Come on Apple/nVidia co-developed OpenGL card...! (512MB DDR RAM/dual nv30 GPUs/ dual ADC ports)
Guess I am waiting awhile...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. The Radeon9700 looks like the ticket. And it seems that ATI is finally hiring competent engineers to write their drivers, rather than letting inexperienced co-op students do it (note: I'm not slighting co-ops, but they don't have the experience to build such critical pieces of software without careful guidance). An engineer that I used to work with is on the job, and that makes me happy.
As for hardware, the new ATI is a real killer and should smoke anything currently available including all the vaunted "professional OpenGL cards".
Another thought - seems unlikely, but what if the extra cooling capacity is because you can put more drives into this case? I know, you're already slamming the Reply button to tell me it would be cooling overkill just because you can put more drives in the front of the case, but it's still something to consider I think.
Also, let's not go too overboard here. Even if everybody's right, and the big cooling increase is for bigger better badder faster processors - there's nobody telling us that case will actually be used for anything. It could be 100% pure prototype. We don't know, do we?
Having lived through many, many MacWorlds and seen how long it usually takes Apple to get something going - I'm going to have to say we will definitely not see anything come August that needs to take advantage of a cooling system like that, and we probably won't see that case, either. DDR and a mild speed bump for our current G4s, sure. But not anything more than that. I doubt the ATi 9700 will be available either.
I would love to see Apple prove me wrong, but it seems like every time I say that, they fail to prove me wrong. So don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed. Sorry to break up the RDF.
[quote]6. There is no Apple logo on the front of the case. <hr></blockquote>
My 2002 QS doesn't have one either.
[quote]Anyway, the cooling sure makes me think of statements saying why Apple would not go with the IBM Power4 of Power5, or whatever they call it. The reason given was extreme heat generated by this processor. It would take massive cooling. Well? <hr></blockquote>
Yes, not I don't think this year. This case may be in preperation for it tho. But by this time next year expect a POWER4-core from IBM in the towers.
<strong>Having lived through many, many MacWorlds and seen how long it usually takes Apple to get something going - I'm going to have to say we will definitely not see anything come August that needs to take advantage of a cooling system like that, and we probably won't see that case, either.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't follow your logic here... how do you know how long they've been working on "it" (whatever "it" may be)? Apple's security has been damn tight for a couple of years now, and getting tighter all the time, so what makes you think you'd know how long they have been working on the "next big thing"? MacWorld visitations have nothing to do with it, and product introductions are having less and less to do with MacWorlds.
I think I'm the only one on these boards that likes it
I'm planning on getting a new computer soon...I don't really want another AIO....I'm looking for a nice tower.....if this august update is a biggie...then I'll be set for years to come.
If its a meager, good but could be better, upgrade then I'll probably wait a bit longer
key things that I want to see in whatever is about to be released(regardless of what processor is in there)
faster RAM(DDR in particular...but I could do without)
faster FSB
and thats about it....I want the next tower to not suffer from the same bottlenecks previous towers have.
but I don't know...I really just want something that can understand the binary language of moisture vaporators...and can speak botchi.
Hah. Nice. Those darn botchi machines.. Why are they so darn slow though.. I mean.. Well, something that I am also looking for is the Powerbook update. I am looking forward to the Powermac update, but what I am in the market is for a better Powerbook. Now, I know that is not likely until January, but I can hope. At least a tower update will be a hint of what is to come.. If they used the G4 but DDR and a faster bus etc, maybe January *could* introduce a new processor not only for the Powermacs but the Powerbooks as well. Here's to hoping.
Meh, I like the white case too... I don't see what is so wrong with it (or is it the case that one person doesn't like it and everyone else follows?)...
Though I just bought a G4/550 upgrade for my Beige box, giving it some more life... My rev A beige g3 is an extension of me and it is just too hard to let it go Next year will be the year I get a new tower...
However, we have to be cautious before jumping to conclusions: are these pictures really coming from a final product? There seems to be a general assumption that someone somewhere had access to a final product and quickly opened it to take a few shots...
As of today, we have four pieces of evidence: a red board, a white case, half of the interior of a case, and a daughtercard. Right?
Wrong! Look at the pictures inch by inch...
