Epic calls Apple's 'Fortnite' & developer tool block 'overbroad retaliation'

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 81
    It's incredible how epic went on with a dick move then plans to keep on using Apple's tools and services, total lack of integrity, and honor. I feel for the developers employed by Epic, I wonder if they support the company's move, which now puts their livelihood at unnecessary risk. 

    There is nothing wrong with entertainment companies, they provide jobs and entertainment.  But I feel no sympathy for this game maker going out of business and I wish they do because a lot of their customers are young people who more often than not are spending more hours than they probably should on entertainment, likely better off spent on something productive.
    tobianwatto_cobra
  • Reply 42 of 81
    Microsoft's statement, by Kevin Gammill, underlines Unreal Engine as being a "critical technology for numerous game creators, including Microsoft," and as one of the most popular third-party game engines around, there's "very few other options available for creators to license with as many features and as much functionality as Unreal Engine across multiple platforms, including iOS."
    So… yeah… That would be a problem with Microsoft et al. putting all their eggs long-term in a basket belonging to an unreliable partner; that's not a problem that the more reliable partner Apple has a moral responsibility to fix for them. If anything those third parties should go after Epic for purposefully hurting third parties in Epic's attempt to bully Apple into giving them a discount.

    If the lack of UE on Apple platforms becomes a problem for the Apple business model/target demographic I'm sure that Apple will address this in the future; but third parties shouldn't go blaming Apple for the bad, and very much on calculated, actions of Epic.
    aderutterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 43 of 81

    viclauyyc said:
    Is the Unreal Engine free to use?
    From http://www.letmewikipediathatforyou.com/?q=Unreal_EngineThe latest release is Unreal Engine 4, which launched in 2014 under a subscription model. Since 2015, it can be downloaded for free, with its source code available on GitHub. Epic allows for its use in commercial products based on a royalty model, typically asking developers for 5% of revenues from sales, though with the success of Fortnite, which has become a testbed for Unreal Engine for Epic, Epic waives this fee for developers that publish their games through the Epic Games Store. On May 13th, 2020, Epic announced that their portion of royalties for games developed in Unreal Engine are waived until developers have earned their first US$1 million in revenue, retroactively applying to January 1st, 2020. Epic has announced Unreal Engine 5 to be released by late-2021.
  • Reply 44 of 81
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    danvm said:
    Apple_Bar said:
    danvm said:
    altivec88 said:
    Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

    This is tantamount to saying I want to break the rules while we figure this out and throw a childish public tantrum jeopardizing all our customers work.  

    Love Microsoft for helping out Epic. It will be funny when Epic goes after them next wanting the xbox store open and there 30% fee eliminated. 

    If I was considering using Unreal engine for my game, it would be a hard pass after this. Epic seems to be a flake company that only cares about themselves. Who knows what their next crusade will be after this. Way too much volatility for me to base my work on. 
    I don’t think MS would have problems with an alternate store, considering they already have one with EA Play. 

    Also you are not forced to pay the 30% of the App Store for your games, as happens with iOS / iPadOS devices, since you can sell your boxed games in major retailers. 
    LMAO and those major retailers don’t get a 30% commission to put the boxed games in THEIR stores???

    The ignorance in these Epic vs Apple posts is astronomical.
    My point was that console game developers have options not available in iOS / iPadOS, and retailers was one of them.  I haven’t seen an article about retailers and 30% commissions for boxed games. Can you post one?
    Yupindeedy.

    https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

    • Software developers typically received 30–40% of the retail price of boxed software before the advent of digital software downloads. The remaining 60–70% went to distributors and retailers. By contrast, developers who distribute software via app stores or digital software distribution platforms typically collect 70–85% of the sales price. 


    Retailers weren't charging 30% for putting boxed software on their shelves; they were charging 60%, which is why you can't buy boxed software anymore.
    edited August 2020 aderutterwatto_cobra
  • Reply 45 of 81
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Incidentally, Apple has insisted that they don't offer special treatment to any developers, though in Amazon's case, that doesn't appear to be true.

    Here's what Apple has to say about it:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/01/apple-agreement-with-amazon-lets-you-rent-movies-through-prime-video.html

    “Apple has an established program for premium subscription video entertainment providers to offer a variety of customer benefits — including integration with the Apple TV app, AirPlay 2 support, tvOS apps, universal search, Siri support and, where applicable, single or zero sign-on,” an Apple spokesperson told CNBC.

