Apple's new Mac Pro internal components - answers and lingering questions [u]

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  • Reply 41 of 91
    tipootipoo Posts: 1,058member
    Probably won't matter to many but bonus lingering question: Who makes the FPGA? 

    It seemed like as Intel was anticipating Apple leaving them in the next few years, they were still selling Apple stuff but not going out of their way to customize for Apple anymore. They could be making it, but Xilinx is also possible. More Xilinx+Apple partnership could be very very interesting. 
    edited June 5
  • Reply 42 of 91
    zimmie said:


    an 8-core 3.5GHz processor ..., and supports up to 1TB of 2666MHz memory.
    12-core chip is clocked at 3.3GHz, ... it also supports up to 1TB of memory
    the 16-core 3.2GHz ...it also includes support for 1TB of 2933MHz memory.
    the 24-core 2.7GHz ...the 24-core model can handle up to 2TB of 2933MHz memory, though Apple rates the Mac Pro to handle 1.5TB at this time.
    Lastly, the high-end 28-core processor is clocked at 2.5GHz, ...with the same memory capacity as the 24-core model.
    So if some models are limited to 1TB and some 1.5TB, does that mean the max memory per slot is lower for the 1TB versions, or is the number of usable memory slots reduced for the 1TB versions?
    The answer to this one is a little weird. You are likely to be able to use 128 GB LRDIMMs in any slot. Once you hit the 1 TB limit, it could go one of two ways. It is possible the limit is real, and additional sticks won't be used by the processor.

    I think it is more likely the system only "supports" 1 TB, but will use anything you give it. "Support" in this context is purely about the ability to call the vendor for help if something goes wrong. Intel supports 32 GB of RAM with the NUC6 line of systems, but it has since been discovered you can use 64 GB (32 GB SO-DIMMs had not been shipped when those NUCs were sold).

    As for the 2 TB limit, I strongly suspect that will not be reachable in the Mac Pro as shown. It would require 12x 170 GB DIMMs, which are not a thing. The limit on the processors is probably 2 TB for systems with 16 RAM slots.

    Edited to add: Or you will have to use 4x256 + 8x128 sticks to reach it. That's a possibility, but would break bank interleaving, so the RAM would get significantly slower.

    Would be neat if the Mac Pro shipped with the ability to take Optane DIMMs. It's easy to get to 2 TB with those.
    See my earlier comments, here or in other related posts. In short:
    - The limit is real, and based on Intel's CPUs. They won't recognize more than 1TB or 2TB, depending on model.
    - You can get to 2GB with 256GB DIMMs, as you said, which are very pricey. Yes, that affects interleaving, but for applications where this matters, having more RAM is way more important than that minor speed difference (and it is, in fact, minor- RAM speed difference effects are always drastically reduced by CPU caches).

    The CPUs are regular or "M" models, which don't support Optane. Only the "L" models do. I'm pretty sure an aftermarket upgrade to an "L" CPU would not work.
  • Reply 43 of 91
    skiwiskiwi Posts: 6member
    WRT discussion on soldering vs slots.  IIRC the unit is slotted, correct?
  • Reply 44 of 91
    axcess99axcess99 Posts: 36member
    Latko said:
    normm said:
    Apple tends to solder the processor to the board directly, rather than using any sort of holstering system, as a means to prevent processor changes after purchase, as well as potentially saving space by not needing the slotting mechanism.
    The main reason to solder chips rather than socket them is the increase in reliability.  Each contact in a socket adds a potential point of failure in the future.
    Same for car wheels & bolts. Try to be reasonal.
    Why did author have to jump to stating the completely speculative clause "as a means to prevent processor changes after purchase" as if it were the definitive/primary reason for the practice, while subsequently giving an objectively pragmatic engineering reason for the choice as if it were obvioulsy secondary. p.s. car wheels/bolts are hardly in the same class of wear and tear / consumable as a cpu chip. That's an absurd rebuttal.
    netmagepscooter63
  • Reply 45 of 91
    dougddougd Posts: 289member
    Can the older trash can 2013 Mac Pro drive the new XHD monitor?
  • Reply 46 of 91
    karmadavekarmadave Posts: 327member
    I sell professional workstations (amongst other products) for a living and am also an Apple 'fanboi' so here are some observations of the new Mac Pro:

    - Limited to a single CPU. While this might not seem like a big deal, comparable PC workstations support up to 2 x 28-Core Intel Xeon CPU's. Great for rendering and other multi-core applications.

    - Limited to AMD graphics (and only 2 x GPU's). Nvidia is the leader in high-end GPU's and I'm surprised Apple doesn't support ANY of their products on this platform. Maybe that's coming in the future? This must have been a topic at WWDC... 

