Seriously, the education needed is as simple as giving them an example like :
Employee: I'm sorry, but you have a bit of a temperature; so I can't let you in. Customer: Oh, that's normal for me. Employee: Great, so you've had this checked with a doctor? What's your normal temperature? Customer: It's X degrees. Employee: *compares with the devices; and makes a decision*
Speaking of naivity and ignorance.
That's not a good solution. People are liars. You can not trust what anybody claims or says without sufficient, acceptable proof.
Using your method, many people who lie and actually have the virus would be let in, just because they claim that it's "normal" for them.
I wouldn't let any of them in. They would have to immediately vacate the premises or be shot, if they decide to get violent, which we have seen multiple cases of.
apple ][ said: The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
Confirmed flu deaths in the United States each year range from 4,000 to 15,000. Covid-19 currently has a confirmed death total over 75,000. You're trying to use estimated flu death totals to compare to confirmed deaths, then saying estimated Covid-19 death totals shouldn't be believed.
apple ][ said: The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
Confirmed flu deaths in the United States each year range from 4,000 to 15,000. Covid-19 currently has a confirmed death total over 75,000. You're trying to use estimated flu death totals to compare to confirmed deaths, then saying estimated Covid-19 death totals shouldn't be believed.
Those figures I posted are not estimates, they're from 2017. They're past tense. The deaths have already happened. They're not estimates and they're not predictions.
And I never said anything about covid 19 death totals not being believed, but since you are bringing it up, then yes, the figures are not completely accurate, as different states use completely different criteria for their counting methods and what they include as actual covid deaths.
Seriously, the education needed is as simple as giving them an example like :
Employee: I'm sorry, but you have a bit of a temperature; so I can't let you in. Customer: Oh, that's normal for me. Employee: Great, so you've had this checked with a doctor? What's your normal temperature? Customer: It's X degrees. Employee: *compares with the devices; and makes a decision*
Speaking of naivity and ignorance.
That's not a good solution. People are liars. You can not trust what anybody claims or says without sufficient, acceptable proof.
Using your method, many people who lie and actually have the virus would be let in, just because they claim that it's "normal" for them.
I wouldn't let any of them in. They would have to immediately vacate the premises or be shot, if they decide to get violent, which we have seen multiple cases of.
If I were you I'd go easy on advocating that people acting stupid should be shot to protect society.
I never said that people acting stupid should be shot, because at least half of the population would disappear tomorrow if that were the case.
But I am definitely saying that people acting stupid and being violent should be shot if there's a clear self defense situation, that's plain common sense.
I never said that people acting stupid should be shot, because at least half of the population would disappear tomorrow if that were the case.
But I am definitely saying that people acting stupid and being violent should be shot if there's a clear self defense situation, that's plain common sense.
Hey, some would also claim it common sense to let healthy people do stuff like entering stores to buy food; instead of judging them based on the same type of ignorance and fear that in the past has caused whole f*cking genocides.
Hey, some would also claim it common sense to let healthy people do stuff like entering stores to buy food; instead of judging them based on the same type of ignorance and fear that in the past has caused whole f*cking genocides.
Again, that's not for me to decide.
Whatever rules Apple comes up with, everybody will have to abide by them.
If somebody does not meet the criteria, then that person is clearly not within normal, healthy range, as defined by Apple, not me.
First what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”. Frankly I really doubt there will be a lot of public tolerance to having their temperature taken.
Second does social distancing really accomplished anything if people are wearing masks? I’ve been wondering about this a lot lately. I don’t mean actual touching here but rather the stupidity of the 6 foot rule.
apple ][ said: Those figures I posted are not estimates, they're from 2017. They're past tense. The deaths have already happened. They're not estimates and they're not predictions.
Like I said, confirmed flu deaths in the United States per year range from 4,000 to 15,000. 2017 did not have 50,000 confirmed flu deaths. It might have had 50,000 estimated flu deaths, but that can't be used as a comparison to confirmed Covid-19 deaths.
Hey, some would also claim it common sense to let healthy people do stuff like entering stores to buy food; instead of judging them based on the same type of ignorance and fear that in the past has caused whole f*cking genocides.
Again, that's not for me to decide.
Whatever rules Apple comes up with, everybody will have to abide by them.
If somebody does not meet the criteria, then that person is clearly not within normal, healthy range, as defined by Apple, not me.
Back in the day there were stores in the US that had signs saying that my people weren't allowed to enter; you good with that too, or do you perhaps understand that that whole "whatever they say goes"-attitude can't always fly when based on ignorance?
apple ][ said: Those figures I posted are not estimates, they're from 2017. They're past tense. The deaths have already happened. They're not estimates and they're not predictions.
Like I said, confirmed flu deaths in the United States per year range from 4,000 to 15,000. 2017 did not have 50,000 confirmed flu deaths. It might have had 50,000 estimated flu deaths, but that can't be used as a comparison to confirmed Covid-19 deaths.
