Unfortunately the last president became “more flexible” with Putin and Russia after he was re-elected.
Would have been nice if the press and congress would have bothered to follow up on that instead of tilting at windmills like they are now.
If you’re honestly trying to suggest Obama was more Putin-friendly than Trump, and failing to understand why current congress standing up to the current president’s allegiance to Putin and Russia is a thing, then you have greater problems than we can solve on this forum.
The problem in one photo:
I am, and he was.
LOL, two ignorant guys with t-shirts. Yep, that sure proved your case. That definitely beats Obama on a hot mic saying he’s going to be more flexible after the election. Gosh could you imagine what would have happened had that been Trump?
The tee isn’t about Obama, dur. It’s about how the GOP and its base of ignorant voters have become allies with the Russians, led by Trump, the most Russian-commie-friendly president in history. If you’re saying he isn’t, youre only trying to fool yourself here, no one else will buy that nonsense. Moscow Mitch, Trump, and the GOP are Russian bedfellows. Eisenhower would shoot himself if he saw the GOP today.
Apple is not very freedom focused sometimes, and bends to mere financial reasons, to the chagrin of Cook who pretends he always stands behind what is right and just.
Prove it. What is the financial reason in Russia? How big are the revenues based on their economy?
Cook has said the reason they stay in countries with laws we don’t agree with, like Russia, China, and Saudi Arabia, is that they feel people there still benefit more from having Apple devices than not having them.
Women weren’t even allowed to drive in Saudi Arabi until this year, don’t see anybody losing sleep over it. But redrawing the map to show Russian occupation of a territory is a hard stop for you? Ok...
Sounds reasonable to me.
Apple, Google, and other companies who produce maps, and all other tools that provide convenience services that are based on geopolitical data assigned by a Ruling Authority, have absolutely zero control or influence over the assignment of the attributes associated with the services they provide for convenience to users. If the ruling authority says a peninsula has the tag “Russia” assigned as part of its name then the provider of the convenience service is obliged to present that information as part of the full description if they wish their tool to be as accurate as possible for the benefit of their users.
As a user of a mapping tool I’d really want to know that when I approach a geopolitical border the information presented on the map accurately reflects what the ruling authority of the territory has stipulated. I can absolutely guarantee you that if Apple or Google labeled a disputed border with a label that reflected their personal assertion of who the ruling authority is, or the prevailing opinion in their home country, it wouldn’t matter one iota when I attempted to cross the border. Apple is neither an authority on border disputes nor an arbitrator of political disagreements. Does any rational person believe that they would be able to assert “Apple Maps Authority” to gain entry into a country that has a controlled border - because Apple Maps labeled the territorial border based on Apple’s political stance? Gimme a break. Nobody is that stupid, and especially not Apple.
Apple doesn’t even hold piss-ant status when it comes to arbitrating geopolitical issues. They just make a mapping tool as a convenience service for their users. The last thing Apple wants to do is put their users at risk by exposing them to scenarios within their tools that may be misconstrued by real authorities, as opposed to fake authorities like political posers, as being controversial. Quit looking to Apple to solve problems that are not within their purview to solve. Yes, Apple demonstrates amazingly effective leadership when it comes to delivering world class consumer products to market. But Apple’s leadership is domain specific. Even though we see a very pathetic lack of leadership in our political leaders at a time when we see great leadership by Apple, we have to refrain from expecting Apple to cross over into the underserved side of our dilemma because they are simply neither equipped nor empowered to do so. This, and other similar contemporary political shitstorms, are not Apple’s problems to solve. We all know where the problem is, and it ain’t centered in Cupertino.
Who was the Ruling Authority that decided in this case?
Russia
The body that has military ownership of the territory, Russia. Dewme is entirely correct. It doesn’t matter what you, I, or Apple thinks should be — Russia has taken it and controls its borders, and if you’re there in Russia or Crimea that’s just a fact. And the law now.
Never would have guessed that I’d go from long term Apple fanboy to phasing out Apple products due to them sucking up to China and Russia. Crazy times.