    The 'Afterburner' FPGA card will ONLY accelerate 'ProRes and ProRes RAW codecs in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player X, and "supported third-party apps,".

    - Limited to 2 internal drive bays. Kind of a head scratcher. Most high end professional workstations offer up to 8 (or more) internal drives + RAID.

    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500, while Apple's 6K monitor starts at $5,000.

    Finally. The price. Comparable PC workstations are a MUCH better value. I know Apple customers are willing to pay a premium, but this will test their willingness...

    The new Mac Pro will appeal to a high-end Macintosh-centric Video and Music engineers able to spend Other People's Money (OPM). It's leaps and bounds beyond the previous Mac Pro, but PC workstations offer comparable, or better, hardware features at a lower cost...
  • Reply 47 of 91
    mr. hmr. h Posts: 4,740member
    karmadave said:
    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500
    reference please.
    Finally. The price. Comparable PC workstations are a MUCH better value.
    Again, reference(s) please. Obviously the only Mac Pro price we know is for the base configuration, and everything that I've read so far is that the equivalent specs from HP, Dell, and Lenovo cost more.
    edited June 6 bb-15netmage
  • Reply 48 of 91
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,995administrator
    karmadave said:
    I sell professional workstations (amongst other products) for a living and am also an Apple 'fanboi' so here are some observations of the new Mac Pro:

    - Limited to a single CPU. While this might not seem like a big deal, comparable PC workstations support up to 2 x 28-Core Intel Xeon CPU's. Great for rendering and other multi-core applications.

    - Limited to AMD graphics (and only 2 x GPU's). Nvidia is the leader in high-end GPU's and I'm surprised Apple doesn't support ANY of their products on this platform. Maybe that's coming in the future? This must have been a topic at WWDC... 

    - The 'Afterburner' FPGA card will ONLY accelerate 'ProRes and ProRes RAW codecs in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player X, and "supported third-party apps,".

    - Limited to 2 internal drive bays. Kind of a head scratcher. Most high end professional workstations offer up to 8 (or more) internal drives + RAID.

    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500, while Apple's 6K monitor starts at $5,000.

    Finally. The price. Comparable PC workstations are a MUCH better value. I know Apple customers are willing to pay a premium, but this will test their willingness...

    The new Mac Pro will appeal to a high-end Macintosh-centric Video and Music engineers able to spend Other People's Money (OPM). It's leaps and bounds beyond the previous Mac Pro, but PC workstations offer comparable, or better, hardware features at a lower cost...
    It isn't limited to two GPUs. Factory, it's limited to two drive bays, but the MPX has other options.
    bb-15netmage
  • Reply 49 of 91
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 2,516member
    For people who don't live in clean room environments, how does Apple suggest the cheese graters be cleaned?
  • Reply 50 of 91
    thttht Posts: 3,313member
    cpsro said:
    For people who don't live in clean room environments, how does Apple suggest the cheese graters be cleaned?
    Uh, like how everything else is cleaned?

    For this, looks like you can lift the case out, the part with the cheese graters. You then take a vacuum cleaner and suck out any accumulated lint, or you can do the reverse and use compressed air to blow it away. Then, you use an alcohol based cleaner and start wiping and it shouldn’t leave water marks because it’s an alcohol type solution, or similar type solution.

    For the PCBs and heat sinks, compressed air. Not sure I would want to touch PCBs and heat sinks with anything else. There could be some hydrophobic and lint-ophobic coatings on the heat sinks to minimize collection of dust and lint on them, and I wouldn’t touch them with any solution other than manufacturer recommended ones.

    For iPhones, iPads and other displays, I think Apple only recommends a microfiber cloth and warm water.
  • Reply 51 of 91
    McRamMcRam Posts: 1member
    Per Snazzy Labs youtube video: The new Mac Pro probably uses Intel Cascade lake processor by Intel announced 4 Jun.
  • Reply 52 of 91
    thttht Posts: 3,313member
    karmadave said:
    I sell professional workstations (amongst other products) for a living and am also an Apple 'fanboi' so here are some observations of the new Mac Pro:

    - Limited to a single CPU. While this might not seem like a big deal, comparable PC workstations support up to 2 x 28-Core Intel Xeon CPU's. Great for rendering and other multi-core applications.

    - Limited to AMD graphics (and only 2 x GPU's). Nvidia is the leader in high-end GPU's and I'm surprised Apple doesn't support ANY of their products on this platform. Maybe that's coming in the future? This must have been a topic at WWDC... 

    - The 'Afterburner' FPGA card will ONLY accelerate 'ProRes and ProRes RAW codecs in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player X, and "supported third-party apps,".

