If I had my druthers, no one except Apple would have access to my location on an ongoing basis. One time access, with my permission sought each time they need it, yes. But ongoing? Hell no! I don't trust any developer on this.
The one service requirement makes sense: otherwise people would trust in Apple’s FindMy service’s privacy, while a parallel service would leak the data based on a user agreement most people just click OK on, without reading.
Of course this is more stringent: here it’s not just about a “made for iOS” sticker, or AppStore listing; here it’s about privacy.
If I had my druthers, no one except Apple would have access to my location on an ongoing basis. One time access, with my permission sought each time they need it, yes. But ongoing? Hell no! I don't trust any developer on this.
No one will, that’s the point: third party devices can connect to Apple’s service, with location information ending up with Apple and the user; that’s exactly why Apple prevents third party services in the agreement.
Why do developers feel entitled to full access to the iPhone and its functionality?
Developers need access because users need access and users get that access through apps they buy.
The issue is fine-grained access control and user permissions.
It’s e.g. ridiculous that I had to buy an Android phone just to run a network scanning software, because Apple blocks access to MAC addresses.
I understand why Apple does it: to prevent user tracking; but the same could have been achieved by requiring user consent before allowing access to such data, or by subjecting apps that need such access to additional scrutiny during the AppStore approval process, rather than wholesale blocking that access for everyone and everything.
Apple should update its AppStore policies to prevent developers from asking for users mobile phone number as precondition to providing services.
Apple blocked access to all sort of device information, cookies, etc., invented “sign in with Apple” etc. to thwart user tracking, but now an increasing number of apps ask for the users phone number “for account security” which then is the most personally identifiable piece of information by which users can be tracked.
But Apple so far does not forbid this practice, rendering in effect all their prior efforts useless.
"Developers will also be required to ask a user for consent before obtaining their location"
That old bugaboo, consent. There goes find my wife or find my 16 year old kid.
You can do that easily if they all have iOS devices and you have a family iCloud account. We use it all the time and is great for scheduling events/ reminders.
Apple can do whatever they choose to do and can extend whatever privileges to the Developers they find appropriate, however, they must first find another name for the "Find My" app, service, or whatever it is.
The consent is established when you set them up then you can see their location anytime. It's been that way since the very first release of Find My Friends eons ago. I
Things changed fairly subtly, fairly recently. If you want location-based notifications (such as when someone leaves where they currently are), they get a separate notification that you've requested this. No more "stealthing" in that regard.
Apple can do whatever they choose to do and can extend whatever privileges to the Developers they find appropriate, however, they must first find another name for the "Find My" app, service, or whatever it is.
They did. It's called Find My. Before it was Find my iPhone despite years of it being able to also find iPads, Macs, and Apple Watches.
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My.
At first I thought it meant that developers couldn’t support another service if they wanted to use the Find My service.
Now I read it again, I think that you cannot support another service in the same app.
So Tile would need an app for their network, and a second app for Apple’s.
Does that sound right?
Sounds right.
To me, placing In this barrier is a way to prevent Tile from aggregating it’s own data with Find My data for surveillance. Tile has cried loudly about having to request user permission for access to location data and despises having iOS report to users which apps are accessing location data.
The “hindrance” reference in the story is a major red flag to me. I am not hindered having to approve or deny allowing an app to access my location data. On the other hand, the app maker may feel hindered that permission is required.
Are the governments “scrutinizing” Apple asking the developers complaining about Apple’s restrictions, “Are you adhering to the law that require developers to request user permission to access personal data (like location data)? Are you limiting your access to personal data? Are you reporting how user data is used when requested? Are you deleting user data upon request?”?
Is Tile willing to answer these questions? Is AppleInsider willing to ask these questions?
"Developers will also be required to ask a user for consent before obtaining their location"
That old bugaboo, consent. There goes find my wife or find my 16 year old kid.
You can do that easily if they all have iOS devices and you have a family iCloud account. We use it all the time and is great for scheduling events/ reminders.
Remember we are talking about third party apps on the iPhone.
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My. Developers told The Post that this is not something they have encountered before. Apple users are usually afforded the ability to use multiple apps to control the same piece of hardware.
Trying to rationalise this, would the concern be that the third party service might have a way in to private location data from Apple's Find My service? That seems fairly sensible, if Apple aren't fully confident of being able to protect user data within the app. Developers can ship a different app for other services, not a major problem.
I have reasonable confidence that Apple isn’t going to use the information for tracking me—not because I’m a wide eyed sheeple, but because Apple makes their money from selling premium hardware and increasingly by selling associated services. Loss of user trust would cost them tremendously.
I was thinking of up-voting, but you used the word sheeple. Poof all of your credibility is gone.
But he used "sheeple" on himself to clarify what he's not. I think that's acceptable and his credibility in the post stands.
The word is a slur. To use it is to accept it as legitimate. To say "I am not..." is to overtly suggest that others are. If someone uses it, they are saying that it is acceptable, and that degrades the quality of the dialogue we are trying to have here. Just don't.
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My.
At first I thought it meant that developers couldn’t support another service if they wanted to use the Find My service.
Now I read it again, I think that you cannot support another service in the same app.
So Tile would need an app for their network, and a second app for Apple’s.
Does that sound right?
Sounds right.
To me, placing In this barrier is a way to prevent Tile from aggregating it’s own data with Find My data for surveillance. Tile has cried loudly about having to request user permission for access to location data and despises having iOS report to users which apps are accessing location data.
The “hindrance” reference in the story is a major red flag to me. I am not hindered having to approve or deny allowing an app to access my location data. On the other hand, the app maker may feel hindered that permission is required.
Yes, it's a bit unclear to me, but I think this is why the restrictions are in place.
