iPhone loyalty rates down to 8-year low, survey claims

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 91
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,669member
    Comscore is showing the highest ownership of iPhone ever. Impossible to reconcile with this article. https://www.comscore.com/Insights/Rankings
    Highest ownership of iPhone yes of course, because there are hand-me-downs and people are keeping the phones longer. But when they do finally ditch them, more people are switching to Android than before. The ownership of virtually anything will go up over time and will almost always be bigger than the last year unless the market collapses completely, like it did with MS's attempt at a phone.
  • Reply 22 of 91
    waw74waw74 Posts: 5member
    you have a major inaccuracy in this article

    applecare+ is included in the iPhone upgrade program, not free
    You're still paying the full price for the phone and AppleCare spread over 24 months. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 23 of 91
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,111member
    elijahg said:
    jdw said:
    The continued presence of the "notch" coupled with what consumers perceive as the biggest bang for the buck is no doubt driving this.
    The notch doesn't concern me personally, but the price does. I'll always (within reason) be loyal to Apple, but more and more people are looking at Apple's £1000 phones and thinking "nah, you know what, I'm going to switch to Android," where they get 75% of the features for 25% of the price. Some of the Chinese Android phones really are surprisingly good, even at the £250 price bracket. My friend's £250 Xiaomi has incredible low-light camera performance. Makes the Xs look like something from 5 years ago.

    Current iPhone toting friends are either holding off on a 5s sized device, or as I am, cheaper phones. The flagship 6s was £650 which was pretty good bang for your buck. It was way better than any other phone then. The flagship Xs is now £1000, but hardware wise is it really that much better than the competition? Is it really that much better than the 6s? Software is of course much better than Android, but that was already factored into the £650 iPhone's cost. The Xs is certainly not £350 better than my 6s was at the time.
    If you consider Face ID and the Neural Engine yes, it is. Competitors have already given up face identification on behalf of “almost notchless” phones. Face ID is the only successful tech in that domain. Is it luxurious or burlesque? Absolutely not because you get it as cheap as $750, even cheaper with trade in on the XR. Don’t underestimate that Face ID assembly, it may open a whole growth domain to the iPhone such as health: face analysis, iris analysis, and even more (imagine a Siri that can detect makeup errors or suggest hair style :D ). It is not a fancy Animoji tool. The Watch acquired a whole health and fitness domain thanks to its heart rate sensors.

    Apple’s another superiority is its use of the same CPU across all models of the same generation. Competitors offer differing CPUs by country even in the same model, those may differ even by store or by batch, there is no guarantee. So you get an A12 iPhone for as low as $750 and even cheaper with trade in. I am very glad I could buy an A11 iPhone 8+ substantially cheaper than iPhone X.
    edited July 2019 AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 24 of 91
    rogifan_newrogifan_new Posts: 4,297member
    Who is BankMyCell and are the reputable?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 25 of 91
    davgregdavgreg Posts: 995member
    Would I consider switching from Apple’s overpriced ecosystem? Yes.
    Would I consider anything running Android or made by Scamsung? No.

    Maybe Microsoft should take another stab at a mobile OS.
    AppleExposed
  • Reply 26 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Soli said:
    There's really nothing surprising about this. The plateauing of smartphones design is upon us and with vendors following Apple's lead (which may or may not be from stolen IP) there are more than enough similarities. People that care about protecting their data probably won't jump to Android-based devices and those that are fine with built-in crapware (at best) and spyware (at worse) will likely never see a reason to use an iPhone. To each their own.
    1)  Rather than "stolen ip" it is more probably just a case of a maturing market -- just as happened with PCs a couple decades ago.  Samsung hardware (or that from Huawei or most any other vendor) is a close enough match to Apple's that most people won't notice enough of a difference to pay a premium price simply to get an Apple on the back cover.

    Which leads directly to your second point:
    2)  "People that care about protecting their data....".   Yes, it is the Apple ecosystem that will set Apple apart from the Samsungs, Huawei's and others...   Data privacy is part of that (a big part), but not the entire part.  It also includes the Apple reputation for quality, its willingness and ability to service its products (even if that is simply answering a 'how to' question at the Apple store), its inhouse apps like Numbers and Maps, its great, user friendly OS, its integration with other Apple products such as the watch, and background things such as iCloud backup that prevent those disasters that should never happen but do...

