Chip maker TSMC confirms plan to open $12 billion factory in Arizona

Posted:
in General Discussion
Apple's processor manufacturing partner TSMC has officially announced that it will open an advanced semiconductor fabrication plant in Arizona, with the first batch of chips expected in 2024.

TSMC's headquarters in Hsinchu, Taiwan.
TSMC's headquarters in Hsinchu, Taiwan.


Following previous reports that TSMC was planning to open a new fabrication plant in the US, the chip maker has now confirmed that it will spend $12 billion building in Arizona.

"This US facility not only enables us to better support our customers and partners, it also gives us more opportunities to attract global talents," said the company in a statement.

"This project is of critical, strategic importance to a vibrant and competitive US semiconductor ecosystem that enables leading US companies to fabricate their cutting-edge semiconductor products within the United States and benefit from the proximity of a world-class semiconductor foundry and ecosystem," it continued.

The company says that facility construction is planned to start in 2021. It expects chip production will begin in the finished plant in 2024, but its $12 billion expenditure is to be spread over 2021 through 2029.

Taiwan-based TSMC makes Apple's A-series processors used in its iPhones and iPads, with the company expected to move to 5nm processors for the "iPhone 12" later this year. TSMC's new plant will be a 5nm fabrication facility, and so may also provide processors for the rumored ARM-based Macs when it gets going.

TSMC's move to produce more processors within the US follows years of technology companies looking to reduce their dependency on Taiwan and China. It also follows this week's news that President Trump has threatened to tax companies as an incentive to have them move production to the US.
seanj
«13

Comments

  • Reply 1 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,904member
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    edited May 2020 prismatics
  • Reply 2 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    So, why would TSMC want to build a plant in the U.S.?   Perhaps information from Reuters could shed some light on that:

    "While huge in terms of foreign investment in the United States, the plan is small by TSMC’s standards. For 2020, TSMC’s capex plan is $15-$16 billion.

    The Taiwanese chipmaker said the plan was to build the plant over nine years.
    ...

    A U.S. Commerce Department official said TSMC’s decision to locate the plant in the United States generated “good will” at the department, the drafter of a law that would, if implemented, severely restrict TSMC chip sales to Huawei.

    Credit Suisse analysts said proposed restrictions could threaten TSMC’s 14% of sales from Huawei, escalate U.S.-China tensions and delay the rollout of the next-generation 5G mobile network.

    “While it is hard to be certain, we believe that TSMC announcing a U.S. Fab could remove the threat of further Huawei restrictions in the very near-term at least,” JP Morgan analysts said in a note."


    Ok, got it:
    --  Trump gets a talking point for his re-election campaign
    --  TSMC makes a minimal investment over a decade while removing a serious political threat to their business.

    That's a win-win.  
    ... For now.

    ronncornchip
  • Reply 3 of 52
    lkrupplkrupp Posts: 9,472member
    I wonder how much money Apple is putting into this, if any. What percentage of a product must have U.S. sourced parts in order to slap a ‘Made in America’ label on it?
    cornchip
  • Reply 4 of 52
    dewmedewme Posts: 3,827member
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    PatchyThePirateV.2cornchipseanj
  • Reply 5 of 52
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,432member
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    edited May 2020 PatchyThePirateV.2seanjwatto_cobra
  • Reply 6 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.
    mobirdPatchyThePirateV.2
  • Reply 7 of 52
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.
    How anyone says that with a straight face during a completely botched pandemic responses is beyond me. You are living the fantasy for sure. 
  • Reply 8 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,904member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    Only IoT? Where did get that idea from?

    BTW, Trump has just sent the U.S into unknown territory with his actions on semiconductors and Huawei today. 

    edited May 2020 GeorgeBMacmuthuk_vanalingamronnprismatics
  • Reply 9 of 52
    SpamSandwichSpamSandwich Posts: 33,408member
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.
    How anyone says that with a straight face during a completely botched pandemic responses is beyond me. You are living the fantasy for sure. 
    Oh, you again. Goodbye, idiot troll. #YouAreNowBlocked.
    edited May 2020 PatchyThePirateV.2cornchipchristophb
  • Reply 10 of 52
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.
    How anyone says that with a straight face during a completely botched pandemic responses is beyond me. You are living the fantasy for sure. 
    Oh, you again. Goodbye, idiot troll. #YouAreNowBlocked.
    oh no... I have been told!
  • Reply 11 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?

    No, we know WHY you are against Huawei.   We just think its bullshit.