    Right, so from what I gather, if the subscription is new then it has to go through IAP, but if it is an existing customer (as is often the case with Amazon) then Apple does allow payments through the provider's payment system.

    So, according to Apple, this is not special treatment because it's open to other media entertainment companies (such as Canal+) as long as they follow the rules. (And it's not that much different to cases where developers sign up on their own site and then tell you to download the app on the App Store).

    My guess is that Apple is happy with this because if the customer signed up on the provider's site then there is no comeback on Apple if there's any fraud (though I have no doubt that in the first instance, the aggrieved customer would attempt to sue Apple).

    It's also likely that while negotiating the 15% cut with Amazon, Apple realised that they couldn't say they didn't offer special treatment if they carried on charging 30% to everyone else, so they had no choice but to drop the price for all subs to 15%.

    Now, Apple says that the first year charge is 30% and then 15% thereafter. 

    But Amazon started paying the lower fee straight away. Now it could be argued that the app had already been on the store for more than a year, so that's why they didn't have to pay the initial 30%.

    So my question is this: when this rule came in, did other subscription providers have to carry on paying 30% for another year, or did they drop to 15% immediately because they were already on the App Store for a year or more?

    But if the courts think they can decide what Apple can and can't allow on their App Store then that is a disaster in the making, because as soon as Apple allows other stores on their store, then they will have no choice but to allow anyone to open up their own BitCoin Shop and that would be all kinds of bad.
    edited August 2020 watto_cobra
  • Reply 46 of 81
    mwhitemwhite Posts: 287member
    4 more days left.
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 47 of 81
    bushman4bushman4 Posts: 856member
    Epic is this worth the challenge??? 
    This is not a game. Breeches of agreement aren’t good
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 48 of 81
    davidwdavidw Posts: 2,024member
    danvm said:
    altivec88 said:
    Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

    This is tantamount to saying I want to break the rules while we figure this out and throw a childish public tantrum jeopardizing all our customers work.  

    Love Microsoft for helping out Epic. It will be funny when Epic goes after them next wanting the xbox store open and there 30% fee eliminated. 

    If I was considering using Unreal engine for my game, it would be a hard pass after this. Epic seems to be a flake company that only cares about themselves. Who knows what their next crusade will be after this. Way too much volatility for me to base my work on. 
    I don’t think MS would have problems with an alternate store, considering they already have one with EA Play. 

    Also you are not forced to pay the 30% of the App Store for your games, as happens with iOS / iPadOS devices, since you can sell your boxed games in major retailers. 
    People like you still don't get it. It's not about how much it cost you to pay a 30% cut but how much you make with your 70% cut. Get with the program.

    If you sold your $5 software at your garage sales every weekend, you can keep 100% of the sale. But what use is keeping 100%, if you only sell 5 copies a weekend. That's $25 in your pocket every weekend. 

    But if you rent a booth at a flea market, you might be able to sell 20 copies a weekend. But when adding the cost of renting the booth and time to set up at the flea market, you might end up keeping 85%. That's $85 in your pocket every weekend. 

    Say that you make a deal with a local computer store where they will sell your software for a 20% cut. If they sell 100 copies a week, that's $400 in your pocket. 

    Or maybe you can sell your software at the Apple App Store or Google Play Store, where it's listed 24/7, Apple and Google handle the whole transaction and you sell 500 copies every week. That would be $1750 in your pocket, after paying the 30% cut.

    Are you really going to say that ......... no way I'm paying Apple or Google a 30% cut and only get to keep 70%? Apple is robbing me blind. I rather keep 100% with my garage sales or 85% selling at the flea market or 80% selling at my local computer store?  

    You can pay a 50% cut in the app stores and still come out ahead by having more money in your pocket. You are truly clueless, if you think paying less of a commission elsewhere, means you're going to be making more money. 

    Plus with the app stores, it cost you nothing, except maybe time (and the $99 a year license with allows to to submit as many software as you develop in a year), if you don't sell any of your software. It's not like selling at a flea market where it will still cost you time, gas and money, even if you don't make any sales.Or the time to takes to go to your local computer store, to do inventory and calculate what you are owed.