    The Mac line is a good example for the iPhone line:
    A Mac, any Mac, without MacOS is simply a very expensive Windows machine that any manufacturer can match or better whenever they choose.   Macs excel not from their hardware (which is always very good but still mostly just off the shelf stuff anybody can buy and assemble) but from their OS and Apple's ecosystem.   And, iPhones are entering that same mature product arena.

    So, I agree with the implication of what you say:   Apple needs to shift from emphasizing and relying on its hardware and emphasize the other things that set their products like the iPhone apart.

    edited July 2019 elijahg
  • Reply 27 of 91
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
     I think my 12 year old grandson may serve as a good example of what's going on:

    He does not know a single kid (not one!) who doesn't have and use Apple products:   iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple Watches, etc....   while many of their parents do use other (Samsung) products.   But the kids wouldn't be caught dead carrying a Samsung phone.

    Part of that is the prestige factor of Apple.   But most of it is the social networking that Apple enables with FaceTime and iMessage which the kids rely heavily on to communicate with each other.  Without an iPhone, iPad or iPod they are outcasts from their social network.
    elijahgAppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 28 of 91
    uraharaurahara Posts: 690member
    Soli said:
    There's really nothing surprising about this. The plateauing of smartphones design is upon us and with vendors following Apple's lead (which may or may not be from stolen IP) there are more than enough similarities. People that care about protecting their data probably won't jump to Android-based devices and those that are fine with built-in crapware (at best) and spyware (at worse) will likely never see a reason to use an iPhone. To each their own.
    1)  Rather than "stolen ip" it is more probably just a case of a maturing market -- just as happened with PCs a couple decades ago.  Samsung hardware (or that from Huawei or most any other vendor) is a close enough match to Apple's that most people won't notice enough of a difference to pay a premium price simply to get an Apple on the back cover.

    Which leads directly to your second point:
    2)  "People that care about protecting their data....".   Yes, it is the Apple ecosystem that will set Apple apart from the Samsungs, Huawei's and others...   Data privacy is part of that (a big part), but not the entire part.  It also includes the Apple reputation for quality, its willingness and ability to service its products (even if that is simply answering a 'how to' question at the Apple store), its inhouse apps like Numbers and Maps, its great, user friendly OS, its integration with other Apple products such as the watch, and background things such as iCloud backup that prevent those disasters that should never happen but do...

    The Mac line is a good example for the iPhone line:
    A Mac, any Mac, without MacOS is simply a very expensive Windows machine that any manufacturer can match or better whenever they choose.   Macs excel not from their hardware (which is always very good but still mostly just off the shelf stuff anybody can buy and assemble) but from their OS and Apple's ecosystem.   And, iPhones are entering that same mature product arena.

    So, I agree with the implication of what you say:   Apple needs to shift from emphasizing and relying on its hardware and emphasize the other things that set their products like the iPhone apart.

    Which device matches MacBook Pro 15'' (2018)?
    AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 29 of 91
    mattinoz said:
    No measure of how many aren't trading in because they hold on to hardware either for their own use or to hand down to another family member. 
    Absolutely correct.  I'm still using my SE and I might continue until the 2020 iPhones arrive.  It's still completely functional and is currently running iOS 13 developer betas without any problems that are specific to the SE model.
    elijahgwatto_cobra
  • Reply 30 of 91
    bbmnbbmn Posts: 5member
    Tim Apple can we please have a a new iPhone with touch ID and no notch?
    AI_lias
  • Reply 31 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,515member
    urahara said:
    Soli said:
    There's really nothing surprising about this. The plateauing of smartphones design is upon us and with vendors following Apple's lead (which may or may not be from stolen IP) there are more than enough similarities. People that care about protecting their data probably won't jump to Android-based devices and those that are fine with built-in crapware (at best) and spyware (at worse) will likely never see a reason to use an iPhone. To each their own.
    1)  Rather than "stolen ip" it is more probably just a case of a maturing market -- just as happened with PCs a couple decades ago.  Samsung hardware (or that from Huawei or most any other vendor) is a close enough match to Apple's that most people won't notice enough of a difference to pay a premium price simply to get an Apple on the back cover.

    Which leads directly to your second point:
    2)  "People that care about protecting their data....".   Yes, it is the Apple ecosystem that will set Apple apart from the Samsungs, Huawei's and others...   Data privacy is part of that (a big part), but not the entire part.  It also includes the Apple reputation for quality, its willingness and ability to service its products (even if that is simply answering a 'how to' question at the Apple store), its inhouse apps like Numbers and Maps, its great, user friendly OS, its integration with other Apple products such as the watch, and background things such as iCloud backup that prevent those disasters that should never happen but do...

