget about it until it showed up in the mailbox, but I have left my money with them because they string me along with endless delays and the threat of going to the back of the line if I bail out, and its not much money so I just wait. But I don't think they and others here who shill for them should get away with such propaganda and lies - Colin and Kahuna. Meanwhile they claim to be giving textblades to hundreds of other people who ordered much later? So dishonest. They are fundamentally dishonest and unethical and holding people's money while they lie to their customers on a daily weekly monthly quarterly basis about when the product will actually truly ship. Very bad company and very unprofessional - borderline disturbing- people in their customer service. It's a cool product theoretically, hope its real, hope it ships, but there is no evidence whatsoever that it will happen. All evidence is that it will never ship and anyone who bothered to wait is either waiting for nothing and should take a refund or will get screwed when the company goes belly up. Waytools can talk all the trash to people they want here but the one thing they cannot do is ship the product people paid for on the date they promised. They have lied so many times its just a total joke at this point.
release date, always just weeks, then months, then seasons away.
The waytools rep posting here sounds exactly like the crazy person who posts on the waytools forum - also talking complete nonsense or attacking critics rather than addressing the core issue that they have not shipped their product. I have no idea why they won't ship it.
All of their alleged testers claim it works fine. Either the testers are all just fake accounts and shills promoting a product that will never actually be manufactured and shipped, or the people who run the company are just crazy.
This feels just like the Macrumors article that was 4??? years ago (so long ago its unbelievable) where a puff piece was written about how great it is, but no serious inquiries were made, no serious research done on the problems of the company.
But I don't think they and others here who shill for them should get away with such propaganda and lies - Colin and Kahuna.
Meanwhile they claim to be giving textblades to hundreds of other people who ordered much later? So dishonest.
the one thing they cannot do is ship the product people paid for on the date they promised.
Oh-boy, here we go again, in paragraph order:
1. A minor point, but while they did start with monthly estimates and later switched to seasonal, I will point out that a lot of critics complained about the monthly ones and said they should be quarterly.
2. I don't see how you can say you have no idea why it isn't shipping. In spite of the lack of better communication, the basics have been clear for some time. I'm not going to, yet again, go over the reasons they have posted, so I'll just jump to the present main reason (at least part of it - maybe all of it, but that hasn't been made clear). They need to rewrite code to free up space for fixing problems new customers turn up. Also to make room for future improvements, but it is the first that needs to be done before shipping. You may not like the reason. You may assume this isn't important enough to delay. But what you can't legitimately say is that no reasons are known.
3. No, we have not just said it works fine. One of the common, repeated errors I see are people who say things like that. Somehow they miss the issues that have also been brought up which are often included with the praise. In any case, even if it does work fine, even to WT's standard, see item 2. Nor are we fake posters or shills. Which is another common thing many critics do - demonize anyone who says things they don't like instead of listening and discussion things with them. After all, while it may make you angry, they do have actual experience with it.
4. Don't know which MR article you are referring to, but I'll point out that in the second one, the author got unfairly criticized for putting out a puff piece instead of talking about the delays. Only problem was, she started the article talking about the delays and ended it that way as well - in other words, she put those negative things in the most important parts of the article. So the critics were out of line.
5. Back to calling people shills and dishonest again - and specifically including me. Hmmm, well, tell you what, you tell me exactly what I've said about the TB or the company that was false. I'll be waiting.
6. What is dishonest about not taking customers who will help with testing based on the date they ordered? They said from the start they would only be taking people who had orders in for at least 6 months. They never said - and shouldn't do it anyway - that they would take them by order date. They only something in the hundreds - they sold many thousands in the first two days! While they want some randomness in the testers, they are also looking for some specific things. Not just 100% random!
7. That would be the dates they estimated, not promised. I'm well aware that isn't going to make you feel good about the delays. It doesn't make me happy either. But no need to overstate the criticism.
The above post 165 decries trash talk, ironically by piling on heaping doses of it.
Any person who actually believed what was posted above, would have simply gotten a refund.
Why would anyone keep any order with such mistrust? The contradiction is so extreme as to be non-credible.
No one controls our personal choices, but each of us.
No company controls it, and neither do trolls control it.
Each of us decides for ourself whatever we want, based on the merits we see.
The macrumors articles, AppleInsider article, and customer reviews all echo the same observations about the product, because they are true.
You are fundamentally incapable of normal or professional communication with your own customers. I'll address the only point that matters:
>Any person who actually believed what was posted above, would have simply gotten a refund.