    Do you have over a billion people walking by your home every weekend? Or walking pass your booth at the flea market? Or your local computer store serves over a billion international customers in their store? 
    edited August 2020 Rayz2016aderuttersvanstrommwhitehlee1169watto_cobraDetnator
  • Reply 49 of 81
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    sdw2001 said:
    Anything can happen, but I don’t see how Epic has a leg to stand on here.  Apple’s terms are clear.  They deliberately violated them, Apple lowered the boom, and Epic *immediately* sued.   Now you have Apple’s competitors chiming in.  Who knows though.  These things go on for years and rarely have a clear outcome.  
    Microsoft has officially opened the door into its business contracts with Epic Games. Is Microsoft’s participation with Epic Games predicated on Epic Games not pursuing litigation against Microsoft’s closed Xbox game store? Also, how many iOS video games based on Unreal Engine does Microsoft have on the App Store?
    Let me just stop your misguided comment here..

    Xbox does NOT have a closed store. You can install the EA E Shop if you want to onto your Xbox and buy and install games totally separate from the Xbox store.
    And that’s not even mentioning the endless brick and mortar stores I can buy games in, I can buy a game when buying food, or the endless online retailers I can buy a game from, or the endless brick and mortar AND online stores I can buy second hand games from, or the fact I can simply borrow a game totally free from a friend to play...
    So please don’t even attempt to try and out a Microsoft’s store in the same light as the iOS store as I can ONLY get iOS apps from one place and one place only, and I can buy a Xbox game from countless places and resources and that’s a hard fact!  
  • Reply 50 of 81
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    I think something to keep in mind here is that, although Apple is the tip of the spear on this, the whole issue of exclusive access to a given ecosystem is what's at stake, especially when a mandatory fee arrangement is in place. GooglePlay for Android, App Store for iOS, iPadOS, etc, game stores for Switch, Xbox, Playstation, etc. Will governments, regulators and Courts allow this to continue without some modification? Hard to say honestly. It would be messy to undo this framework which, in the case of Apple, I happen to like due to security reasons. But if history is any guide (railroads, Standard Oil, Ma Bell), changes might be forced on these app store frameworks.
    Epic wanted its own App Store to sell to gamers directly, but did not want to build its own console or build its own phone.  Epic did not have problems with PlayStation, XBox, or Switch, but have problem with Apple and Google.

    It's nothing but a publicity stunt for Epic.  It could learn something from Amazon:  Amazon negotiated a deal to sell Apple TV in exchange to have Prime Video app in App Store that competes with Apple TV+.
    Again with the misguided information, or ignorance? But I can buy any Nintendo or Xbox or PlatStation game from countless brick and mortar and online stores both new and second hand and even borrow them totally free of friends or relatives. And then I can also install other e shops onto the Xbox and I think PlayStation to purchase games bypassing their own stores. Remember these cold hard facts when your trying to throw Microsoft into the same bus as Apple, with iOS where I can ONLY get my games and apps from the Apple store and NO WHERE else....
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 51 of 81
    Peza said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Anything can happen, but I don’t see how Epic has a leg to stand on here.  Apple’s terms are clear.  They deliberately violated them, Apple lowered the boom, and Epic *immediately* sued.   Now you have Apple’s competitors chiming in.  Who knows though.  These things go on for years and rarely have a clear outcome.  
    Microsoft has officially opened the door into its business contracts with Epic Games. Is Microsoft’s participation with Epic Games predicated on Epic Games not pursuing litigation against Microsoft’s closed Xbox game store? Also, how many iOS video games based on Unreal Engine does Microsoft have on the App Store?
    Let me just stop your misguided comment here..

    Xbox does NOT have a closed store. You can install the EA E Shop if you want to onto your Xbox and buy and install games totally separate from the Xbox store.
    And that’s not even mentioning the endless brick and mortar stores I can buy games in, I can buy a game when buying food, or the endless online retailers I can buy a game from, or the endless brick and mortar AND online stores I can buy second hand games from, or the fact I can simply borrow a game totally free from a friend to play...
    So please don’t even attempt to try and out a Microsoft’s store in the same light as the iOS store as I can ONLY get iOS apps from one place and one place only, and I can buy a Xbox game from countless places and resources and that’s a hard fact!  
    To play devil's advocate with your line of reasoning there:

    If Apple gift cards could be tied to a single installation of a single game, and the cards could be branded (including changing the shape of it; and perhaps even containing pre-cached resources, like App Clips)… then… well… Technically that would fulfil the requirements that you've stated regarding the apps as they function on the "hard fact" different Xbox platform.