Back in the day there were stores in the US that had signs saying that my people weren't allowed to enter; you good with that too, or do you perhaps understand that that whole "whatever they say goes"-attitude can't always fly when based on ignorance?
Actually, in this particular case, I'm ok with whatever Apple decides, as I trust them to make the right decision.
And I'm not ok with what "anybody" decides, as there are many that I do not trust, but you have to trust somebody, and I trust Apple, as I have done for a long time.
I suspect all retailing will look very different. Especially after this has continued, albeit at a less intense level, for a couple of years. People will have gotten used to ordering things online be default. Before this started malls and department stores were in a major slump. This is going to accelerate it dramatically. I’d give even odds that Apple gets out of the brick and mortar store business within five or so years. Would not surprise me at all.
I agree that the virus will increase the trend to online shopping. But I think there are limits there -- particularly with high-cost, high-end merchandise such as what Apple sells. You can only tell so much from specs and product reviews and sometimes you just need to see it and touch it to know which product is the right one for you.
But that last -- "touching it" -- is a problem areas.
Like any virus the Corona is not just spread with coughs and sneezes but by inanimate vectors where people contaminate something by picking it up and the next person picking it up gets infected -- as well as the person after him and the person after him, and the....
I wonder if Apple will be monitoring their display products like a jeweler monitors his jewelry and, in this case, disinfect it immediately after the customer puts it down? Or, possibly, as implied by the story, they will attempt to disinfect the customer by asking them to use hand sanitizer as they enter the store.
Maybe the Apple Store would be better served by handing out gloves to each customer as they enter the store. But, I am reassured that Apple is taking their cues from S. Korea who, unlike the U.S., has managed the virus well.
First what happens to customers that normally run temperatures above “normal”. Frankly I really doubt there will be a lot of public tolerance to having their temperature taken.
Second does social distancing really accomplished anything if people are wearing masks? I’ve been wondering about this a lot lately. I don’t mean actual touching here but rather the stupidity of the 6 foot rule.
Not many people run over 100.4. Fringe case at best.
I gladly had my temp taken at the dentist and didn’t think twice about it. Being safe and courteous to others is my duty.
The 6’ rule isn’t stupid. Actual testing has shown it’s a minimum, as cough droplets easily travel to 9 and even 12’ with no mask. With is reduced but it all depends on the mask. 6’ seems reasonable at a min.
Wizard69 was specifically asking about requiring distance when everyone is already wearing a mask. I assume that the answer is that masks (especially the non-N95 masks we're all making do with) are far from fool proof. As someone else said it all about probabilities. Wearing a mask reduces the risk of transmission; standing 6 feet apart reduces the risk; etc.
I suspect it’s more about making people “feel” safer than actually be safer. All the homemade masks make me laugh. All the times that people touch them...to straighten them, is more likely for them to get contaminated (and the wearer infected) than going without.
Here’s what they were saying a few weeks ago. I suspect this is accurate. https://www.cpr.org/2020/02/28/colorado-is-sold-out-of-medical-masks-due-to-coronavirus-fears-dont-worry-you-dont-need-one/ “ I think almost everyone I've seen outside of the hospital, that's wearing these in public, don't even have them on properly," said Barron. "I think ends up happening is that it gives them a false sense of security and then they don't realize that their hands are far more likely to be the way they're going to catch this."
That bullshit was just part of the U.S. marginalizing the virus hoax as well as protecting the supplies of PPE needed by healthcare workers because we were unable to obtain real masks ourselves. Our president and vice-president still refuse to wear one.
But, once they realized they could get Americans to make and wear DIY crap they were all in.
Other countries wore real masks from the beginning -- which is one of the reasons how they contained the virus.
You will think very differently about these rules when someone(s) around had died due to Covid. I am in Asia and I heard more in US had died because of Covid19 than Sep 11
That's just media fear mongering and a pretty useless comparison in my opinion.
More than sept 11? Another comparison that I've seen the garbage media make is D-Day, lol.
In 2017 in the USA:
Heart Disease 647,457 - - - OMG that's 215 Sept 11s every single year, and just from heart disease!
Cancer 599,108 - - - OMG that's 199 Sept 11s every single year!
Accidents 169,936 - - - OMG, that's 56 Sept 11s every single year! People should be more careful so that they don't get into accidents. Maybe we should shut down society completely and save at least 170,000 lives this year
The plain old regular Flu and pneumonia 55,672 - - - OMG, that's like 18 Sept 11s every single year! If everybody were confined to their homes 24-7-365 and never went outside, nobody would catch the Flu anymore and we wouldn't have tens of thousands dying from the Flu each year.
I don't see anybody getting all hysterical about those deaths.
It's important to keep things in perspective. So far, all of the death totals for the virus are far, far lower than many of the insane, delusional and clueless predictions that have come from a variety of sources.
I'd say we're doing pretty good.
Oh! So you actually believe the nonsense coming from Trump. Don't you realize he cares only about his re-election -- and could care less about your life?