That statement proves how stupid and incapable of understanding your customers you actually are. You are very disconnected from other human beings somehow, aren't you? Any person who was enthusiastic about a product and willing to wait a while would simply do so. Which I did. Which many did. Which we all did. And we all collectively and individually relied on your many assurances of next week, almost done! next month, ready to ship! next summer it will be finished! And with each broken promise and each outright lie, we became more invested in waiting, simply by virtue of the amount of time we had already waited for the product plus the money already paid, and so the balancing act of deciding to bail out vs waiting a bit longer to see if the next deadline was truth or another lie becomes harder.
There's a term you may know - "gaslighting". It's effective on people. It's what you do to people. You tell people things that are totally false, which you know are totally false, and then you blatantly deny your falsehoods despite evidence right there in front of everyones faces. When somebody promises you a so called gift, and promises you next week/month/season the product will surely be in your hands, a reasonable person takes those assurances in good faith - good faith! A concept I do not believe you are acquainted with! A person assumes the best intentions of the gaslighting liar. Conversely, when somebody lies to you repeatedly, as you have, and tells you that if you bail out, you will go to the back of the line despite having already invested your money and all the time you already waited - that creates a conflict that cuts both ways. It angers people (as should be quite evident to you), and it motivates people to wait a little longer - because the longer we waited, the less there is to lose, and because the liar keeps making promises, and decent people assume the best intentions of other people, even when they repeatedly disappoint.
Look, you have lied and lied and lied and lied again, and long ago I gave up that I would ever actually receive the products I paid for, but since there may always be some little bit of hope as long as you are still issuing refunds to others, and the few hundred I gave you is a distant memory anyway, there's no substantial downside to waiting longer. If I hear any rumblings that you really are on the way out to bankruptcy, I'll make a move and try to get my money back. But until then, I'll continue to wait.
When I see a forum such as this where your company and product are being discussed, I will tell it like it is - from my totally valid perspective. I'm a real person, a real customer. I paid you my real, hard earned money, and you owe me a product which you refuse to ship. You owe me a 'free gift' which you promised many many deadlines ago I would receive for my early adoption of your product. Your reasons for not shipping are lies. Your reasons for not being ready to ship four years ago are distant ancient BS.
I will tell the world what you are until the day you send me my products: you are a pathological liar. If you go bankrupt and I lose my money - that was my risk, my principles, waiting you out to see if you would ever keep your word. If you ship the product to me, I'll use it, and I will talk to people about it, and I will say nice things about it if its as good as alleged TREG testers claim it to be, but I will also always tell people to be wary of such an unethical and deceptive company who lied and lied and lied. You cannot undo that part of your story Waytools. The history of your company will always be what you have made it - this ridiculous series of endless lies about when you would ship your product.
No matter what drivel you spew here in defense of yourself, you cannot escape one central fact: you lied about the product being ready years ago, and you have not shipped the product to people who paid you their hard earned money. The promised 'gift' - whatever it is - might have been a nice gesture for a product that was a few weeks or even a few months late, but it cannot possibly compensate for repeated lies and four years ---- seriously! FOUR YEARS!!!! ---- of delays delays lies delays and lies and more delays.
All the time you spend here arguing - it becomes so obvious to any objective observer why you haven't shipped your product. Youre an insane person bickering with people whom youve lied to and made angry at you. You think its important to defend yourself rather than keep your word. Why dont you shut your lying mouth and get to work and get the stupid keyboard finished instead of defending yourself against the fact that you have not delivered the product?
I was banned and permanently shadow banned from your forum long ago for speaking much less truth than I am speaking here, but if the admin of this board has any concerns or doubts or considers it slanderous to call this WayTools_Support character a liar, I would be happy to post countless links and excerpts of statements that are demonstrably false to support every assertion that my opinions and points of view are legitimate and valid and just and fair game in the court of public opinion and public discourse. Waytools took my money and told me a product was ready. They lied to me and never shipped my product. Facts!
Last point, because I know I will be accused by the paranoid and pathological Waytools 'support' person and his alter egos Kahuna and Colin: I have never spoken ill of your alleged product or said anything to suggest that the product itself would not be great and worthy of purchase. Its a nice product if its real. If you had given me the keyboards I paid for years ago, by now I'm sure I would have worn them down to nothing and bought more. You are a crazy person the way you try to cast yourself as having the upper hand in the ethics of this debate: your logic is - I am righteous because I want to make the best most perfect product for my customers, and therefore I will never give my customers the product they paid for. You are insane! I don't speak against your products or your efforts to innovate or make good products. I only speak ill of your insanity and total lack of ethics and your lies and gaslighting and your extremely poor judgement and your inability to deal ethically and professionally with people and customers.
