Footnote. NYTimes recently offered me $4 month trial deal. I paid w ApplePay. Took screenshot of confirmation of payment, and received welcoming emails. Then NYT sent me email saying payment didnt go through. Impossible. in limbo now. It could be NYT just wants my credit card direct info.
Apple Pay has a problem with support and retailers, some stores in my area say to swipe, insert, or tap card, but when you use NFC or swipe the card, it says to insert it anyways...
The other problem with Apple Pay cash is that not all debit cards are supported, if you could link a bank account or use any debit card, I think a lot more people would use it... I'm not going to switch banks just so I can use it.
If stores refuse to support Apple pay, the next best thing would be to have Wallet extensions that apps can include, extensions to allow things like dynamic cards or "cards" that can scan qr codes (like in the case of Walmart pay)
The whole point of the Wallet app is to make things easier for users, even if that means giving in a little bit to retailers that insist on a custom solution...
at the small business I work at, I pushed for getting a card reader that supports Apple Pay, but now that we have one, only a couple customers even use it, and yes, it's advertised as being a supported payment method.
I think that another reason adoption is low is because there are still people who don't trust their phone to hold their credit card information like that, "what if I lose my phone or it gets stolen?"
These same people probably also don't use a passcode or have something terribly insecure like 123456 or 000000, just enough to make the phone stop complaining to them about not having a passcode
It’s very simple! Retailers do not like it or want it because they can’t trace the sale! Retailers use your credit card number to identify you. They use a hashed version of that, and other cards you use, to create a unique customer record on you! The data is used to understand shopper behavior, brand affinity, etc., who helps merchandise stores and select the assortment. Because Apple Pay proves them no traceable data it’s considered like a cash sale and non-traceable. Apple needs to further update the loyalty program capabilities to address some of this so companies like Starbucks will support it.
Starbucks supports Apple Pay in Finland, just like any other NFC payment methods. Don't let businesses screw you, and they won't.
Stores are still shutting off Apple Pay capability even though their POS hardware handles it. Home Depot is a perfect example. Until all POS hardware is forced to accept Apple Pay stores will continue to turn it off. Of course users need to understand what they have and use it.
By "forced to accept," hopefully you mean by market forces. As Apple Pay spreads to more merchants, now approaching 75%, companies continue to switch over, witness in the past year massive retailers like Costco and Target. Apple's incentivizing people by giving them 2% with using the phone will exercise even more pressure as people will shop where they get more money back. Holdouts like Kroger, the largest grocery chain in the US are desperately trying to push their own in house options "Kroger Pay," ugh, but they won't last much longer as consumers don't want to deal with this nonsense. Some, like Lowe's, are hurting financially and don't have the money to switch out their equipment to have NFC readers, but as they upgrade, they too will succumb.
Stores are still shutting off Apple Pay capability even though their POS hardware handles it. Home Depot is a perfect example. Until all POS hardware is forced to accept Apple Pay stores will continue to turn it off. Of course users need to understand what they have and use it.
Home Depot’s security is a sieve. I use cash only there or shop elsewhere.
I know about all of Wal-Mart's bullshit to deny Pay but what is the reasoning that Home Depot uses?
Home Depot, like Walmart, doesn't want to lose that data. Right now they link your card to an email, etc.. If they accepted Apple Pay, they wouldn't know anything about you. Control over this data is incredibly valuable to them, so they are fighting to the last against the tide. In contrast, I shopped at an independent national chain, Do it Best Hardware and used my Apple Pay there, as does national chain Ace Hardware. Home Depot is also banking on their main competitor, Lowe's, struggling financially such that they can't upgrade their archaic computer systems. If Lowe's adopts it, Home Depot will overnight have to.
Stores are still shutting off Apple Pay capability even though their POS hardware handles it. Home Depot is a perfect example. Until all POS hardware is forced to accept Apple Pay stores will continue to turn it off. Of course users need to understand what they have and use it.
