I mean this is all a little bit foolish. The idea of claiming that "Apple" as if only apple focused Its manufacturing in Asia. More or less every manufacturing company in the freaking universe sources heavily from china and east Asia and surprise surprise all of them are getting impacted from this. Apple like the rest of America's major companies have been outsourcing for one reason or another for years and this is definitely a side effect of putting too many eggs in one basket. I know Apple has attempted and experimented with diversifying its supply sourcing with some success and I simply expect this will accelerate given these current disruptions. All in all my point being that global companies outsource, mostly to east Asia, everyone is in the same boat, and I expect some changes in the future.
Actually he’s right and I said that without using half the available bandwidth in the USA. Apples reliance on China is totally motivated by greed and totally ignores the horrors of the regime in China.
I think, not being able to locally produce goods, was a self fullfilling prophecy of asshole (it) managers back then driven by squeezing the last penny out of almost loss making products.
But we have several examples of attempts to build in America that failed. It wasn’t because of profitability or margins, it was because of product quality and expertise in manufacturing, which the United States lacked because it refuse to invest in people and plant. Granting massive tax breaks clearly wasn’t enough. The US should have invested in tech and it didn’t.
It should have invested in 5G but it didn’t. And now it should be investing in clean energy and it isn’t. Imaging how that will work out.
Wouldn't that be the job of private enterprise rather than the "gubment" to invest in plant and people?
FWIW I think you're ignoring the valuable tech that our government has funded: Siri, GPS, the internet, Unix (Multics) to name some major ones, and the US agencies were early in on things like maps, the TOR browser, even a company who mitigates the damage from DDoS attacks. Heck the US government had a hand in funding nearly all the root technology that makes the iPhone a smartphone from location (GPS) to its touch display, search and communication thru the internet, and creation of what became Apple's voice-activated assistant.
Well you kind of answered your own question. If the USA hadn’t invested in internet tech and software, funding university work on OS, browsers, IP, etc, it likely wouldn’t be leading Internet and software everywhere but China (which blocked US software firms like Google, Facebook, etc).
The point here was that the US didn’t similarly back or support high tech manufacturing.
I think, not being able to locally produce goods, was a self fullfilling prophecy of asshole (it) managers back then driven by squeezing the last penny out of almost loss making products.
But we have several examples of attempts to build in America that failed. It wasn’t because of profitability or margins, it was because of product quality and expertise in manufacturing, which the United States lacked because it refuse to invest in people and plant. Granting massive tax breaks clearly wasn’t enough. The US should have invested in tech and it didn’t.
It should have invested in 5G but it didn’t. And now it should be investing in clean energy and it isn’t. Imaging how that will work out.
Wouldn't that be the job of private enterprise rather than the "gubment" to invest in plant and people?
FWIW I think you're ignoring the valuable tech that our government has funded: Siri, GPS, the internet, Unix (Multics) to name some major ones, and the US agencies were early in on things like maps, the TOR browser, even a company who mitigates the damage from DDoS attacks. Heck the US government had a hand in funding nearly all the root technology that makes the iPhone a smartphone from location (GPS) to its touch display, search and communication thru the internet, and creation of what became Apple's voice-activated assistant.
Well you kind of answered your own question. If the USA hadn’t invested in internet tech and software, funding university work on OS, browsers, IP, etc, it likely wouldn’t be leading Internet and software everywhere but China (which blocked US software firms like Google, Facebook, etc).
The point here was that the US didn’t similarly back or support high tech manufacturing.
What kind of manufacturing do you think the US Government should put in place? I'm quite serious.
if you come back with "more tax credits' then you're asking for the lowest common denominator and that's where some foreign locale will always cost less, taxes or not. Personally I think to drive American companies to invest in their own manufacturing plants for their own products then make it stupid expensive to import those products from China in particular. More tariffs and only a rare exception, certainly not for big tech products. That of course comes with a separate set of problems.
DED, have you ever reached out to the WSJ editors or even Mickle directly to call them out? I would think (or hope) readers of the WSJ would appreciate another perspective, but I fear they are not likely to find these AI articles.
I think it's hard to argue with the following points:
1. Manufacturing the iPhone at its current scale takes a huge number of workers. 2. China has those workers, along with needed infrastructure to support manufacturing 3. Only India has the number of workers, but their infrastructure sucks 4. There is a hard limit on the extent to which humans can be replaced by machines. GM and Apple learned this in the 80s, Tesla learned it with the Model 3; Darth Sidious learned it with the droid invasion of Naboo.
So, yeah, Apple can't really avoid manufacturing in china.
You seriously trying to compare the state of automation in the 1980s to today’s state of automation?
Apple could invest $200 billion into developing robotic manufacturing tech and not only use it to produce iPhones but also sell it as technology to others, or Apple could blow $200 billion on stock buy backs. The former requires effort, the latter is easy.
That was Elon Musk's attitude --- surely it's improved since the 80s! Surely I know better than the entire global automotive industry!
Oops. Not so much.
Sounds like you're another Musk. Go ahead and try it. Let us know how it works out. Prove me wrong, kid, prove me wrong!
