Jobs biographer slams Apple design and missed TV opportunity

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Comments

  • Reply 61 of 81
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,114member
    spice-boy said:
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    It is easy to say Apple Watch, air pods, etc... are great designed products however is Apple Watch which uses the same form factor as the iPhone, iPad really a genius product or a modern version of a watch and not the re-imagining of what a watch could be?

    Sorry if Isaacson caused some of you to clutch your pearls and gasp but if we were more like Jobs we would not be so inspired by Apple's products these past years either. 
    Yes Apple Watch is exactly that. A re-imagining of what a watch could be. Tomorrow I will submit a one-week collection of heart rate averages as requested by my cardiologist. Before Apple Watch that was unimaginable even with the most modern version of any watch. Of course there are many fitness trackers, pedometers, BP monitors... what is the privilege of Apple Watch? The privilege is that I have only one wrist to put anything on, and with all its functionality Apple Watch got that wrist.
    edited July 2019 AppleExposedStrangeDaysking editor the grate
  • Reply 62 of 81
    AppleExposedAppleExposed Posts: 1,805unconfirmed, member
    spice-boy said:
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    It is easy to say Apple Watch, air pods, etc... are great designed products however is Apple Watch which uses the same form factor as the iPhone, iPad really a genius product or a modern version of a watch and not the re-imagining of what a watch could be?

    Sorry if Isaacson caused some of you to clutch your pearls and gasp but if we were more like Jobs we would not be so inspired by Apple's products these past years either. 
    Yes Apple Watch is exactly that. A re-imagining of what a watch could be. Tomorrow I will submit a one-week collection of heart rate averages as requested by my cardiologist. Before Apple Watch that was unimaginable even with the most modern version of any watch. Of course there are many fitness trackers, pedometers, BP monitors... what is the privilege of Apple Watch? The privilege is that I have only one wrist to put anything on, and with all its functionality Apple Watch got that wrist.

    And it feels like Watch is only getting started.
    StrangeDaystmay
  • Reply 63 of 81
    1348513485 Posts: 355member
    jurassic said:
    Isaacson: "In the last 15 years, the only great design Apple has done has been the Apple headquarters." Uh... yeah... And the British army took over the American airports during the Revolutionary War.
    Of course, as historians tell us, the colonial airports were ably defended by TSA. The Brits tried to sneak through the Pre√ line but our stalwart heroes stood their ground.
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 64 of 81
    JWSCJWSC Posts: 1,203member
    Given the quality and depth of Isaacson‘s biography on Jobs, his opinion will be given the respect it deserves.


    StrangeDaystmay
  • Reply 65 of 81
    “In naming Apple Park as the only great design, Isaacson is ignoring the Apple Watch, the AirPods and the HomePod”

    He’s not ignoring them, he just doesn’t think they’re great designs. 
  • Reply 66 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member
    dougd said:
    "ignoring the Apple Watch, the AirPods and the HomePod"  The most laughable Apple products to date.  
    Sorry but you’re high. The Watch was an overnight billion-dollar business. I and my friends wear ours every single day - not bad for not watch people (none since high school)...But the fitness tracking (workout & activity tracking), notifications, apple pay, homekit, and ipod features make it worth it. AirPods - genius product, period. HomePod is an excellent shelf speaker system, I’ve retired my much more expensive home theater in favor of simplicity and very-good sound for music and movies. That’s a win. 


    edited July 2019 tmay
  • Reply 67 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member
    macgui said:
    A bunch of people have parroted the 'What about iPhone, iPad, and AirPods' line as though it was their own and not a quote from the article. Some actually spelled them correctly. That's comical.
    Nobody’s parroting anything, it’s an obvious and correct reaction to an idiotic claim. The iPhone, iPad, iMac, AirPods, etc, are all exceptional designs. To say they didn’t matter is to deny history and reality. 
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 68 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member
    Fatman said:
    I partly agree with Walter here. Hey fanboys it's okay to question the almighty Apple - they are human - and they've had their share of missteps. Guess what? That's okay! Just be sure to pivot, change quickly, and not become arrogant and complacent.

