Apple nixed Xnor.ai's involvement in Pentagon's Project Maven following acquisition

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 76
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,181member
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.
    The day we're at world war with genocidal nazis, and Apple or Amercian companies don't help the war effort, you let me know. Until then you're just wringing your hands over nothing.
    jony0tmay
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 22 of 76
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,181member
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    JWSCjony0
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 23 of 76
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,181member
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?



    Although there is not a shred of evidence that Huawei did any more along these lines than Apple did.   Just lots and lots and lots of propaganda.
    It's not propaganda, i'ts the law -- every Chinese firm must do the bidding of the CCP. No exceptions. And considering that knockoff is founded and run by a high-ranking member of the CCP, it's particularly worrisome. To believe the CCP doesn't have influence in them is unreasonable. It's members lead the company and they must answer to the CCP. 

    Why you deny this at every opportunity is bizarre. I must conclude you have undisclosed interests. 
    jony0tmaycat52
     3Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 24 of 76
    StrangeDaysstrangedays Posts: 13,181member
    JWSC said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Nationalism is horrible. A nation is the wrong unit to divvy up humanity. Patriotism is an excuse for extraordinary (extraordinarily bad) behavior.
    Am I to interpret what you are saying as, nation states are a bad idea?  If so, what would you propose in its place?

    Nations and nationalism are not the same thing.   Look it up.
    Nationalism for instance, is one of the main propaganda tools used to rally the populace to get the fools to support wars and genocides as well as racism and xenophobia.   Hitler used it to his advantage in the 1930's.  Other dictators and wanna-be dictators also tap into it.
    Very similar to the cultural and racial war China is waging among a minority within its own country, complete with a million put into camps, disappearings, and forced organ harvesting, as reported by the UN and numerous news sources. 

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU

    https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-uighur-muslims-china-tribunal-tells-un-2019-9

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/china-religious-ethnic-minorities-uighur-muslim-harvest-organs-un-human-rights-a9117911.html

    ...lovely people in charge of China, huh?
    edited January 2020
    JWSCjony0fastasleepcat52
     4Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 25 of 76
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,281member
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    edited January 2020
    GeorgeBMac
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 26 of 76
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Then why US government hate Huawei so much? It is pretty much doing the same thing as US company! 
    GeorgeBMac
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 27 of 76
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,469member
    DAalseth said:
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.
    OTOH just think about in WWII if the best minds in Germany didn't help the government. Then the war might not have happened at all.
    Ironically, a lot of the best minds were Jewish, and were eliminated.
    DAalsethGeorgeBMac
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 28 of 76
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,469member

    The U.S. spends 1/3 of the total world defense spending and more than the next seven largest spenders combined.
    While we spend over half of our discretionary spending on defense, China spends it on their own people and development.  We respond by whining that they are a national security threat simply because they're passing us by as the world's largest economy.    One wonders if we will wise up before or after we go broke.
    Bullshit.

    China is spending heavily on becoming a military superpower, and at the same time has, as we can see today, a poor public healthcare system worsened by CCP policy of coverup.

    As for the U.S. and its defense budgets, it is also the case that the U.S. has taken on the responsibility, since the end of WWII, of  maintaining secure trade routes with our Navy, and providing, for the most part, the stability that allows global trade.

    China is building its PLAN (People's Liberation Army Navy) at a pace in tonnage to match the U.S. in the next decade, and many of those will be very small tonnage ships that they already use to harass their neighbors and attempt ownership of islands against the decree of the UN.

    https://thediplomat.com/2019/02/predicting-the-chinese-navy-of-2030/

    I would also note that extrapolating China's growth, based on their less than stellar accounting practices, and given their aging population (that one child policy had a downside, which is why it has morphed to a two child policy) is flawed.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/02/china-population-control-two-child-policy

    China has a huge aging population to deal with, much worse that most of the West, and that is going to impact its economy in the future.
    edited January 2020
    fastasleepcat52
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 29 of 76
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,469member
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    Smartphone deep learning rankings left out the iPhone. How can that be?

