Apple becomes trillion-dollar company once again

Posted:
in AAPL Investors edited September 11
After a month of gains, and one day after Apple's September event, Wall Street has responded by raising the share price for the company to a level that gives it a market capitalization valuation that exceeds 1 trillion dollars once again.




On Wednesday, Wall Street responded to the event and positive news surrounding pricing by analysts with a flurry of trading, starting from an opening price of $218.07 and continuing gains on the day. At about noon eastern time, AAPL shot past $221.16, the share price it needed to beat to reach a market capitalization of $1 trillion dollars based on its basic share count, making the iPhone maker a trillion-dollar company once more.

This is not the first time Apple has reached the heady trillion-dollar heights. In August 2018, it became the first US company in history to reach the milestone, then after reaching a high of $232.07 in October, dropped down considerably in January following a warning Apple would miss its December-quarter guidance by billions of dollars.

This is also not the first time in 2019 that Apple has hit a trillion dollars. In May, a share peak allowed Apple to hit the barrier once more, again following a strong quarterly earnings report.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 25
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,311member
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    edited September 11 watto_cobra
  • Reply 2 of 25
    This article suggests that other companies have reached the trillion dollar value, and this raises the obvious question "Is Apple now the highest valued company?" But the article doesn't say.
  • Reply 3 of 25
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,876administrator
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    edited September 11 lolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 4 of 25
    Mike WuertheleMike Wuerthele Posts: 4,876administrator

    This article suggests that other companies have reached the trillion dollar value, and this raises the obvious question "Is Apple now the highest valued company?" But the article doesn't say.
    If it was, we'd say so. Microsoft at the very least has a higher valuation.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 5 of 25
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,311member
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    Well, then we have a problem here as Yahoo’s stock ticker also lists AAPL as $985B. MarketWatch says $1T, others agree with Yahoo and still others agree with MarketWatch  or $1.007T. I guess it will take a few days for the true story to resolve itself.

    Update: Apple’s Stocks app and other sources now all report AAPL closing with a market cap of $1.01T. Looks like agreement has been reached.
    edited September 11 watto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 25
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    Well, then we have a problem here as Yahoo’s stock ticker also lists AAPL as $985B. MarketWatch says $1T, others agree with Yahoo and still others agree with MarketWatch  or $1.007T. I guess it will take a few days for the true story to resolve itself.
    The reality is that share count for Apple is a moving target. From their last Form 10Q, page 2:

    “4,519,180,000 shares of common stock were issued and outstanding as of July 19, 2019.”

    Clearly, they have LESS shares outstanding than this now, but using that figure, to get to a $1 T market capitalization, they’d have to have a stock price of (1T/4.519180M=) $221.28/share.

    So by that measure, Apple is indeed in the Trillion Dollar Club again.

    Addendum: The less shares Apple has outstanding, the higher the cost per share has to be to reach the 1 T mark. That’s where”valuation” gets interesting. Is Apple only as truly “valuable” as it was a year ago? I would argue that it’s decidedly more valuable....

    Addendum #2: The issue of value is very much in the eyes of the beholder. I’d argue that net cash is “dead value” to most of the market (hence the sky-high valuations for companies like Amazon, Netfix, etcetera). Value is more placed on growth potential, IMHO. By that measure, Apple is clearly still growing handily (years after that was supposed to be impossible), and stock buybacks, which convert “dead” cash into an increased percentage ownership for remaining shares, are thus seen as a legitimate means of increasing stock value for a still-growing company (by increasing earnings and revenue per share).
    edited September 11 neil andersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 7 of 25
    MacProMacPro Posts: 18,368member
    Let's just get to $300 and stop quibbling eh?
    SpamSandwichlkruppneil andersonCarnagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 8 of 25
    MacPro said:
    Let's just get to $300 and stop quibbling eh?
    You got me convinced!
    Carnagewatto_cobra
  • Reply 9 of 25
    Nice. If I disable all the forced and automated subscription services my kids are sucked into, Apple will be a Billion dollar company again.
  • Reply 10 of 25
    Hi.Jack said:
    Nice. If I disable all the forced and automated subscription services my kids are sucked into, Apple will be a Billion dollar company again.
    Don’t let the door hit you in the butt on the way out....
    StrangeDaysSpamSandwichlolliverwatto_cobra
  • Reply 11 of 25
    Hi.Jack said:
    Nice. If I disable all the forced and automated subscription services my kids are sucked into, Apple will be a Billion dollar company again.
    Sure, sure.