When somebody promises you a so called gift, and promises you next week/month/season the product will surely be in your hands
Well, the gift isn't going to happen until GR, so that one isn't even an issue yet. But, as I already told you, they made estimates, not promises and certainly never said anything like "it will surely be in your hands" by some date. I see no sense in taking what could be a legitimate complaint about them being wrong so many times, but then make untrue statements yourself.
it motivates people to wait a little longer - because the longer we waited, the less there is to lose
Uh, it seems to me that you have EXACTLY the same thing to lose. Could argue it is more, but "less"? If they don't ship, you lost exactly the same amount of money. As shipping is delayed more and more times, you are likely to run into situations which would be avoided if they shipped earlier (like needing a keyboard NOW so you buy that and then you later get the TB - meaning you had to spend extra money). So, the same or more from what I can see.
Your reasons for not shipping are lies.
Aside from just being mad that it hasn't shipped yet, exactly how do you know they are lies? I guess you could assume every Treg tester who posted that the units first sent for TREG definitely were not ready for GR is also lying. Basically take the position that you know all truth thus anyone who disagrees, even if they actually have experience with the product, is a liar by not agreeing with you. Not a real good approach, but you can do it.
Furthermore, there has to be a reason they aren't shipping - it sure wouldn't be because they don't want to! There is no advantage but lots of serious negatives to not ship if they thought it was ready! They've given reasons, but you say they are lies. Well, then perhaps you can tell us why they aren't shipping.
you lied about the product being ready years ago
Well, they thought it was ready by the end of March 2016 and thought a couple good testing weeks with Treg would confirm it. The only thing it showed was that there were many problems they didn't catch with their own testing. To many on the outside, this seems unlikely. But to those of us using it, and seeing first hand how hard it was to deal with so many different ways people type (even if you only count touch typists), we soon realized it wasn't surprising at all. It's just that complicated when you have 3-6 main characters on each keycap. No one else ever did this, thus the problems are NEW - and thus much harder to have predicted while it was passing the usage tests of their own people. But being wrong isn't a lie. Not even being wrong a lot.
I'll say it again. Maybe they should ship. But that doesn't mean much since it would only be opinion, even for a tregger, since I don't know what all the data is.
Kahuna, I have no interest in replying to all your talk. Waytools is calling people who were their customers 'trolls' right here in this thread. They are insulting people who generously and happily gave them money for their product. Everybody wanted to love them at the outset until they proved to be scammers and liars. If you believe anything Waytools says, then you agree they took money from thousands of people in exchange for a product, and promised them all an additional 'gift', and have absolutely no shame about never delivering any of it. Then they have the gall to come here and whine and bicker and insult people while trying to defend themselves? They have no honor and no ethics. You defend this behavior why exactly? Clearly you are on somebodys payroll.
No one should do business with this company unless they fulfill obligations to all prior customers first. The appleinsider article made the same point and I am emphasizing it as a paying customer who gave them my money 4 years ago. If Waytools doesnt like the angry opinions of the customers they lied to - thats too bad. They can censor their forum but they cant shut the rest of the internet down, as much as they might like to. They should refund everyone who already paid and promise to ship to them in order when its ready to ship. That is the only ethical and acceptable action. If they are self funded then they have absolutely no reason to hang on to the money of textblade customers who waited this long. I refuse to surrender to their BS terms. If they want to refund me with no further complaints - they owe me principle + interest + the 'gift' or its cash value equivalent which was promised repeatedly on many a date certain many years ago.
Yes, that would include a person who was banned the very first day they posted two consecutive posts which were in direct response to posts made about him - and the excuse was the responses were "off topic". Which is weird since the people who made the person (that would be me) the topic were NOT banned.
I think any chance of your account being unbanned died when Reddit Admins permanently suspended the sock puppets you had been using to circumvent the first ban. IT's a Reddit TOS violation and out of my hands.
And there are plenty of other Treg members who have been attacked there.
We have TREG member occasionally posting even now. The common thread for criticism seems to be those members of WTF that throw other customers under the bus, bare in mind that their first port of call post bus shove is often r/Textblade and that screaming 'burn the witch' is a positive conduct mark on WTF. You can see from the conduct of official accounts what their attitude is.
As well as people just trying to get chosen for Treg.
As I said we can all see a 'face turn' coming, and quite frankly it is a source of some amusement on r/textblade when someone crosses the isle, get into TREG posts their "i've got one" thread and disappears. But it's nice when they filter of to other forums to spread the love as it were.