    So would it make you equal the platforms if Apple also allowed these more limited, but branded, gift cards (and if not, with what reasoning)?
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 52 of 81
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    Rayz2016 said:
    danvm said:
    Apple_Bar said:
    danvm said:
    altivec88 said:
    Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

    This is tantamount to saying I want to break the rules while we figure this out and throw a childish public tantrum jeopardizing all our customers work.  

    Love Microsoft for helping out Epic. It will be funny when Epic goes after them next wanting the xbox store open and there 30% fee eliminated. 

    If I was considering using Unreal engine for my game, it would be a hard pass after this. Epic seems to be a flake company that only cares about themselves. Who knows what their next crusade will be after this. Way too much volatility for me to base my work on. 
    I don’t think MS would have problems with an alternate store, considering they already have one with EA Play. 

    Also you are not forced to pay the 30% of the App Store for your games, as happens with iOS / iPadOS devices, since you can sell your boxed games in major retailers. 
    LMAO and those major retailers don’t get a 30% commission to put the boxed games in THEIR stores???

    The ignorance in these Epic vs Apple posts is astronomical.
    My point was that console game developers have options not available in iOS / iPadOS, and retailers was one of them.  I haven’t seen an article about retailers and 30% commissions for boxed games. Can you post one?
    Yupindeedy.

    https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

    • Software developers typically received 30–40% of the retail price of boxed software before the advent of digital software downloads. The remaining 60–70% went to distributors and retailers. By contrast, developers who distribute software via app stores or digital software distribution platforms typically collect 70–85% of the sales price. 


    Retailers weren't charging 30% for putting boxed software on their shelves; they were charging 60%, which is why you can't buy boxed software anymore.
    Are you referring them programmes like Adobe as opposed to games in your last comment? Or  games?
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 53 of 81
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member

    svanstrom said:
    Peza said:
    sdw2001 said:
    Anything can happen, but I don’t see how Epic has a leg to stand on here.  Apple’s terms are clear.  They deliberately violated them, Apple lowered the boom, and Epic *immediately* sued.   Now you have Apple’s competitors chiming in.  Who knows though.  These things go on for years and rarely have a clear outcome.  
    Microsoft has officially opened the door into its business contracts with Epic Games. Is Microsoft’s participation with Epic Games predicated on Epic Games not pursuing litigation against Microsoft’s closed Xbox game store? Also, how many iOS video games based on Unreal Engine does Microsoft have on the App Store?
    Let me just stop your misguided comment here..

    Xbox does NOT have a closed store. You can install the EA E Shop if you want to onto your Xbox and buy and install games totally separate from the Xbox store.
    And that’s not even mentioning the endless brick and mortar stores I can buy games in, I can buy a game when buying food, or the endless online retailers I can buy a game from, or the endless brick and mortar AND online stores I can buy second hand games from, or the fact I can simply borrow a game totally free from a friend to play...
    So please don’t even attempt to try and out a Microsoft’s store in the same light as the iOS store as I can ONLY get iOS apps from one place and one place only, and I can buy a Xbox game from countless places and resources and that’s a hard fact!  
    To play devil's advocate with your line of reasoning there:

    If Apple gift cards could be tied to a single installation of a single game, and the cards could be branded (including changing the shape of it; and perhaps even containing pre-cached resources, like App Clips)… then… well… Technically that would fulfil the requirements that you've stated regarding the apps as they function on the "hard fact" different Xbox platform.

    So would it make you equal the platforms if Apple also allowed these more limited, but branded, gift cards (and if not, with what reasoning)?
    Your comment literally makes no sense.... you need to rephrase your appalling analogy.
    And my reply would be just when was the last time I could buy an iOS app with £60 worth of in app purchases second hand for £15 then? But you can ‘try’ to compare the two if you wish to defend Apple.
  • Reply 54 of 81
    Rayz2016Rayz2016 Posts: 6,957member
    Peza said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    danvm said:
    Apple_Bar said:
    danvm said:
    altivec88 said:
    Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

    This is tantamount to saying I want to break the rules while we figure this out and throw a childish public tantrum jeopardizing all our customers work.  

    Love Microsoft for helping out Epic. It will be funny when Epic goes after them next wanting the xbox store open and there 30% fee eliminated. 

    If I was considering using Unreal engine for my game, it would be a hard pass after this. Epic seems to be a flake company that only cares about themselves. Who knows what their next crusade will be after this. Way too much volatility for me to base my work on. 
    I don’t think MS would have problems with an alternate store, considering they already have one with EA Play. 