    Of course, if you exercised good parenting skills and used the “parental control” function, you’d have already kept your kids from subscribing to things in the first place.

    Barring that, you can go to the “manage subscriptions” page and cancel all of them all at once, no questions asked. That’s one of the benefits of subscribing to content through Apple. You can go right to it and take care of business, and there’s no sales pitch or bargaining to try to change your mind and keep you signed up. This is one one of those features that content providers (Spotify, anyone?) who resent giving Apple a its “cut” don’t realize is actually a means for generating subscribers. For many, the ease of canceling a subscription lowers inhibitions to starting a subscription. 
    edited September 11 SoliStrangeDaystmaylollivergenovellewatto_cobra
  • Reply 12 of 25
    Hi.Jack said:
    Nice. If I disable all the forced and automated subscription services my kids are sucked into, Apple will be a Billion dollar company again.
    What are these forced subscriptions you've fallen victim to?
    tmaywatto_cobra
  • Reply 13 of 25
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,311member
    Hi.Jack said:
    Nice. If I disable all the forced and automated subscription services my kids are sucked into, Apple will be a Billion dollar company again.
    What are these forced subscriptions you've fallen victim to?
    None. This troll is just pulling this out his rear end. Gotta be negative you know. Read the four posts it has shared with us so far. And it can’t even spell.
    edited September 11 watto_cobra
  • Reply 14 of 25
    sacto joe said:
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    Well, then we have a problem here as Yahoo’s stock ticker also lists AAPL as $985B. MarketWatch says $1T, others agree with Yahoo and still others agree with MarketWatch  or $1.007T. I guess it will take a few days for the true story to resolve itself.
    The reality is that share count for Apple is a moving target. From their last Form 10Q, page 2:

    “4,519,180,000 shares of common stock were issued and outstanding as of July 19, 2019.”

    Clearly, they have LESS shares outstanding than this now, but using that figure, to get to a $1 T market capitalization, they’d have to have a stock price of (1T/4.519180M=) $221.28/share.

    So by that measure, Apple is indeed in the Trillion Dollar Club again.

    Addendum: The less shares Apple has outstanding, the higher the cost per share has to be to reach the 1 T mark. That’s where”valuation” gets interesting. Is Apple only as truly “valuable” as it was a year ago? I would argue that it’s decidedly more valuable....

    Addendum #2: The issue of value is very much in the eyes of the beholder. I’d argue that net cash is “dead value” to most of the market (hence the sky-high valuations for companies like Amazon, Netfix, etcetera). Value is more placed on growth potential, IMHO. By that measure, Apple is clearly still growing handily (years after that was supposed to be impossible), and stock buybacks, which convert “dead” cash into an increased percentage ownership for remaining shares, are thus seen as a legitimate means of increasing stock value for a still-growing company (by increasing earnings and revenue per share).
    Strictly speaking, calculating market value based on current share price is nonsense.

    The current market price just indicates the current equilibrium between the buyers who are willing to pay the most and the shareholders willing to sell for the least.  There are millions of AAPL shareholders (and hundreds of major institutional investors who own the bulk of AAPL stock).  Only a few of them are willing to sell their shares for the current price (which is why it's the current price).  Everyone else values their AAPL shares higher.  Therefore if the current market cap for Apple were exactly $1 trillion, even if you had a trillion dollars in cash and could somehow contact every holder of AAPL shares simultaneously, the vast majority of those potential sellers would tell you to buzz off.  Therefore, logically Apple is valued by the market at well over a billion dollars.  (Obviously this isn't unique to Apple; it's just an observation about what "market cap" means--and doesn't mean).
    edited September 11 muthuk_vanalingamwatto_cobra
  • Reply 15 of 25
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,311member
    sacto joe said:
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    Well, then we have a problem here as Yahoo’s stock ticker also lists AAPL as $985B. MarketWatch says $1T, others agree with Yahoo and still others agree with MarketWatch  or $1.007T. I guess it will take a few days for the true story to resolve itself.
    The reality is that share count for Apple is a moving target. From their last Form 10Q, page 2:

    “4,519,180,000 shares of common stock were issued and outstanding as of July 19, 2019.”

    Clearly, they have LESS shares outstanding than this now, but using that figure, to get to a $1 T market capitalization, they’d have to have a stock price of (1T/4.519180M=) $221.28/share.

    So by that measure, Apple is indeed in the Trillion Dollar Club again.

    Addendum: The less shares Apple has outstanding, the higher the cost per share has to be to reach the 1 T mark. That’s where”valuation” gets interesting. Is Apple only as truly “valuable” as it was a year ago? I would argue that it’s decidedly more valuable....

