danvm said: I don't see any relevance on what MS charge OEM for Windows in an issue related to the iOS / iPadOS App Store. Maybe is more close to the XBox platform. The difference is that I can go any retailer and purchase games. I cannot do that with IOS / iPadOS devices.
Purchasing software at retail wasn't a better system for customers or developers when the App Store launched. It was much harder for developers to find a publisher and distributor. If they did get their software published/distributed, they would typically expect to retain about 30% of the proceeds from the retail price. The idea that getting 70% of the proceeds is "highway robbery" is a relatively new one. Also, the price of software at retail for consumers has always been generally higher vs. digital distribution. It wasn't common to find new applications that cost $4.99 or less prior to the App Store.
Not saying everything about the App Store is perfect or that it doesn't make sense for Congress to modernize some of the digital distribution rules with new legislation, but I think it will be hard for anyone to find things that rise to the level of antitrust under current law. Federal courts seemed to be fine with Amazon controlling 90% of ebook sales as long as their prices for consumers were lower.
My point is that iOS developers have no options a part from the App Store to sell / distribute their apps, different from XBox, where publishers decide to where to sell - distribute their games. Even MS allowed EA to sell their subscription service from the App Store, something Apple won't allow with Stadia, xCloud and GeForce Now.
Essentially, Apple has a business model; hardware, software, and app store, all wrapped in an expanding ecosystem, that MS would like to successfully emulate, but hasn't been able to create, at least to date.
I blame this on historic Windows branding, and the Windows license business model, and an almost entirely separated Xbox franchise. Perhaps Smith is now at the stage of tearing down the competition in lieu of actually innovating.
It's interesting to me that Apple has recently enabled iOS and iPad apps to run on Mac OS Big Sur and ASi with little effort from developers, certainly adding increased value to developers in the App store. With ASi rumored performance, will Apple now become a gamers haven?
The article mentions that MS discussion was about "arbitrariness of Apple's practices around approving apps, while also criticizing Apple's requirement that developers use the company's payment mechanism through their apps". Based on what I have read from developers, both points maybe valid, and not with the purpose to "tearing down competition", as you said.
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
Wov! Microsoft, don't forget. You acted anti competitive most of your past life taking over, and control the important software on PC/Server now says with straight face that Apple is anti competitive ? Shame on you, Microsoft. Apple became world's most admire and beloved company with hard work, making superior products that people love to buy and use. So, stop your propaganda against apple. Congressional Anti competitive committee should still go after Microsoft and divide there office suite,cloud,gaming and OS businesses. Microsoft, stop your efforts against another great American company Apple and direct towards making your products better. And if you still have energy and money, fund to make security software better and free to all so China or other bad actors don't hack computers, theft IP.
Maybe MS learn their lesson from +20 years ago, considering there were not asked to be in front of the antitrust committee. Maybe Apple could have learned from MS past experiences.
Of course he cares about "antitrust" issues and doesn't have a vested interest. Not like he works for a failed competitor or anything. /s
In other news Burger King says there's too many McDonald's locations, causes environmental problems.
For example, is there a valid reason for Apple to block game streaming services, like Stadia, GeForce Now or xCloud? Does it makes sense to you?
Apple doesn't have its own game streaming service, so why would they want to enable 3rd party game streaming? Will Congress now force Apple to provide streaming games, and what would be a fair cut?
Apple don't have to approve app based in what they have or don't have. If it is as you said, then they should remove educational apps, ERP's and many others they don't have. What you said doesn't makes sense.
Essentially, Apple has a business model; hardware, software, and app store, all wrapped in an expanding ecosystem, that MS would like to successfully emulate, but hasn't been able to create, at least to date.
I blame this on historic Windows branding, and the Windows license business model, and an almost entirely separated Xbox franchise. Perhaps Smith is now at the stage of tearing down the competition in lieu of actually innovating.
It's interesting to me that Apple has recently enabled iOS and iPad apps to run on Mac OS Big Sur and ASi with little effort from developers, certainly adding increased value to developers in the App store. With ASi rumored performance, will Apple now become a gamers haven?
The article mentions that MS discussion was about "arbitrariness of Apple's practices around approving apps, while also criticizing Apple's requirement that developers use the company's payment mechanism through their apps". Based on what I have read from developers, both points maybe valid, and not with the purpose to "tearing down competition", as you said.