This is the problem in the US!! I do recall being able to use Apple Pay at Home Depot, but, they, like others, have changed POS systems or payment services and they only accept chip or swipe cards now. Some places accept some NFC payments, but not Apple Pay. Some places have dropped everything except swipe. Most food places haven’t updated at all, only swipe, which is ridiculous! It’s not because people weren’t using it, there is some other reason for it. I think paying through an app has become what they all want, that way they can track your purchases and use or even sell that information. I am totally against this, you have to put your credit card information into each app to use it this way...and you have more and more servers where your credit card (and other information) is stored and more and more chances of it being hacked. ...Kroger won’t accept Apple Pay but working on another system like this. They aren’t listening to what we want, but trying to do what they want.
Unfortunately, there is no way to force merchants to accept Apple Pay. Only thing we can do is keep telling these companies we shop where we can use Apple Pay first, because we prefer the security, privacy and ease of use.
One correction. Companies aren't upgrading to new systems that don't accept NFC, as all the new systems being installed have it; they just aren't activating that feature.
I know about all of Wal-Mart's bullshit to deny Pay but what is the reasoning that Home Depot uses?
Home Depot, like Walmart, doesn't want to lose that data. Right now they link your card to an email, etc.. If they accepted Apple Pay, they wouldn't know anything about you. Control over this data is incredibly valuable to them, so they are fighting to the last against the tide. In contrast, I shopped at an independent national chain, Do it Best Hardware and used my Apple Pay there, as does national chain Ace Hardware. Home Depot is also banking on their main competitor, Lowe's, struggling financially such that they can't upgrade their archaic computer systems. If Lowe's adopts it, Home Depot will overnight have to.
To the credit of Target, they finally got on board and implemented Apple Pay (and Google Pay, etc.)
Apple Watch plus Apple Pay is killer — nothing to pull out of a wallet, faster than a chip reader, and no need to sign. Once you use it, it’s all you want to use.
That is exactly what I was going to say. I use my watch to pay all the time if Apple Pay is used. It is much faster and easier than taking out the credit card and waiting for the chip to be read and verified by the reader. (When I first started using it a couple years ago, I loved watching people freak out over how I paid for whatever I was getting!!)
I have no clue why ANY business would turn off contactless payment on their systems.
One other thing that will drive more people to Apple Pay at least here in NYC, is the roll out of OMNY, the new contactless payment system for mass transit. Right now, it's just limited to Staten Island buses and to part of one subway line. But for that, you don't even need to open up wallet on your phone, or double click the button on the watch. The Express Transit feature takes care of it automatically when you put the watch or phone by the OMNY reader.
Have you successfully used your Apple Watch to pay? I tried using my watch when they first rolled out on the Lexington Avenue line and it didn’t register. I doubled tapped the side button and had my preferred card queued up but nothing happened. I pulled my phone out and it worked fine. To be fair I haven’t tried it since because I have an unlimited Metrocard. I just wanted to test it.
In all honesty I doubt I’ll use my watch anyway since I’m right handed, which means I wear my watch on my left wrist and where the NFC reader is placed on the right side of the turnstile you have to do this really awkward body contortion to reach it. I’ll just pull my phone out since it supports Express Transit and I don’t have to verify with Face ID before I can use it.
Apple Watch plus Apple Pay is killer — nothing to pull out of a wallet, faster than a chip reader, and no need to sign. Once you use it, it’s all you want to use.
Well, I really like having some $20 bills folded up and a $100 in my wallet clip. Guess you do not like real money? If you like the Apple Watch and others do, that's great. As big a fan of Apple and a computer geek I am, I choose not to wear a computer on my wrist. My iPhone does everything that I need, don't see the point of a computer on the wrist. I wear a real watch instead.
I hear you, but I have a $5k Tag that I haven’t put on since I got the original Series 0 watch in 2015. Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
Tried to use Apple Pay at Smiths grocery store and was told "sorry, we only accept Samsung Pay". WTF? Good thing their competition (Albertsons, Whole Foods, Costco) takes Apple Pay. I just stay away from Smiths now.
They actually just don’t accept any NFC based payments. In addition to NFC, Samsung phones have a way to simulate the mag strip on a credit card so the payment terminal is actually thinking someone just swiped a card.
