Sorry to burst your bubble, but the PDF diagram of the rear panel is complete top to bottom and left to right. There is no fan exhaust port to be seen anywhere.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look at it! Almost the whole of the back panel is fitted with a perforated sheet, air flows through the whole thing. You're thinking inside the box, this is a redesign not constrained by current practice, Ive is good designer who does not base his work on other people's efforts.
<strong>Nope, all those crazy holes are for the turbine cooling to do its job.
Question is, does the new tower NEED such cooling, or is Apple just using it in vain?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well if thats the case, they need some new mechanical engineers to design the cooling system or they better make it waterproof so I can put mine outside.
<strong>I don't think that many people have Quicksilver here. They are really noisy, so if Apple can make them silent, it will be a good thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You newbies don't know from loud Macs! My dual 800 Quicksilver is a good 20db quieter than my Mac II was in 1988. It sounded more like something from Hoover than Apple.
I have a QuickSilver (DP-1GHz) and it's almost silent, especially next to my Athlon XP 1700+ box. The Athlon sounds like a wind tunnel! I bought the QS just as MacWorld opened in New York this month. I'm sick of waiting for the "next big thing" and hoping against hope that Apple will release the killer G5 with a 333MHz fsb, blah blah blah...
Screw it. I'm getting a killer machine right now! Everyone said, "Wait just one more month, for the new PowerMacs in August". And now, yet again, its sounding like no new PowerMacs. Or perhaps just a minor upgrade. Fsck that, I'm running the new Dual-GHz, and my next PowerMac will be the second revision of the G5 (and NOT a G5 in name only - not an upgraded G4 that Apple simply decides to tag as "G5").
If Apple just make a more silent cooling it will be fine for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
well Steve has always hated fan noise
the original 1984 mac had no internal hdd in part because it would have required (gasp) a fan...
vetoed by SJ (supported by mktg due to no hdd = lower $, ergo sales leverage)
plus the orwellian wintels weren't just ugly and grey, but noisy... another "think different" advertising advantage for audio/ergonomic design lovers
even if this case cooling could support single CPU daughter-card's with only a buick grille worth of heat sink, the "stop-gap chip now, g5(?) in spring" theory still leaves room for a hotter processor later...
but are you going to mount your own fan with this 2003 cpu? not very apple-like to require you to do more surgery than d/c swap...
maybe the fan won't enable unless it detects >140F or the presence of a POWER5...
of course, then it would need to detect the RDF and turn off so Steve couldn't hear it spin
but i do think we'll get a 'quieter' fan... remember the patent thread with the pismo-like latch?
one of the secondary diagrams was for a "new" type of bidirectional fan (2 axis cooling)
Look at it! Almost the whole of the back panel is fitted with a perforated sheet, air flows through the whole thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, there will be very little air flow with that "design." If you ever had a physics course or a fluid dynamics course, you would know that.
[quote]<strong>You're thinking inside the box, this is a redesign not constrained by current practice, Ive is good designer who does not base his work on other people's efforts.
Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good designers, engineers, and scientists learn from those who went before. Einstein's work was intimately informed by the work of Maxwell, Ampere, Henry, Newton, and others. Had he ignored his predecessors, today he would be just another dead European male rather than the Man of the 20th Century.
BTW - what part of Montana? I have wanted to move out there since I first saw it, while working @ Yellowstone for a summer... Bozeman seems like a good spot to me...
But I still think the FireGL X1 is THE card needed for high-end Mac 3D work... Unless nVidia has something better to offer...! I just want to see a real high-end 3d card come out for the Mac at the same time as it does for the PC...
First PC card manufacturer who can put out a concurrent release high-end OpenGL card for both platforms should have Mac users lined up around the corner for them... And it is time for high-end boards to come out for the Mac, what with the Mac version of Maya claiming 25% of A|ws current user base... Not bad for an app which has been released on the Mac for less than a year, and has had 6+ years of sales on other platforms...
And again, I DO NOT think the PDF is real at all...! I think it is a total fake created by some poor shmuck looking for attention...
I think that if we get a new case, it will follow the more rounded angularity of the TiBook & Xserve units...
Time will tell...
Question though, what will happen if Auguest 5th comes and goes, with no Mac goodness...?!? Gnashing & grinding of teeth, bitching & moaning of opinions...
I'll tell you what happens, we will all still be here, griping about Apple...
You newbies don't know from loud Macs! My dual 800 Quicksilver is a good 20db quieter than my Mac II was in 1988. It sounded more like something from Hoover than Apple. <hr></blockquote>
You know that my Classic and my Color Classic (mystic) and my 2 Cubes (and my compaq PIV 1.7) are together more silent than my Quicksilver.
Actually, there will be very little air flow with that "design." If you ever had a physics course or a fluid dynamics course, you would know that.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, generally increasing cross-sectional area will increase the air-flow, the fans will be ducted, the inlet and outlet need'nt be. It also allows for a lower air speed, leading to lower noise, and potentially (can't see the whole structure clearly in the pictures) reduced turbulence, also leading to lower noise and greater air-flow.