    As for this particular case -- why worry about being self sufficient in one product if you need a dozen more just to make it work?.   And, why would you choose a Chinese company if you are trying to secure yourself from China?   That's silly.
    edited May 2020 ronn
  • Reply 12 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.

    Waiting.....
    muthuk_vanalingamronnbaconstangrundhviddrdavid
  • Reply 13 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    dewme said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    I don't know the details, but I wonder why the US didn't invest in saving and retaining US companies like Fairchild Semiconductors and National Semiconductors if having in-country fabs was of strategic national importance? There is also a concern in the back of my head that no matter how close we think the US may be with a foreign country, politics can change in a heartbeat. Maybe it's because a quarter of the students in my advanced military training program for state-of-the-art systems (that are still front line) were Iranian. One day they were our dear classmates, the next day they were gone.
    Perhaps the US could do more to promote the interests of US citizens, as has been happening  since 2016.
    How anyone says that with a straight face during a completely botched pandemic responses is beyond me. You are living the fantasy for sure. 
    Oh, you again. Goodbye, idiot troll. #YouAreNowBlocked.

    No, just because he lives in the real world doesn't make him a troll.   Now the OP that he was responding to, now that's likely a different story.  
    muthuk_vanalingamronnbaconstangrundhviddrdavid
  • Reply 14 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    Only IoT? Where did get that idea from?

    BTW, Trump has just sent the U.S into unknown territory with his actions on semiconductors and Huawei today. 


    Yeh, like every failed dictator, Trump needs an enemy to distract his followers from his own failures.

    But, China has an easy answer to that nonsense:  Just cut the U.S. off from about a thousand other things we need -- including the medical supplies we need so desperately right now.   But, first up - they will likely stop importing U.S. farm goods -- again.  Then medical supplies and then chips & such -- including those from Taiwan.

    China seems to be getting tired of his bullshit -- like using national security as an excuse to start otherwise illegal trade wars.  His cult believe anything he says -- so he assumes that the rest of the world will too.   But, actually, they're mostly placating him and laughing at him.

    What an idiot:  in the middle of fighting a war against a pandemic he wants to resurrect a failed trade war!    I guess FoxNews told him to do it.

    Added:
    Well, actually, no need to speculate.  Reuters already published the Chinese response to Trump's stupidity:
    "The reaction from China was swift, with a report on Friday by China’s Global Times saying Beijing was ready to put U.S. companies on an “unreliable entity list,” as part of countermeasures in response to the new limits on Huawei.

    The measures include launching investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple Inc (AAPL.O), Cisco Systems Inc (CSCO.O) and Qualcomm Inc (QCOM.O), as well as suspending purchase of Boeing Co (BA.N) airplanes, the report said here citing a source."

    It's clear that China is done placating that fool and will hit us back in kind.   Thanks Trump!

    And also, from the Global Times:
    "The new restrictions on Huawei are a firm reminder that Taiwan cannot trust the US as a reliable business or economic partner, Tom Fowdy, a British political and international relations analyst, told the Global Times, noting that the White House pushed TSMC to invest in America, and then within hours of getting that is slapping restrictions on their business with Huawei.

    "That is extraordinarily dishonest business," he said."

    The U.S. used to hold itself to a higher standard.   Now, it seems Trump is dragging a once proud nation down into the sewer that he lives in.
    edited May 2020 ronnbaconstangrundhviddrdavid
  • Reply 15 of 52
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,432member
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?

    No, we know WHY you are against Huawei.   We just think its bullshit.

    As for this particular case -- why worry about being self sufficient in one product if you need a dozen more just to make it work?.   And, why would you choose a Chinese company if you are trying to secure yourself from China?   That's silly.
    LOL.

    Still clueless.

    TSMC is not a Chinese company, hence, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. 

    It is absolutely the case that China believes that Taiwan (the island of Formosa) belongs to them, but that is a long way from crushing Taiwan's democracy, which is what China wants to do, same as what they want to do to Hong Kong.
    canukstormpmcdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 16 of 52
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,432member

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    Only IoT? Where did get that idea from?

    BTW, Trump has just sent the U.S into unknown territory with his actions on semiconductors and Huawei today. 


    Yeh, like every failed dictator, Trump needs an enemy to distract his followers from his own failures.

    But, China has an easy answer to that nonsense:  Just cut the U.S. off from about a thousand other things we need -- including the medical supplies we need so desperately right now.   But, first up - they will likely stop importing U.S. farm goods -- again.  Then medical supplies and then chips & such -- including those from Taiwan.