Let me know when that stops.
As you are there every day reading the posted comments often PM'ing r/textblade members even now years after your ban, I wonder why anyone would need to aprrise of anything happening there? In any case it would not matter what happens from here on out you will just have to put your r/textblade ban, with your 2 or so permanent Reddit account suspensions on the same shelf as your MarRumors permanent account suspension.
Now I have been actively ignoring you for what? A year despite you constant barrage of PM's and will continue to do so, because as with all internet Trolls you get worse when you get fed.
WayTools_Support how many estimated deadlines for general release have been made and broken? How many of those where extended right in the last week, or after expiry? It may be a defence that you genuinely believed that you would meet those deadlines, in which case you were stringing yourselves along with us. The Textblade is more than for years late, what makes for example your current shipping window "summer" (i'm assuming 2019 here please correct if that's wrong) any different from the many that have passed before it?
Any person who actually believed what was posted above, would have simply gotten a refund.
Well that has to be an opinion. A disparaging one. Of a customer/Ex customer who is looking for answers. In a public forum.
Why would anyone keep any order with such mistrust? The contradiction is so extreme as to be non-credible.
Why would they not? People know that Facebook is harvesting their data and selling it so they can be manipulated into buying things. Facebook still has user accounts. Are you saying that millions of Facebook users as being extremely contradicted and non-credible?
Why would anyone feel need to paint their disgruntled customers as "extremely contradicted" and "non-credible"?
No one controls our personal choices, but each of us.
No disagreement there. Of course that include your personal choices on setting deadlines, communication and stopping general release of your product.
No company controls it,
*cough* Oh I see you can choose to do business with company and they can choose not to send you a product, but that didn't affect your ability to choose. But then if you still choose to do business with a company that chooses not to send you a product and you are in any way unhappy about it you are, let me see if I have this correctly, maintaining a contradiction so extreme as to be non-credible.
and neither do trolls control it.
Soooooooo...... you are saying the people you call trolls have no control over peoples decisions. Then why all the hate and vitriol? surely one can maintain the contradiction that they both matter enough to point out a angrily decry as agenda driven to push your customers away and then say they have no control over personal choice. The contradiction is so extreme as to be non-credible.
Each of us decides for ourself whatever we want, based on the merits we see.
So mistrusting a company but seeing merit in the product and making a decision to keep your order is okay? I wish to would make up your mind.
The macrumors articles, AppleInsider article, and customer reviews all echo the same observations about the product, because they are true.
Is the product finished?
finished /ˈfɪnɪʃt/ adjective adjective: finished 1. (of a task or activity) brought to an end; completed. "a preparatory drawing for the finished painting" (of a person) no longer useful or valued; ruined. "he was told he was finished at the club" 2. (of a person's work) expert or accomplished. "his highly finished craftsmanship"
verb
past tense: finished; past participle: finished
1.
bring (a task or activity) to an end; complete.
"they were straining to finish the job"
synonyms:
complete, end, conclude, close, bring to a conclusion, bring to an end, bring to a close, consummate, finalize, bring to fruition; More
antonyms:
start, leave unfinished, unfinished, incomplete
consume or get through the final amount or portion of (something, especially food or drink).
end, come to an end, stop, conclude, come to a conclusion/end/close, cease, terminate;
informalwind up
"when the programme has finished it displays the ‘Press any key’ message"
antonyms:
start, begin
end a period of time or course of action by doing something or being in a particular position.
"he finished up as one of Britain's greatest architects"
reach the end of a race or other competition.
"the first four horses to finish"
BRITISH
(in soccer) score a goal or goals.
"Dean finished well to put his team ahead"
kill, destroy, or comprehensively defeat.
"the English men-at-arms finished them off in hand-to-hand combat"
synonyms:
kill, cause the death of, take/end the life of, destroy, execute, annihilate, exterminate, liquidate, put an end to, do away with, dispose of, get rid of, eradicate, deliver the coup de grâce to; More
reduce to utter exhaustion or helplessness.
2.
complete the manufacture or decoration of (an article) by giving it an attractive surface appearance.
"the interior was finished with American oak"
synonyms:
varnish, lacquer, veneer, coat, stain, wax, shellac, enamel, put a finish on, glaze, give a shine to, gloss, polish, burnish, smooth off
"some items were finished in a black lacquer"
complete the fattening of (livestock) before slaughter.
"over 100,000 head of cattle are finished every year"
3.
DATED
prepare (a girl) for entry into fashionable society.