......
I hope some of this makes some sense... Anyway, a lot of reasons to be suspicious! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
The PDF only talks about the case and nothing is said about the board. I think that someone did put parts together to indicate what is coming or to fool us! But there is a small chance that this is a shipping product. Probably, it is a finished case with a recent mobo and a test daughtercard... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
IMHO, the pictures of the new Macs leaked last week are not new Macs, prototypes, or case mods. It is hard to make heads or tails of the interior shot. But, the exterior shot and the accompanying PDF are fabrications.
Considerable effort went into drawing the diagrams, so lack of time cannot explain the obvious goofs in the PDF. Compare it to a shipping G4. In particular look at the diagram of the back. You will notice that the things toward the top of a G4 are toward the bottom of the drawing, and vice versa. Got an explanation for that? Well, how about this: where is the exhaust fan? This thing is supposed to have a wicked cooling system, yet there is no indication of a fan on the rear! For extra points and the lead in the contest, where would you put the fan?
The bottom line is that it is poorly crafted hoax.
<hr></blockquote>
Perhaps. But one Apple is going ape over to get pulled from any public view. Somehow I don't think they pay millions for lawyers to demand removal of hoax's.
I think that it is definatly possible that the pictures are hoaxes...>I don't personally believe they are...but an adept photoshop wizard with the right resources an time could certainly whip the pictures up.
but as zaz pointed out...apple doesn't tend to go apepoo on hoaxes...unless they are trying to through us off....maybe the g5 sphere is real!
<strong>Considering that the pictured machine is a prototype date 2001 I wouldn't put much faith in any conclusions drawn from it. Back in 2001 the 7455 hadn't even been released yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did it actually say Prototype 2001 or something like copyright 2001... There is a bit of a difference
ou know I was reading through these posts and it really did dawn on me.. I admit those pictures of that new tower look really real but as I sit back and reflect on it, it realy wouldnt surprise me if they were a really good hoax... I dont have musch proof to back this up but sheesh the box is ugly for one thing, and the comments about the board are quite interesting...
Hmmm
I guess we will soon see! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
This is no hoax, the question is, what significance does the prototype have?
The daughter card has a 2001 date on it. Not exactly inspiring. The more I think about this, it makes me suspect that perhaps this is one of many prototypes for the Quicksilver Powermacs, and this one lost out. Remember that the Quicksilvers had much beefier cooling systems than their predessors.
What about the DDR? Well perhaps at the time of the Quicksilvers, Moto was promising Apple to have the new G4s ready with on-die controllers for DDR RAM (7470? I forget the correct number designation). So Moto fu[ks up, tells Apple it will be another 9 months or so before such G4s can be fabbed in volume, and so Apple goes with the more conventional Quicksilver tower we saw.
Remember that Apple's hardware team is constantly putting together prototypes of possible Powermac models, all outfitted with different moto CPUs that may or may not be ready in time for the next official revision. So for each CPU, there may be like 5-10 prototypes, and depending on which CPU Moto can figure out how to fab, Apple chooses the best prototype based on that CPU.
This might just be a prototype that used a CPU Moto couldn't figure out how to fab, and so it was never produced. Somehow it fell into the "wrong" (right?) hands and we've gotten these beautiful pics of what could have been.
Of course the problem with all this is that this prototype posesses some features that are newer, like the smaller powersupply that is supposedly similar to the xserve's. Also, the two expandable drive bays, that is a feature that is independent of CPU design, and if Apple wanted to offer that feature, well they would simply do it, damn whatever CPU Moto pulls outta their ass.
One last question and I'll stop my rambling: Is is possible that this test chassis is being sent out to test some other feature of the mobo, say, PCI reliability, and that for such testing Apple would use a pre-existing CPU? This could explain the older CPU....but then, wouldn't it be important to test PCI performance and reliability with the CPU that will be used? Ack! I don't know much about how all this development and testing is done, perhaps someone else can shed some light on it.
The LAST thing we need is more nitpicking about which wire is here and what screw is missing there. Clearly this is for real, you can't photoshop a motherboard, especially at all those crazy angles that guy took those shots at! His BAD photography actually helps to make it MORE convincing, because a fake would probably have better photography.