    You continue to make the case that Huawei is a State Owned Enterprise, though you would deny that, which is why they are able to offer such low cost telecom buildout. The WTO should penalize Huawei for this, just as other countries are penalized for state support, especially in the EU.

    Boris Johnson's plan to limit Huawei to non core in the UK is meeting a strong pushback, with some Tories advocating for complete elimination of Huawei from the UK in three years.

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jan/29/johnson-faces-tory-rebellion-over-huawei-5g-plans-for-britain
    edited January 2020
    fastasleepcat52
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 30 of 76
    mattinozmattinoz Posts: 2,643member
    tmay said:
    DAalseth said:
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.
    OTOH just think about in WWII if the best minds in Germany didn't help the government. Then the war might not have happened at all.
    Ironically, a lot of the best minds were Jewish, and were eliminated.

    Yes WWII before, during or after really just isn't a great reference when it comes to great minds being treated with respect.
    Maybe Apple has learned a thing or two about that over the years and is using commerce to give them a chance of keeping the peace.
    fastasleep
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 31 of 76
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,281member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    Smartphone deep learning rankings left out the iPhone. How can that be?

    You continue to make the case that Huawei is a State Owned Enterprise, though you would deny that, which is why they are able to offer such low cost telecom buildout. The WTO should penalize Huawei for this, just as other countries are penalized for state support, especially in the EU.

    Boris Johnson's plan to limit Huawei to non core in the UK is meeting a strong pushback, with some Tories advocating for complete elimination of Huawei from the UK in three years.


    I don't know but can confirm that another AI ranking I sometimes follow doesn't list Apple devices either. I imagine it has more to do with software/library issues than anything else. The absence isn't that important as I was talking about the full stack and Apple just isn't in that game.

    The massive scores coming from the Kirin 990 5G are due to the DaVinci Cores (which come from the Ascend line mentioned above).

    Huawei in the UK isn't relevant here. The U.S lost in its efforts to have them banned and is throwing a tantrum.

    I prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table. Believe me, tory MPs don't have that understanding and neither do Trump, Pompeo, Pence, Rubio and Co.

    Johnson had no real reason to listen to the U.S.




    edited January 2020
    GeorgeBMac
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 32 of 76
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,469member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    Smartphone deep learning rankings left out the iPhone. How can that be?

    You continue to make the case that Huawei is a State Owned Enterprise, though you would deny that, which is why they are able to offer such low cost telecom buildout. The WTO should penalize Huawei for this, just as other countries are penalized for state support, especially in the EU.

    Boris Johnson's plan to limit Huawei to non core in the UK is meeting a strong pushback, with some Tories advocating for complete elimination of Huawei from the UK in three years.


    I don't know but can confirm that another AI ranking I sometimes follow doesn't list Apple devices either. I imagine it has more to do with software/library issues than anything else. The absence isn't that important as I was talking about the full stack and Apple just isn't in that game.

    Huawei in the UK isn't relevant here. The U.S lost in its efforts to have them banned and is throwing a tantrum.

    I prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table. Believe me, tory MPs don't have that understanding and neither do Trump, Pompeo, Pence, Rubio and Co.

    Johnson had no real reason to listen to the U.S.




    BTW, when ever you add "Believe me", it is a tell that you are lying. The issue isn't technical, it is price vs national security, and Boris opts for something in between. Still, Parliament may have the last word.

    Huawei isn't getting any core 5G, so a loss for them as well as to the U.S. 
     
    The only reason Boris is pushing Huawei, and Germany for that matter, is they are worried that China might retaliate in the trade negotiations.

    I find it interesting that you "prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table", in which case, the EU would have chosen Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung and Siemens. Bit of course, it really isn't about technical issues, it's just about the low prices that Huawei offers, and China Trade, as a quid pro quo for allowing Huawei.

    edited January 2020
    fastasleepcat52
     2Likes 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 33 of 76
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 8,281member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    Smartphone deep learning rankings left out the iPhone. How can that be?

    You continue to make the case that Huawei is a State Owned Enterprise, though you would deny that, which is why they are able to offer such low cost telecom buildout. The WTO should penalize Huawei for this, just as other countries are penalized for state support, especially in the EU.