It’s very simple! Retailers do not like it or want it because they can’t trace the sale! Retailers use your credit card number to identify you. They use a hashed version of that, and other cards you use, to create a unique customer record on you! The data is used to understand shopper behavior, brand affinity, etc., who helps merchandise stores and select the assortment. Because Apple Pay proves them no traceable data it’s considered like a cash sale and non-traceable. Apple needs to further update the loyalty program capabilities to address some of this so companies like Starbucks will support it.
Starbucks supports Apple Pay in Finland, just like any other NFC payment methods. Don't let businesses screw you, and they won't.
They support Apple Pay here too. He’s talking about Starbucks’ loyalty program. He wants that made Apple Pay compatible likes some other retailers have.
Stores are still shutting off Apple Pay capability even though their POS hardware handles it. Home Depot is a perfect example. Until all POS hardware is forced to accept Apple Pay stores will continue to turn it off. Of course users need to understand what they have and use it.
Home Depot’s security is a sieve. I use cash only there or shop elsewhere.
As long as you use a chip card to pay there is no way for your card information to be stolen, FYI. When you pay with chip a one time, unique code is generated. Once the transaction is processed that code is no longer valid.
it was the Apple watch that motivated me to start using Apple pay. You cannot beat having your credit card on your wrist. I was never that motivated by having to pull out my iphone.
Apple Watch plus Apple Pay is killer — nothing to pull out of a wallet, faster than a chip reader, and no need to sign. Once you use it, it’s all you want to use.
Can’t wait to upgrade from my Series 2 to a Series 5 in the fall. Double tapping the side button to bring up Apple Pay is dreadfully slow sometimes. If I’m at a place I know accepts it I’ll bring it up ahead of time while they’re ringing up my items. But if it’s a place where I’m unsure and I don’t know until I ask or I see that little contactless logo appear on the screen it can sometimes take 10 seconds or more for it it come up. With just one card in there it’s a little quicker but when I’ve got my 7 credit cards plus my wife’s 3 credit cards, plus loyalty cards for different stores, it is painful. The Series 5 should be much quicker.
Apple needs to educate people that you can use Apple devices for "contactless" payments, normally done by credit cards. Here in the UK, most payments done are contactless (with a £30 transaction limit), and you dont even need to engage the full Apple pay.
I used to think that Apple devices required a special reader to work period, but that is not the case with contactless. You only need the full Apple pay on transactions over £30.
With the Apple Watch it is remarkably easy and those transactions are more secure than a chip card.
Relative to Home Despot and WallyWorld- use Lowes and Target.
What I want to see Apple get aggressive on are utility payments. Entergy and CenterPoint- my electric and gas utilities- both use an outfit called BillMatrix that charges $2.50-$3.00 for a simple transaction to pay your utility bill. That should be an easy market to disrupt.
Over at Kroger, the vultures have just started passing the transaction fee onto the customer at the checkout. That is a practice that needs to be nipped in the bud.
With the Apple Watch it is remarkably easy and those transactions are more secure than a chip card.
Relative to Home Despot and WallyWorld- use Lowes and Target.
What I want to see Apple get aggressive on are utility payments. Entergy and CenterPoint- my electric and gas utilities- both use an outfit called BillMatrix that charges $2.50-$3.00 for a simple transaction to pay your utility bill. That should be an easy market to disrupt.
Over at Kroger, the vultures have just started passing the transaction fee onto the customer at the checkout. That is a practice that needs to be nipped in the bud.
Lowe’s doesn’t accept Apple Pay either. Ace Hardware does though.
Apple can not help you there. BillMatrix is the payment processor. That is who would need to start accepting Apple Pay. Apple would have to replace BillMatrix as a payment processor and I don’t see that as a business Apple wants to get into unless they really decide to go full throttle on Apple Pay because they could then offer merchants incentives to support it.