...because that’s the law in Russia, and they’re required to follow the law in the countries they do business in. Only other option is to pull out of Russia. Perhaps worth it, I don’t know. I’d love for them to give Putin the finger and exit Russia. But it’s silly to say Apple shouldn’t follow the law they’re currently compelled to follow if they wish to operate in Russia.
It's a fuss of nonsense. This is standard behaviour for cartography. The local map is defined by the local government and this isn't the only border that will change as you move around the globe.
If you really want to make a difference, actually address the issue with people who can help return Crimea to the Ukraine, not a tech company that is beholden to the same laws that everyone else has to follow, a virtual border means squat if the country is still annexed.
If you live in the USA, contact your local politician to pressure the government on Russia, since there is a lot that is still not being done because of your puppet of a president.
If you live in a country not in Europe/EU, North America, Australia/New Zealand or Japan: Then ask your politicians why they have not applied sanctions on Russia, instead of being a keyboard warrior who complains in a forum, but can't manage as much as an email to their representative.
Although Russia's invasion was illegal under international law ( as is most of the US invasions in the last few years), the fact is that Crimea is mostly ethnically Russian, Taking it back, to the Ukraine, doesn't make a whole lot of sense and would be resisted by many people living there.
If the criteria that you want applied to Russia were applied world wide to the US then nobody would trade with the US.
I've read China has the same issues so I could see Apple, and other mapping companies, creating an outlined area for areas under dispute. Of course, that might make a whole lot of areas outlined but it would be better than taking sides. Of course, there should be an authoritative source for country boundaries. Is it the United Nations or does one even exist?
It's also not fair to make the mapping companies the bad guys. They are only trying to present information that someone says is valid.
Also agree. Borders should be shown as recognized by the UN, or the majority of member nations (not sure how that works here either).
Slippery slope if map "corrections" can be pressured into existence.
Something as serious as borders defined this strictly would probably just be for the UN security council to deal with; which would leave both Russia and China with the power to veto any form of not "respecting" their chosen borders.
Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing the borders of Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal.
Now they are violating that treaty and try to annex part of Ukraine. It would take the UN to recognize these new borders in violation of a treaty; of course Trump might just forego a US veto, and China might, too, in exchange for getting Russian support for its policies towards Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet. However, so far, this hasn’t happened, and that means, as far as international law is concerned, Crimea is and remains occupied territory. Period.
Never would have guessed that I’d go from long term Apple fanboy to phasing out Apple products due to them sucking up to China and Russia. Crazy times.
What happened to the 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back?
The libs and dems were all laughing about that not too long ago, now they've all flip flopped and they've been hyperventilating and having delusions and nonsense conspiracy theories about Russia for the past few years. What a bunch of sick freaks. Soon, even more of them will have to seek treatment.
This is not my Apple anymore! And is not the first time....For just a few thousand iPhones more, sale it in Russia, Apple will lose millions worldwide. Where are your principles Mr. Cook?.....Is this what Apple is standing for?
What happened to the 1980's called and they want their foreign policy back?
The libs and dems were all laughing about that not too long ago, now they've all flip flopped and they've been hyperventilating and having delusions and nonsense conspiracy theories about Russia for the past few years. What a bunch of sick freaks. Soon, even more of them will have to seek treatment.
LOL... No, that isn't delusion. That's right wing crazies making up their own reality as they go -- and, of course, to suit their own purposes and agenda.
Well done that Apple has elevated itself from all the geopolitical tussles of this planet. If one looks back through history, Crimea was moved across to Ukraine for administrative convenience during the USSR 1960s period. It houses USSR's Black Sea fleet, having strategic interest to the USSR, now Russia. With the breakup of the USSR, there was a lease to Russia that permitted the continuing operation of the Black Sea fleet. However, US led West decided to flip Ukraine's allegiance through a coloured revolution and then recinds the agreement with the aim of 'killing' the Black Sea fleet. It was but obvious that Russia would 'take back' Crimea, no surprise. Apple's action just reflected geopolitical reality of today but I also understand it'll annoy all the 'America good, Russia bad' fanboys.
I see that everyone is getting hyped over map making. Let's not make assumptions and go to politics. It is just a map making and as someone said, obviously it mark places according to who controls the territory - in this case at this time is Russia. Move on.