    The Mac line is a good example for the iPhone line:
    A Mac, any Mac, without MacOS is simply a very expensive Windows machine that any manufacturer can match or better whenever they choose.   Macs excel not from their hardware (which is always very good but still mostly just off the shelf stuff anybody can buy and assemble) but from their OS and Apple's ecosystem.   And, iPhones are entering that same mature product arena.

    So, I agree with the implication of what you say:   Apple needs to shift from emphasizing and relying on its hardware and emphasize the other things that set their products like the iPhone apart.

    Which device matches MacBook Pro 15'' (2018)?
    Maybe this?

    https://www.techradar.com/reviews/huawei-matebook-x-pro
    GeorgeBMacAppleExposed
  • Reply 32 of 91
    gilly33gilly33 Posts: 410member
    Hmm survey cited by CNET. Meh! ‘‘Tis the season to claim all kinds of crap about Apple  to fill a tech news cycle. Is there a survey on how accurate surveys really are? I wonder?!
    edited July 2019 AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 33 of 91
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
     I think my 12 year old grandson may serve as a good example of what's going on:

    He does not know a single kid (not one!) who doesn't have and use Apple products:   iPhones, iPads, iPods, Apple Watches, etc....   while many of their parents do use other (Samsung) products.   But the kids wouldn't be caught dead carrying a Samsung phone.

    Part of that is the prestige factor of Apple.   But most of it is the social networking that Apple enables with FaceTime and iMessage which the kids rely heavily on to communicate with each other.  Without an iPhone, iPad or iPod they are outcasts from their social network.
    The problem is, parents are teaching kids to be followers and not leaders. To treat others as outcasts because they are different or because they don't conform to standards you define is really dumb and has become a big problem in this country. These kids will grow up to be intolerant lemmings who's lives are defined by the idiot slabs they use to communicate with other idiots. Not something I would be proud of.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 34 of 91
    kkqd1337kkqd1337 Posts: 389member
    I think people have lost faith in Apple.

    The cold hard fact is that they make hundreds of billions of dollars in profit, whilst claiming to be total angels, where in actual fact all they do is lock you in, and pump you for cash.

    They CAN afford to discount the iPhone but CHOOSE not to. Their CURRENT MARKETING STRATEGY to promote privacy will wax and wane and dilute as needs to generate more cash change.

    Choosing to TRUST any company with your data is a risk. Don't be manipulated by their marketing to believe they are any more trustworthy that their rivals. They are absolutely not. 
    AI_liaspentae
  • Reply 35 of 91
    jcs2305jcs2305 Posts: 1,309member
    bigtds said:
    omalansky said:
    My housekeeper, who has a Samsung phone, occasionally asks me to help her do something on her phone. What a mess! I'd end up shooting myself if I had to switch to the Android operating system!
    Don't pretend this dosen't happen with iOS also.
    Don't pretend you read the post either... OP helped the house keeper thinks Android is a mess and hard to navigate and would NEVER use it. I feel the same when my father asks me to do something on his Android phone as well.  Can I get done what he asks ..yes.. Do I find it a bit slow and convoluted getting to simple things..that are quickly accessed on IOS yes I do.

    Personally if I ever had to make the jump to Android it would only be Pixel for me, or whatever phone is running stock Android with proper updates.
    AppleExposedwatto_cobra
  • Reply 36 of 91
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 6,515member
    jcs2305 said:
    bigtds said:
    omalansky said:
    My housekeeper, who has a Samsung phone, occasionally asks me to help her do something on her phone. What a mess! I'd end up shooting myself if I had to switch to the Android operating system!
    Don't pretend this dosen't happen with iOS also.
    Don't pretend you read the post either... OP helped the house keeper thinks Android is a mess and hard to navigate and would NEVER use it. I feel the same when my father asks me to do something on his Android phone as well.  Can I get done what he asks ..yes.. Do I find it a bit slow and convoluted getting to simple things..that are quickly accessed on IOS yes I do.

    Personally if I ever had to make the jump to Android it would only be Pixel for me, or whatever phone is running stock Android with proper updates.
    Can you provide some examples of simple things that are convoluted?

    To take a screenshot on my Android I simply double tap the screen with a knuckle.

