I’m posting this merely because, while definitely a side-issue, I think it instructive. Despite all the careful quotes above from the Oxford website, I was fairly certain that the usage of “fora” being claimed was incorrect, so I checked. Dabikahuna has misquoted above, likely intentionally: the original entry for “fora” (https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/fora) is actually:
When following the link you find that sense 3 is 3. (in an ancient Roman city) a public square or marketplace used for judicial and other business.
In other words, the use of “fora” in this context is incorrect, at least according to the Oxford English Dictionary used as a source to argue the opposite.
I'm sorry, but you are being way overly restrictive. Of course it refers to a public square or marketplace in an ancient Roman city - because it is a Latin word, originated in ancient Rome! But it isn't limited to Ancient Rome, obviously. It is still used because even away from ancient Rome, the basic concept remains - a public place for people to meet.
But, since you want to follow this, let's review what the original quote was and check some basic word meanings to clear this up:
"The plural of forum is spelled forums; the plural fora (as in the original Latin) is chiefly used when talking about a public square in an ancient Roman city." -- Oxford English dictionary.
Note I never said that wasn't true - though I never found that on their site, only referenced at other sites as being what they said. So I'm giving all benefit of any doubt.
So, now let's compare what that actually says to how Eric seems to think it says (based on his criticism of the use of "fora") instead. I'll highlight the key difference:
Original >the plural fora (as in the original Latin) is chiefly used when talking about a public square in an ancient Roman city
Required change based on the criticism: >the plural fora (as in the original Latin) is only used when talking about a public square in an ancient Roman city
I'm pretty sure that the folks at Oxford would have used "always" if that's what they meant. I mean, they are doing a dictionary!
Or you could change it to "always", etc, but the problem remains that those words are not even close to the word Oxford used. You could make substitutions that do fit, but they don't help you (words like "usually", or "most of the time", etc. But their actual word and all possible substitutes support me. Because I never said fora was the most common usage. I merely said it was also an accurate choice of words.
Some example sentences from dictionary sites showing how misuse of "chiefly" would screw things up if we treat "chiefly" the way Eric would be interpreting it in this case:
"An actor who is famous chiefly for her first two movies" would have to mean the same as, "An actor who is famous entirely for her first two movies."
Or, "The dish consisted chiefly of noodles" would mean, "The dish consisted of only noodles."
So, even if we limit ourselves to Oxford, the use of fora is fine. But Oxford isn't the only legitimate source and I gave some examples from others.
But as long as we're on the subject, it is worth also considering why a word which originally would only have the "fora" plural form got to be gradually more "forums". I don't think there is any real mystery to this one or others like it. English speakers who didn't know the rules for Latin simply anglicized it. I mean, it's not like we had this word and while everyone was using "fora", a group of people declared, "We are officially changing it to "forums"! That isn't how most language develops. It changes based on ordinary people using the word and, over time, if enough of them use it in a new way (or new spelling), eventually enough do it so when a new dictionary comes out, they eventually decide the new meaning or spelling is also acceptable. Sometimes an original meaning may completely be forgotten. Anyway, this pretty much means word changes come from people who don't know the proper spelling or meaning until there are so many misusing it that the "wrong" version becomes "right".
But that isn't the case here. In this case we have two completely legitimate spellings which co-exist. Just as I could write "color" or "colour". Both are correct.
Heck, look at all the different words just in the United States to describe a carbonated soft drink! Soda, pop, cola to name just some common ones.
Your arguments regarding the evolution of language are not invalid, but your interpretation of the definition you quoted from the OED is (sense 3, referenced by me in the previous post). Dictionaries have to impart a huge amount of information in relatively small space, and they have very explicit rules as to what certain things mean. If a definition references another definition, and uses the term (sense x) in brackets, it means that sense exclusively. That’s how it works: you can’t selectively pick and choose bits of a dictionary definition out of context. Well, you can (you have) but it doesn’t make you correct. Nevertheless, I’m not going to pursue this further as it’s clear that you’re not going to admit you might be wrong, and this is ultimately not what this thread is about.
Lawyers routinely use it, even though there are English equivalents.
The Latin construct of the tricolon remains a powerful form of statement.
From Obama’s eulogy for Mandela - And when the night grows dark, when injustice weighs heavy on our hearts, when our best-laid plans seem beyond our reach, let us think of Madiba and the words that brought him comfort within the four walls of his cell: “It matters not how strait the gate, how charged [with punishments] the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.”