With the exception of accidents and flu, those other deaths do not carry the risk of killing other people. Plus the long term effects are still unknown. There are reports of clotting issues, breathing issues, some people getting strokes, and now children are getting some weird complications. If this is overreacting, then why is our president and Vice President getting tested repeatedly especially now after his Valet and Stephen Miller’s wife who is an aide to Pence sick with the virus. Apple is going to follow the CDC’s guidelines and not the White House’s. If you don’t believe that it’s necessary to follow the CDC, then do not go to an Apple Store as it will upset you.
I never wrote or implied that Apple is overreacting.
Oh! So you actually believe the nonsense coming from Trump. Don't you realize he cares only about his re-election -- and could care less about your life?
Those are my own thoughts, what Trump says or doesn't say doesn't have any effect on my own thoughts. I agree with him on certain issues and disagree on others. There is nobody that I agree with 100%.
seanismorris said: I suspect it’s more about making people “feel” safer than actually be safer. All the homemade masks make me laugh. All the times that people touch them...to straighten them, is more likely for them to get contaminated (and the wearer infected) than going without.
It's about reducing risk, not eliminating risk. Masks aren't impenetrable, but provide a percentage of risk reduction. So does social distancing. So does limiting the number of times you go out into public spaces with other people. So does washing your hands for 20 seconds. So does not touching your face. When you add all those things together, it becomes significant.
Absolutely awesome response. Living entails risk, including risks you accept through your own actions, risks that you are subjected to through the actions of others, environmental risks, societal risks, and of course random being-in-the-wrong-place-at-the-wrong-time risks that seemingly come out of nowhere. It’s virtually impossible to eliminate risks, but you can reduce some of them through directed action. Scientifically you’d think that we’d always apply a risk-vs-reward calculus to decision making, but that’s not how humans operate. Humans are heavily influenced by emotions and self-centered motivation and rarely consider the risk-vs-reward equation when living life in the moment.
All you can really do is try to reduce the risks that you have some degree of control over. You, and society in general, can attempt to motivate through compassion, reward, or fear of punishment the risks that others can inflict on you. But due to human nature it’s never going to be universally adopted, so some level of human-induced risk will always be there no matter the motivations and good intentions. The world is not perfect and humans are A big part of the imperfection. It’s up to you to navigate life and its inherent risks, some of which you recognize and others that can hit you out of the blue. However, you can’t simply shut down and eliminate all risks if you want to go on living.
Comments
That's not a good solution. People are liars. You can not trust what anybody claims or says without sufficient, acceptable proof.
Using your method, many people who lie and actually have the virus would be let in, just because they claim that it's "normal" for them.
I wouldn't let any of them in. They would have to immediately vacate the premises or be shot, if they decide to get violent, which we have seen multiple cases of.
And I never said anything about covid 19 death totals not being believed, but since you are bringing it up, then yes, the figures are not completely accurate, as different states use completely different criteria for their counting methods and what they include as actual covid deaths.
Also, people with guns not believing in science is too much of a thing already: https://boingboing.net/2020/04/16/look-at-these-photos-and-video.html
But I am definitely saying that people acting stupid and being violent should be shot if there's a clear self defense situation, that's plain common sense.
Whatever rules Apple comes up with, everybody will have to abide by them.
If somebody does not meet the criteria, then that person is clearly not within normal, healthy range, as defined by Apple, not me.
Bye-bye! Enjoy your Pixel.
https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/comparing-covid-19-deaths-to-flu-deaths-is-like-comparing-apples-to-oranges/
The CDC estimate for Flu deaths 2019-2020 is 24,000-62,000.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/preliminary-in-season-estimates.htm
And I'm not ok with what "anybody" decides, as there are many that I do not trust, but you have to trust somebody, and I trust Apple, as I have done for a long time.
I agree that the virus will increase the trend to online shopping. But I think there are limits there -- particularly with high-cost, high-end merchandise such as what Apple sells. You can only tell so much from specs and product reviews and sometimes you just need to see it and touch it to know which product is the right one for you.
But that last -- "touching it" -- is a problem areas.
Or, possibly, as implied by the story, they will attempt to disinfect the customer by asking them to use hand sanitizer as they enter the store.
But, I am reassured that Apple is taking their cues from S. Korea who, unlike the U.S., has managed the virus well.
That bullshit was just part of the U.S. marginalizing the virus hoax as well as protecting the supplies of PPE needed by healthcare workers because we were unable to obtain real masks ourselves. Our president and vice-president still refuse to wear one.
Oh! So you actually believe the nonsense coming from Trump. Don't you realize he cares only about his re-election -- and could care less about your life?
All you can really do is try to reduce the risks that you have some degree of control over. You, and society in general, can attempt to motivate through compassion, reward, or fear of punishment the risks that others can inflict on you. But due to human nature it’s never going to be universally adopted, so some level of human-induced risk will always be there no matter the motivations and good intentions. The world is not perfect and humans are A big part of the imperfection. It’s up to you to navigate life and its inherent risks, some of which you recognize and others that can hit you out of the blue. However, you can’t simply shut down and eliminate all risks if you want to go on living.