    China seems to be getting tired of his bullshit -- like using national security as an excuse to start otherwise illegal trade wars.  His cult believe anything he says -- so he assumes that the rest of the world will too.   But, actually, they're mostly placating him and laughing at him.

    What an idiot:  in the middle of fighting a war against a pandemic he wants to resurrect a failed trade war!    I guess FoxNews told him to do it.

    Added:
    Well, actually, no need to speculate.  Reuters already published the Chinese response to Trump's stupidity:
    "The reaction from China was swift, with a report on Friday by China’s Global Times saying Beijing was ready to put U.S. companies on an “unreliable entity list,” as part of countermeasures in response to the new limits on Huawei.

    The measures include launching investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple Inc (AAPL.O), Cisco Systems Inc (CSCO.O) and Qualcomm Inc (QCOM.O), as well as suspending purchase of Boeing Co (BA.N) airplanes, the report said here citing a source."

    It's clear that China is done placating that fool and will hit us back in kind.   Thanks Trump!

    And also, from the Global Times:
    "The new restrictions on Huawei are a firm reminder that Taiwan cannot trust the US as a reliable business or economic partner, Tom Fowdy, a British political and international relations analyst, told the Global Times, noting that the White House pushed TSMC to invest in America, and then within hours of getting that is slapping restrictions on their business with Huawei.

    "That is extraordinarily dishonest business," he said."

    The U.S. used to hold itself to a higher standard.   Now, it seems Trump is dragging a once proud nation down into the sewer that he lives in.
    LOL.

    Again with the stupid;

    "The Global Times is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the CCP's People's Daily newspaper, commenting on international issues from a Nationalistic perspective".

    Global Times is the official mouthpiece of the CCP. and you are quoting it like it means something.
    jdb8167canukstormcornchipmobird
  • Reply 17 of 52
    avon b7avon b7 Posts: 5,904member
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    Only IoT? Where did get that idea from?

    BTW, Trump has just sent the U.S into unknown territory with his actions on semiconductors and Huawei today. 


    Yeh, like every failed dictator, Trump needs an enemy to distract his followers from his own failures.

    But, China has an easy answer to that nonsense:  Just cut the U.S. off from about a thousand other things we need -- including the medical supplies we need so desperately right now.   But, first up - they will likely stop importing U.S. farm goods -- again.  Then medical supplies and then chips & such -- including those from Taiwan.

    China seems to be getting tired of his bullshit -- like using national security as an excuse to start otherwise illegal trade wars.  His cult believe anything he says -- so he assumes that the rest of the world will too.   But, actually, they're mostly placating him and laughing at him.

    What an idiot:  in the middle of fighting a war against a pandemic he wants to resurrect a failed trade war!    I guess FoxNews told him to do it.

    Added:
    Well, actually, no need to speculate.  Reuters already published the Chinese response to Trump's stupidity:
    "The reaction from China was swift, with a report on Friday by China’s Global Times saying Beijing was ready to put U.S. companies on an “unreliable entity list,” as part of countermeasures in response to the new limits on Huawei.

    The measures include launching investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple Inc (AAPL.O), Cisco Systems Inc (CSCO.O) and Qualcomm Inc (QCOM.O), as well as suspending purchase of Boeing Co (BA.N) airplanes, the report said here citing a source."

    It's clear that China is done placating that fool and will hit us back in kind.   Thanks Trump!

    And also, from the Global Times:
    "The new restrictions on Huawei are a firm reminder that Taiwan cannot trust the US as a reliable business or economic partner, Tom Fowdy, a British political and international relations analyst, told the Global Times, noting that the White House pushed TSMC to invest in America, and then within hours of getting that is slapping restrictions on their business with Huawei.

    "That is extraordinarily dishonest business," he said."

    The U.S. used to hold itself to a higher standard.   Now, it seems Trump is dragging a once proud nation down into the sewer that he lives in.
    LOL.

    Again with the stupid;

    "The Global Times is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the CCP's People's Daily newspaper, commenting on international issues from a Nationalistic perspective".

    Global Times is the official mouthpiece of the CCP. and you are quoting it like it means something.
    If you are saying it is the official mouthpiece of the CCP (widely accepted fact), then it does, by definition, mean something. 

    It means a lot.
    GeorgeBMacronnbaconstangrundhvid
  • Reply 18 of 52
    tmaytmay Posts: 5,432member
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:

    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?
    Only IoT? Where did get that idea from?

    BTW, Trump has just sent the U.S into unknown territory with his actions on semiconductors and Huawei today. 