Apple doesn't do a good enough job of marketing the simplicity of Apple Pay. There should be ads running regularly during major sporting events etc. showing people using their iPhone and/or Apple Watch to pay for stuff. And Apple should also work with all major retailers, banks and POS terminal vendors to remove all of the ridiculous PIN and or Signature authentications for Apple Pay on transactions less than $300. I could see also having to enter a debit card pin for larger amounts, but biometric auth is more secure. And a Signature for a credit card is useless. You can scribble anything you want and it works.
Part of the problem for the low adoption rate has been the number if NFC-enabled machines available at points of sale worldwide. This is changing dramatically with the arrival of contactless credit cards —for example, in my trip to Europe (I am currently there) I’ve noticed an impressive increase in NFC-enabled devices just compared to the past year. I’ve been using my Watch is at least 75% of the restaurants I’ve been to in Paris, for example.
But the equally major problem has been Apple’s piss-poor marketing/information campaign, which has been close to non-existent. In most of the restaurants and retailers, when I ask them whether I can try out my Watch, they first look at me quizzically, then suggest it would not be possible, and then are gobsmacked when it goes through. I’ve heard at least a dozen times that I am the first person they’ve seen using a Watch to pay.
Apple's marketing is fine. Apple can't strongly market Apple Pay when many/most businesses don't take it (or any contactless payment system). However, we, Apple's customers, do the marketing for them. Asking, "do you take Apple Pay/Apple Watch" definitely puts pressure on businesses.
Somehow, Apple and we customers need to demand better service. In many cases, the friction is horrendous.
One type of retailer is really awful -- restaurants. The friction involved with paying is unbearable.
You're done with the meal, now you want to pay and get going. It's a nightmare for both the customer and the wait-staff.
Get their attention, ask to receive the bill, go to a register to generate the bill, come back to the table to give you the bill, place your credit card in the bill envelope, wait for them to pick up bill envelope containing your credit card, go back to the register to generate receipt for the credit card (wait your turn because other wait-staff are in line ahead of you), come back to the table with the new bill (returning your credit card), put your credit card back into your wallet, make sure the copy you need to sign is the merchant copy and not the customer copy, calculate tip amount, write the tip amount on the merchant copy, add the meal cost and your tip, write the sum on the merchant copy, sign the merchant copy, leave it on the table for someone to pick it up after you leave.
Another retailer in bad need to removing friction is parking garages. Get in line to get in, inch up to the ticket dispenser, push button to get a ticket, wait for gate to open (very slowly after some delay), stick ticket somewhere (decide if the ticket can remain in the car, or you should take it with you to get it validated).
Leaving is more of a pain, especially if leaving after an event with a sizable audience. Everyone is stuck waiting in line to leave, cars running, getting zero miles/gallon. Hundreds of cars, waiting to leave at the same time through two exit gates. Whether you've prepaid or not, inch up to a ticket reader, open your window (it's snowing, it's raining, getting into your car), stretch over to get close enough to the ticket reader, stick it in, register reads your ticket, displays amount, get your card out of your wallet, stick in credit card (sometimes the credit card is read going in, sometimes it's read being pulled out -- this affects whether you have to stick it in fast, or pull it out fast), take your credit card, put it back in your wallet (or place it somewhere to do it later), wait for the printer to print the receipt on the ticket, ticket returned, take ticket, put in garbage bag hung someplace on the passenger's side), wait for exit gate to open.
Comments
The other problem with Apple Pay cash is that not all debit cards are supported, if you could link a bank account or use any debit card, I think a lot more people would use it... I'm not going to switch banks just so I can use it.
If stores refuse to support Apple pay, the next best thing would be to have Wallet extensions that apps can include, extensions to allow things like dynamic cards or "cards" that can scan qr codes (like in the case of Walmart pay)
The whole point of the Wallet app is to make things easier for users, even if that means giving in a little bit to retailers that insist on a custom solution...
at the small business I work at, I pushed for getting a card reader that supports Apple Pay, but now that we have one, only a couple customers even use it, and yes, it's advertised as being a supported payment method.
I think that another reason adoption is low is because there are still people who don't trust their phone to hold their credit card information like that, "what if I lose my phone or it gets stolen?"