    To go into splitscreen mode I simply draw a horizontal line on the screen (again with a knuckle). To silence an incoming call I simply turn it over. If I am horizontal on the sofa and holding the phone horizontally, I do nothing. The phone uses AI to override rotational preferences.
    edited July 2019 elijahggatorguy
  • Reply 37 of 91
    bigtdsbigtds Posts: 167member
    jcs2305 said:
    Don't pretend you read the post either... OP helped the house keeper thinks Android is a mess and hard to navigate and would NEVER use it. I feel the same when my father asks me to do something on his Android phone as well.  Can I get done what he asks ..yes.. Do I find it a bit slow and convoluted getting to simple things..that are quickly accessed on IOS yes I do.

    Personally if I ever had to make the jump to Android it would only be Pixel for me, or whatever phone is running stock Android with proper updates.
    Really??? I read the post. My response was that it works both ways. People that aren't that familiar with a device or rarely use it, may think it's convoluted. Pretty simple concept. I'm sure even you can understand that.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 38 of 91
    elijahgelijahg Posts: 2,669member
    elijahg said:
    jdw said:
    The continued presence of the "notch" coupled with what consumers perceive as the biggest bang for the buck is no doubt driving this.
    The notch doesn't concern me personally, but the price does. I'll always (within reason) be loyal to Apple, but more and more people are looking at Apple's £1000 phones and thinking "nah, you know what, I'm going to switch to Android," where they get 75% of the features for 25% of the price. Some of the Chinese Android phones really are surprisingly good, even at the £250 price bracket. My friend's £250 Xiaomi has incredible low-light camera performance. Makes the Xs look like something from 5 years ago.

    Current iPhone toting friends are either holding off on a 5s sized device, or as I am, cheaper phones. The flagship 6s was £650 which was pretty good bang for your buck. It was way better than any other phone then. The flagship Xs is now £1000, but hardware wise is it really that much better than the competition? Is it really that much better than the 6s? Software is of course much better than Android, but that was already factored into the £650 iPhone's cost. The Xs is certainly not £350 better than my 6s was at the time.
    If you consider Face ID and the Neural Engine yes, it is. Competitors have already given up face identification on behalf of “almost notchless” phones. Face ID is the only successful tech in that domain. Is it luxurious or burlesque? Absolutely not because you get it as cheap as $750, even cheaper with trade in on the XR. Don’t underestimate that Face ID assembly, it may open a whole growth domain to the iPhone such as health: face analysis, iris analysis, and even more (imagine a Siri that can detect makeup errors or suggest hair style :D ). It is not a fancy Animoji tool. The Watch acquired a whole health and fitness domain thanks to its heart rate sensors.

    Apple’s another superiority is its use of the same CPU across all models of the same generation. Competitors offer differing CPUs by country even in the same model, those may differ even by store or by batch, there is no guarantee. So you get an A12 iPhone for as low as $750 and even cheaper with trade in. I am very glad I could buy an A11 iPhone 8+ substantially cheaper than iPhone X.
    Great, but plenty of people were perfectly happy with TouchID, and the majority of Android phones have touch authentication - where everyone is happy. Apple could have had the sensor on the back and still kept the front of the phone clean. I'm not sure you can claim a single feature is "successful" when it's the only option. FaceID "may" have future health associations though I think it pretty unlikely - thus far it hasn't. Therefore, it's worth what is is at face value right now, not more because some feature may or may not come sometime. Apple could include 32GB RAM in the iMacs and charge handsomely for it, but if it goes unused it's an additional expense that most won't want. Something that costs £350 isn't worth £350 if people don't see the value in it. Right now it is two things, a tool to unlock your phone and yes, a fancy Animoji tool. Those features on the watch were enabled from the start, people bought it for those things and the value of those was included in the £350 the watch costs.

    The Neural Engine is worth nothing to most people. It's impressive, but the majority of people simply don't care, and won't use it through anything other than first party apps. Most developers don't use it, only Apple. My 6s hasn't got the Neural Engine, but it still uses AI to recognise the content of pictures, which happens overnight and by morning they're all curated. If it happens 200% faster because of the Neural Engine, it doesn't matter.