    Yeh, like every failed dictator, Trump needs an enemy to distract his followers from his own failures.

    But, China has an easy answer to that nonsense:  Just cut the U.S. off from about a thousand other things we need -- including the medical supplies we need so desperately right now.   But, first up - they will likely stop importing U.S. farm goods -- again.  Then medical supplies and then chips & such -- including those from Taiwan.

    China seems to be getting tired of his bullshit -- like using national security as an excuse to start otherwise illegal trade wars.  His cult believe anything he says -- so he assumes that the rest of the world will too.   But, actually, they're mostly placating him and laughing at him.

    What an idiot:  in the middle of fighting a war against a pandemic he wants to resurrect a failed trade war!    I guess FoxNews told him to do it.

    Added:
    Well, actually, no need to speculate.  Reuters already published the Chinese response to Trump's stupidity:
    "The reaction from China was swift, with a report on Friday by China’s Global Times saying Beijing was ready to put U.S. companies on an “unreliable entity list,” as part of countermeasures in response to the new limits on Huawei.

    The measures include launching investigations and imposing restrictions on U.S. companies such as Apple Inc (AAPL.O), Cisco Systems Inc (CSCO.O) and Qualcomm Inc (QCOM.O), as well as suspending purchase of Boeing Co (BA.N) airplanes, the report said here citing a source."

    It's clear that China is done placating that fool and will hit us back in kind.   Thanks Trump!

    And also, from the Global Times:
    "The new restrictions on Huawei are a firm reminder that Taiwan cannot trust the US as a reliable business or economic partner, Tom Fowdy, a British political and international relations analyst, told the Global Times, noting that the White House pushed TSMC to invest in America, and then within hours of getting that is slapping restrictions on their business with Huawei.

    "That is extraordinarily dishonest business," he said."

    The U.S. used to hold itself to a higher standard.   Now, it seems Trump is dragging a once proud nation down into the sewer that he lives in.
    LOL.

    Again with the stupid;

    "The Global Times is a daily tabloid newspaper under the auspices of the CCP's People's Daily newspaper, commenting on international issues from a Nationalistic perspective".

    Global Times is the official mouthpiece of the CCP. and you are quoting it like it means something.
    If you are saying it is the official mouthpiece of the CCP (widely accepted fact), then it does, by definition, mean something. 

    It means a lot.
    Yeah, it means it spreads propaganda and the CCP's official positions, but you can't really tell which is which until after the fact.

    Again, I think that the U.S. should disengage, and I don't care if the EU sticks it out in China, that's on them, but China will just drink the EU's milkshake anyway.
    canukstormmobirdwatto_cobra
  • Reply 19 of 52
    BeatsBeats Posts: 2,532member
    RE: Everyone

    What happened to the GTA Advanced building in Phoenix, Arizona? Why not just use that building? Maybe TSMC doesn't have to build anything?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 20 of 52
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 10,296member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    I imagine this would not have been possible without state and federal aid so the question on most people's lips is how much is involved.

    Long term, it is a reasonable strategy, even with the government helping out which is how it should be IMO. The control of IoT security has long been a concern to many, and the chipset supply chain has been the biggest worry of them all. It would make sense to have IoT chipsets fabbed locally along with phone SoCs etc. 

    Between now and 2024 there will be an incredible amount of IoT devices hitting the market. Far outnumbering phone chipsets. 
    You can't understand why I and others are against Huawei in our critical infrastructure, and why it is a National Security risk, but here you are, talking about security of our critical infrastructure, but only with regards to IoT.

    The U.S. needs secure manufacturing for leading edge ARM silicon, and while Taiwan is still independent of China (China disagrees with that), that may not always be the case. More to the point, why would the U.S. allow leading edge technology with dual purpose, military and civilian, to be readily available to our primary adversary?

    No, we know WHY you are against Huawei.   We just think its bullshit.

    As for this particular case -- why worry about being self sufficient in one product if you need a dozen more just to make it work?.   And, why would you choose a Chinese company if you are trying to secure yourself from China?   That's silly.
    LOL.

    Still clueless.

    TSMC is not a Chinese company, hence, Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company. 

    It is absolutely the case that China believes that Taiwan (the island of Formosa) belongs to them, but that is a long way from crushing Taiwan's democracy, which is what China wants to do, same as what they want to do to Hong Kong.

    The only ones who do not recognize Taiwan as part of China is Trump and his cult followers.  The rest of the world sticks stubbornly to reality.
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