    Boris Johnson's plan to limit Huawei to non core in the UK is meeting a strong pushback, with some Tories advocating for complete elimination of Huawei from the UK in three years.


    I don't know but can confirm that another AI ranking I sometimes follow doesn't list Apple devices either. I imagine it has more to do with software/library issues than anything else. The absence isn't that important as I was talking about the full stack and Apple just isn't in that game.

    Huawei in the UK isn't relevant here. The U.S lost in its efforts to have them banned and is throwing a tantrum.

    I prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table. Believe me, tory MPs don't have that understanding and neither do Trump, Pompeo, Pence, Rubio and Co.

    Johnson had no real reason to listen to the U.S.




    BTW, when ever you add "Believe me", it is a tell that you are lying. The issue isn't technical, it is price vs national security, and Boris opts for something in between. Still, Parliament may have the last word.

    Huawei isn't getting any core 5G, so a loss for them as well as to the U.S. 
     
    The only reason Boris is pushing Huawei, and Germany for that matter, is they are worried that China might retaliate in the trade negotiations.

    I find it interesting that you "prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table", in which case, the EU would have chosen Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung and Siemens. Bit of course, it really isn't about technical issues, it's just about the low prices that Huawei offers, and China Trade, as a quid pro quo for allowing Huawei.

    Huawei has lost business as a result but it isn't banned.

    The EU and the UK understand that Huawei is not only cheaper but better. The same has been said by carrier CEOs. One actually sat on a panel with Barr and said just that. Also, the UK, EU and carriers don't want just two 5G players for competition reasons.

    Yes, there are politics and wider trade issues involved too. What is nowhere to be seen are national security issues.
    GeorgeBMac
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 34 of 76
    maltzmaltz Posts: 540member
    I thought politics weren't allowed here?  How is it that 90% of these posts haven't been deleted?
    FileMakerFeller
     1Like 0Dislikes 0Informatives
  • Reply 35 of 76
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,469member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    avon b7 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    This company's work will continue unchanged. The only difference is that Apple wants to keep it in-house.

    There is no real conflict of interest in the classic sense.

    AI vision has multiple uses and of course, there are military uses among those, which may lead to ethical or moral issues.

    As for wanting to be the next Huawei. The answer is very much, yes. Being a world leader at every end of the ICT chain is where Apple would love to be. 
    Nope. Apple doens't need to be the "next" chinese knockoff brand. Nor does it want to a be puppet corporation controlled and brought to heel by the authoritarian single-party government. Get fucking real.

    And not doing the work for the military is, by definition, a change in the work. Your need to spin is bizarre. 
    The problem you have is you simply can't comprehend that Huawei is not the knock off brand to incessantly claim it is. Carry on if you wish but the reality is there should you wish to open your eyes.

    The work this company is doing is unlikely to change one iota. That is why Apple has bought them. What will probably change, is where and how it will be used. That isn't a change in the work and everything behind it.

    And, as you probably aren't aware, Huawei (along with heaps of other companies) is already present in this area.

    https://www.huawei.com/en/press-events/news/2019/11/huawei-atlas-500-top10-edge-computing-solutions-2019-award

    https://syncedreview.com/2019/11/18/huawei-tops-eth-zurich-2019-smartphone-deep-learning-rankings/

    http://www.hisilicon.com/en/Media-Center/News/2018Securitychina

    And if you want the whole shebang in Huawei's own words...

    https://www.cio.com/article/3442258/a-holistic-view-at-huaweis-full-stack-all-scenario-ai-strategy.html

    Knock-offs, you say?
    Smartphone deep learning rankings left out the iPhone. How can that be?

    You continue to make the case that Huawei is a State Owned Enterprise, though you would deny that, which is why they are able to offer such low cost telecom buildout. The WTO should penalize Huawei for this, just as other countries are penalized for state support, especially in the EU.

    Boris Johnson's plan to limit Huawei to non core in the UK is meeting a strong pushback, with some Tories advocating for complete elimination of Huawei from the UK in three years.