    Addendum #2: The issue of value is very much in the eyes of the beholder. I’d argue that net cash is “dead value” to most of the market (hence the sky-high valuations for companies like Amazon, Netfix, etcetera). Value is more placed on growth potential, IMHO. By that measure, Apple is clearly still growing handily (years after that was supposed to be impossible), and stock buybacks, which convert “dead” cash into an increased percentage ownership for remaining shares, are thus seen as a legitimate means of increasing stock value for a still-growing company (by increasing earnings and revenue per share).
    Strictly speaking, calculating market value based on current share price is nonsense.

    The current market price just indicates the current equilibrium between the buyers who are willing to pay the most and the shareholders willing to sell for the least.  There are millions of AAPL shareholders (and hundreds of major institutional investors who own the bulk of AAPL stock).  Only a few of them are willing to sell their shares for the current price (which is why it's the current price).  Everyone else values their AAPL shares higher.  Therefore if the current market cap for Apple were exactly $1 trillion, even if you had a trillion dollars in cash and could somehow contact every holder of AAPL shares simultaneously, the vast majority of those potential sellers would tell you to buzz off.  Therefore, logically Apple is valued by the market at well over a billion dollars.  (Obviously this isn't unique to Apple; it's just an observation about what "market cap" means--and doesn't mean).
    But that’s not how Wall Street sees it and that’s what counts. Logic has nothing to do with anything here.
    lolliverFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 25
    sacto joe said:
    lkrupp said:
    lkrupp said:
    No doubt this article will soon be “corrected” by the financial “experts” who live here. BTW, Apple’s own Stocks app shows the current market cap to be $983B even with the stock being up $5.74 right now. So where’d AI get this $1T figure from?
    Apple's stock app doesn't appear to be using the correct shares outstanding figure.

    Seconds ago:




    Well, then we have a problem here as Yahoo’s stock ticker also lists AAPL as $985B. MarketWatch says $1T, others agree with Yahoo and still others agree with MarketWatch  or $1.007T. I guess it will take a few days for the true story to resolve itself.
    The reality is that share count for Apple is a moving target. From their last Form 10Q, page 2:

    “4,519,180,000 shares of common stock were issued and outstanding as of July 19, 2019.”

    Clearly, they have LESS shares outstanding than this now, but using that figure, to get to a $1 T market capitalization, they’d have to have a stock price of (1T/4.519180M=) $221.28/share.

    So by that measure, Apple is indeed in the Trillion Dollar Club again.

    Addendum: The less shares Apple has outstanding, the higher the cost per share has to be to reach the 1 T mark. That’s where”valuation” gets interesting. Is Apple only as truly “valuable” as it was a year ago? I would argue that it’s decidedly more valuable....

    Addendum #2: The issue of value is very much in the eyes of the beholder. I’d argue that net cash is “dead value” to most of the market (hence the sky-high valuations for companies like Amazon, Netfix, etcetera). Value is more placed on growth potential, IMHO. By that measure, Apple is clearly still growing handily (years after that was supposed to be impossible), and stock buybacks, which convert “dead” cash into an increased percentage ownership for remaining shares, are thus seen as a legitimate means of increasing stock value for a still-growing company (by increasing earnings and revenue per share).
    Strictly speaking, calculating market value based on current share price is nonsense.

    The current market price just indicates the current equilibrium between the buyers who are willing to pay the most and the shareholders willing to sell for the least.  There are millions of AAPL shareholders (and hundreds of major institutional investors who own the bulk of AAPL stock).  Only a few of them are willing to sell their shares for the current price (which is why it's the current price).  Everyone else values their AAPL shares higher.  Therefore if the current market cap for Apple were exactly $1 trillion, even if you had a trillion dollars in cash and could somehow contact every holder of AAPL shares simultaneously, the vast majority of those potential sellers would tell you to buzz off.  Therefore, logically Apple is valued by the market at well over a [trillion] dollars.  (Obviously this isn't unique to Apple; it's just an observation about what "market cap" means--and doesn't mean).

    If you’d said “valuation” rather than “market [valuation]”, I would have agreed with you. But the market’s valuation/capitalization, while also a moving target like Apple’s share count, is literally defined by price per share times share count.

    It helps to keep our terms clear. And note that nothing says that market cap equals a meaningful estimate of a company’s value, either at a specific moment or as a potential.