The beauty of these latin original constructs is timeless.
You probably would not take issue with using ‘flora and fauna’.
You could instead say plants and animals, but flora and fauna retain their utility, and are less prosaic and more literary.
It would seem that goal here was to pedantically assert an error, rather than simply enjoy another valid way that may be a bit more artistic. Celebrating beauty is more fun.
Well, if accepting your order is ‘taking’ from you, then just take it back. You’re in charge there. But you can’t argue it both ways. You can’t make a free choice, and then claim someone forced it upon you. Refunds work 24X7.
The only one arguing 'both ways' is you. My individual order is not the point here. Each of your public replies illustrates your inability or unwillingness to salvage your ruined reputation, and that is my entire purpose in engaging with you. Cautioning people not to give your their money is what interests me. Shining light on the past 4 years of your blatant lies and gaslighting and ethical ineptitude is my purpose. Your behavior is so inappropriate! Only wanton criminals behave as you do, lying and bickering and sniping and insulting people to deflect attention from your own ill intentions and irresponsible behavior.
Appleinsiders article was cautionary, but it did not completely vet the situation and expose the full degree to which you have blatantly misled your customers. The article vaguely and inaccurately suggested that your so-called 'Tesla model' was some kind of plan from the outset, but that was not entirely accurate reporting. I would wager you fed them that phrase, 'Tesla model'. The truth is that you lied to people at the outset. You knew you did not have a working product, but the orders were not initially advertised as 'pre-orders'. You told people they would have the product on much more specific dates. The ship dates were not 'spring' or 'fall' or 2020 or whatever they have evolved into now. All of that vague nonsense erupted out of the daily gaslighting rituals you engaged in as part of your effort to extract more money from more people in exchange for a product you cannot and will not ever ship. That is what I believe, and my basis is 4 years of indisputable absolute failure on your part to deliver a finished working product to everyone who ordered it, myself included.
A reminder to anyone new to all of this - we are talking about a product advertised by waytools as ready to ship and orders placed for it in the year 2015!
Once again shut your bickering mouth and focus your addled brain on delivering the product you have failed to deliver for 4 years. Otherwise, give all the money back to all the people who paid you, and crawl back under whatever rock you came from. Choose an option. Do it now.
Certain posters here are remarkably well-versed in the act of gaslighting, ...
Hey guys, I offered an olive branch a while ago. I even congratulated you on your civility of your last few comments. Hope you take it. In the meantime, pls stay on the high road, don't go back into non useful exchanges like the long post referenced above. Let's focus on product / company QA if you will, deal ?
Ah yes. I remember you now! Has the Cosmo come out? I'm assuming you haven't tried it out?
This is the 3rd time I answer but they do not seem to get published. Cosmo has not come out yet (June 2019) but it seems will be plagued with the same SW weaknesses as the Gemini (buggy, and unstable Android Apps) and Linux more of a proof of concept with limited functionality despite a rd party developer and enthusiast has been maintaining Debian Linux running despite zero support for Planet Computers.
Edit: that is why I am now more patient with WT if they say they need to rework firmware for the GR masses. But this group that preordered years ago, and is active here, on WTF and reddit would be more than willing to get a unit with non ideal firmware now. SO that is why I urge them to ship to this group.
1) There was mention in your forums that yes, it will work on android devices, but the Textblade must be initiated by an iOS device? And that certain features of Textblade can only be configured with an iOS device?
2) For example, I have multiple devices -- both ios and android. So I don't mind having to have to initiate the Textblade once. But if I had to do that over and over, it would be quite annoying. And for people with only android devices, it would be a problem, unless they have a friend with an ios device.
3) Is that still true, or has that been fixed and updated?
4) How long after GR do you think android version will come out?
I ask this for a friend who still has an order for a Textblade, and he's not keen on iOS or Apple devices. Namely, would I need to help him out every time he boots up the Textblade, or can I do this just once and he'll be set? Same questions for the advanced features of the Textblade, such as accessing macros, different layers, etc.?
1) There was mention in your forums that yes, it will work on android devices, ...
I ask this for a friend who still has an order for a Textblade, and he's not keen on iOS or Apple devices. Namely, would I need to help him out every time he boots up the Textblade, or can I do this just once and he'll be set? Same questions for the advanced features of the Textblade, such as accessing macros, different layers, etc.?