Because they said they wouldn't start on it until after they shipped GA, then claimed that it would take " a couple of months" to write; a claim that strains credulity.
You're seriously talking from the POV of "You can't prove they haven't started it."
1. A minor point, but while they did start with monthly estimates and later switched to seasonal, I will point out that a lot of critics complained about the monthly ones and said they should be quarterly.
3. No, we have not just said it works fine. One of the common, repeated errors I see are people who say things like that. Somehow they miss the issues that have also been brought up which are often included with the praise. In any case, even if it does work fine, even to WT's standard, see item 2. Nor are we fake posters or shills. Which is another common thing many critics do - demonize anyone who says things they don't like instead of listening and discussion things with them. After all, while it may make you angry, they do have actual experience with it.
6. What is dishonest about not taking customers who will help with testing based on the date they ordered? They said from the start they would only be taking people who had orders in for at least 6 months. They never said - and shouldn't do it anyway - that they would take them by order date. They only something in the hundreds - they sold many thousands in the first two days! While they want some randomness in the testers, they are also looking for some specific things. Not just 100% random!
1. Since we are focusing on minor points: Actually, it started with one, two, and 3 week bumps in estimated ship dates. Then they switched to monthly, then quarterly, then, arbitrarily, seasonal. Quite a strange pattern when you consider that engineering estimates should get more accurate as a project nears completion.
3. What you say is true. Problems were reported by testers, though, apparently not serious enough sour their opinion of the product. I'm not sure why Waytools didn't allow for any serious problems when they estimated shipping, but there were plenty of problems. A far more interesting question is what problems remain today. Since this is a review and you are a tester, please describe any serious functional problems which remain in the current firmware version.
6. I do believe there is something disingenuous in constructing an order page which clearly states that units would be shipped in the order they are placed and then, after creating a new class of customers to perform testing, claiming on blog posts and the order status page that "TextBlades Have Shipped!". And, they did not say anything about selecting customers for a test program in the first year or so of orders. It would be easy to overlook this inconsistency of messaging if the test period was limited to a few weeks as they initially stated. But poorly written firmware and a pursuit of perfection has resulted in this new class of customers being able to enjoy their keyboards for years while customers who ordered earlier feel quite cheated. Having good reasons to break a promise does not make the promise any less broken.
Speaking of disingenuous. It is true that some frustrated customers have become angry enough to resort to inflammatory posts and sometimes even personal attacks. When this is repeated, blocking the worst offenders to maintain a civil discussion is reasonable. But, many people who tend to more reasoned questions and quite justified complaints have also been banned from the forums. To make matters worse, Waytools refuses to answer public and private questions about what guidelines were broken or even acknowledge that they silently kick critical voices out of the forum. In my case they calmly responded in public without even suggesting my questions were unreasonable and at the same time, secretly banned me from further discussion. I don't believe this is the best way to treat paying customers. It seems unfair to hold angry customers responsible for they way they express their feelings without holding Waytools responsible for the disingenuous behavior which caused some of the anger.
Kahuna, I have no interest in replying to all your talk. Waytools is calling people who were their customers 'trolls' right here in this thread. They are insulting people who generously and happily gave them money for their product. Everybody wanted to love them at the outset until they proved to be scammers and liars. If you believe anything Waytools says, then you agree they took money from thousands of people in exchange for a product, and promised them all an additional 'gift', and have absolutely no shame about never delivering any of it. Then they have the gall to come here and whine and bicker and insult people while trying to defend themselves? They have no honor and no ethics. You defend this behavior why exactly? Clearly you are on somebodys payroll.
No one should do business with this company unless they fulfill obligations to all prior customers first. The appleinsider article made the same point and I am emphasizing it as a paying customer who gave them my money 4 years ago. If Waytools doesnt like the angry opinions of the customers they lied to - thats too bad. They can censor their forum but they cant shut the rest of the internet down, as much as they might like to. They should refund everyone who already paid and promise to ship to them in order when its ready to ship. That is the only ethical and acceptable action. If they are self funded then they have absolutely no reason to hang on to the money of textblade customers who waited this long. I refuse to surrender to their BS terms. If they want to refund me with no further complaints - they owe me principle + interest + the 'gift' or its cash value equivalent which was promised repeatedly on many a date certain many years ago.
Not sure how to repay 'principle' but I'd gladly contribute to paying you interest for four years, at my bank account interest rate of .01%, which is ~4 cents, if it makes you feel better. It will have to be through paypal, etc. as you are not worth a 50 cent stamp. You don't get an early adopter gift if you cancel, that's the deal, take it or leave it.
