A full ban on sale & purchase of Huawei 5G & other networking gear in the US appears immin...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited May 15
U.S. President Donald Trump will allegedly sign an executive order this week blocking American companies from using any telecoms equipment made by Huawei, according to a report.

Huawei Nova 4


The order was actually been under consideration for over a year but delayed multiple times, and could still be delayed again, three anonymous U.S. officials told Reuters. Trump is however expected to invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, giving him the authority to control commerce in response to a national emergency. If that's done, the Commerce Department and other agencies will have to devise an enforcement scheme.

While the order is predicted to avoid naming specific countries or companies, the Trump administration has previously argued that Huawei equipment could be used by the Chinese government to infiltrate U.S. networks. Huawei is believed to have close government ties, and Chinese hackers regularly target American agencies and businesses.

The company is already blocked from selling products to the U.S. government, and the Trump administration has been urging other countries to avoid using Huawei for 5G cellular.

The firm has denied any threat, and accused the U.S. of wielding national security laws simply to suppress a major Chinese business. Indeed Huawei is the world's third biggest smartphone maker, and holds a solid lead in its home country. It was poised to become a major player in 5G infrastructure until U.S. intervention.

The "big [U.S.] wireless companies" -- presumably AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint -- have already severed ties with Huawei, Reuters said, but some rural carriers are said to be using Huawei and ZTE switches for cost reasons.

Update: Trump has signed an executive order declaring a national emergency over threats posed by Huawei.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,931member
    Just do it and pressure rest of world to follow.
    magman1979
  • Reply 2 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,648member
    wood1208 said:
    Just do it and pressure rest of world to follow.
    The US government has been pressuring (threatening and bullying even) in countries it has no business ordering what to do, for some time now.

    Tim Cook might be sweating a little right now (along with Boeing and a few farmers). We'll see how it plays out.
    Carnagerinosaur
  • Reply 3 of 26
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 4,297member
    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.
    genovellehammeroftruthdeminsddysamoriaCarnage
  • Reply 4 of 26
    rob53rob53 Posts: 2,010member
    Has anyone actually found anything in Huawei hardware? Intel has its own issues (ZombieLoad) so what exactly has anyone discovered in Huawei computer chips? Is the administration simply targeting a Chinese company to protect US companies?
    genovelleGeorgeBMacavon b7muthuk_vanalingamrepressthisCarnage
  • Reply 5 of 26
    tmaytmay Posts: 3,645member
    U.S. President Donald Trump will allegedly sign an executive order this week blocking American companies from using any telecoms equipment made by Huawei, according to a report.

    Huawei Nova 4


    The order was actually been under consideration for over a year but delayed multiple times, and could still be delayed again, three anonymous U.S. officials told Reuters. Trump is however expected to invoke the International Emergency Economic Powers Act, giving him the authority to control commerce in response to a national emergency. If that's done, the Commerce Department and other agencies will have to devise an enforcement scheme.

    While the order is predicted to avoid naming specific countries or companies, the Trump administration has previously argued that Huawei equipment could be used by the Chinese government to infiltrate U.S. networks. Huawei is believed to have close government ties, and Chinese hackers regularly target American agencies and businesses.

    The company is already blocked from selling products to the U.S. government, and the Trump administration has been urging other countries to avoid using Huawei for 5G cellular.

    The firm has denied any threat, and accused the U.S. of wielding national security laws simply to suppress a major Chinese business. Indeed Huawei is the world's third biggest smartphone maker, and holds a solid lead in its home country. It was poised to become a major player in 5G infrastructure until U.S. intervention.

    The "big [U.S.] wireless companies" -- presumably AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile, and Sprint -- have already severed ties with Huawei, Reuters said, but some rural carriers are said to be using Huawei and ZTE switches for cost reasons.
    Those rural carriers serve about 100,000 customers out of 327 million living in the U.S, so the cost to switch given the impetus by FCC and a little legislation to finance that, shouldn't be difficult.