    - Limited to 2 internal drive bays. Kind of a head scratcher. Most high end professional workstations offer up to 8 (or more) internal drives + RAID.

    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500, while Apple's 6K monitor starts at $5,000.

    Finally. The price. Comparable PC workstations are a MUCH better value. I know Apple customers are willing to pay a premium, but this will test their willingness...

    The new Mac Pro will appeal to a high-end Macintosh-centric Video and Music engineers able to spend Other People's Money (OPM). It's leaps and bounds beyond the previous Mac Pro, but PC workstations offer comparable, or better, hardware features at a lower cost...
    It isn't limited to two GPUs. Factory, it's limited to two drive bays, but the MPX has other options.
    These posts are always weird.

    Like, someone is on an Apple forum. How can they not know that Apple and Nvidia currently don’t work together; that Apple makes products to the betterment of their FCPX product, or their other products; that Apple sells products based on intangibles like quietness, build quality, design; that they charge a lot for those “intangibles”? It’s basically what is discussed 24x7x365 on this forum, never mind getting most of the stated bullet points incorrect.

    It’s got 8 PCI slots, plus the 2 SSD bays. Someone could load it up with the Vega Pro II Duo, 32 TB of HDD, 3 PCIe SSDs (4 TB each?), and the 2 HDD drive option from Promise looks like it can fit in still. Sheesh. Someone is going to put 2 Vega Pro II Duos (4 GPUs), and, install and load up the 3 single width slots with GPUs too, and just for fucking cryptocurrency mining. That someone better have some solar panels and a battery to power it through 24x7x365 days they want to run it for.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 53 of 91
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 726member
    karmadave said:
    - Limited to AMD graphics (and only 2 x GPU's). Nvidia is the leader in high-end GPU's and I'm surprised Apple doesn't support ANY of their products on this platform. Maybe that's coming in the future? This must have been a topic at WWDC... 
    Did you mean "two graphics card" instead of "two GPUs"?  I never saw any graphics card with more than two GPUs.
    - Limited to 2 internal drive bays. Kind of a head scratcher. Most high end professional workstations offer up to 8 (or more) internal drives + RAID.
    That's what RAID cards for, isn't it?  Even a 4x slot will be adequate for 8 drives (at least bandwidth wise).
    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500, while Apple's 6K monitor starts at $5,000.
    I only knew 8K HDR as prototypes, and all having issues with bandwidth.  Rest of the 8K monitors doesn't offer HDR were because of that.
    edited June 6 bb-15netmage
  • Reply 54 of 91
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    melgross said:
    The one thing I’m disappointed about is that it’s PCI-E 3. Not 4. As PCI-E 4 motherboards are coming out, and both AMD and Intel announced support for some of their latest high end chips, I would have thought that this would be that. I really want to buy this, this year. I don’t want to buy another one next year, or the one after that. This will have to last me four years. So even if it’s possible to upgrade the CPU, and the GPU(s), I’d hate to be thinking that a double speed bus will be out a year after I bought this, with all the major performance, security and feature enhancements that 4 will bring. Then, PCI-E 5 is expected for 2021. So round we go again.
    This was never going to happen. Next-gen AMD CPUs (Zen 2/Ryzen 3xxx) and their chipset (570) have announced support for PCIe4, but they are not shipping until 7/7. Intel has not announced *any* PCIe4 platforms/chips for this year. The earliest CPU with PCIe4 support will be "Ice Lake" Xeons sometime next year... assuming they can ship it on time. It's on the "10nm+" process, and I have to say, the first 2019 10nm chips are disappointing. We don't really know if they have finally beaten their yield problems either - though if they haven't, their top executives will wind up in court (and possibly jail), given the things they've been saying to investors.

    The only chance we had was if Apple announced that they'd be shipping Ryzens (or next-gen TRs/EPYCs). I would have loved to see that - they're dramatically superior to the current Intels in pretty much every way - but I understand that they're especially risk-adverse at the moment. Maybe next year (would love that, but doubt it).

    melgross said:
    Later this year, both AMD and Intel will have some CPUs ready for 4, but not right now. From what I remember, Intel will have some Xeons. But it’s possible that it’s too late.

    4 is just becoming available in some mobocracy. But even there it’s not all 4, but a hybrid of 3 and 4. 5 isn’t expected until 2021. The problem we’re seeing is that 3 has been around too long.
    Intel will not have any this year. AMD's are shipping 7/7. I'm not sure what you mean by "mobocracy" but all the 570 chipset mobos for AMD that I've seen (a couple dozen at least) are pure PCIe4.
    "It's on the "10nm+" process, and I have to say, the first 2019 10nm chips are disappointing. We don't really know if they have finally beaten their yield problems either"

    According to this post, apparently not:  
    https://semiaccurate.com/2019/06/05/a-look-at-intels-ice-lake-and-sunny-cove/

    "The only chance we had was if Apple announced that they'd be shipping Ryzens (or next-gen TRs/EPYCs). I would have loved to see that - they're dramatically superior to the current Intels in pretty much every way - but I understand that they're especially risk-adverse at the moment."