Letting the company keep your money is moral acquiescence, a kind of approval for their behavior. By letting them keep your money you are approving of the whole history of the company's behavior. No wonder they think nothing of continuing the same behavior: they have the support of all those people in the form of all that money saying "that's okay, we forgive you." There are many contexts in which that kind of forgiveness would be considered enabling or even toxic.
Not sure how to repay 'principle' but I'd gladly contribute to paying you interest for four years, at my bank account interest rate of .01%, which is ~4 cents, if it makes you feel better. It will have to be through paypal, etc. as you are not worth a 50 cent stamp. You don't get an early adopter gift if you cancel, that's the deal, take it or leave it.
This might be off topic. But, since you are obviously computer literate, you might want to check out some of the Internet banks. You can currently get over 2.5% and I believe you could have averaged almost 2% over the past 4 years for checking or savings, FDIC insured with no minimum balance and no fees. Since it turned into a long term investment, a CD would be even better. So, I think $8 might be more fair, though, I'm not sure why *you* would be paying unless you represent Waytools. (Sorry, I couldn't help myself, I'm just kidding, of course)
Kahuna, I have no interest in replying to all your talk.
Yet you just did.
You
defend this behavior why exactly? Clearly you are on somebodys payroll.
I've been very clear about what I defend and what I don't - which usually means critics claim I ONLY defend. Which, of course, would be a lie. Maybe even "trollish". Just as claiming I'm on somebody's payroll - clearly an insinuation that it is WayTools - also is entirely made up.
They should refund everyone who already paid and promise to
ship to them in order when its ready to ship.
Nope. Because as some critics have complained about, doing so can cause a loss of value because of exchange rates. But now it is reversed - they should do it to everyone. Contradictory.
I think any chance of your account being unbanned died when Reddit Admins permanently suspended the sock puppets you had been using to circumvent the first ban. IT's a Reddit TOS violation and out of my hands.
Now I have been actively ignoring you for what? A year despite you constant barrage of PM's and will continue to do so, because as with all internet Trolls you get worse when you get fed.
1. As usual, you keep skipping what started the whole thing, which was people on you subreddit talking about and impersonating me. I was banned simply for responding.
2. Likewise, you also like to complain about me sending you private messages. Why did you leave out the part that I told you I ONLY do so when you talk about me on that subreddit publicly? You don't want private messages, don't talk about me publicly. Simple.
We have TREG member occasionally posting even now.
Yep. Pretty rare event and tends not to last long.
The common thread for criticism seems to be those members of WTF that throw other customers under the bus
What forum members have thrown "other customers" under the bus? And how did they do it.
As I said we can all see a 'face turn' coming, and quite frankly it is a source of some amusement on r/textblade when someone crosses the isle, get into TREG posts their "i've got one" thread and disappears.
You just confirmed what I said you do in the first 11 words.
But let's look at the rest of that statement. First, you don't know that they disappear other than whether they are posting on the WayTools forum. Some post on Slack. Some don't - but even those may be actively doing the job of reporting their experiences to WayTools.
But here's my favorite point on this - lots of critics have complained when Treg testers make reports on the forum. I mean, they act like they are being insulted just because someone says good things about their experience! Really is quite stunning. But it does lead to one thing in at least some cases - some testers just decide to avoid the hassling and limit themselves to Slack or WayTools. Which ought to make the critics happy, based on their prior complaints about those posts.
Now, personally, I think they should post anyway. After all, they were lucky to get chosen so just ignore the flack and give information for those who were not as fortunate. But that's just my opinion.
Comments
And there are plenty of other Treg members who have been attacked there. As well as people just trying to get chosen for Treg.
Let me know when that stops.
2. WT has specifically said they aren't trying to make it perfect. Now, whether it is good enough or not, we don't know. But it also isn't our call to make. It is also possible the old version is ready, but since unexpected problems came up when Treg started, they want the new, less memory demanding version, available so they can handle any such problems easier and faster. So, lots of possibilities.
3. The trouble with the whole patent argument is no one has ever shown where the infringement is. It all seems to come down to seeing the word "touch" in both patents and declaring that means they infringed. But there are many devices, from many different companies, that use touch. That simply doesn't mean there is infringement. But if you have something more specific, I'd be interested in seeing what it is.
4. How? If the TB infringes, how would disabling a tester's device change anything? What it DOES do is allow WT to deal with people who violate the NDA, and they should.