    Apple TV, (I own two and use daily) in its current state feels like a me-too product. I realize Apple's challenge - they are not the content owner nor the distributor - so there is still a clunky mish-mosh of multiple providers, in various stages of playing nicely with Apple. This is one area where Apple does not have the control that it does elsewhere (music, iphone app store). Without being able to fully dictate their unified vision, the experience suffers.

    Apple also had (still has) a chance to create the greatest TV remote of all time, yet instead they produced a flawed, frustrating device that controls a 'still in beta' frustrating multi-provider TV platform. I avoid using the remote and instead use a Logitech device - which is good, but far from perfect.

    The Apple watch still needs work. It is an amazing piece of hardware (yet could be made much more sleek and modern in my opinion) - look at some of the mock-ups that designers were submitting prior to the launch, some are very cool and forward thinking! Apple tried to design a piece of jewelry and designed around an old fashioned band paradigm - this was a cop-out, and I believe Ive's idea? The button, dial, screen interface is confusing and non-intuitive. I still press the wrong button or have trouble remembering how to get to where I want to on the interface. It reminds me of those awful Casio watches from the 80s, where you would have multiple buttons that perform certain functions and you would need to read a manual to figure it out (or some had instructions written on the watch casing itself!

    I expect more from Apple - hopefully with Ive's departure there will be some courageous designers and new leadership to challenge what has come prior.

    The Fatman
    Wait - so because you saw some fake 3D rendered mockups, Apple dropped the ball? You do realize mockups have no connection to reality, right? No constraints or real world testing, etc...

    Nice logic. 
    tmay
  • Reply 69 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member

    rcfa said:
    He has a point. Since Jobs most designs were derivative, or linear continuations: thinner, faster, bigger, etc. but not rethinking a product space or truly perfectionist, just a step above the competition.

    The fact that Ive left shows that his heart wasn’t with Apple for some time; after all, he made more than enough money, and he had all the spotlight on him he could have wanted.
    To leave in such a situation means your heart isn’t there, and that doesn’t happen overnight.

    There are other “Jobs”es out there, but nobody will ever hire them, because just like Jobs, they will have a checkered past, and not be Type-A personalities with a Harvard MBA. Nobody wants to have to explain to the board and shareholders hiring “someone like that” when things don’t work out. So they hire safe, predictable guys with “stellar resumes”...
    Another faker who doesn’t know his history. Since Apple was a thing it’s products have been iterative. Yes, this means during Jobs; it is not some post-Jobs sign of DOOOM. Gruber wrote about this almost a decade ago. Read up.


    ...iterative product development is the name of the game. It’s now we got from the original iPhone/Mac/Watch/whatever to the current versions, or iterations.

    The rest of your post is nonsense. You have no idea how Apple hires its talent. 
  • Reply 70 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member

    spice-boy said:
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    It is easy to say Apple Watch, air pods, etc... are great designed products however is Apple Watch which uses the same form factor as the iPhone, iPad really a genius product or a modern version of a watch and not the re-imagining of what a watch could be?

    Sorry if Isaacson caused some of you to clutch your pearls and gasp but if we were more like Jobs we would not be so inspired by Apple's products these past years either. 
    Yeah dude, the Watch is just like an iPhone or iPad, same form factor despite being 5-20x the size...same challenges, same use cases, same sensibilities, same materials... Er no, none of those is true. 

    What drugs are you people on?
    tmay
  • Reply 71 of 81
    StrangeDaysStrangeDays Posts: 12,925member
    spice-boy said:
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    It is easy to say Apple Watch, air pods, etc... are great designed products however is Apple Watch which uses the same form factor as the iPhone, iPad really a genius product or a modern version of a watch and not the re-imagining of what a watch could be?

    Sorry if Isaacson caused some of you to clutch your pearls and gasp but if we were more like Jobs we would not be so inspired by Apple's products these past years either. 
    Yes Apple Watch is exactly that. A re-imagining of what a watch could be. Tomorrow I will submit a one-week collection of heart rate averages as requested by my cardiologist. Before Apple Watch that was unimaginable even with the most modern version of any watch. Of course there are many fitness trackers, pedometers, BP monitors... what is the privilege of Apple Watch? The privilege is that I have only one wrist to put anything on, and with all its functionality Apple Watch got that wrist.
    And there’s only one tracker/monitor that comes in a classy stainless steel and leather package that looks great in the gym or at the opera. 
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 72 of 81
    ouraganouragan Posts: 437member
    guscat said:
    If he's going back 15 years, he's also leaving out the original MacBook Air and the iPhone in addition to all of the other products listed. What is the last great Apple product they designed, the 2004 iMac?

