Aug 13 PowerMacs will NOT use new processors

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Out of curiosity, I Photoshopped the picture of the G4 daughter card that was published with the recent leaked PowerMac photos.



After some perspective correction I overlayed it onto another close-up picture of a G4 800 from a current Quicksilver. The dies match precisely. If this were a new core, especially on a 13 micron process, it'd have to be different, if only slightly, even if the size weren't smaller because of added cache etc.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 74
    dartblazerdartblazer Posts: 149member
    wanna post some pics of what you actually did?
  • Reply 2 of 74
    nebagakidnebagakid Posts: 2,692member
    can he? I thought you werent supposed to post pictors>
  • Reply 3 of 74
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    [quote]Originally posted by dartblazer:

    <strong>wanna post some pics of what you actually did?</strong><hr></blockquote>



    No pics, please. If timortis said it, then it's the truth.

    Personnaly i am ready to bet, that the new powermac still have the same chip on a mobo derivated from the Xserve with DDRAM (4 slots) , two ATA 100 controller and still the MPX 133 bus. The 7455 is not that old, he is only 6 months, and Mot do not upgrade usualy his chip in a significant way so early.



    who is ready to bet that the new powermac will be based upon the design of the xserve mobo with faster chips ? Let's vote !

    Perhaps we can expect a better video card
  • Reply 4 of 74
    mrsparklemrsparkle Posts: 120member
    Why couldn't you just use a different daughter card? There's nothing to say that the machine we saw was a production unit.
  • Reply 5 of 74
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,409member
    Considering that the pictured machine is a prototype date 2001 I wouldn't put much faith in any conclusions drawn from it. Back in 2001 the 7455 hadn't even been released yet.
  • Reply 6 of 74
    zazzaz Posts: 177member
    Unfortunately, to do the perspective correction and to get accurate results you need to have hard numbers on at least 2 reference points.



    As the picture provided you with none I am not sure simply altering the perspective of an image in PS and overlaying it can be qualified as accurate.



    Any resizing or perspective corrections are arbitrary in measure. And certainly, even with an educated guess one way or another the margin of error is wholly large enough to account for any changes in die size.



    I don't know one way or another what the result will be as far as what processor will be used. But this methodology is not accurate enough to draw the conclusions you have.



    Likewise, it is entirely possible they can use multiple versions of processors. They have done it before, such as with the DP 533s using 7410s and the 667/733 using 7450s.



    IF all your speculation were true, this could simply be the low-end CPU (say 7455) on a card, where as a higher end (7470?) is also employed on the same card but an another model.



    [ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
  • Reply 6 of 74
    outsideroutsider Posts: 6,008member
    Doesn't mean anything. The whole purpose of using daughter cards is to be able to use different processors on a single motherboard. For example, I recently got a 933MHz card and installed it in my 466MHz DA machine. Worked like a charm (after bringing in a 12v to the 4th post hole).
  • Reply 8 of 74
    brussellbrussell Posts: 9,812member
    The fact that Apollo just came out barely 6 months ago makes me think they haven't gotten around to the next step (die size shrink to .13) yet.
  • Reply 9 of 74
    keyboardf12keyboardf12 Posts: 1,379member
    You are assuming its a real _new_ prototype. like i have been saying before. apple is probably sending out C & D letters on all pics of all their protoypes past and present.
  • Reply 10 of 74
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,146member
    [quote]Originally posted by BRussell:

    <strong>The fact that Apollo just came out barely 6 months ago makes me think they haven't gotten around to the next step (die size shrink to .13) yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    They'd just about have to though. Can you see Apple moving to a new Process and architecture simultaneously? Scary if U ask me.
  • Reply 11 of 74
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    [quote]Originally posted by Programmer:

    <strong>Considering that the pictured machine is a prototype date 2001 I wouldn't put much faith in any conclusions drawn from it. Back in 2001 the 7455 hadn't even been released yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    right point... excactly what i thought before... why is that 2001 on that card..
  • Reply 12 of 74
    kidredkidred Posts: 2,402member
    We should be seeing the new MOT G4 that has a 166mhz process bus, allowing for 333mhz DDR next month. A recent redesign on the case to add some cooling (as noted in the leaked pics) indicate indeed a new mobo. They are working on a new mobo (a few actually) so we'll have to see if they are ready for this tower revision. There are also more then one prototype, this may or may not be the shipping version.



    Expect up to 1.4ghz if MOT can deliver but I'm waiting for this time next year for bigger and better POWERful things
  • Reply 13 of 74
    havanashavanas Posts: 99member
    [quote]Originally posted by Programmer:

    <strong>Considering that the pictured machine is a prototype date 2001 I wouldn't put much faith in any conclusions drawn from it. Back in 2001 the 7455 hadn't even been released yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    The daughter card is copyrighted 2001. My hamburger comes in a wrapper copyrighted 1999. Is my food 3 years old? These pictures are likely recent, fresh off the assembly line. Do you think anyone that is into macrumours could have just sat on these pictures for a year. Deciding only now two weeks before a new Powermac release to let them out?