  • Reply 6 of 26
    genovellegenovelle Posts: 907member
    rob53 said:
    Has anyone actually found anything in Huawei hardware? Intel has its own issues (ZombieLoad) so what exactly has anyone discovered in Huawei computer chips? Is the administration simply targeting a Chinese company to protect US companies?
    China is an easy target but also the only challenge facing Russia. Since we have  capitulated 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 7 of 26
    rob53 said:
    Has anyone actually found anything in Huawei hardware? Intel has its own issues (ZombieLoad) so what exactly has anyone discovered in Huawei computer chips? Is the administration simply targeting a Chinese company to protect US companies?
    This:

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18523701/huawei-vodafone-italy-security-backdoors-vulnerabilities-routers-core-network-wide-area-local


    It has caused quite the controversy in the UK and in Italy. 
    edited May 15 watto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 26
    mwhitemwhite Posts: 188member
    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.
    BS.....
    jas99watto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,648member
    In almost a decade the US has found exactly nothing in Huawei gear to support its claims. Huawei called the US government out over that point.

    "Huawei has a strong track record in security for three decades. Serving three billion people around the world. The U.S. security accusation of our 5G has no evidence. Nothing.”

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/26/huawei-the-us-security-accusation-of-our-5g-has-no-evidence-nothing/

    To top that off the UK has been poking away at Huawei source code for even longer and never found anything related to spying either.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/huawei-gchq-security-evaluation-uk

    That's why the US  now claims that evidence of wrongdoing is not even necessary as the security risk is all they need.

    Of course Cisco could be placed under the same microscope as Huawei but that hasn't happened - yet. If they were, the boot may very well end up on the other foot.

    Like Huawei, Cisco denies any wrong doing.

    As with all ICT suppliers, holes are found and patched. Cisco is no different. Nor is Huawei.

    The biggest and most damning question on Huawei is why they would risk the destruction of the company by spying on anyone in the first place? 30 years to build a multi billion dollar enterprise and then shoot it down in flames for one incident.

    The Chinese government doesn't need Huawei in any shape or form. All spy agencies will try to wiggle their way into anything they can. Complicity just isn't a requirement and that is why banning Huawei for a crime that hasn't even been committed won't protect anyone from spying.

    On the other hand it will protect US commercial interests somewhat. That's protectionism and that is the real issue. That and the floundering US role in our technological futures.

    GeorgeBMacnzhong168dysamoriaCarnage
  • Reply 10 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,648member
    rob53 said:
    Has anyone actually found anything in Huawei hardware? Intel has its own issues (ZombieLoad) so what exactly has anyone discovered in Huawei computer chips? Is the administration simply targeting a Chinese company to protect US companies?
    This:

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18523701/huawei-vodafone-italy-security-backdoors-vulnerabilities-routers-core-network-wide-area-local


    It has caused quite the controversy in the UK and in Italy. 
    Didn't you follow the story?

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/30/huawei_enterprise_router_backdoor_is_telnet/
    GeorgeBMacloopychewCarnage
  • Reply 11 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,990member
    avon b7 said:
    wood1208 said:
    Just do it and pressure rest of world to follow.
    The US government has been pressuring (threatening and bullying even) in countries it has no business ordering what to do, for some time now.

    Tim Cook might be sweating a little right now (along with Boeing and a few farmers). We'll see how it plays out.

    The US government has every interest in setting trade policy with other nations.  As for tariffs, I doubt Cook is worried, nor is Boeing.  Any pain will be temporary and nothing compared to what the cheating, communist Chinese are going through.  
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,990member

    avon b7 said:
    In almost a decade the US has found exactly nothing in Huawei gear to support its claims. Huawei called the US government out over that point.

    "Huawei has a strong track record in security for three decades. Serving three billion people around the world. The U.S. security accusation of our 5G has no evidence. Nothing.”

    https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/26/huawei-the-us-security-accusation-of-our-5g-has-no-evidence-nothing/

    To top that off the UK has been poking away at Huawei source code for even longer and never found anything related to spying either.

    https://www.wired.co.uk/article/huawei-gchq-security-evaluation-uk

    That's why the US  now claims that evidence of wrongdoing is not even necessary as the security risk is all they need.

    Of course Cisco could be placed under the same microscope as Huawei but that hasn't happened - yet. If they were, the boot may very well end up on the other foot.

    Like Huawei, Cisco denies any wrong doing.

    As with all ICT suppliers, holes are found and patched. Cisco is no different. Nor is Huawei.

    The biggest and most damning question on Huawei is why they would risk the destruction of the company by spying on anyone in the first place? 30 years to build a multi billion dollar enterprise and then shoot it down in flames for one incident.