1. Great typing feel.
I'd say the biggest limit may be if you can't change the basic layout - that is, switch to any of their default layouts (qwerty, dvorak, colemak, etc) without the app. But then, they did say something about contacting customers before shipping to confirm some things, including the layout the physical keys show. So that may include them shipping it with the internal layout already set. But that's just a possibility.
I got on to it immediately, which helped. Much easier to clean the coffee off TextBlade than everything else it landed on.
No specialist tools required.
5. Back to calling people shills and dishonest again - and specifically including me. Hmmm, well, tell you what, you tell me exactly what I've said about the TB or the company that was false. I'll be waiting.
7. That would be the dates they estimated, not promised. I'm well aware that isn't going to make you feel good about the delays. It doesn't make me happy either. But no need to overstate the criticism.
Any person who actually believed what was posted above, would have simply gotten a refund.
Why would anyone keep any order with such mistrust? The contradiction is so extreme as to be non-credible.
No one controls our personal choices, but each of us.
No company controls it, and neither do trolls control it.
Each of us decides for ourself whatever we want, based on the merits we see.
The macrumors articles, AppleInsider article, and customer reviews all echo the same observations about the product, because they are true.
>Any person who actually believed what was posted above, would have simply gotten a refund.
That statement proves how stupid and incapable of understanding your customers you actually are. You are very disconnected from other human beings somehow, aren't you? Any person who was enthusiastic about a product and willing to wait a while would simply do so. Which I did. Which many did. Which we all did. And we all collectively and individually relied on your many assurances of next week, almost done! next month, ready to ship! next summer it will be finished! And with each broken promise and each outright lie, we became more invested in waiting, simply by virtue of the amount of time we had already waited for the product plus the money already paid, and so the balancing act of deciding to bail out vs waiting a bit longer to see if the next deadline was truth or another lie becomes harder.
There's a term you may know - "gaslighting". It's effective on people. It's what you do to people. You tell people things that are totally false, which you know are totally false, and then you blatantly deny your falsehoods despite evidence right there in front of everyones faces. When somebody promises you a so called gift, and promises you next week/month/season the product will surely be in your hands, a reasonable person takes those assurances in good faith - good faith! A concept I do not believe you are acquainted with! A person assumes the best intentions of the gaslighting liar. Conversely, when somebody lies to you repeatedly, as you have, and tells you that if you bail out, you will go to the back of the line despite having already invested your money and all the time you already waited - that creates a conflict that cuts both ways. It angers people (as should be quite evident to you), and it motivates people to wait a little longer - because the longer we waited, the less there is to lose, and because the liar keeps making promises, and decent people assume the best intentions of other people, even when they repeatedly disappoint.
Look, you have lied and lied and lied and lied again, and long ago I gave up that I would ever actually receive the products I paid for, but since there may always be some little bit of hope as long as you are still issuing refunds to others, and the few hundred I gave you is a distant memory anyway, there's no substantial downside to waiting longer. If I hear any rumblings that you really are on the way out to bankruptcy, I'll make a move and try to get my money back. But until then, I'll continue to wait.
When I see a forum such as this where your company and product are being discussed, I will tell it like it is - from my totally valid perspective. I'm a real person, a real customer. I paid you my real, hard earned money, and you owe me a product which you refuse to ship. You owe me a 'free gift' which you promised many many deadlines ago I would receive for my early adoption of your product. Your reasons for not shipping are lies. Your reasons for not being ready to ship four years ago are distant ancient BS.
I will tell the world what you are until the day you send me my products: you are a pathological liar. If you go bankrupt and I lose my money - that was my risk, my principles, waiting you out to see if you would ever keep your word. If you ship the product to me, I'll use it, and I will talk to people about it, and I will say nice things about it if its as good as alleged TREG testers claim it to be, but I will also always tell people to be wary of such an unethical and deceptive company who lied and lied and lied. You cannot undo that part of your story Waytools. The history of your company will always be what you have made it - this ridiculous series of endless lies about when you would ship your product.
No matter what drivel you spew here in defense of yourself, you cannot escape one central fact: you lied about the product being ready years ago, and you have not shipped the product to people who paid you their hard earned money. The promised 'gift' - whatever it is - might have been a nice gesture for a product that was a few weeks or even a few months late, but it cannot possibly compensate for repeated lies and four years ---- seriously! FOUR YEARS!!!! ---- of delays delays lies delays and lies and more delays.
All the time you spend here arguing - it becomes so obvious to any objective observer why you haven't shipped your product. Youre an insane person bickering with people whom youve lied to and made angry at you. You think its important to defend yourself rather than keep your word. Why dont you shut your lying mouth and get to work and get the stupid keyboard finished instead of defending yourself against the fact that you have not delivered the product?