Well, I'll end my rambling and let someone who knows something add something to this thread full of baseless speculation about nothing.
We don't even know if the photos are real, because they don't exist any more? No links, no uploads, they are gone! May as well have never existed. At least that's what Apple want's us to think. Hoax my ass!!!
IMHO, the pictures of the new Macs leaked last week are not new Macs, prototypes, or case mods. It is hard to make heads or tails of the interior shot. But, the exterior shot and the accompanying PDF are fabrications.
Considerable effort went into drawing the diagrams, so lack of time cannot explain the obvious goofs in the PDF. Compare it to a shipping G4. In particular look at the diagram of the back. You will notice that the things toward the top of a G4 are toward the bottom of the drawing, and vice versa. Got an explanation for that? Well, how about this: where is the exhaust fan? This thing is supposed to have a wicked cooling system, yet there is no indication of a fan on the rear! For extra points and the lead in the contest, where would you put the fan?
The picture of the case is a very bad composite image. There are at least three orignals of varying resolutions used to fabricate it.
The bottom line is that it is poorly crafted hoax.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're wrong. the design does make sense. As far as I can remember, the diagram only shows the part of the back where the connectors are, not the whole back panel. the internals/mobo have been completely rearanged, which demands things to be placed differently on the outside as well. The red mobo from ebay had the same basic layout, with the pci ports on top, and it's generally percieved as being real. I'm not ruling out the possibillity that it might be a hoax, but if it is it's really well done and thougt through. I'm talking about the pics (internal and external) not the pdf.
Just a thouht:
This layout might be for a completely new case. They just put el capitan/quicksilver panels on it to save money and/or mask the design (they still had to special order the front panel though). if this is the case, I think it's meant for january and we'll see a different colour (white?) el capitan in august.
If the new case is that far off in the future, it might be just one of several ideas being tested, and we might never see it at all.
If we get something like this in aug. I think it won't be QS coloured when it's finished.
Fools, that CPu card only had one chip anyway, thus it either used an "old chip/daughtercard" or was a low end configuration.
The higher end machine with faster and dual CPUs may well use a new chip. And frankly, I don't think the 7455 scales any further than 1266MHz, which would mean that Apple would have to max it out in the next machines..unlikely.
[quote]And frankly, I don't think the 7455 scales any further than 1266MHz<hr></blockquote>
My understanding was that the 7455 had multipliers up to 16 -- half-steps to 8 and then full steps the rest of the way. So what does that mean for scale? (I'm bad at math. ) <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
You're wrong. the design does make sense. As far as I can remember, the diagram only shows the part of the back where the connectors are, not the whole back panel. the internals/mobo have been completely rearanged, which demands things to be placed differently on the outside as well. The red mobo from ebay had the same basic layout, with the pci ports on top, and it's generally percieved as being real. I'm not ruling out the possibillity that it might be a hoax, but if it is it's really well done and thougt through. I'm talking about the pics (internal and external) not the pdf.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the PDF diagram of the rear panel is complete top to bottom and left to right. There is no fan exhaust port to be seen anywhere.
[quote]<strong>Just a thouht:
This layout might be for a completely new case. They just put el capitan/quicksilver panels on it to save money and/or mask the design (they still had to special order the front panel though). if this is the case, I think it's meant for january and we'll see a different colour (white?) el capitan in august. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Here is the thing. When somebody tells you that they inside information, it is up to them to get it right. It is not your responsibility to rationalize the obvious discrepencies. It might be one thing if the discrepencies were minor, but here they are blaring.
Now you are trying to save this hoax by speculating that the case is a mule. However, the person who put it on the Internet knows whether or not it was a mule. He said it is the new case. If it is not the new case, then he is perpetrating a hoax.
[quote]<strong>If the new case is that far off in the future, it might be just one of several ideas being tested, and we might never see it at all.
If we get something like this in aug. I think it won't be QS coloured when it's finished.</strong><hr></blockquote>
To repeat: the "case" is a digital fabrication and a very bad one.
Comments
<strong>And a decent damned OpenGL card!!!