    The Chinese government doesn't need Huawei in any shape or form. All spy agencies will try to wiggle their way into anything they can. Complicity just isn't a requirement and that is why banning Huawei for a crime that hasn't even been committed won't protect anyone from spying.

    On the other hand it will protect US commercial interests somewhat. That's protectionism and that is the real issue. That and the floundering US role in our technological futures.


    I love how you act like Chinese companies are independent of their government.  They have an unholy alliance of state control mixed with vulture capitalism and corporate espionage.  Taking action against Huawei is the same as taking action against the government.  The risk has been deemed too great.  No crime?  Are you kidding?  The Chinese have conducting an economic and technological war against us for 20 years.  They use companies like Huawei to help.  
    tmayjas99StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 26
    deminsddeminsd Posts: 126member
    mwhite said:
    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.
    BS.....
    Which part of what he said was untrue?
    muthuk_vanalingamdysamoria
  • Reply 14 of 26
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 16,990member

    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.

    1.  We have been in an economic and technological war with China for decades.  Trump didn't create anything, nor is there any evidence of "corruption" or "criminality."  
    2.  China will suffer far more than we will.  They need us more than we need them.  Just do the math.  
    3.  Trump is engaging with countries all over the world.  The only difference is he is putting our nations interests first.  Tell me how NATO funding i doing?  Tell me about our relationship with most of Arab world?  Tell me about trying to work with North Korea?  He's far from "go it alone."  His predecessor was the one who decided to unilaterally overthrow Gaddafi without Congressional approval, went on a literal apology tour, and allowed ISIS to take hold.  
    4.  No money is needed to finance the tax cuts, because revenue is already up 2%.  The problem, as anyone who can do arithmetic can see, is spending.  I grant you that Trump has been as bad as Obama or Bush on spending.  But it's not the "tax scam."  Speaking of the name, you sound like you're reading from Pelosi's talking points.  The "scam" benefited the middle and lower economic classes as a % far more than the wealthy and upper class.  
    5.  Again.  Wrong.  We have 500 billion a year trade deficit.  China accounts for about 2% of our economy, while we account for nearly 20% of theirs.  They depend on double digit growth, which is now down 30% from its two-decade average.  Short term, we will see higher prices, and that may cause some pain.  But China is panicking right now.  That is why they are leaking threats of dumping treasuries and such....they only thing they can do is try to tank our markets.  
    jas99watto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 26
    tedz98tedz98 Posts: 16member
    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.
    You made the observation that China has lent the US one trillion dollars. However you draw the wrong conclusion. They need us more than we need them. They will be out $1 trillion or more if we default.  It’s in their best interests to have a healthy US. 

    It’s about time we stood up to the Chinese. Especially as it relates to IP theft. And Tim Cook needs to move a chunk of Apple manufacturing out of China. To India and even the US. 

    If you want to talk about corruption you’d better include Bill and Hillary in your framework.  The Clinton Foundation was a huge pay to play scam which has virtually shut down since Hilary lost the election and there is no influence available to be purchased.  If you can’t see that then you are just a simple hypocrite. 
    jas99watto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 26
    sdw2001 said: Short term, we will see higher prices, and that may cause some pain.  But China is panicking right now.  That is why they are leaking threats of dumping treasuries and such....they only thing they can do is try to tank our markets.  
    Short term? Trump abandoned the TPP in January of 2017 and still doesn't have a replacement 2 1/2 years later. It doesn't look to me like China is panicking either. They appear to be willing to sit tight while Trump has to enter an election cycle. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 17 of 26
    asdasdasdasd Posts: 5,283member
    sdw2001 said:

    Trump is creating a war against China and Chinese companies (as well as Iran) to distract from the exposures of his own corruption and criminality.

    Unfortunately it won't be he who suffers but America and Americans. 
    Meanwhile the rest of the world is sliding away from the U.S. as Trump elects the failed "go it alone" strategy of the Bush Administration where the only countries who support his policies are those who have been bullied into it.

    This is unlikely to end well.
    Particularly now that the U.S. has to sell a Trillion dollars of bonds a year to finance Trump's Taxscam.  The U.S. is vulnerable -- especially as China has already loaned the U.S. over a Trillion dollars.  Frankly, we need them more than they need us.