    Which, as a long term AAPL owner, has been my beef with the market. Since the Great Recession, the market has drastically underestimated both Apple’s potential for continued growth and the value of it’s cash flow. It’s less the case now, but it took better than a decade to see that begin. And that’s one part of why Apple buying back huge amounts of AAPL at fire sale prices was both a no-brainer and a genius move.
    edited September 11 StrangeDayslolliverFileMakerFellerwatto_cobra
  • Reply 17 of 25
    I would say people liked what they saw and heard at the 🍎 event yesterday.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 18 of 25
    Let's see how long AAPL is able to hold its value before selling off again.  Apple has too many gutless shareholders who quickly dump their stock over any unconfirmed negative rumors.  Apple has shareholders who have little confidence in Apple or Tim Cook.  Look at how solid MSFT stock is at $1T+.  There is very little chance of MSFT stock shedding $450B of value as Apple did.  Wall Street loves THE CLOUD and any company that has such a business.  Apple should have acquired a cloud business instead of just buying back shares.  Apple needs a business Wall Street considers an unlimited growth business.  Apple mainly depending upon iPhone sales for consistent revenue is too risky and Wall Street knows the smartphone business is a zero-growth market, at best.  Look at Microsoft's high P/E (26) compared to Apple's P/E (19).  Apple's P/E definitely shows a lack of big investor confidence.  Apple carries the lowest P/E of all major tech companies and much lower compared to any of the FANG companies.
    StrangeDays
  • Reply 19 of 25
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 7,311member
    Let's see how long AAPL is able to hold its value before selling off again.  Apple has too many gutless shareholders who quickly dump their stock over any unconfirmed negative rumors.  Apple has shareholders who have little confidence in Apple or Tim Cook.  Look at how solid MSFT stock is at $1T+.  There is very little chance of MSFT stock shedding $450B of value as Apple did.  Wall Street loves THE CLOUD and any company that has such a business.  Apple should have acquired a cloud business instead of just buying back shares.  Apple needs a business Wall Street considers an unlimited growth business.  Apple mainly depending upon iPhone sales for consistent revenue is too risky and Wall Street knows the smartphone business is a zero-growth market, at best.  Look at Microsoft's high P/E (26) compared to Apple's P/E (19).  Apple's P/E definitely shows a lack of big investor confidence.  Apple carries the lowest P/E of all major tech companies and much lower compared to any of the FANG companies.
    Look, we all know how Wall Street detests Apple because it doesn’t play by their rules. We all know the stock market runs on fear and greed and that Apple is constantly being bombarded by negative analysis and the implication that it will simply cease to exist any day now. Tech blogs are trumpeting the demise of Apple 24/7/365. One recent headline screamed “Apple just gave 1.4 billion of its users a reason to quit the iPhone.” See what I mean? Nobody understands how Apple operates, how loyal its customers are, and how much its products are valued by the buying public. You apparently don’t either.

    Bottom line though? Apple has made many of its investors wealthy regardless of the negativity spewed by you and others know-nothings.
    randominternetpersonwatto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 25
    Let's see how long AAPL is able to hold its value before selling off again.  Apple has too many gutless shareholders who quickly dump their stock over any unconfirmed negative rumors.  Apple has shareholders who have little confidence in Apple or Tim Cook.  Look at how solid MSFT stock is at $1T+.  There is very little chance of MSFT stock shedding $450B of value as Apple did.  Wall Street loves THE CLOUD and any company that has such a business.  Apple should have acquired a cloud business instead of just buying back shares.  Apple needs a business Wall Street considers an unlimited growth business.  Apple mainly depending upon iPhone sales for consistent revenue is too risky and Wall Street knows the smartphone business is a zero-growth market, at best.  Look at Microsoft's high P/E (26) compared to Apple's P/E (19).  Apple's P/E definitely shows a lack of big investor confidence.  Apple carries the lowest P/E of all major tech companies and much lower compared to any of the FANG companies.
    From about 2003 to about 2011, the price of MSFT barely moved the needle. Since then, it’s gone up dramatically, but lately it’s gotten stuck again at about the $1 T mark.

    The bottom line is there is NO PREDICTING any stock valuation over the long term. And today’s market is more of a casino than most times in the past. Is MSFT a momentum stock? Maybe. If so, it can quickly move in either direction.

    AAPL, OTOH, is clearly not a momentum stock. It’s literally earned at a minimum it’s present Price/Earnings (per share) ratio. Indeed, but for the Trump Tariff War, AAPL would be far above even it’s present price. And someday that War will end.
    edited September 11 neil andersonStrangeDayswatto_cobra
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