Currently configuration and firmware updates require an iOS device. Once configured, an iOS device is not needed. All functionality, other than some diagnostics for troubleshooting, is available when used with Android, Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
Currently configuration and firmware updates require an iOS device. Once configured, an iOS device is not needed. All functionality, other than some diagnostics for troubleshooting, is available when used with Android, Windows, MacOS, and Linux.
Thanks Chris.
Can you tell me what the particular configuration is that requires iOS? Is it something crucial to the basic operation of Textblade or can my friend safely ignore it and just start using on his android device? I can help him out with the updates -- unless they're very frequent and mandatory to do.
Your arguments regarding the evolution of language are not invalid, but your interpretation of the definition you quoted from the OED is (sense 3, referenced by me in the previous post). Dictionaries have to impart a huge amount of information in relatively small space, and they have very explicit rules as to what certain things mean. If a definition references another definition, and uses the term (sense x) in brackets, it means that sense exclusively. That’s how it works: you can’t selectively pick and choose bits of a dictionary definition out of context. Well, you can (you have) but it doesn’t make you correct. Nevertheless, I’m not going to pursue this further as it’s clear that you’re not going to admit you might be wrong, and this is ultimately not what this thread is about.
So, tell us, what the dictionary rule is for them using the term "chiefly" as opposed to "always" or "only", etc.
Interestingly, as I mentioned before, there are also websites that give a breakdown of the usage of these two terms. Go back to 1800 and "forums" is extremely rare. I'm pretty sure this is long after the time of the ancient Romans! It wasn't until the 1930s that "forums" passed the use of fora. In Great Britain it was even later.
Okay, after just one more point. I think it is demonstrative of the problem with many posts attacking WT and has been from the beginning of their criticism in 2015. That being that they keep insisting on just one view. Thus, if I defend them against any made up or even demonstratively false attack, I get accused of "always" defending them. The critic often allow no alternative views as possibilities and will simply choose the alternative that is most bad for WT, even if that would logically be the least likely.
Same with the used of "fora". It is, as I have pointed out, a legitimate usage. I have also said that "forums" may be more common, but it still isn't exclusive.
You have also made an issue elsewhere that some people would be less likely to understand "fora" but all would understand "forums". It never should have been brought up in the first place, but if it was, it should have been limited to that single point. Instead, people went off the deep end insisting ONLY "forums" was a legitimate usage of the words according to some rules which really don't say what was claimed to say.
If people stopped going to such extremes, I wouldn't have as many things to challenge. Heck, even Rolanbek has been posting more reasonably here lately, and you know we don't get along. But I call them as I see them based on what is actually being said.
Can you tell me what the particular configuration is that requires iOS? Is it something crucial to the basic operation of Textblade or can my friend safely ignore it and just start using on his android device? I can help him out with the updates -- unless they're very frequent and mandatory to do.
Configuration includes things like setting the OS for each jump slot, customizing the key map for each jump slot, and setting any macros.
Certain posters here are remarkably well-versed in the act of gaslighting, ...
Hey guys, I offered an olive branch a while ago. I even congratulated you on your civility of your last few comments. Hope you take it. In the meantime, pls stay on the high road, don't go back into non useful exchanges like the long post referenced above. Let's focus on product / company QA if you will, deal ?
It is useful if it cautions someone just discovering the company to avoid giving them money. What exactly is the point of placating them? This has been going on for 4 years. They are doing what criminals do - refusing to do as they said, and keeping all the money. Why give them even an inch at this point? Why continue to let them get away with it?
I sincerely dont know what you mean by focus on product/company QA. Have you seen how they communicate? What are you trying to accomplish here? I'm not asking rhetorically. Do you think you will somehow transform them into normal people who act professionally and communicate clearly and do as they say?
@TextBladeDenied can you think of any company that exists now or has ever existed in the history of the world that you respect than WayTools?
'that I respect than Waytools'? Did you mean 'that I respect less than waytools' or 'that I respect more than waytools'? Not sure what the intent of your question is. I can tell you that there are plenty of companies I appreciate and respect and even cherish (particularly the one I work for), many CEOs I have learned from and respect, and of course there are companies I do not respect at all. Waytools is a tiny little outfit. I assume it to primarily reflect the will and attitudes of its owner Mark Knighton, a narcissistic liar who has no idea how to grow a company or cultivate customers or deliver a product or meet a deadline. It is relatively easy (compared to real accomplishment) to lie to people and take their money and deflect truth and obfuscate reality, and when a person or company does that, they should not be allowed to hide from it. Ethics in business is extremely important to keep society functioning properly. Transparency is also key to business, and of course politics. Everything waytools does is totally opaque. Because they are liars.