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
From your link;
"However, Apple's "no cloud-based streaming" policies were in place before services like xCloud and Stadia existed.
"I don't see it cutting one way or the other," said David Reichenberg, an antitrust lawyer at Cozen O'Connor."
You seem very impatient, and even if Apple does offer streaming game services, it will be on their schedule, not MS's. Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Because Microsoft have tried and failed with its own application store, now they want to destroy Apple's AppStore. Af course, it is much more easier to destroy something made by someone else, then to build something of your own
Essentially, Apple has a business model; hardware, software, and app store, all wrapped in an expanding ecosystem, that MS would like to successfully emulate, but hasn't been able to create, at least to date.
I blame this on historic Windows branding, and the Windows license business model, and an almost entirely separated Xbox franchise. Perhaps Smith is now at the stage of tearing down the competition in lieu of actually innovating.
It's interesting to me that Apple has recently enabled iOS and iPad apps to run on Mac OS Big Sur and ASi with little effort from developers, certainly adding increased value to developers in the App store. With ASi rumored performance, will Apple now become a gamers haven?
The article mentions that MS discussion was about "arbitrariness of Apple's practices around approving apps, while also criticizing Apple's requirement that developers use the company's payment mechanism through their apps". Based on what I have read from developers, both points maybe valid, and not with the purpose to "tearing down competition", as you said.
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
From your link;
"However, Apple's "no cloud-based streaming" policies were in place before services like xCloud and Stadia existed.
"I don't see it cutting one way or the other," said David Reichenberg, an antitrust lawyer at Cozen O'Connor."
You seem very impatient, and even if Apple does offer streaming game services, it will be on their schedule, not MS's. Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Yes, I know the policies were before xCloud, GeForce and Stadia. But remember Apple have revised their policies a few times, but they still blocking games streaming services. Yes, it will be on their schedule or maybe never allow it. The thing is iOS customers are the one missing the gaming experience in their iOS devices.
Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Have you consider that MS, Google and NVidia may had discuss with Apple with no results, considering game streaming services still blocked?
So... The computing industry was nothing but a giant, infested mess full of malware, with everyone’s profits tanking. It was basically an industry of piracy and had one dominant player:Microsoft - With a side of Google.
The Apple, after being beaten to death the first time, spends some time reinventing g itself, comes back strong, figures out how to make everything “just work” again, provides compelling products, compelling services, security that is actually secure (with the occasional hiccup - but it’s the exception, not the rule), and makes it easy for customers to get what they want without sacrificing their security, privacy, and without having to jump through hoops or “manage” their device security every hour of the day, and SOLVES the problem.
Yay! Right?
It’s a great thing.
And who complains about it? The freaking idiots who were the problem to begin with.
It’s basically the old and busted just being jealous of the new hotness and they can’t beat them, and they tried and failed to join them... so now they just complain and hope to make life hard.
Thanks Satya and Brad!
i doubt they realize how small this makes MS look.
Of course he cares about "antitrust" issues and doesn't have a vested interest. Not like he works for a failed competitor or anything. /s
In other news Burger King says there's too many McDonald's locations, causes environmental problems.
For example, is there a valid reason for Apple to block game streaming services, like Stadia, GeForce Now or xCloud? Does it makes sense to you?
Apple doesn't have its own game streaming service, so why would they want to enable 3rd party game streaming? Will Congress now force Apple to provide streaming games, and what would be a fair cut?
Apple don't have to approve app based in what they have or don't have. If it is as you said, then they should remove educational apps, ERP's and many others they don't have. What you said doesn't makes sense.
Are you saying now, that if I am selling only TV sets, I would be also obliged to sell potatoes too?
Essentially, Apple has a business model; hardware, software, and app store, all wrapped in an expanding ecosystem, that MS would like to successfully emulate, but hasn't been able to create, at least to date.
I blame this on historic Windows branding, and the Windows license business model, and an almost entirely separated Xbox franchise. Perhaps Smith is now at the stage of tearing down the competition in lieu of actually innovating.
It's interesting to me that Apple has recently enabled iOS and iPad apps to run on Mac OS Big Sur and ASi with little effort from developers, certainly adding increased value to developers in the App store. With ASi rumored performance, will Apple now become a gamers haven?