I was banned and permanently shadow banned from your forum long ago for speaking much less truth than I am speaking here, but if the admin of this board has any concerns or doubts or considers it slanderous to call this WayTools_Support character a liar, I would be happy to post countless links and excerpts of statements that are demonstrably false to support every assertion that my opinions and points of view are legitimate and valid and just and fair game in the court of public opinion and public discourse. Waytools took my money and told me a product was ready. They lied to me and never shipped my product. Facts!
No one should do business with this company unless they fulfill obligations to all prior customers first. The appleinsider article made the same point and I am emphasizing it as a paying customer who gave them my money 4 years ago. If Waytools doesnt like the angry opinions of the customers they lied to - thats too bad. They can censor their forum but they cant shut the rest of the internet down, as much as they might like to. They should refund everyone who already paid and promise to ship to them in order when its ready to ship. That is the only ethical and acceptable action. If they are self funded then they have absolutely no reason to hang on to the money of textblade customers who waited this long. I refuse to surrender to their BS terms. If they want to refund me with no further complaints - they owe me principle + interest + the 'gift' or its cash value equivalent which was promised repeatedly on many a date certain many years ago.
I think any chance of your account being unbanned died when Reddit Admins permanently suspended the sock puppets you had been using to circumvent the first ban. IT's a Reddit TOS violation and out of my hands.
We have TREG member occasionally posting even now. The common thread for criticism seems to be those members of WTF that throw other customers under the bus, bare in mind that their first port of call post bus shove is often r/Textblade and that screaming 'burn the witch' is a positive conduct mark on WTF. You can see from the conduct of official accounts what their attitude is.
As I said we can all see a 'face turn' coming, and quite frankly it is a source of some amusement on r/textblade when someone crosses the isle, get into TREG posts their "i've got one" thread and disappears. But it's nice when they filter of to other forums to spread the love as it were.
As you are there every day reading the posted comments often PM'ing r/textblade members even now years after your ban, I wonder why anyone would need to aprrise of anything happening there? In any case it would not matter what happens from here on out you will just have to put your r/textblade ban, with your 2 or so permanent Reddit account suspensions on the same shelf as your MarRumors permanent account suspension.
Now I have been actively ignoring you for what? A year despite you constant barrage of PM's and will continue to do so, because as with all internet Trolls you get worse when you get fed.
R
WayTools_Support how many estimated deadlines for general release have been made and broken? How many of those where extended right in the last week, or after expiry? It may be a defence that you genuinely believed that you would meet those deadlines, in which case you were stringing yourselves along with us. The Textblade is more than for years late, what makes for example your current shipping window "summer" (i'm assuming 2019 here please correct if that's wrong) any different from the many that have passed before it?
Well that has to be an opinion. A disparaging one. Of a customer/Ex customer who is looking for answers. In a public forum.
Why would they not? People know that Facebook is harvesting their data and selling it so they can be manipulated into buying things. Facebook still has user accounts. Are you saying that millions of Facebook users as being extremely contradicted and non-credible?
Why would anyone feel need to paint their disgruntled customers as "extremely contradicted" and "non-credible"?
No disagreement there. Of course that include your personal choices on setting deadlines, communication and stopping general release of your product.
*cough* Oh I see you can choose to do business with company and they can choose not to send you a product, but that didn't affect your ability to choose. But then if you still choose to do business with a company that chooses not to send you a product and you are in any way unhappy about it you are, let me see if I have this correctly, maintaining a contradiction so extreme as to be non-credible.
Soooooooo...... you are saying the people you call trolls have no control over peoples decisions. Then why all the hate and vitriol? surely one can maintain the contradiction that they both matter enough to point out a angrily decry as agenda driven to push your customers away and then say they have no control over personal choice. The contradiction is so extreme as to be non-credible.
So mistrusting a company but seeing merit in the product and making a decision to keep your order is okay? I wish to would make up your mind.Is the product finished?
Just asking for a friend.
R
Edit: argh formatting
You're seriously talking from the POV of "You can't prove they haven't started it."
Don't ever change, Bob.
Yep. Pretty rare event and tends not to last long.
What forum members have thrown "other customers" under the bus? And how did they do it.
You just confirmed what I said you do in the first 11 words.
But let's look at the rest of that statement. First, you don't know that they disappear other than whether they are posting on the WayTools forum. Some post on Slack. Some don't - but even those may be actively doing the job of reporting their experiences to WayTools.