Come on Apple/nVidia co-developed OpenGL card...! (512MB DDR RAM/dual nv30 GPUs/ dual ADC ports)
Guess I am waiting awhile...</strong><hr></blockquote>
Nope. The Radeon9700 looks like the ticket. And it seems that ATI is finally hiring competent engineers to write their drivers, rather than letting inexperienced co-op students do it (note: I'm not slighting co-ops, but they don't have the experience to build such critical pieces of software without careful guidance). An engineer that I used to work with is on the job, and that makes me happy.
As for hardware, the new ATI is a real killer and should smoke anything currently available including all the vaunted "professional OpenGL cards".
Just a thought...
Also, let's not go too overboard here. Even if everybody's right, and the big cooling increase is for bigger better badder faster processors - there's nobody telling us that case will actually be used for anything. It could be 100% pure prototype. We don't know, do we?
Having lived through many, many MacWorlds and seen how long it usually takes Apple to get something going - I'm going to have to say we will definitely not see anything come August that needs to take advantage of a cooling system like that, and we probably won't see that case, either. DDR and a mild speed bump for our current G4s, sure. But not anything more than that. I doubt the ATi 9700 will be available either.
I would love to see Apple prove me wrong, but it seems like every time I say that, they fail to prove me wrong. So don't get your hopes up and you won't be disappointed. Sorry to break up the RDF.
My 2002 QS doesn't have one either.
[quote]Anyway, the cooling sure makes me think of statements saying why Apple would not go with the IBM Power4 of Power5, or whatever they call it. The reason given was extreme heat generated by this processor. It would take massive cooling. Well? <hr></blockquote>
Yes, not I don't think this year. This case may be in preperation for it tho. But by this time next year expect a POWER4-core from IBM in the towers.
<strong>Having lived through many, many MacWorlds and seen how long it usually takes Apple to get something going - I'm going to have to say we will definitely not see anything come August that needs to take advantage of a cooling system like that, and we probably won't see that case, either.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I don't follow your logic here... how do you know how long they've been working on "it" (whatever "it" may be)? Apple's security has been damn tight for a couple of years now, and getting tighter all the time, so what makes you think you'd know how long they have been working on the "next big thing"? MacWorld visitations have nothing to do with it, and product introductions are having less and less to do with MacWorlds.
I think I'm the only one on these boards that likes it
I'm planning on getting a new computer soon...I don't really want another AIO....I'm looking for a nice tower.....if this august update is a biggie...then I'll be set for years to come.
If its a meager, good but could be better, upgrade then I'll probably wait a bit longer
key things that I want to see in whatever is about to be released(regardless of what processor is in there)
faster RAM(DDR in particular...but I could do without)
faster FSB
and thats about it....I want the next tower to not suffer from the same bottlenecks previous towers have.
but I don't know...I really just want something that can understand the binary language of moisture vaporators...and can speak botchi.
Though I just bought a G4/550 upgrade for my Beige box, giving it some more life... My rev A beige g3 is an extension of me and it is just too hard to let it go
From what I have read on the ATI website, the only new card for Macs is the 9000...
The 9700 is for PCs, as is the FireGL X1 (which would be cool if the drivers were really really good in Maya)...
I am interested in the next-gen nVidia, and in whatever rumoured Apple/nVidia co-developed card might surface...
But, 256MB on the FireGL X1 seems pretty sweet...
Although the card that is gonna sell for Apple customers is the one with DUAL ADC ports...!
Gotta have dual Cinema HD Displays, without the uglyness of a convertor/power brick hanging around...
<strong>Great findings about the die size!
However, we have to be cautious before jumping to conclusions: are these pictures really coming from a final product? There seems to be a general assumption that someone somewhere had access to a final product and quickly opened it to take a few shots...
As of today, we have four pieces of evidence: a red board, a white case, half of the interior of a case, and a daughtercard. Right?
Wrong! Look at the pictures inch by inch...
......
I hope some of this makes some sense... Anyway, a lot of reasons to be suspicious! <img src="graemlins/bugeye.gif" border="0" alt="[Skeptical]" />
The PDF only talks about the case and nothing is said about the board. I think that someone did put parts together to indicate what is coming or to fool us! But there is a small chance that this is a shipping product. Probably, it is a finished case with a recent mobo and a test daughtercard... <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
Edited for clarity and typos.