These same people probably also don't use a passcode or have something terribly insecure like 123456 or 000000, just enough to make the phone stop complaining to them about not having a passcode
Home Depot, like Walmart, doesn't want to lose that data. Right now they link your card to an email, etc.. If they accepted Apple Pay, they wouldn't know anything about you. Control over this data is incredibly valuable to them, so they are fighting to the last against the tide. In contrast, I shopped at an independent national chain, Do it Best Hardware and used my Apple Pay there, as does national chain Ace Hardware. Home Depot is also banking on their main competitor, Lowe's, struggling financially such that they can't upgrade their archaic computer systems. If Lowe's adopts it, Home Depot will overnight have to.
One correction. Companies aren't upgrading to new systems that don't accept NFC, as all the new systems being installed have it; they just aren't activating that feature.
preferred card queued up but nothing happened. I pulled my phone out and it worked fine. To be fair I haven’t tried it since because I have an unlimited Metrocard. I just wanted to test it.
In all honesty I doubt I’ll use my watch anyway since I’m right handed, which means I wear my watch on my left wrist and where the NFC reader is placed on the right side of the turnstile you have to do this really awkward body contortion to reach it. I’ll just pull my phone out since it supports Express Transit and I don’t have to verify with Face ID before I can use it.
I used to think that Apple devices required a special reader to work period, but that is not the case with contactless. You only need the full Apple pay on transactions over £30.
Relative to Home Despot and WallyWorld- use Lowes and Target.
What I want to see Apple get aggressive on are utility payments. Entergy and CenterPoint- my electric and gas utilities- both use an outfit called BillMatrix that charges $2.50-$3.00 for a simple transaction to pay your utility bill. That should be an easy market to disrupt.
Over at Kroger, the vultures have just started passing the transaction fee onto the customer at the checkout. That is a practice that needs to be nipped in the bud.
Apple can not help you there. BillMatrix is the payment processor. That is who would need to start accepting Apple Pay. Apple would have to replace BillMatrix as a payment processor and I don’t see that as a business Apple wants to get into unless they really decide to go full throttle on Apple Pay because they could then offer merchants incentives to support it.
Somehow, Apple and we customers need to demand better service. In many cases, the friction is horrendous.
One type of retailer is really awful -- restaurants. The friction involved with paying is unbearable.
You're done with the meal, now you want to pay and get going. It's a nightmare for both the customer and the wait-staff.
Get their attention, ask to receive the bill, go to a register to generate the bill, come back to the table to give you the bill, place your credit card in the bill envelope, wait for them to pick up bill envelope containing your credit card, go back to the register to generate receipt for the credit card (wait your turn because other wait-staff are in line ahead of you), come back to the table with the new bill (returning your credit card), put your credit card back into your wallet, make sure the copy you need to sign is the merchant copy and not the customer copy, calculate tip amount, write the tip amount on the merchant copy, add the meal cost and your tip, write the sum on the merchant copy, sign the merchant copy, leave it on the table for someone to pick it up after you leave.
Another retailer in bad need to removing friction is parking garages. Get in line to get in, inch up to the ticket dispenser, push button to get a ticket, wait for gate to open (very slowly after some delay), stick ticket somewhere (decide if the ticket can remain in the car, or you should take it with you to get it validated).
Leaving is more of a pain, especially if leaving after an event with a sizable audience. Everyone is stuck waiting in line to leave, cars running, getting zero miles/gallon. Hundreds of cars, waiting to leave at the same time through two exit gates. Whether you've prepaid or not, inch up to a ticket reader, open your window (it's snowing, it's raining, getting into your car), stretch over to get close enough to the ticket reader, stick it in, register reads your ticket, displays amount, get your card out of your wallet, stick in credit card (sometimes the credit card is read going in, sometimes it's read being pulled out -- this affects whether you have to stick it in fast, or pull it out fast), take your credit card, put it back in your wallet (or place it somewhere to do it later), wait for the printer to print the receipt on the ticket, ticket returned, take ticket, put in garbage bag hung someplace on the passenger's side), wait for exit gate to open.