    1.  We have been in an economic and technological war with China for decades.  Trump didn't create anything, nor is there any evidence of "corruption" or "criminality."  
    2.  China will suffer far more than we will.  They need us more than we need them.  Just do the math.  
    3.  Trump is engaging with countries all over the world.  The only difference is he is putting our nations interests first.  Tell me how NATO funding i doing?  Tell me about our relationship with most of Arab world?  Tell me about trying to work with North Korea?  He's far from "go it alone."  His predecessor was the one who decided to unilaterally overthrow Gaddafi without Congressional approval, went on a literal apology tour, and allowed ISIS to take hold.  
    4.  No money is needed to finance the tax cuts, because revenue is already up 2%.  The problem, as anyone who can do arithmetic can see, is spending.  I grant you that Trump has been as bad as Obama or Bush on spending.  But it's not the "tax scam."  Speaking of the name, you sound like you're reading from Pelosi's talking points.  The "scam" benefited the middle and lower economic classes as a % far more than the wealthy and upper class.  
    5.  Again.  Wrong.  We have 500 billion a year trade deficit.  China accounts for about 2% of our economy, while we account for nearly 20% of theirs.  They depend on double digit growth, which is now down 30% from its two-decade average.  Short term, we will see higher prices, and that may cause some pain.  But China is panicking right now.  That is why they are leaking threats of dumping treasuries and such....they only thing they can do is try to tank our markets.  
    1) If you see trade as a war then everybody loses. 
    2) Both countries will suffer from a hostile and large trade war. American companies will suffer, including Apple, but China will probably keep selling to Europe.
    3) How is nato funding going? Same as ever.  Relationship with the Arab world, about the same. North Korea? Also the same. You are right about Libya though, a total clown show.
    4) I'd like to see the statistics on that middle class windfall.
    5) Those statistics  ( the 2%) ignore the cost of American companies losing access to Asian manufacturing. Apple could be in very hot water if it has to move from China, this is not something it can do in a month, or even a year.
    GeorgeBMacloopychew
  • Reply 18 of 26
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 3,648member
    sdw2001 said:
    avon b7 said:
    wood1208 said:
    Just do it and pressure rest of world to follow.
    The US government has been pressuring (threatening and bullying even) in countries it has no business ordering what to do, for some time now.

    Tim Cook might be sweating a little right now (along with Boeing and a few farmers). We'll see how it plays out.

    The US government has every interest in setting trade policy with other nations.  As for tariffs, I doubt Cook is worried, nor is Boeing.  Any pain will be temporary and nothing compared to what the cheating, communist Chinese are going through.  
    Yes. It has an interest but what happens when its interests don't align with the interests of the other country? They get threatened. Can you see how that creates resentment?

    It's not tariffs I'm talking about but direct action. How about a direct tit-for-tat iPhone ban in China? How about cancelling the Chinese Boeing orders. It is estimated that China was going to order around 7,000 Boeing planes through to 2037.

    The cancellation of the Boeing orders was already on the table (following the new tariffs that came into effect last Friday).
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 19 of 26
    avon b7 said:
    rob53 said:
    Has anyone actually found anything in Huawei hardware? Intel has its own issues (ZombieLoad) so what exactly has anyone discovered in Huawei computer chips? Is the administration simply targeting a Chinese company to protect US companies?
    This:

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/30/18523701/huawei-vodafone-italy-security-backdoors-vulnerabilities-routers-core-network-wide-area-local


    It has caused quite the controversy in the UK and in Italy. 
    Didn't you follow the story?

    https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/04/30/huawei_enterprise_router_backdoor_is_telnet/
    Plenty have been following the story: The core problem was that Huawei did not patch (i.e. remove) it when instructed. Then when they said they did, it was still operational after the patch.

    On a side note: It really doesn't matter what one calls it, debug access is a no go.
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 26
    wood1208wood1208 Posts: 1,931member
    If you want to make China accept fair trading practices that won't happen by imposing trade tariffs by USA only. Rest of world(European,Canada,South American,Asian) countries must join the fight.
    If USA thinks China has to loose more than USA so at the end USA will win. May be, may be not. Question is do Americans and it's divided political system has ability to take long term pain, tolerance that Chinese can ? Once trade related higher pricing long term pain starts, millennium Americans, people living in suburban,immigrants will jump the ship and go against to pressure American political system to bend backward and compromise, This is no 2nd world war where country was one to fight against. So, unless both political parties are solid one voice against China, don't start the fight unless if you plan to finish till finished.
    edited May 15
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