BTW I have taught postgraduate physics courses.
[quote]
<strong>
Good designers, engineers, and scientists learn from those who went before. Einstein's work was intimately informed by the work of Maxwell, Ampere, Henry, Newton, and others. Had he ignored his predecessors, today he would be just another dead European male rather than the Man of the 20th Century.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, of course it was informed by his predecessors, but it wasn't an extension of it, it was entirely new work. Look what happened to Oliver Heaviside when he told people they could'nt extend their designs for cable transmission systems from the short lengths they had used to the transatlantic cable, they had to add inductance rather than reduce it. (I have a piece of that cable on my desk).
I'm no chip engineer, but I have a vague idea that fabs can optimise their processes for low heat/power consumption or they can optimise for higher clockspeeds and pay the penalty in the form of higher heat production and power consumption.
If this is correct, then it might be the case (ahem) that the extra cooling in this prototype box is to allow for a new (final?) generation of hot-rodded G4s.
Much as I'd like to see a POWER4 lite this August, I'm inclined to guess that 2003 is going to be the year that things turn around on the hardware front.
It also allows for a lower air speed, leading to lower noise, and potentially (can't see the whole structure clearly in the pictures) reduced turbulence, also leading to lower noise and greater air-flow.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only problem with lower turbulence is in a heat exchanger system you want turbulence. It creates more efficient heat exchange if designed correctly.
Chemical engineers take quite a bit of care to ensure optimal flow when designing heat exchangers for that very reason as it can help reduce costs.
Question is has the tower been designed to be quieter or a heat exchange monster. The two really are rather mutually exclusive unfortunately.
Only problem with lower turbulence is in a heat exchanger system you want turbulence. It creates more efficient heat exchange if designed correctly.
Chemical engineers take quite a bit of care to ensure optimal flow when designing heat exchangers for that very reason as it can help reduce costs.
Question is has the tower been designed to be quieter or a heat exchange monster. The two really are rather mutually exclusive unfortunately.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point, but I was thinking of the flow as it enters/exits the case, where noise would be most obtrusive, as opposed to over the heat sink(s) itself, where you would want turbulence.
Comments
g-news
<strong>
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the PDF diagram of the rear panel is complete top to bottom and left to right. There is no fan exhaust port to be seen anywhere.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Look at it! Almost the whole of the back panel is fitted with a perforated sheet, air flows through the whole thing. You're thinking inside the box, this is a redesign not constrained by current practice, Ive is good designer who does not base his work on other people's efforts.
Michael
<strong>
There is no fan exhaust port to be seen anywhere.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Right, and I for one have no idea where the carburator is going to go.
Come on, man, those internal shots would be impossible to fake. The entire back panel is perforated.
Or how about this crazy notion: no fan at all, a la the Cube.
Question is, does the new tower NEED such cooling, or is Apple just using it in vain?
<strong>Nope, all those crazy holes are for the turbine cooling to do its job.
Question is, does the new tower NEED such cooling, or is Apple just using it in vain?</strong><hr></blockquote>
If Apple just make a more silent cooling it will be fine for me.
<strong>Nope, all those crazy holes are for the turbine cooling to do its job.
Question is, does the new tower NEED such cooling, or is Apple just using it in vain?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well if thats the case, they need some new mechanical engineers to design the cooling system or they better make it waterproof so I can put mine outside.
<strong>I don't think that many people have Quicksilver here. They are really noisy, so if Apple can make them silent, it will be a good thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You newbies don't know from loud Macs! My dual 800 Quicksilver is a good 20db quieter than my Mac II was in 1988. It sounded more like something from Hoover than Apple.
Screw it. I'm getting a killer machine right now! Everyone said, "Wait just one more month, for the new PowerMacs in August". And now, yet again, its sounding like no new PowerMacs. Or perhaps just a minor upgrade. Fsck that, I'm running the new Dual-GHz, and my next PowerMac will be the second revision of the G5 (and NOT a G5 in name only - not an upgraded G4 that Apple simply decides to tag as "G5").
<strong>
If Apple just make a more silent cooling it will be fine for me.</strong><hr></blockquote>
well Steve has always hated fan noise
the original 1984 mac had no internal hdd in part because it would have required (gasp) a fan...
vetoed by SJ (supported by mktg due to no hdd = lower $, ergo sales leverage)
plus the orwellian wintels weren't just ugly and grey, but noisy... another "think different" advertising advantage for audio/ergonomic design lovers
even if this case cooling could support single CPU daughter-card's with only a buick grille worth of heat sink, the "stop-gap chip now, g5(?) in spring" theory still leaves room for a hotter processor later...
but are you going to mount your own fan with this 2003 cpu? not very apple-like to require you to do more surgery than d/c swap...
maybe the fan won't enable unless it detects >140F or the presence of a POWER5...
of course, then it would need to detect the RDF and turn off so Steve couldn't hear it spin
but i do think we'll get a 'quieter' fan... remember the patent thread with the pismo-like latch?
one of the secondary diagrams was for a "new" type of bidirectional fan (2 axis cooling)
** looks inside current box to examine fan
hmmm... mine blows, but that's for other reasons
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
ATHLON + no fan + no heat sink = breakfast
<a href="http://www.handyscripts.co.uk/trubador_egg.htm"; target="_blank">how to cook an egg with XP</a>
mmmm... bacon
[edit image added]
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: curiousuburb ]</p>
<strong>
Look at it! Almost the whole of the back panel is fitted with a perforated sheet, air flows through the whole thing.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, there will be very little air flow with that "design." If you ever had a physics course or a fluid dynamics course, you would know that.