    I don't know but can confirm that another AI ranking I sometimes follow doesn't list Apple devices either. I imagine it has more to do with software/library issues than anything else. The absence isn't that important as I was talking about the full stack and Apple just isn't in that game.

    Huawei in the UK isn't relevant here. The U.S lost in its efforts to have them banned and is throwing a tantrum.

    I prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table. Believe me, tory MPs don't have that understanding and neither do Trump, Pompeo, Pence, Rubio and Co.

    Johnson had no real reason to listen to the U.S.




    BTW, when ever you add "Believe me", it is a tell that you are lying. The issue isn't technical, it is price vs national security, and Boris opts for something in between. Still, Parliament may have the last word.

    Huawei isn't getting any core 5G, so a loss for them as well as to the U.S. 
     
    The only reason Boris is pushing Huawei, and Germany for that matter, is they are worried that China might retaliate in the trade negotiations.

    I find it interesting that you "prefer technical decisions to be based on the people who actually have a deep understanding of the issues on the table", in which case, the EU would have chosen Nokia, Ericsson, Samsung and Siemens. Bit of course, it really isn't about technical issues, it's just about the low prices that Huawei offers, and China Trade, as a quid pro quo for allowing Huawei.

     What is nowhere to be seen are national security issues.


    Two issues, the primary being national security, and the secondary being the reliance on a state backed competitor in the marketplace.

    Ongoing argument in UK. A Bill has to be introduced and passed, and Tories likely want amendments, pushing for overall elimination of Huawei from networks.
    edited January 2020
    cat52
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  • Reply 36 of 76
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.

    Comparing China to Nazi Germany or suggesting that we are at war with them is an example of the impact of propaganda on the poorly informed.
    Hello, Chamberlain.
    fastasleepcat52
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  • Reply 37 of 76
    DAalseth said:
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.
    OTOH just think about in WWII if the best minds in Germany didn't help the government. Then the war might not have happened at all.
    In dictatorial state they have no choice, just like in China today.
    cat52
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  • Reply 38 of 76
    matrix077 said:
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Blind nationalism is cute. 

    “Helping their country” - Apple have businesses, employees and acquisitions in a long list of countries and pay taxes in even more. 

    Government contracts such as these pose an immediate conflict of interest. Want to be the next Huawei?


    I agree with him somewhat. Just think about in WW 2 if all the best minds in the US don't help the government it will be harder and more costly in lives to defeat the Nazi. All Chinese corporates will be imperative to help the CCP so this will put the US at a great disadvantage.
    But then again, we're currently looking at Huawei with mistrustful eyes because of that so there's that aspect involved as well.
    The day we're at world war with genocidal nazis, and Apple or Amercian companies don't help the war effort, you let me know. Until then you're just wringing your hands over nothing.
    Fair enough.
    edited January 2020
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  • Reply 39 of 76
    fastasleepfastasleep Posts: 6,487member
    The U.S. spends 1/3 of the total world defense spending and more than the next seven largest spenders combined.
    While we spend over half of our discretionary spending on defense, China spends it on their own people and development.  We respond by whining that they are a national security threat simply because they're passing us by as the world's largest economy.    One wonders if we will wise up before or after we go broke.
    You're drastically understating China's military budget and their rapid advances in military power, much of which is being developed with stolen IP from the US. Also their militarization and annexation of the South China sea complete with constructing and heavily arming new islands.

    And already pointed out by someone else, but worth repeating, their inhumane crackdown on their muslim minorities complete with 85 internment camps and recent actions don't exactly paint the picture of a Nice Guy China that you seem to keep pushing here for inexplicable reasons.
    tmaycat52
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  • Reply 40 of 76
    All these Silicon Valley firms just do not like doing anything to help their country!  But that the way they feel!
    Nationalism is horrible. A nation is the wrong unit to divvy up humanity. Patriotism is an excuse for extraordinary (extraordinarily bad) behavior.
    There’s nothing inherently wrong with rooting for the home team. I think you’re confusing being a cheerleader with being a Nazi or some such nonsense. Everyone who likes their country (where they live or where they came from) is a supporter of that country.
    cat52avon b7GG1
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