That is the situation on the ground. Deal with it.
We are dealing with it, by showing that we don't just agree with whatever Russia feels like doing.
If everyone just quietly agrees with Russia, and keep on supporting businesses that keep doing whatever Russia wants them to do, then Russia will just keep grabbing countries. They'll come for Estonia, Latvia, Finland, at least parts of Alaska, and so on. They'll be just like China and demand to rule any and all areas they feel that they used to control, as well as everywhere were there are people of "their" ethnicity or cultural identity.
So we whine about it until it shows up in the news more and more, and we vote with our wallets to make it bad business to do whatever Russia says; so somewhere down the line it just becomes a bit more inconvenient for Russia to keep doing stupid shit. Some Russian general fed up with his kids complaining about the lack of a Russian AppStore, and some American influencer getting elected president by leveraging the anti-Russian emotions in the press; and so on. It adds up.
Complaining just a little bit might seem absolutely useless today, but in the long run how people react to what's done today will help shape politics (and borders) for decades to come.
That is the situation on the ground. Deal with it.
We are dealing with it, by showing that we don't just agree with whatever Russia feels like doing.
If everyone just quietly agrees with Russia, and keep on supporting businesses that keep doing whatever Russia wants them to do, then Russia will just keep grabbing countries. They'll come for Estonia, Latvia, Finland, at least parts of Alaska, and so on. They'll be just like China and demand to rule any and all areas they feel that they used to control, as well as everywhere were there are people of "their" ethnicity or cultural identity.
So we whine about it until it shows up in the news more and more, and we vote with our wallets to make it bad business to do whatever Russia says; so somewhere down the line it just becomes a bit more inconvenient for Russia to keep doing stupid shit. Some Russian general fed up with his kids complaining about the lack of a Russian AppStore, and some American influencer getting elected president by leveraging the anti-Russian emotions in the press; and so on. It adds up.
Complaining just a little bit might seem absolutely useless today, but in the long run how people react to what's done today will help shape politics (and borders) for decades to come.
If you had read Ciprol's post you would know that it was us (and the EU) grabbing Ukraine and Crimea rather than Russia. Had we minded our own business and stayed out of Russia's and Ukraine's, as we should have, none of this mess -- including impeachment -- would be happening. But, we were continuing our cold war expansionism under the guise of Freedom and Democracy and blaming Russia when they retaliate. One would think that we would have learned our lesson in Iraq. But instead we just shifted tactics from overt to subvert.
I see that everyone is getting hyped over map making. Let's not make assumptions and go to politics. It is just a map making and as someone said, obviously it mark places according to who controls the territory - in this case at this time is Russia. Move on.
Thank you for your advice. But why did you even stopped here? Just move on, Sir.
I've read China has the same issues so I could see Apple, and other mapping companies, creating an outlined area for areas under dispute. Of course, that might make a whole lot of areas outlined but it would be better than taking sides. Of course, there should be an authoritative source for country boundaries. Is it the United Nations or does one even exist?
It's also not fair to make the mapping companies the bad guys. They are only trying to present information that someone says is valid.
Also agree. Borders should be shown as recognized by the UN, or the majority of member nations (not sure how that works here either).
Slippery slope if map "corrections" can be pressured into existence.
Something as serious as borders defined this strictly would probably just be for the UN security council to deal with; which would leave both Russia and China with the power to veto any form of not "respecting" their chosen borders.
Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing the borders of Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal.
Now they are violating that treaty and try to annex part of Ukraine. It would take the UN to recognize these new borders in violation of a treaty; of course Trump might just forego a US veto, and China might, too, in exchange for getting Russian support for its policies towards Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet. However, so far, this hasn’t happened, and that means, as far as international law is concerned, Crimea is and remains occupied territory. Period.
Exactly. De Jure, it is still Part of Ukraine. Regardless of the future developments - it was a Russian envision and the territory was taken by force.
The majority of people in Crimea are Russian. Has anybody of the posters above me acknowledged this? No, certainly not as it doesn't serve American interests.