I've always believed that education and positive communication were some of the best hallmarks of being human. I thought the World Wide Web, by allowing 24x7 access, at very low cost, the ability to link, and now the ability to search, would improve education. That people might read more and learn and think more.
But from this forum, I see people gaslighting, alternating between bullying and pretending to suddenly be curious again, and being disingenuous, and intentionally stomping out a good discussion. There is no place for this kind of bullying behaviour. You were therefore shut out of the WayTools Fora, and in your current replies I see no remorse for your behaviour, nor even the simplest reflection in considering that you might have been bullies.
If you were on StackOverflow, your comments would have been downvoted so much, the physical evidence of wrongdoing would be obvious and you might have to face such consequences and reflect upon your bullying and gaslighting behaviour.
I believed education can replace ignorance with more enlightened behaviour and attitudes, and that knowledge can replace blind unverifiable beliefs with actionable improvements. For those reasons, plus the need to defend what is good and right, I think some people have tried to reply to your comments.
I think most tech aficionados want "nice things", which take deep research and development. In this climate where funding is cut and mostly resource-extraction is being funded, it takes a certain mentality to have hope for the future and to create "nice things". When you abuse such people, you force them to waste time and energy defending themselves rather than creating nice things. So, the verbal violence exhibited by @Rolanbek, @ericpeets, @TextBladeDenied, @arkorott, this verbal violence is "why we can't have nice things." You are ruining it for all of us. I may not see your replies - because for my own sake, I've added you on my ignore list. I don't wake up wishing to be subjected to see the latest abuse you have heaped on others.
I've always believed that education and positive communication were some of the best hallmarks of being human.... But from this forum, I see people gaslighting, alternating between bullying and pretending to suddenly be curious again, ... If you were on StackOverflow, ... I believed education can replace ignorance with more enlightened ... I think most tech aficionados want "nice things", which take deep research...
Utter and complete tripe. Deflection. Obfuscation. Delusion. Fails to address any substantive issue at hand. Written by one of the three primary waytools cohorts who populates the waytools forum. By all means ignore us and we will ignore you.
If you give waytools your money, this is precisely the kind of nonsense you will receive in lieu of a shipping product. I gave them my money 4 years ago, and the above type of BS is all I have received in exchange.
Comments
Lawyers routinely use it, even though there are English equivalents.
The Latin construct of the tricolon remains a powerful form of statement.
From Obama’s eulogy for Mandela - And when the night grows dark, when injustice weighs heavy on our hearts, when our best-laid plans seem beyond our reach, let us think of Madiba and the words that brought him comfort within the four walls of his cell: “It matters not how strait the gate, how charged [with punishments] the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.”
The beauty of these latin original constructs is timeless.You probably would not take issue with using ‘flora and fauna’.
You could instead say plants and animals, but flora and fauna retain their utility, and are less prosaic and more literary.
It would seem that goal here was to pedantically assert an error, rather than simply enjoy another valid way that may be a bit more artistic. Celebrating beauty is more fun.
The only one arguing 'both ways' is you. My individual order is not the point here. Each of your public replies illustrates your inability or unwillingness to salvage your ruined reputation, and that is my entire purpose in engaging with you. Cautioning people not to give your their money is what interests me. Shining light on the past 4 years of your blatant lies and gaslighting and ethical ineptitude is my purpose. Your behavior is so inappropriate! Only wanton criminals behave as you do, lying and bickering and sniping and insulting people to deflect attention from your own ill intentions and irresponsible behavior.
Appleinsiders article was cautionary, but it did not completely vet the situation and expose the full degree to which you have blatantly misled your customers. The article vaguely and inaccurately suggested that your so-called 'Tesla model' was some kind of plan from the outset, but that was not entirely accurate reporting. I would wager you fed them that phrase, 'Tesla model'. The truth is that you lied to people at the outset. You knew you did not have a working product, but the orders were not initially advertised as 'pre-orders'. You told people they would have the product on much more specific dates. The ship dates were not 'spring' or 'fall' or 2020 or whatever they have evolved into now. All of that vague nonsense erupted out of the daily gaslighting rituals you engaged in as part of your effort to extract more money from more people in exchange for a product you cannot and will not ever ship. That is what I believe, and my basis is 4 years of indisputable absolute failure on your part to deliver a finished working product to everyone who ordered it, myself included.