    As for TVs, they are a very low margin product that has to interact even now with cable. Coming out with a new TV is a lot harder than I think he realizes.
    What Walter Isaacson is saying is that impressive design died with Steve Jobs and that Jony Ive wasted the last 15 years of his career at Apple on the intricate details of Apple Campus 2 while totally neglecting the new products that Apple was selling to make money. And I agree with Walter Isaacson. The last great product launched by Steve Jobs before his death was the iMac in October 2009 and the iMac revision in 2014 was catastrophic with its thin edges, poor sound quality, limited repairability and heat dissipation problems. It's thin at the edges, but why ? And how can being thin at the edges be seen as an improvement on the previous Late 2009 iMac design ? Had Tim Cook and Jony Ive paid more attention to the products that Apple is selling, the iMac 2014-2019 would never have been launched. But it is not too late for Tim Cook to take a more active role in the future of the computers that Apple is selling.
    AI_lias
  • Reply 73 of 81
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,435member
    ouragan said:
    The last great product launched by Steve Jobs before his death was the iMac in October 2009
    Hooooo boy.

    NEXT!
    tmay
  • Reply 74 of 81
    EsquireCatsEsquireCats Posts: 1,268member
    DAalseth said:
    Isaacson seems to be working hard to remain relevant. He was Jobs. Iographer. The book came out. End of story. He wasn’t in on the discussions, or the planning, or the long term strategy. He met with Jobs a bunch of times and wrote a book.
    Jobs made plenty of mistakes in his career, one of those was letting Isaacson do his biography. Isaacson could not resist the temptation to be self-serving in that regard.
    I agree with Tim Cook in saying that Isaacson did Jobs a disservice and I think he used the biography primarily for his personal gain. Over the years this motive has become clearer as he keeps trying to leverage Apple for personal publicity.

    Jobs was well known for feeding false information to the press as a means of distraction and Apple are known for trialing numerous products and technologies internally, only to kill them off for various reasons. The TV falls right into that, Apple simply can't compete well in that space without becoming a display manufacturer and the market is saturated with cheap, good enough products. Instead we have the AppleTV and now AppleTV+, two places where Apple can legitimately offer something different.
    edited July 2019 macplusplus
  • Reply 75 of 81
    bestkeptsecretbestkeptsecret Posts: 4,270member

    IIRC, Isaacson didn't want to write the book, but was cajoled by Jobs to do so.

    I find it laughable that a person who spent time with Jobs and a few other to write a book thinks he knows more about Apple and their failures and successes than the people who worked with Jobs at Apple for decades.

    For every "yes", a thousand "no"s. If it made sense, Apple would have released a TV. It's obvious that it didn't, which is why they didn't.

    edited July 2019
  • Reply 76 of 81
    DuhSesameDuhSesame Posts: 1,278member
    rcfa said:
    He has a point. Since Jobs most designs were derivative, or linear continuations: thinner, faster, bigger, etc. but not rethinking a product space or truly perfectionist, just a step above the competition.

    The fact that Ive left shows that his heart wasn’t with Apple for some time; after all, he made more than enough money, and he had all the spotlight on him he could have wanted.
    To leave in such a situation means your heart isn’t there, and that doesn’t happen overnight.

