Jobs biographer slams Apple design and missed TV opportunity

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,396member
    There’s really nothing special in the display of a TV.  It’s become a commodity.  Apple has stated, Steve had stated, that Apple is interested only in areas where they can meaningfully differentiate the experience.  Walter doesn’t seem to recall that being stated, as recently as the demise of the Airport products.  

    Walter also doesn’t seem to grok the fact that the smartphone, as invented by Apple, has incorporated one after another after another stand-alone product.  The future is in miniaturization of devices that cover what ground the smartphone hasn’t.  That means your wallet, your keys (home and car) and access fobs/cards to work spaces, etc.  Devices that you need to have on your person but shouldn’t need to carry as separate items.  Those go into wearables.  Then there’s augmented reality, which needs to cover your field of view, thus wearable.  Duh!  And how does one create such products, which require even more processing power than what came before yet need to fit in vastly smaller, minimal forms?  By a great deal of R&D and advancement across the industry, including fabrication.  In other words, it will take some time to get there.  You can’t just design physics in a drawing app.  

    Bottom line, we don’t need a new Leica camera design.  We don’t need a new tablet/laptop geometry.  We need to make some big leaps to get small.  Steve Martin can relate, Walter apparently cannot.  The word Luddite comes to mind.  

    Right on;

    Two tweets that define how Apple is perceived in the market;



    and



    "lazy" Apple and Samsung can't "innovate", which is shorthand for "lack of marketshare growth"

    Yet Apple leads and Samsung follows in profitability, and somewhere much further behind, is Huawei. How can that be?

    ASP
    radarthekatStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 81
    dougddougd Posts: 292member
    "ignoring the Apple Watch, the AirPods and the HomePod"  The most laughable Apple products to date.  
  • Reply 43 of 81
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,383member
    A building that 99.99999% of the world will never see in person or use is more design-worthy than every advancement of an iPhone, or AirPods or Watch as mentioned?
    Yes.
  • Reply 44 of 81
    macguimacgui Posts: 2,383member
    A bunch of people have parroted the 'What about iPhone, iPad, and AirPods' line as though it was their own and not a quote from the article. Some actually spelled them correctly. That's comical.

    As interesting and popular as they are, they are not nearly the same level of design as Apple Park. They didn't require nearly the oversight to get those done. They are awesome in their own right. They also pale in comparison to the designing of Apple Park.

    I have never visited the Eiffel Tower, Coliseum, the Empire State Building, or any of the fantastic buildings in Dubai. (I have visited some of the crazy cool buildings in Hong Kong.

    None of those designs are any less for my not seeing them, nor any more for my having seen them. That 99.999999adnausium people won't see Apple Park in person means nothing, except they will miss out of a superb design and engineering experience. The traditional 'Seven Wonders of the World' are no less so because you haven't seen them. To think so says more about you than any design. And just to be clear, that isn't a compliment.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 45 of 81
    FatmanFatman Posts: 513member
    I partly agree with Walter here. Hey fanboys it's okay to question the almighty Apple - they are human - and they've had their share of missteps. Guess what? That's okay! Just be sure to pivot, change quickly, and not become arrogant and complacent.

    Apple TV, (I own two and use daily) in its current state feels like a me-too product. I realize Apple's challenge - they are not the content owner nor the distributor - so there is still a clunky mish-mosh of multiple providers, in various stages of playing nicely with Apple. This is one area where Apple does not have the control that it does elsewhere (music, iphone app store). Without being able to fully dictate their unified vision, the experience suffers.

    Apple also had (still has) a chance to create the greatest TV remote of all time, yet instead they produced a flawed, frustrating device that controls a 'still in beta' frustrating multi-provider TV platform. I avoid using the remote and instead use a Logitech device - which is good, but far from perfect.

    The Apple watch still needs work. It is an amazing piece of hardware (yet could be made much more sleek and modern in my opinion) - look at some of the mock-ups that designers were submitting prior to the launch, some are very cool and forward thinking! Apple tried to design a piece of jewelry and designed around an old fashioned band paradigm - this was a cop-out, and I believe Ive's idea? The button, dial, screen interface is confusing and non-intuitive. I still press the wrong button or have trouble remembering how to get to where I want to on the interface. It reminds me of those awful Casio watches from the 80s, where you would have multiple buttons that perform certain functions and you would need to read a manual to figure it out (or some had instructions written on the watch casing itself!

    I expect more from Apple - hopefully with Ive's departure there will be some courageous designers and new leadership to challenge what has come prior.