[quote]<strong>You're thinking inside the box, this is a redesign not constrained by current practice, Ive is good designer who does not base his work on other people's efforts.
Michael</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good designers, engineers, and scientists learn from those who went before. Einstein's work was intimately informed by the work of Maxwell, Ampere, Henry, Newton, and others. Had he ignored his predecessors, today he would be just another dead European male rather than the Man of the 20th Century.
BTW - what part of Montana? I have wanted to move out there since I first saw it, while working @ Yellowstone for a summer... Bozeman seems like a good spot to me...
But I still think the FireGL X1 is THE card needed for high-end Mac 3D work... Unless nVidia has something better to offer...! I just want to see a real high-end 3d card come out for the Mac at the same time as it does for the PC...
First PC card manufacturer who can put out a concurrent release high-end OpenGL card for both platforms should have Mac users lined up around the corner for them... And it is time for high-end boards to come out for the Mac, what with the Mac version of Maya claiming 25% of A|ws current user base... Not bad for an app which has been released on the Mac for less than a year, and has had 6+ years of sales on other platforms...
And again, I DO NOT think the PDF is real at all...! I think it is a total fake created by some poor shmuck looking for attention...
I think that if we get a new case, it will follow the more rounded angularity of the TiBook & Xserve units...
Time will tell...
Question though, what will happen if Auguest 5th comes and goes, with no Mac goodness...?!? Gnashing & grinding of teeth, bitching & moaning of opinions...
I'll tell you what happens, we will all still be here, griping about Apple...
But we will all still be using our Macs!
You newbies don't know from loud Macs! My dual 800 Quicksilver is a good 20db quieter than my Mac II was in 1988. It sounded more like something from Hoover than Apple.
You know that my Classic and my Color Classic (mystic) and my 2 Cubes (and my compaq PIV 1.7) are together more silent than my Quicksilver.
... newbies... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
<strong>
Actually, there will be very little air flow with that "design." If you ever had a physics course or a fluid dynamics course, you would know that.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, generally increasing cross-sectional area will increase the air-flow, the fans will be ducted, the inlet and outlet need'nt be. It also allows for a lower air speed, leading to lower noise, and potentially (can't see the whole structure clearly in the pictures) reduced turbulence, also leading to lower noise and greater air-flow.
BTW I have taught postgraduate physics courses.
[quote]
<strong>
Good designers, engineers, and scientists learn from those who went before. Einstein's work was intimately informed by the work of Maxwell, Ampere, Henry, Newton, and others. Had he ignored his predecessors, today he would be just another dead European male rather than the Man of the 20th Century.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, of course it was informed by his predecessors, but it wasn't an extension of it, it was entirely new work. Look what happened to Oliver Heaviside when he told people they could'nt extend their designs for cable transmission systems from the short lengths they had used to the transatlantic cable, they had to add inductance rather than reduce it. (I have a piece of that cable on my desk).
Michael
I'm no chip engineer, but I have a vague idea that fabs can optimise their processes for low heat/power consumption or they can optimise for higher clockspeeds and pay the penalty in the form of higher heat production and power consumption.
If this is correct, then it might be the case (ahem) that the extra cooling in this prototype box is to allow for a new (final?) generation of hot-rodded G4s.
Much as I'd like to see a POWER4 lite this August, I'm inclined to guess that 2003 is going to be the year that things turn around on the hardware front.
<strong>
It also allows for a lower air speed, leading to lower noise, and potentially (can't see the whole structure clearly in the pictures) reduced turbulence, also leading to lower noise and greater air-flow.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Only problem with lower turbulence is in a heat exchanger system you want turbulence. It creates more efficient heat exchange if designed correctly.
Chemical engineers take quite a bit of care to ensure optimal flow when designing heat exchangers for that very reason as it can help reduce costs.
Question is has the tower been designed to be quieter or a heat exchange monster. The two really are rather mutually exclusive unfortunately.
<strong>
Only problem with lower turbulence is in a heat exchanger system you want turbulence. It creates more efficient heat exchange if designed correctly.
Chemical engineers take quite a bit of care to ensure optimal flow when designing heat exchangers for that very reason as it can help reduce costs.
Question is has the tower been designed to be quieter or a heat exchange monster. The two really are rather mutually exclusive unfortunately.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good point, but I was thinking of the flow as it enters/exits the case, where noise would be most obtrusive, as opposed to over the heat sink(s) itself, where you would want turbulence.
Michael