    They could be old. Who knows.
  • Reply 14 of 74
    newkidnewkid Posts: 6member
    Great findings about the die size!



    However, we have to be cautious before jumping to conclusions: are these pictures really coming from a final product? There seems to be a general assumption that someone somewhere had access to a final product and quickly opened it to take a few shots...



    As of today, we have four pieces of evidence: a red board, a white case, half of the interior of a case, and a daughtercard. Right?



    Wrong! Look at the pictures inch by inch...



    1. The mobo color is not typical of a finished product.

    2. The larger card inside the case clearly sits at an angle with the mobo. Therefore, it is not inserted in a PCI slot. This supports an earlier post that this card is used for debugging purposes. Anyway, it looks like someone is holding it by the top the left corner (right hand has the camera, as for the daughtercard).

    3. The battery is missing (next to the video card, compare with the red board).

    4. The video card lacks its retaining screw.

    5. The DIP switch that we see next to the IDE connectors is not typically part of an Apple finished product, of a "closed" system.

    6. Curiosity: by comparing the two boards, a chip (or it could be jumpers) is present on the red board next to the dip switches, but is absent from the brown board: brown could be more recent or finished?

    7. Another curiosity: the AirPort connector is also different between the two boards (one black, one white). The two connectors (??? and airport) in that area seem to have switched positions. Was this done because of a case redesign?

    8. There is a white cable that seems plugged directly to the brown mobo (bottom left of picture) to a black connector not present on the red board. Could it be used for the speaker? This would means that the speaker is mounted on the door! There is a metal structure on the door in that area... Could it be related to airport? To bluetooth?

    9. On the picture of the daughtercard, we see in the background an empty case with one slot open (the video card). This suggests that whoever had access to this computer took it apart completely (not a quick job) or took a case and stuffed-it with parts.

    10. All of the IDE cables and even the power cable have been unplugged.

    11. The daughtercard has a lot of holes in it. This is somewhat suspicious and could point to a prototype. I would expect that this is where the last tweekings occur whenever new sample CPUs are tested.

    12. The 2001 copyright on the daughtercard is also a lead toward older products/prototypes. Maybe apple was only testing G4s then.

    13. The mobo does not look attached to the case as suggested by the empty hole next to the dip switches.

    14. The daugthercard (see the two black chips on the left) seems to interfere with the large cooling fan (inside the case) when the door is closed. This lead to a wrong daughtercard.

    15. We see a metal "post" on the red board next to the white connector a small green "floating" card (modem probably we see the brown connector on the red board) in the same area on the brown board. Why would a modem be on an old test board? It must be recent.

    16. There is no Apple logo on the front of the case.

    17. There is a gray connector below the two IDE controllers: speaker and power? Surely not Firewire and USB. It too is not connected.



    I hope some of this makes some sense... Anyway, a lot of reasons to be suspicious! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



    The PDF only talks about the case and nothing is said about the board. I think that someone did put parts together to indicate what is coming or to fool us! But there is a small chance that this is a shipping product. Probably, it is a finished case with a recent mobo and a test daughtercard... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />



    Edited for clarity and typos.



    [ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: newkid ]</p>
  • Reply 15 of 74
    junkyard dawgjunkyard dawg Posts: 2,801member
    Why all the extra cooling capacity if Apple is using the same chips? Doesn't make any sense.



    Extra vents front and back of the tower.

    More fans, including a "turbine" fan more powerful than any in the current QS.

    Mondo heatsink.



    No way all of this is for 1.2 GHz G4s, probably not even 1.4 GHz G4s. Something more dramatic is in preparation.
  • Reply 16 of 74
    jlljll Posts: 2,709member
    [quote]Originally posted by newkid:

    <strong>Great findings about the die size!



    However, we have to be cautious before jumping to conclusions: are these pictures really coming from a final product? There seems to be a general assumption that someone somewhere had access to a final product and quickly opened it to take a few shots...



    As of today, we have four pieces of evidence: a red board, a white case, half of the interior of a case, and a daughtercard. Right?



    Wrong! Look at the pictures inch by inch...



    1. The mobo color is not typical of a finished product.

    2. The larger card inside the case clearly sits at an angle with the mobo. Therefore, it is not inserted in a PCI slot. This supports an earlier post that this card is used for debugging purposes. Anyway, it looks like someone is holding it by the top the left corner (right hand has the camera, as for the daughtercard).

    3. The battery is missing (next to the video card, compare with the red board).

    4. The video card lacks its retaining screw.

    5. The DIP switch that we see next to the IDE connectors is not typically part of an Apple finished product, of a "closed" system.

    6. Curiosity: by comparing the two boards, a chip (or it could be jumpers) is present on the red board next to the dip switches, but is absent from the brown board: brown could be more recent or finished?

    7. Another curiosity: the AirPort connector is also different between the two boards (one black, one white). The two connectors (??? and airport) in that area seem to have switched positions. Was this done because of a case redesign?