    The Fatman
  • Reply 46 of 81
    TC_YoungTC_Young Posts: 1unconfirmed, member
    As a 30 year Apple fan, I have come to believe that we are no longer seeing Apple innovate in the hardware space like they did when Jobs was around. Reminds me of the 1990s, albeit Apple fortunately is in a much healthier space now, financially. The other big difference now is Apple fortunately has a large market share in a mobile platform (iPhones), whereas in the 1990s they usually owned less than 5% of the PC market and it was often declining market share. Unless/until wearables becomes the next big thing, the obvious concern is the maturing mobile phone market will no longer drive big growth for Apple. So what's next? Sadly, I don't see Tim Cook answering that question for us.
  • Reply 47 of 81
    jimh2jimh2 Posts: 638member
    A TV is a non-starter as they are commodities. The Apple one would have been massively overpriced when comparing features. They took the right step by having an add on box and now through integration into manufacturers TV's. Let them worry about production and razor then margins. 

    A better remote for the AppleTV would go a long way for a lot of people.
    tmay
  • Reply 48 of 81
    jurassicjurassic Posts: 94member
    Isaacson: "In the last 15 years, the only great design Apple has done has been the Apple headquarters." Uh... yeah... And the British army took over the American airports during the Revolutionary War.
    DAalsethradarthekatStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 49 of 81
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    Do we know what an SJ TV might have been?

    ...one thing I've read is that SJ did things on principle (x-grid?) vs always for the bottom line... This upredictability apparently made tech CEOs nervous.  I use a 40" 4K screen and while not Apple display grade I find it makes a compelling case for a TV/monitor, running @ 110dpi so it matches the scale of both Apple 27" Cinema displays perfectly, and might a 40" 8K be the hi res (retina?) version...?  Better late than never?
    Man how close are you sitting to your TV to notice a difference between 4k and 8k???

    I think his point was the AppleTV was supposed to evolve into something else than what it currently is. We don’t know what conversation Isaacson had with Jobs, so we don’t know what plans Jobs had for the device. 

    If you look at the context of Isaacson’s comparison of Apple’s current products to Apple Park, he is right.  Everything was meticulously planned out. Whereas if you compare the watch, HomePod and airpods, you can find areas of opportunity. If it wasn’t for health and fitness improvements to the watch, it would have been discontinued. Where are the improvements to the HomePod?  Why is there only minute improvements to the second generation of airpods?

    IMHO, since the firing of Forestall, there hasn’t been much conflict and passion that is the catalyst of creating all of those amazing products like there was when Steve came back to Apple. 

    I'm sure if you were allowed into Apple Park you'd find something to bi*** about.

    mike1 said:
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    He's angry they haven't invented anything that nobody has thought of yet.

    iPhone, iPad, Apple Watch, Airpods, Homepod.

    No one had thought of these and if you look at early fan concepts it just proves the point further.

    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 50 of 81
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    guscat said:
    If he's going back 15 years, he's also leaving out the original MacBook Air and the iPhone in addition to all of the other products listed. What is the last great Apple product they designed, the 2004 iMac?

    As for TVs, they are a very low margin product that has to interact even now with cable. Coming out with a new TV is a lot harder than I think he realizes.

    I believe this is why Apple never released one.

    My dream Apple set would have an A12x chip, 65" XRD display with built in tvOS for $1,000 (yeah right). I think the main problem is keeping Apple standards while keeping the price low.
  • Reply 51 of 81
    jungmarkjungmark Posts: 6,926member
    TC_Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan, I have come to believe that we are no longer seeing Apple innovate in the hardware space like they did when Jobs was around. Reminds me of the 1990s, albeit Apple fortunately is in a much healthier space now, financially. The other big difference now is Apple fortunately has a large market share in a mobile platform (iPhones), whereas in the 1990s they usually owned less than 5% of the PC market and it was often declining market share. Unless/until wearables becomes the next big thing, the obvious concern is the maturing mobile phone market will no longer drive big growth for Apple. So what's next? Sadly, I don't see Tim Cook answering that question for us.
    Sure you are. Name all of Jobs's hardware innovations when he was in charge. You'll find it not so numerous as you thought. 

    Why is it only Apple is expected to find another iPhone level successful product when the iPhone itself is the most successful product in history? 
    edited July 2019 AppleExposedStrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 81
    rcfarcfa Posts: 1,124member
    He has a point. Since Jobs most designs were derivative, or linear continuations: thinner, faster, bigger, etc. but not rethinking a product space or truly perfectionist, just a step above the competition.

    The fact that Ive left shows that his heart wasn’t with Apple for some time; after all, he made more than enough money, and he had all the spotlight on him he could have wanted.
    To leave in such a situation means your heart isn’t there, and that doesn’t happen overnight.