There are lots of examples of enclaves like that all over the world, and that just isn't enough for another country to get their military out and claim that area as their own; so there's nothing to "acknowledge" about that.
Like Sweden can't just DNA-test their way to a couple of counties in USA, no matter if the people there all speak Swedish (or even have Swedish citizenships); and China can't just sneak a couple of million people into Portugal and then claim half of it because there are so many Chinese there.
If you are making a map it seems the obvious thing is to mark places according to who controls the territory.
It is more than obvious that Russia now controls the Crimea regardless of claims otherwise or the wishes of the toothless United Nations. The same is true regarding Tibet and the West Bank. The map should reflect the world as it is and not as someone wishes it could/should be.
Your are far from reality.
The world is (as it is) a bit more complex than you Wish it could/should be.
Let’s mark China Town in New York as a part of the China. /s Of course this Chinese territory will have Chinese laws as well. That would be fun.
I've read China has the same issues so I could see Apple, and other mapping companies, creating an outlined area for areas under dispute. Of course, that might make a whole lot of areas outlined but it would be better than taking sides. Of course, there should be an authoritative source for country boundaries. Is it the United Nations or does one even exist?
It's also not fair to make the mapping companies the bad guys. They are only trying to present information that someone says is valid.
Also agree. Borders should be shown as recognized by the UN, or the majority of member nations (not sure how that works here either).
Slippery slope if map "corrections" can be pressured into existence.
Something as serious as borders defined this strictly would probably just be for the UN security council to deal with; which would leave both Russia and China with the power to veto any form of not "respecting" their chosen borders.
Russia signed a treaty guaranteeing the borders of Ukraine in exchange for Ukraine giving up its nuclear arsenal.
Now they are violating that treaty and try to annex part of Ukraine. It would take the UN to recognize these new borders in violation of a treaty; of course Trump might just forego a US veto, and China might, too, in exchange for getting Russian support for its policies towards Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet. However, so far, this hasn’t happened, and that means, as far as international law is concerned, Crimea is and remains occupied territory. Period.
Exactly. De Jure, it is still Part of Ukraine. Regardless of the future developments - it was a Russian envision and the territory was taken by force.
Actually, it was us & the EU who attacked first. We were just a bit more subtle.
Comments
Dont expect Apple and Google to do the UN’s job.
If the criteria that you want applied to Russia were applied world wide to the US then nobody would trade with the US.
And while you’re at it: please show all of Europe as Germany, the 1000 year Reich is barely existing for a few decades.
And stop your sanctimonious LGBTI+++ crap: Russia’s government is about as homophobic as it gets.
So just stop pretending you have any values besides $$$$$
Now they are violating that treaty and try to annex part of Ukraine. It would take the UN to recognize these new borders in violation of a treaty; of course Trump might just forego a US veto, and China might, too, in exchange for getting Russian support for its policies towards Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet.
However, so far, this hasn’t happened, and that means, as far as international law is concerned, Crimea is and remains occupied territory. Period.
10 years ago we meddled in Ukraine and now we have a mess.
The libs and dems were all laughing about that not too long ago, now they've all flip flopped and they've been hyperventilating and having delusions and nonsense conspiracy theories about Russia for the past few years. What a bunch of sick freaks. Soon, even more of them will have to seek treatment.
If everyone just quietly agrees with Russia, and keep on supporting businesses that keep doing whatever Russia wants them to do, then Russia will just keep grabbing countries. They'll come for Estonia, Latvia, Finland, at least parts of Alaska, and so on. They'll be just like China and demand to rule any and all areas they feel that they used to control, as well as everywhere were there are people of "their" ethnicity or cultural identity.
So we whine about it until it shows up in the news more and more, and we vote with our wallets to make it bad business to do whatever Russia says; so somewhere down the line it just becomes a bit more inconvenient for Russia to keep doing stupid shit. Some Russian general fed up with his kids complaining about the lack of a Russian AppStore, and some American influencer getting elected president by leveraging the anti-Russian emotions in the press; and so on. It adds up.
Complaining just a little bit might seem absolutely useless today, but in the long run how people react to what's done today will help shape politics (and borders) for decades to come.
Your are far from reality.