Man, you just gave me the biggest compliment of my life, calling me Musk and especially calling me kid!
As for being able to build cars with robots, back in 1998, I visited a Mercedes plant in Tuscaloosa, AL (where they built SUVs). I saw with my own eyes a completely robotic assembly line building vehicles in front of me with no intervention by the humans. Again, this was in 1998.
So, if Mercedes could build SUVs in 1998 (in fact, they started it in 1996 or 1997) with robotic manufacturing lines, I'm sure the technology is ready now (22 years later) to build iPhones with robots. Of course, it requires research and investment. The positive thing about it would be that Apple could open a new source of revenue being a robotic manufacturing technology provider and licenser for other companies.
I think, not being able to locally produce goods, was a self fullfilling prophecy of asshole (it) managers back then driven by squeezing the last penny out of almost loss making products.
"IT managers" don't run manufacturing facilities and certainly don't decide where to build them.
I don't see how history could haven't worked out much differently. The US as a mature, industrialized nation has a very expensive labor market; China, over the past few decades, has millions of well-educated people willing to work for nearly nothing. The choice to use Chinese manufacturing isn't about squeezing pennies, it's starkly black and white.
Tim Cook has been interviewed repeatedly on the matter of building in the US, and as DED states, Cook has repeatedly stated that it isn’t the cost of labor in the US, it’s non-existence of manufacturing infrastructure of education and skill that prevents Apple from building their products in the US.
I think, not being able to locally produce goods, was a self fullfilling prophecy of asshole (it) managers back then driven by squeezing the last penny out of almost loss making products.
"IT managers" don't run manufacturing facilities and certainly don't decide where to build them.
I don't see how history could haven't worked out much differently. The US as a mature, industrialized nation has a very expensive labor market; China, over the past few decades, has millions of well-educated people willing to work for nearly nothing. The choice to use Chinese manufacturing isn't about squeezing pennies, it's starkly black and white.
Tim Cook has been interviewed repeatedly on the matter of building in the US, and as DED states, Cook has repeatedly stated that it isn’t the cost of labor in the US, it’s non-existence of manufacturing infrastructure of education and skill that prevents Apple from building their products in the US.
I don't think we disagree. My point (which I didn't expound on) is that in China you can hire thousands of well educated engineers and pay them wages that a fast food worker would require in the US. The economy/culture of China was/is such that children and young adults bust their butts to learn industrial skills that will pay them a good living in China that is a pittance in the US. It's not obvious what a company like Apple could practically do to change that in the US. This would be the equivalent of going to elementary schools and promising kids 6-figure salaries if they pursue a certain educational path.
DED accuses Mickle of being selective and then does it himself...
“The WSJ hired a sportswriter with scant tech industry experience to interpret Apple's global supply chain”
Previous commenters: "DED's articles are too long! He spends too much time telling us things that occurred years ago, or we don't care about, or we already know!"
[DED stops mentioning Tripp Mickle's work history]
Today's commenters: "DED didn't mention that the author of the article he criticized used to be a sports reporter!"
Actually he’s right and I said that without using half the available bandwidth in the USA. Apples reliance on China is totally motivated by greed and totally ignores the horrors of the regime in China.
Except you ignore what has been mentioned so many, many times (going back to Jobs) that it's not about the labor rate, which is rising as China gets wealthier, but rather their ability to scale up and down, and the components industry which is based almost entirely in Asia.
Comments
Does this mean we won’t see you comment on any subsequent editorials? Hmm.
if you come back with "more tax credits' then you're asking for the lowest common denominator and that's where some foreign locale will always cost less, taxes or not. Personally I think to drive American companies to invest in their own manufacturing plants for their own products then make it stupid expensive to import those products from China in particular. More tariffs and only a rare exception, certainly not for big tech products. That of course comes with a separate set of problems.
Got it.
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2019-66
So it's hardly surprising they're a little wary of risking that again.
As for being able to build cars with robots, back in 1998, I visited a Mercedes plant in Tuscaloosa, AL (where they built SUVs). I saw with my own eyes a completely robotic assembly line building vehicles in front of me with no intervention by the humans. Again, this was in 1998.
So, if Mercedes could build SUVs in 1998 (in fact, they started it in 1996 or 1997) with robotic manufacturing lines, I'm sure the technology is ready now (22 years later) to build iPhones with robots. Of course, it requires research and investment. The positive thing about it would be that Apple could open a new source of revenue being a robotic manufacturing technology provider and licenser for other companies.
[DED stops mentioning Tripp Mickle's work history]
Today's commenters: "DED didn't mention that the author of the article he criticized used to be a sports reporter!"
This is what you miss by skimming the articles like this one:
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/01/28/wsj-reported-apple-was-headed-for-a-slump-before-one-of-the-biggest-rallies-ever
Curiously, the image you posted appears to be the same one used in that linked article.
Did you have a momentary brain fade, or am I misinterpreting your comment?
DED columns are filled with reasoned out argument for why the pundits, clickbaiters, and pro trolls are willfully ignorant.