    There are other “Jobs”es out there, but nobody will ever hire them, because just like Jobs, they will have a checkered past, and not be Type-A personalities with a Harvard MBA. Nobody wants to have to explain to the board and shareholders hiring “someone like that” when things don’t work out. So they hire safe, predictable guys with “stellar resumes”...
    applesnoranges
  • Reply 53 of 81
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,064member
    n/t; double-post.
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 54 of 81
    AppleZuluAppleZulu Posts: 2,064member
    As noted by others here, the iPhone was developed and designed in the last fifteen years, so Isaacson's comment was clearly an overly broad offhand remark made in his rush to say something that will get attention. Had he offered a more soberly nuanced commentary about complex relationships among Jobs, Ive, Cook and Apple itself, the 300 people watching live would've shrugged it off, and there'd be no chatter online afterward. By saying something worthy of click-bait, however, Isaacson will probably get a bump in book sales. You can be sure that's what he was thinking about on his way in for his big TeeVee appearance. 
    StrangeDayswatto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 81
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    TC_Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan, I have come to believe that we are no longer seeing Apple innovate in the hardware space like they did when Jobs was around. Reminds me of the 1990s, albeit Apple fortunately is in a much healthier space now, financially. The other big difference now is Apple fortunately has a large market share in a mobile platform (iPhones), whereas in the 1990s they usually owned less than 5% of the PC market and it was often declining market share. Unless/until wearables becomes the next big thing, the obvious concern is the maturing mobile phone market will no longer drive big growth for Apple. So what's next? Sadly, I don't see Tim Cook answering that question for us.
    Of course you are. We always get that one-poster who owns all Apple products but doesn't understand Apple lol.

    macgui said:
    A bunch of people have parroted the 'What about iPhone, iPad, and AirPods' line as though it was their own and not a quote from the article. Some actually spelled them correctly. That's comical.

    As interesting and popular as they are, they are not nearly the same level of design as Apple Park. They didn't require nearly the oversight to get those done. They are awesome in their own right. They also pale in comparison to the designing of Apple Park.

    I have never visited the Eiffel Tower, Coliseum, the Empire State Building, or any of the fantastic buildings in Dubai. (I have visited some of the crazy cool buildings in Hong Kong.

    None of those designs are any less for my not seeing them, nor any more for my having seen them. That 99.999999adnausium people won't see Apple Park in person means nothing, except they will miss out of a superb design and engineering experience. The traditional 'Seven Wonders of the World' are no less so because you haven't seen them. To think so says more about you than any design. And just to be clear, that isn't a compliment.

    So you move the goalposts so far that the only thing innovative from Apple should be buildings? WHAT THE FU**?

    Nice way to dismiss all tech products from a tech company.

    BTW Apple Stores look nice lately:



    The fact that a TECH company is building beautiful world renown architecture is astounding. And here we are bit*ing anyways.... The things we take for granted...
    radarthekatGG1StrangeDaysJWSC
  • Reply 56 of 81
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    dougd said:
    "ignoring the Apple Watch, the AirPods and the HomePod"  The most laughable Apple products to date.  

    Airpods are the 2nd fastest selling Apple product ever. Beating iPhone in many cases.

    Apple Watch literally saves lives and is also faster selling than most Jobs products and has surpassed iPod.

    We don't know HomePod sales but we do know they're making a dent in the market while being priced 7x higher and producing it's own set of knockoffs.
    radarthekatStrangeDays
  • Reply 57 of 81
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    It is easy to say Apple Watch, air pods, etc... are great designed products however is Apple Watch which uses the same form factor as the iPhone, iPad really a genius product or a modern version of a watch and not the re-imagining of what a watch could be?

    Sorry if Isaacson caused some of you to clutch your pearls and gasp but if we were more like Jobs we would not be so inspired by Apple's products these past years either. 
    ElCapitan
  • Reply 58 of 81
    spice-boyspice-boy Posts: 1,450member

    I think his point was the AppleTV was supposed to evolve into something else than what it currently is. We don’t know what conversation Isaacson had with Jobs, so we don’t know what plans Jobs had for the device. 

    If you look at the context of Isaacson’s comparison of Apple’s current products to Apple Park, he is right.  Everything was meticulously planned out. Whereas if you compare the watch, HomePod and airpods, you can find areas of opportunity. If it wasn’t for health and fitness improvements to the watch, it would have been discontinued. Where are the improvements to the HomePod?  Why is there only minute improvements to the second generation of airpods?

    IMHO, since the firing of Forestall, there hasn’t been much conflict and passion that is the catalyst of creating all of those amazing products like there was when Steve came back to Apple. 
    Good points, I agree. 
  • Reply 59 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,435member
    Fatman said:
    The Apple watch still needs work. It is an amazing piece of hardware (yet could be made much more sleek and modern in my opinion) - look at some of the mock-ups that designers were submitting prior to the launch, some are very cool and forward thinking! Apple tried to design a piece of jewelry and designed around an old fashioned band paradigm - this was a cop-out, and I believe Ive's idea? The button, dial, screen interface is confusing and non-intuitive. I still press the wrong button or have trouble remembering how to get to where I want to on the interface. It reminds me of those awful Casio watches from the 80s, where you would have multiple buttons that perform certain functions and you would need to read a manual to figure it out (or some had instructions written on the watch casing itself!
    There are only two buttons. You should maybe practice a bit and pay attention closely while you do? It’s not difficult to use. 
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 60 of 81
    entropysentropys Posts: 4,209member
    Isaacson is a journalist. That tells you all you need to know about what his opinion is worth.
    edited July 2019 AppleExposedGG1
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