A reminder to anyone new to all of this - we are talking about a product advertised by waytools as ready to ship and orders placed for it in the year 2015!
Once again shut your bickering mouth and focus your addled brain on delivering the product you have failed to deliver for 4 years. Otherwise, give all the money back to all the people who paid you, and crawl back under whatever rock you came from. Choose an option. Do it now.
Hope you take it.
In the meantime, pls stay on the high road, don't go back into non useful exchanges like the long post referenced above.
Let's focus on product / company QA if you will, deal ?
Cosmo has not come out yet (June 2019) but it seems will be plagued with the same SW weaknesses as the Gemini (buggy, and unstable Android Apps) and Linux more of a proof of concept with limited functionality despite a rd party developer and enthusiast has been maintaining Debian Linux running despite zero support for Planet Computers.
Edit: that is why I am now more patient with WT if they say they need to rework firmware for the GR masses. But this group that preordered years ago, and is active here, on WTF and reddit would be more than willing to get a unit with non ideal firmware now. SO that is why I urge them to ship to this group.
Edit 2: as this was my 3rd try at responding left a few things out. Had the Gemini, sold it at eBay because without proper SW that takes advantage of the awesome HW / keyboard was very frustrating. Pulled my support for the Cosmo as it seems to follow the same direction.
Status of the Cosmo: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/cosmo-communicator#/updates/all
Status of Gemini / basic productivity Soft: http://https//www.oesf.org/forum/index.php?showforum=192
Yeah anyone who's paying attention has got it by now, thanks particularly to the company's own posts.
Let's just drop the Latin usage issue.
In a previous post, I asked:
I ask this for a friend who still has an order for a Textblade, and he's not keen on iOS or Apple devices. Namely, would I need to help him out every time he boots up the Textblade, or can I do this just once and he'll be set? Same questions for the advanced features of the Textblade, such as accessing macros, different layers, etc.?
Can you tell me what the particular configuration is that requires iOS? Is it something crucial to the basic operation of Textblade or can my friend safely ignore it and just start using on his android device? I can help him out with the updates -- unless they're very frequent and mandatory to do.
I sincerely dont know what you mean by focus on product/company QA. Have you seen how they communicate? What are you trying to accomplish here? I'm not asking rhetorically. Do you think you will somehow transform them into normal people who act professionally and communicate clearly and do as they say?
But from this forum, I see people gaslighting, alternating between bullying and pretending to suddenly be curious again, and being disingenuous, and intentionally stomping out a good discussion. There is no place for this kind of bullying behaviour. You were therefore shut out of the WayTools Fora, and in your current replies I see no remorse for your behaviour, nor even the simplest reflection in considering that you might have been bullies.
If you were on StackOverflow, your comments would have been downvoted so much, the physical evidence of wrongdoing would be obvious and you might have to face such consequences and reflect upon your bullying and gaslighting behaviour.
I believed education can replace ignorance with more enlightened behaviour and attitudes, and that knowledge can replace blind unverifiable beliefs with actionable improvements. For those reasons, plus the need to defend what is good and right, I think some people have tried to reply to your comments.
I think most tech aficionados want "nice things", which take deep research and development. In this climate where funding is cut and mostly resource-extraction is being funded, it takes a certain mentality to have hope for the future and to create "nice things". When you abuse such people, you force them to waste time and energy defending themselves rather than creating nice things. So, the verbal violence exhibited by @Rolanbek, @ericpeets, @TextBladeDenied, @arkorott, this verbal violence is "why we can't have nice things." You are ruining it for all of us. I may not see your replies - because for my own sake, I've added you on my ignore list. I don't wake up wishing to be subjected to see the latest abuse you have heaped on others.
Since you say you’ll never get your shipment, there’s no reason for you to keep an order.
That way you can continue your disparagement campaign, absolutely free of charge.
We’ve not responded to your fresh baiting, and increasingly extreme personal attacks.
We’re keeping to the spirit of the posting rules here. You’re not.
If you give waytools your money, this is precisely the kind of nonsense you will receive in lieu of a shipping product. I gave them my money 4 years ago, and the above type of BS is all I have received in exchange.