The article mentions that MS discussion was about "arbitrariness of Apple's practices around approving apps, while also criticizing Apple's requirement that developers use the company's payment mechanism through their apps". Based on what I have read from developers, both points maybe valid, and not with the purpose to "tearing down competition", as you said.
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
From your link;
"However, Apple's "no cloud-based streaming" policies were in place before services like xCloud and Stadia existed.
"I don't see it cutting one way or the other," said David Reichenberg, an antitrust lawyer at Cozen O'Connor."
You seem very impatient, and even if Apple does offer streaming game services, it will be on their schedule, not MS's. Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Yes, I know the policies were before xCloud, GeForce and Stadia. But remember Apple have revised their policies a few times, but they still blocking games streaming services. Yes, it will be on their schedule or maybe never allow it. The thing is iOS customers are the one missing the gaming experience in their iOS devices.
Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Have you consider that MS, Google and NVidia may had discuss with Apple with no results, considering game streaming services still blocked?
Have you considered that Apple is in the midst of a major, innovative, and potential disruptive transition? Maybe streaming games is #55 on the list of things that need to be done by Apple.
Mandy Rice-Davies applies. (“Well, he would, wouldn’t he?”)
Microsoft has nice things envy. The kind of nice things a corporation gets when it produces a set of products that actually work together, even if it took years to get them to that level of integration.
danvm said: My point is that iOS developers have no options a part from the App Store to sell / distribute their apps, different from XBox, where publishers decide to where to sell - distribute their games. Even MS allowed EA to sell their subscription service from the App Store, something Apple won't allow with Stadia, xCloud and GeForce Now.
The App Store is their only option for selling on iOS/iPadOS/tvOS, but they're not limited to Apple's mobile or TV operating systems for sales. They can create versions for Windows, for macOS, for game consoles, for Android etc. That's one of the reasons that finding an antitrust issue per the App Store is difficult: cross platform development is a standard strategy for maximizing sales in the software market. No developer is really limited to selling on a single OS or a single store.
How much is “fair”? How much do retail stores take in from suppliers for putting products on shelves at eye level. Do retailers also give free products shelf space? What about CC charges? And Electricity? And employees? And cost of maintaining locations?
Of course he cares about "antitrust" issues and doesn't have a vested interest. Not like he works for a failed competitor or anything. /s
In other news Burger King says there's too many McDonald's locations, causes environmental problems.
For example, is there a valid reason for Apple to block game streaming services, like Stadia, GeForce Now or xCloud? Does it makes sense to you?
Apple doesn't have its own game streaming service, so why would they want to enable 3rd party game streaming? Will Congress now force Apple to provide streaming games, and what would be a fair cut?
Apple don't have to approve app based in what they have or don't have. If it is as you said, then they should remove educational apps, ERP's and many others they don't have. What you said doesn't makes sense.
Are you saying now, that if I am selling only TV sets, I would be also obliged to sell potatoes too?
No, your are not forced to sell potatoes in your TV store, the same way Apple is not obligated to allow game streaming services. Too bad, since millions of xCloud, Stadia and GeForce customers with iOS devices will miss the benefits of game streaming. But I suppose I cannot expect Apple understand this, considering their terrible gaming history.
Of course he cares about "antitrust" issues and doesn't have a vested interest. Not like he works for a failed competitor or anything. /s
In other news Burger King says there's too many McDonald's locations, causes environmental problems.
For example, is there a valid reason for Apple to block game streaming services, like Stadia, GeForce Now or xCloud? Does it makes sense to you?
Apple doesn't have its own game streaming service, so why would they want to enable 3rd party game streaming? Will Congress now force Apple to provide streaming games, and what would be a fair cut?
Apple don't have to approve app based in what they have or don't have. If it is as you said, then they should remove educational apps, ERP's and many others they don't have. What you said doesn't makes sense.
Are you saying now, that if I am selling only TV sets, I would be also obliged to sell potatoes too?
No, your are not forced to sell potatoes in your TV store, the same way Apple is not obligated to allow game streaming services. Too bad, since millions of xCloud, Stadia and GeForce customers with iOS devices will miss the benefits of game streaming. But I suppose I cannot expect Apple understand this, considering their terrible gaming history.