    8. There is a white cable that seems plugged directly to the brown mobo (bottom left of picture) to a black connector not present on the red board. Could it be used for the speaker? This would means that the speaker is mounted on the door! There is a metal structure on the door in that area... Could it be related to airport? To bluetooth?

    9. On the picture of the daughtercard, we see in the background an empty case with one slot open (the video card). This suggests that whoever had access to this computer took it apart completely (not a quick job) or took a case and stuffed-it with parts.

    10. All of the IDE cables and even the power cable have been unplugged.

    11. The daughtercard has a lot of holes in it. This is somewhat suspicious and could point to a prototype. I would expect that this is where the last tweekings occur whenever new sample CPUs are tested.

    12. The 2001 copyright on the daughtercard is also a lead toward older products/prototypes. Maybe apple was only testing G4s then.

    13. The mobo does not look attached to the case as suggested by the empty hole next to the dip switches.

    14. The daugthercard (see the two black chips on the left) seems to interfere with the large cooling fan (inside the case) when the door is closed. This lead to a wrong daughtercard.

    15. We see a metal "post" on the red board next to the white connector a small green "floating" card (modem probably we see the brown connector on the red board) in the same area on the brown board. Why would a modem be on an old test board? It must be recent.

    16. There is no Apple logo on the front of the case.

    17. There is a gray connector below the two IDE controllers: speaker and power? Surely not Firewire and USB. It too is not connected.



    I hope some of this makes some sense... Anyway, a lot of reasons to be suspicious! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />



    The PDF only talks about the case and nothing is said about the board. I think that someone did put parts together to indicate what is coming or to fool us! But there is a small chance that this is a shipping product. Probably, it is a finished case with a recent mobo and a test daughtercard... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>



    Or you could just have read what AppleP58 (who submitted the pics) said. He said that it wasn't a final machine and that it was kind of old. The final will have a blue motherboard.
  • Reply 17 of 74
    bigcbigc Posts: 1,224member
    [quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:

    <strong>Why all the extra cooling capacity if Apple is using the same chips? Doesn't make any sense.



    Extra vents front and back of the tower.

    More fans, including a "turbine" fan more powerful than any in the current QS.

    Mondo heatsink.



    No way all of this is for 1.2 GHz G4s, probably not even 1.4 GHz G4s. Something more dramatic is in preparation.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    What extra cooling capacity, a 7lb heat sink doesn't say anything it is surface area of the heat sink that counts. I think someone said it better in that the extra cooling may be associated with the fact that its a protype machine stuck together to test certain portions of the system
  • Reply 18 of 74
    snoopysnoopy Posts: 1,901member
    The massive cooling says there is a lot of heat to be generated in this box. The models that come out next month may have G4s, but the enclosure is designed to take a red hot (almost literally) processor -- something Steve will call the G5. So, it seems certain the G5 will be announced next month, but probably not delivered. Does no one recall seeing the statement, "next generation G5 ready, Turbine Cooling?" Maybe this was just something made up for a posting. Anyway, the cooling sure makes me think of statements saying why Apple would not go with the IBM Power4 of Power5, or whatever they call it. The reason given was extreme heat generated by this processor. It would take massive cooling. Well?
  • Reply 19 of 74
    newkidnewkid Posts: 6member
    [quote]Originally posted by JLL:

    <strong>



    Or you could just have read what AppleP58 (who submitted the pics) said. He said that it wasn't a final machine and that it was kind of old. The final will have a blue motherboard.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    En fait, c'est MacBidouilie qui a sorti l'histore en premier! Dans leurs commentaires, on ne mentionnait pas du tout qu'il sagissait d'un prototype.



    PS: Can you point me to AppleP58's post: the search engine does not seem find anything. Cheers!
  • Reply 20 of 74
    macroninmacronin Posts: 1,136member
    I am still in doubt as to the validity of Apple58...



    For that matter, I am holding my rating on the chassis at Skeptical for now...



    But a few comments...



    The white cord going to the black connector on the bottom left corner of the main logic board shot - that is the cable which leads to the Airport antenna mounted in the side of the chassis door...



    The power connector for the main logic board is most likely the long rectangular one next to the HDD ports, upper left hand corner... I would think the grey connector (also next to the HDD ports) is for a ribbon cable which carries the power button/(assumed)headphone jack/speaker signals...



    As for those who, in other (aka - closed) threads, talked about the external drivebay section being able to rotate (for proper orientation when rackmounted), just look at it... It is not square...!



    I am hoping for something great, but I think I might still be holding out of a new chassis, and the fabled G5s...



    Or the rumoured Power4/5-derived xMac professional workstation... yeah, that would work out also...!



    And a decent damned OpenGL card!!!



    Come on Apple/nVidia co-developed OpenGL card...! (512MB DDR RAM/dual nv30 GPUs/ dual ADC ports)



    Guess I am waiting awhile...
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