[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: newkid ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
IMHO, the pictures of the new Macs leaked last week are not new Macs, prototypes, or case mods. It is hard to make heads or tails of the interior shot. But, the exterior shot and the accompanying PDF are fabrications.
Considerable effort went into drawing the diagrams, so lack of time cannot explain the obvious goofs in the PDF. Compare it to a shipping G4. In particular look at the diagram of the back. You will notice that the things toward the top of a G4 are toward the bottom of the drawing, and vice versa. Got an explanation for that? Well, how about this: where is the exhaust fan? This thing is supposed to have a wicked cooling system, yet there is no indication of a fan on the rear! For extra points and the lead in the contest, where would you put the fan?
The interior shot seems to defy explanation. Compare it to a <a href="http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html"; target="_blank">shipping G4</a>.
The picture of the case is a very bad composite image. There are at least three orignals of varying resolutions used to fabricate it.
The bottom line is that it is poorly crafted hoax.
[QB]
The 9700 is for PCs, as is the FireGL X1 (which would be cool if the drivers were really really good in Maya)...
<hr></blockquote>
Here ya go:
<a href="http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0207/18.radeon9700.php"; target="_blank">ATI's high-end Radeon 9700 Mac-bound this fall</a>
[quote] Posted by Mr. Me:
The bottom line is that it is poorly crafted hoax.
<hr></blockquote>
Perhaps. But one Apple is going ape over to get pulled from any public view. Somehow I don't think they pay millions for lawyers to demand removal of hoax's.
[ 07-27-2002: Message edited by: zaz ]</p>
but as zaz pointed out...apple doesn't tend to go apepoo on hoaxes...unless they are trying to through us off....maybe the g5 sphere is real!
<strong>Considering that the pictured machine is a prototype date 2001 I wouldn't put much faith in any conclusions drawn from it. Back in 2001 the 7455 hadn't even been released yet.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Did it actually say Prototype 2001 or something like copyright 2001... There is a bit of a difference
Hmmm
I guess we will soon see! <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>Could the massive amounts of cooling be used to use the CPU without a heatsink? Would there be any reason to do this?
Just a thought...
LOL!
You never had a course in physics--did you?
The daughter card has a 2001 date on it. Not exactly inspiring. The more I think about this, it makes me suspect that perhaps this is one of many prototypes for the Quicksilver Powermacs, and this one lost out. Remember that the Quicksilvers had much beefier cooling systems than their predessors.
What about the DDR? Well perhaps at the time of the Quicksilvers, Moto was promising Apple to have the new G4s ready with on-die controllers for DDR RAM (7470? I forget the correct number designation). So Moto fu[ks up, tells Apple it will be another 9 months or so before such G4s can be fabbed in volume, and so Apple goes with the more conventional Quicksilver tower we saw.
Remember that Apple's hardware team is constantly putting together prototypes of possible Powermac models, all outfitted with different moto CPUs that may or may not be ready in time for the next official revision. So for each CPU, there may be like 5-10 prototypes, and depending on which CPU Moto can figure out how to fab, Apple chooses the best prototype based on that CPU.
This might just be a prototype that used a CPU Moto couldn't figure out how to fab, and so it was never produced. Somehow it fell into the "wrong" (right?) hands and we've gotten these beautiful pics of what could have been.
Of course the problem with all this is that this prototype posesses some features that are newer, like the smaller powersupply that is supposedly similar to the xserve's. Also, the two expandable drive bays, that is a feature that is independent of CPU design, and if Apple wanted to offer that feature, well they would simply do it, damn whatever CPU Moto pulls outta their ass.
One last question and I'll stop my rambling: Is is possible that this test chassis is being sent out to test some other feature of the mobo, say, PCI reliability, and that for such testing Apple would use a pre-existing CPU? This could explain the older CPU....but then, wouldn't it be important to test PCI performance and reliability with the CPU that will be used? Ack! I don't know much about how all this development and testing is done, perhaps someone else can shed some light on it.
The LAST thing we need is more nitpicking about which wire is here and what screw is missing there. Clearly this is for real, you can't photoshop a motherboard, especially at all those crazy angles that guy took those shots at! His BAD photography actually helps to make it MORE convincing, because a fake would probably have better photography.