Essentially, Apple has a business model; hardware, software, and app store, all wrapped in an expanding ecosystem, that MS would like to successfully emulate, but hasn't been able to create, at least to date.
I blame this on historic Windows branding, and the Windows license business model, and an almost entirely separated Xbox franchise. Perhaps Smith is now at the stage of tearing down the competition in lieu of actually innovating.
It's interesting to me that Apple has recently enabled iOS and iPad apps to run on Mac OS Big Sur and ASi with little effort from developers, certainly adding increased value to developers in the App store. With ASi rumored performance, will Apple now become a gamers haven?
The article mentions that MS discussion was about "arbitrariness of Apple's practices around approving apps, while also criticizing Apple's requirement that developers use the company's payment mechanism through their apps". Based on what I have read from developers, both points maybe valid, and not with the purpose to "tearing down competition", as you said.
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app. https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
From your link;
"However, Apple's "no cloud-based streaming" policies were in place before services like xCloud and Stadia existed.
"I don't see it cutting one way or the other," said David Reichenberg, an antitrust lawyer at Cozen O'Connor."
You seem very impatient, and even if Apple does offer streaming game services, it will be on their schedule, not MS's. Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Yes, I know the policies were before xCloud, GeForce and Stadia. But remember Apple have revised their policies a few times, but they still blocking games streaming services. Yes, it will be on their schedule or maybe never allow it. The thing is iOS customers are the one missing the gaming experience in their iOS devices.
Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Have you consider that MS, Google and NVidia may had discuss with Apple with no results, considering game streaming services still blocked?
Have you considered that Apple is in the midst of a major, innovative, and potential disruptive transition? Maybe streaming games is #55 on the list of things that need to be done by Apple.
I don't see the relation of Apple changes and what MS, Google and NVidia are doing with game streaming. MS already has xCloud running in TestFlight, waiting for Apple to change their policy. Maybe game streaming is #55, but maybe is not in the list at all. Who knows...
danvm said: My point is that iOS developers have no options a part from the App Store to sell / distribute their apps, different from XBox, where publishers decide to where to sell - distribute their games. Even MS allowed EA to sell their subscription service from the App Store, something Apple won't allow with Stadia, xCloud and GeForce Now.
The App Store is their only option for selling on iOS/iPadOS/tvOS, but they're not limited to Apple's mobile or TV operating systems for sales. They can create versions for Windows, for macOS, for game consoles, for Android etc. That's one of the reasons that finding an antitrust issue per the App Store is difficult: cross platform development is a standard strategy for maximizing sales in the software market. No developer is really limited to selling on a single OS or a single store.
MS, same as a lot of developers, already have apps in multiples platforms. But it's easy to see why they want to be in the iOS / iPadOS App Store. And based on what MS and many developers have express, I think Apple could improve their policies in the App Store.
Comments
In addition, MS is doing a lot of innovation, for example in cloud services and gaming. IMO, this is one of the cases where MS has a valid point, since Apple won't allow MS distribute the xCloud app.
https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/03/25/app-store-guidelines-limit-what-gaming-services-players-can-access
Does Apple does this with the purpose of tearing down competition, as you said, or do you really think there is a valid reason to block this kind of service? Maybe Apple should start innovating a little more in gaming, instead of blocking other services. And I don't think that the Apple Silicon performance will change things. Just look at Nintendo Switch, the worst console based in performance, but it shines when it comes to innovation. Apple should learn a few things from Nintendo, MS and Sony.
"However, Apple's "no cloud-based streaming" policies were in place before services like xCloud and Stadia existed.
"I don't see it cutting one way or the other," said David Reichenberg, an antitrust lawyer at Cozen O'Connor."
You seem very impatient, and even if Apple does offer streaming game services, it will be on their schedule, not MS's. Perhaps MS would have done better to discuss this with Apple behind the scenes.
Have you consider that MS, Google and NVidia may had discuss with Apple with no results, considering game streaming services still blocked?
i doubt they realize how small this makes MS look.
But none of you are ready for THAT conversation.
Microsoft has nice things envy. The kind of nice things a corporation gets when it produces a set of products that actually work together, even if it took years to get them to that level of integration.
DBAD