    There are other “Jobs”es out there, but nobody will ever hire them, because just like Jobs, they will have a checkered past, and not be Type-A personalities with a Harvard MBA. Nobody wants to have to explain to the board and shareholders hiring “someone like that” when things don’t work out. So they hire safe, predictable guys with “stellar resumes”...
    To me having “Type-A or headphone jack or not” are more of talks than putting into realistic situations.  There are pros and cons for whatever the situations, but people need to have a “correct judgement” so they can feel they’re right.  Pick your poison.
  • Reply 77 of 81
    fred1fred1 Posts: 1,120member
    TC_Young said:
    As a 30 year Apple fan, I have come to believe that we are no longer seeing Apple innovate in the hardware space like they did when Jobs was around. Reminds me of the 1990s, albeit Apple fortunately is in a much healthier space now, financially. The other big difference now is Apple fortunately has a large market share in a mobile platform (iPhones), whereas in the 1990s they usually owned less than 5% of the PC market and it was often declining market share. Unless/until wearables becomes the next big thing, the obvious concern is the maturing mobile phone market will no longer drive big growth for Apple. So what's next? Sadly, I don't see Tim Cook answering that question for us.
    Of course you are. We always get that one-poster who owns all Apple products but doesn't understand Apple lol.

    macgui said:
    A bunch of people have parroted the 'What about iPhone, iPad, and AirPods' line as though it was their own and not a quote from the article. Some actually spelled them correctly. That's comical.

    As interesting and popular as they are, they are not nearly the same level of design as Apple Park. They didn't require nearly the oversight to get those done. They are awesome in their own right. They also pale in comparison to the designing of Apple Park.

    I have never visited the Eiffel Tower, Coliseum, the Empire State Building, or any of the fantastic buildings in Dubai. (I have visited some of the crazy cool buildings in Hong Kong.

    None of those designs are any less for my not seeing them, nor any more for my having seen them. That 99.999999adnausium people won't see Apple Park in person means nothing, except they will miss out of a superb design and engineering experience. The traditional 'Seven Wonders of the World' are no less so because you haven't seen them. To think so says more about you than any design. And just to be clear, that isn't a compliment.

    So you move the goalposts so far that the only thing innovative from Apple should be buildings? WHAT THE FU**?

    Nice way to dismiss all tech products from a tech company.

    BTW Apple Stores look nice lately:



    The fact that a TECH company is building beautiful world renown architecture is astounding. And here we are bit*ing anyways.... The things we take for granted...
    Good point except for one thing:  Apple did not design these stores!  Apple did not design Apple Park.  Jony Ives did not design Apple Park. When are people going to understand that architects designed these places, not Steve Jobs, not Jony Ives?  Apple Park was designed by Foster and Associates.  The 5th Avenue store in New York was designed by Bohlin, Cywinski, Jackson.  The store in the photograph on the left, which is in Shanghai, was also designed by Bohlin, Cywinski, Jackson.
    Jony and Steve certainly had input, but that doesn't mean they designed these places.  Jony's involvement with Apple Park was construction supervision and discussions about details - a far cry from designing the place.
    I thought Isaacson was a better writer than this, meaning that he does fact checks.  I guess not.

    1st
  • Reply 78 of 81
    1st1st Posts: 443member
    walter, sorry to inform you - your eye sight need new spec. when talk about today's miniture world of design.  can someone take him to sem or TEM (scanning electron or transmission electron microscope) to show him  the surface ground on main PCB (printed circut board) and internal design of guts in product?  He need to see the curavture of inner city of design to appreciate.  Design, is form fit and function.  Although apple park is amazing (including the diffused light), it just bended Murry Hill NJ (ATT Bell lab) in glorify.  According to your own admission, it appear to be not yet show its function superiority - nothing really great come out of it - at least not as fast as ATT Bell lab.... IMHO.  Walter, change glasses - sit with techies in the dark (SEM/TEM  room) and open your eyes... it is different world there.  
    ps.  I appreciate your bio of SJ, although compare to Jim Carlton's early "Apple" book, difference is magnified.  are you sure you have fully catch SJ's spirit to judge Design?  (sorry just wondering... off track).  
  • Reply 79 of 81
    MacProMacPro Posts: 19,773member
    He’s obviously never seen the Apple Watch. Or AirPods, or the HomePod, or the iPhone X, or the new iPads Pro. Where is he living?
    Good question, he's living In the now past glory of having been asked to write by Steve and thinking meeting Steve makes him a guru on Apple years later, kind of like Woz and Sculley.
    edited July 2019
  • Reply 80 of 81
    MindRightMindRight Posts: 7unconfirmed, member
    Man, this Isaacson guy doesn't get out much. Apple has done a ton of good stuff in the last 15 years and has more cool products in the pipeline. I don't buy his rhetoric for one second.
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