    But most people couldn't give a crap about what CPU is in their phone. I am an electronics engineer and I don't know exactly the model of CPU that's in my 6s, I just know it's pretty much fast enough and that's all that matters to probably 95% of Apple's user base. And in any case that's not true. The 6s had two different manufactures of its CPU, TSMC and Samsung. The TSMC CPUs were on a smaller process node and were faster.
    gatorguy
  • Reply 39 of 91
    macplusplusmacplusplus Posts: 2,111member
    elijahg said:
    elijahg said:
    jdw said:
    The continued presence of the "notch" coupled with what consumers perceive as the biggest bang for the buck is no doubt driving this.
    The notch doesn't concern me personally, but the price does. I'll always (within reason) be loyal to Apple, but more and more people are looking at Apple's £1000 phones and thinking "nah, you know what, I'm going to switch to Android," where they get 75% of the features for 25% of the price. Some of the Chinese Android phones really are surprisingly good, even at the £250 price bracket. My friend's £250 Xiaomi has incredible low-light camera performance. Makes the Xs look like something from 5 years ago.

    Current iPhone toting friends are either holding off on a 5s sized device, or as I am, cheaper phones. The flagship 6s was £650 which was pretty good bang for your buck. It was way better than any other phone then. The flagship Xs is now £1000, but hardware wise is it really that much better than the competition? Is it really that much better than the 6s? Software is of course much better than Android, but that was already factored into the £650 iPhone's cost. The Xs is certainly not £350 better than my 6s was at the time.
    If you consider Face ID and the Neural Engine yes, it is. Competitors have already given up face identification on behalf of “almost notchless” phones. Face ID is the only successful tech in that domain. Is it luxurious or burlesque? Absolutely not because you get it as cheap as $750, even cheaper with trade in on the XR. Don’t underestimate that Face ID assembly, it may open a whole growth domain to the iPhone such as health: face analysis, iris analysis, and even more (imagine a Siri that can detect makeup errors or suggest hair style :D ). It is not a fancy Animoji tool. The Watch acquired a whole health and fitness domain thanks to its heart rate sensors.

    Apple’s another superiority is its use of the same CPU across all models of the same generation. Competitors offer differing CPUs by country even in the same model, those may differ even by store or by batch, there is no guarantee. So you get an A12 iPhone for as low as $750 and even cheaper with trade in. I am very glad I could buy an A11 iPhone 8+ substantially cheaper than iPhone X.
    Great, but plenty of people were perfectly happy with TouchID, and the majority of Android phones have touch authentication - where everyone is happy. Apple could have had the sensor on the back and still kept the front of the phone clean. I'm not sure you can claim a single feature is "successful" when it's the only option. FaceID "may" have future health associations though I think it pretty unlikely - thus far it hasn't. Therefore, it's worth what is is at face value right now, not more because some feature may or may not come sometime. Apple could include 32GB RAM in the iMacs and charge handsomely for it, but if it goes unused it's an additional expense that most won't want. Something that costs £350 isn't worth £350 if people don't see the value in it. Right now it is two things, a tool to unlock your phone and yes, a fancy Animoji tool. Those features on the watch were enabled from the start, people bought it for those things and the value of those was included in the £350 the watch costs.

    The Neural Engine is worth nothing to most people. It's impressive, but the majority of people simply don't care, and won't use it through anything other than first party apps. Most developers don't use it, only Apple. My 6s hasn't got the Neural Engine, but it still uses AI to recognise the content of pictures, which happens overnight and by morning they're all curated. If it happens 200% faster because of the Neural Engine, it doesn't matter.

    But most people couldn't give a crap about what CPU is in their phone. I am an electronics engineer and I don't know exactly the model of CPU that's in my 6s, I just know it's pretty much fast enough and that's all that matters to probably 95% of Apple's user base. And in any case that's not true. The 6s had two different manufactures of its CPU, TSMC and Samsung. The TSMC CPUs were on a smaller process node and were faster.
    All your points make sense and are factual. If most people don’t care about this and that then they will just go with 8 or 7 series or just stick with their 6s or SE. Nothing wrong with that. That doesn’t mean Apple should not make highly integrated phones as the X and XS with $1K price. It is also true that the competition may create confusion around Apple’s (especially lower) price points. They may succeed to some degree unless Apple takes some counter measures, but never to a degree that would hurt Apple significantly. Thank you for your summarizing facts in a concise manner, that will help people very much in deciding and you made me already proud of my 8+ purchase decision.
  • Reply 40 of 91
    My happiness score is down due to all of the ads saying how water just beads off of it like a duck, but the reality was that a 4 second dunk in 3" of water rendered FaceID worthless.  The good news is that for only $659, I could get a refurbished one 4 months before it is 2 generations behind.
    I kept my (now) iPhone 5 Max.
    AI_lias
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