As long as Apple is not trying to prevent developers from supporting competing locator services then I don't have a problem. And I think it would be a mistake to allow competing services in the same app: just because I grant permission for Apple's service, it doesn't mean I want to grant permission to someone else's.
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My.
At first I thought it meant that developers couldn’t support another service if they wanted to use the Find My service.
Now I read it again, I think that you cannot support another service in the same app.
So Tile would need an app for their network, and a second app for Apple’s.
Does that sound right?
“In iOS 14, Apple will launch new Find My network accessory program, which allows Apple customers to track third-party items, like object trackers such as Tile or any other devices that can be integrated into the platform.
However, it appears that third-party companies will have to adhere to far more stringent rules if they want to take advantage of Find My.
...
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My. “
A few have commented on this including the post I’m quoting above. I think I’m reading it differently.
I don’t think Tile has to create a second app for users to use Tiles in Apple’s Find My service. I think Apple is opening up Find My so that if Tile will agree to it, I’ll be able to find my keys, wallet, etc. (that all have a Tile attached) in the Find My app, alongside my phone, watch, iPad, wife, etc. and not use any Tile app at all.
I see this as kind of like how the Home app brings all my smart home devices together.
Although there’s one difference: using my Hue lights, Wemo plugs, etc. in the Home app doesn’t stop me (or the developer from letting me) ALSO use the Hue and Wemo apps at the same time if I want. But those apps don’t rely on personal data like my location to function. The restriction here, I think, is that if I connect my Tile up to Find My, then tha removes the option for me as a user to allow the same Tile to be seen in Tile’s network - there’s no option for me to use the same Tile in the Tile app - and vice versa. I’m not quite sure why that makes any difference but it may be that without that restriction there’s some back door way for Tile or whoever else to get at other location info in Find My through a Tile if it were connected to both services.
So Apple is now giving devs the ability to keep selling their products to us and bring those products into the fold so to speak, without having to compete against Apple’s “unfair advantage” - if they want - while still keeping that back door locked, to protect us. Best of both worlds if you ask me.
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My.
At first I thought it meant that developers couldn’t support another service if they wanted to use the Find My service.
Now I read it again, I think that you cannot support another service in the same app.
So Tile would need an app for their network, and a second app for Apple’s.
Does that sound right?
“In iOS 14, Apple will launch new Find My network accessory program, which allows Apple customers to track third-party items, like object trackers such as Tile or any other devices that can be integrated into the platform.
However, it appears that third-party companies will have to adhere to far more stringent rules if they want to take advantage of Find My.
...
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My. “
A few have commented on this including the post I’m quoting above. I think I’m reading it differently.
I don’t think Tile has to create a second app for users to use Tiles in Apple’s Find My service. I think Apple is opening up Find My so that if Tile will agree to it, I’ll be able to find my keys, wallet, etc. (that all have a Tile attached) in the Find My app, alongside my phone, watch, iPad, wife, etc. and not use any Tile app at all.
I see this as kind of like how the Home app brings all my smart home devices together.
Although there’s one difference: using my Hue lights, Wemo plugs, etc. in the Home app doesn’t stop me (or the developer from letting me) ALSO use the Hue and Wemo apps at the same time if I want. But those apps don’t rely on personal data like my location to function. The restriction here, I think, is that if I connect my Tile up to Find My, then tha removes the option for me as a user to allow the same Tile to be seen in Tile’s network - there’s no option for me to use the same Tile in the Tile app - and vice versa. I’m not quite sure why that makes any difference but it may be that without that restriction there’s some back door way for Tile or whoever else to get at other location info in Find My through a Tile if it were connected to both services.
So Apple is now giving devs the ability to keep selling their products to us and bring those products into the fold so to speak, without having to compete against Apple’s “unfair advantage” - if they want - while still keeping that back door locked, to protect us. Best of both worlds if you ask me.
I think that’s it, Apple is not allowing the data to leave Find My, so if that third-party item a user has in Find My wants to use that location data outside of Find My it won’t be able to. If that third-party company relies on that location data it will have to be through it’s own app.
Comments
Of course this is more stringent: here it’s not just about a “made for iOS” sticker, or AppStore listing; here it’s about privacy.
The issue is fine-grained access control and user permissions.
It’s e.g. ridiculous that I had to buy an Android phone just to run a network scanning software, because Apple blocks access to MAC addresses.
I understand why Apple does it: to prevent user tracking; but the same could have been achieved by requiring user consent before allowing access to such data, or by subjecting apps that need such access to additional scrutiny during the AppStore approval process, rather than wholesale blocking that access for everyone and everything.
Apple blocked access to all sort of device information, cookies, etc., invented “sign in with Apple” etc. to thwart user tracking, but now an increasing number of apps ask for the users phone number “for account security”
But Apple so far does not forbid this practice, rendering in effect all their prior efforts useless.
Is Tile willing to answer these questions? Is AppleInsider willing to ask these questions?
Remember we are talking about third party apps on the iPhone.
If someone uses it, they are saying that it is acceptable, and that degrades the quality of the dialogue we are trying to have here.
Just don't.
As long as Apple is not trying to prevent developers from supporting competing locator services then I don't have a problem. And I think it would be a mistake to allow competing services in the same app: just because I grant permission for Apple's service, it doesn't mean I want to grant permission to someone else's.
However, it appears that third-party companies will have to adhere to far more stringent rules if they want to take advantage of Find My.
...
The first major limitation is that users will not be able to use competing services while using Find My. “
So Apple is now giving devs the ability to keep selling their products to us and bring those products into the fold so to speak, without having to compete against Apple’s “unfair advantage” - if they want - while still keeping that back door locked, to protect us. Best of both worlds if you ask me.