Well, I'll end my rambling and let someone who knows something add something to this thread full of baseless speculation about nothing.
We don't even know if the photos are real, because they don't exist any more? No links, no uploads, they are gone! May as well have never existed. At least that's what Apple want's us to think. Hoax my ass!!!
<strong>
IMHO, the pictures of the new Macs leaked last week are not new Macs, prototypes, or case mods. It is hard to make heads or tails of the interior shot. But, the exterior shot and the accompanying PDF are fabrications.
Considerable effort went into drawing the diagrams, so lack of time cannot explain the obvious goofs in the PDF. Compare it to a shipping G4. In particular look at the diagram of the back. You will notice that the things toward the top of a G4 are toward the bottom of the drawing, and vice versa. Got an explanation for that? Well, how about this: where is the exhaust fan? This thing is supposed to have a wicked cooling system, yet there is no indication of a fan on the rear! For extra points and the lead in the contest, where would you put the fan?
The interior shot seems to defy explanation. Compare it to a <a href="http://www.apple.com/powermac/expansion.html"; target="_blank">shipping G4</a>.
The picture of the case is a very bad composite image. There are at least three orignals of varying resolutions used to fabricate it.
The bottom line is that it is poorly crafted hoax.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're wrong. the design does make sense. As far as I can remember, the diagram only shows the part of the back where the connectors are, not the whole back panel. the internals/mobo have been completely rearanged, which demands things to be placed differently on the outside as well. The red mobo from ebay had the same basic layout, with the pci ports on top, and it's generally percieved as being real. I'm not ruling out the possibillity that it might be a hoax, but if it is it's really well done and thougt through. I'm talking about the pics (internal and external) not the pdf.
Just a thouht:
This layout might be for a completely new case. They just put el capitan/quicksilver panels on it to save money and/or mask the design (they still had to special order the front panel though). if this is the case, I think it's meant for january and we'll see a different colour (white?) el capitan in august.
If the new case is that far off in the future, it might be just one of several ideas being tested, and we might never see it at all.
If we get something like this in aug. I think it won't be QS coloured when it's finished.
The higher end machine with faster and dual CPUs may well use a new chip. And frankly, I don't think the 7455 scales any further than 1266MHz, which would mean that Apple would have to max it out in the next machines..unlikely.
G-News
My understanding was that the 7455 had multipliers up to 16 -- half-steps to 8 and then full steps the rest of the way. So what does that mean for scale? (I'm bad at math. ) <img src="graemlins/hmmm.gif" border="0" alt="[Hmmm]" />
<strong>
You're wrong. the design does make sense. As far as I can remember, the diagram only shows the part of the back where the connectors are, not the whole back panel. the internals/mobo have been completely rearanged, which demands things to be placed differently on the outside as well. The red mobo from ebay had the same basic layout, with the pci ports on top, and it's generally percieved as being real. I'm not ruling out the possibillity that it might be a hoax, but if it is it's really well done and thougt through. I'm talking about the pics (internal and external) not the pdf.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Sorry to burst your bubble, but the PDF diagram of the rear panel is complete top to bottom and left to right. There is no fan exhaust port to be seen anywhere.
[quote]<strong>Just a thouht:
This layout might be for a completely new case. They just put el capitan/quicksilver panels on it to save money and/or mask the design (they still had to special order the front panel though). if this is the case, I think it's meant for january and we'll see a different colour (white?) el capitan in august. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Here is the thing. When somebody tells you that they inside information, it is up to them to get it right. It is not your responsibility to rationalize the obvious discrepencies. It might be one thing if the discrepencies were minor, but here they are blaring.
Now you are trying to save this hoax by speculating that the case is a mule. However, the person who put it on the Internet knows whether or not it was a mule. He said it is the new case. If it is not the new case, then he is perpetrating a hoax.
[quote]<strong>If the new case is that far off in the future, it might be just one of several ideas being tested, and we might never see it at all.
If we get something like this in aug. I think it won't be QS coloured when it's finished.</strong><hr></blockquote>
To repeat: the "case" is a digital fabrication and a very bad one.