    What if Apple's waiting to move to their own custom ARM processor?
  • Reply 55 of 91
    heinzelheinzel Posts: 107member
    Silent enclosures have filters in the air intake, does the new Mac Pro have filters to prevent dust buildup inside? Especially if this is to be used in an office environment, it's going to collect a lot of dust otherwise.
    netmage
  • Reply 56 of 91
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 726member
    karmadave said:
    I sell professional workstations (amongst other products) for a living and am also an Apple 'fanboi' so here are some observations of the new Mac Pro:

    - Limited to a single CPU. While this might not seem like a big deal, comparable PC workstations support up to 2 x 28-Core Intel Xeon CPU's. Great for rendering and other multi-core applications.

    - Limited to AMD graphics (and only 2 x GPU's). Nvidia is the leader in high-end GPU's and I'm surprised Apple doesn't support ANY of their products on this platform. Maybe that's coming in the future? This must have been a topic at WWDC... 

    - The 'Afterburner' FPGA card will ONLY accelerate 'ProRes and ProRes RAW codecs in Final Cut Pro X, QuickTime Player X, and "supported third-party apps,".

    - Limited to 2 internal drive bays. Kind of a head scratcher. Most high end professional workstations offer up to 8 (or more) internal drives + RAID.

    Apple's new 6K XDR monitor is cool, but you can buy an 8K XDR monitor, for around $3,500, while Apple's 6K monitor starts at $5,000.

    Finally. The price. Comparable PC workstations are a MUCH better value. I know Apple customers are willing to pay a premium, but this will test their willingness...

    The new Mac Pro will appeal to a high-end Macintosh-centric Video and Music engineers able to spend Other People's Money (OPM). It's leaps and bounds beyond the previous Mac Pro, but PC workstations offer comparable, or better, hardware features at a lower cost...
    It isn't limited to two GPUs. Factory, it's limited to two drive bays, but the MPX has other options.
    I wonder if the ProRes card can work with Thunderbolt, as an external solution.  Would be cool to stick inside an eGPU case.
  • Reply 57 of 91
    canukstormcanukstorm Posts: 1,981member
    Maurizio said:


    There is absolutely no sign of movement in the Nvidia thing since we talked about it a few months ago.
    Yes, but the important thing here is that is a OS/political issue; there is nothing in the hardware that prevent using Nvidia card if the two companies
    get their act together.
    If you watch from 3:45 of this video, Rene mentions that there's no Nvidia support because they won't allow Apple to code to the metal (ie: directly to the hardware) and they essentially want Apple to go through Nvidia's hoops (whatever that means.  I'm assuming it means required to use CUDA).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8CGZEpmFq0&t=362s
    macpluspluspscooter63
  • Reply 58 of 91
    normm said:
    Apple tends to solder the processor to the board directly, rather than using any sort of holstering system, as a means to prevent processor changes after purchase, as well as potentially saving space by not needing the slotting mechanism.
    The main reason to solder chips rather than socket them is the increase in reliability.  Each contact in a socket adds a potential point of failure in the future.
    I think it's the opposite - iMacs all have socketed processors just fine - the sockets have spring contacts that handle physical and thermal flexing great. The soldered on ball grid arrays can crack with thermal stresses of sub par thermal designs (e.g. all apple products except the mac pros) that have large thermal cycles (see history of processor and especially GPU failures with soldered on BGAs). laptops have to have soldered on BGAs for space constraints. Desktops should never if possible. The mac mini update soldering on the CPU was unfortunate. Also the iMac having the GPU soldered on is unfortunate.
  • Reply 59 of 91
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 8,798member
    cpsro said:
    For people who don't live in clean room environments, how does Apple suggest the cheese graters be cleaned?
    I have a can of compressed air, and a vacuum. High tech.
    pscooter63
  • Reply 60 of 91
    yodamacyodamac Posts: 59member
    Unless I'm mistaken, you have to unplug everything connected to the back of the MacPro before lifting the case.  That doesn't seem real convenient for removing it for regular cleaning...

    tht said:
    cpsro said:
    For people who don't live in clean room environments, how does Apple suggest the cheese graters be cleaned?
    Uh, like how everything else is cleaned?

    For this, looks like you can lift the case out, the part with the cheese graters.
    edited June 6
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