    Also you are not forced to pay the 30% of the App Store for your games, as happens with iOS / iPadOS devices, since you can sell your boxed games in major retailers. 
    LMAO and those major retailers don’t get a 30% commission to put the boxed games in THEIR stores???

    The ignorance in these Epic vs Apple posts is astronomical.
    My point was that console game developers have options not available in iOS / iPadOS, and retailers was one of them.  I haven’t seen an article about retailers and 30% commissions for boxed games. Can you post one?
    Yupindeedy.

    https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

    • Software developers typically received 30–40% of the retail price of boxed software before the advent of digital software downloads. The remaining 60–70% went to distributors and retailers. By contrast, developers who distribute software via app stores or digital software distribution platforms typically collect 70–85% of the sales price. 


    Retailers weren't charging 30% for putting boxed software on their shelves; they were charging 60%, which is why you can't buy boxed software anymore.
    Are you referring them programmes like Adobe as opposed to games in your last comment? Or  games?
    Boxed software is boxed software, whether it’s a word processor or a game. 
    watto_cobra
  • Reply 55 of 81
    uraharaurahara Posts: 733member
    crowley said:
    tommikele said:
    Epic has no intention of passing on any gains to consumers. It will go right in the pockets of the company and owners. 
    This is speculative and does not seem to be true based on the available evidence of the commission rate on the Epic Game Store, and what Epic actually offered when this whole fiasco started.. 


    Discount price is often offered for a limited time. It’s just a public stunt. They can raise the price fot direct payment anytime they want.  
    Moreover, you can sideload the game on Android to enjoy those prices. Is that what you want? Then use Android. The devices are often also cheaper. 
    You want everything cheaper. So buy cheaper stuff. Don’t buy Apple’s stuff if you don’t want to pay Apple. 
    ththlee1169watto_cobra
  • Reply 56 of 81
    danvm said: My point was that console game developers have options not available in iOS / iPadOS, and retailers was one of them.  I haven’t seen an article about retailers and 30% commissions for boxed games. Can you post one?
    Game developers and publishers get about 45% of the retail price in brick/mortar stores. (see page 31 from the PDF link)

    https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

    This is one of the things that disproves the "pass the savings to customers" stuff that Epic is trying to sell. Why aren't prices for new console games always cheaper for a digital copy than brick/mortar if the developer/publisher get a higher percentage of the sale digitally (70% vs 45%)?
    edited August 2020 svanstromwatto_cobra
  • Reply 57 of 81
    PezaPeza Posts: 198member
    Rayz2016 said:
    Peza said:
    Rayz2016 said:
    danvm said:
    Apple_Bar said:
    danvm said:
    altivec88 said:
    Pretty easy solution.  Epic can continue their lawsuit while following the same rules they followed for a decade. What’s a few more years until it gets sorted out in the courts. In fact they can even sue to get back all Apple charges retrospective from this point if they are successful. Which they won’t be. 

    This is tantamount to saying I want to break the rules while we figure this out and throw a childish public tantrum jeopardizing all our customers work.  

    Love Microsoft for helping out Epic. It will be funny when Epic goes after them next wanting the xbox store open and there 30% fee eliminated. 

    If I was considering using Unreal engine for my game, it would be a hard pass after this. Epic seems to be a flake company that only cares about themselves. Who knows what their next crusade will be after this. Way too much volatility for me to base my work on. 
    I don’t think MS would have problems with an alternate store, considering they already have one with EA Play. 

    Also you are not forced to pay the 30% of the App Store for your games, as happens with iOS / iPadOS devices, since you can sell your boxed games in major retailers. 
    LMAO and those major retailers don’t get a 30% commission to put the boxed games in THEIR stores???

    The ignorance in these Epic vs Apple posts is astronomical.
    My point was that console game developers have options not available in iOS / iPadOS, and retailers was one of them.  I haven’t seen an article about retailers and 30% commissions for boxed games. Can you post one?
    Yupindeedy.

    https://www.analysisgroup.com/globalassets/insights/publishing/apples_app_store_and_other_digital_marketplaces_a_comparison_of_commission_rates.pdf

    • Software developers typically received 30–40% of the retail price of boxed software before the advent of digital software downloads. The remaining 60–70% went to distributors and retailers. By contrast, developers who distribute software via app stores or digital software distribution platforms typically collect 70–85% of the sales price. 


    Retailers weren't charging 30% for putting boxed software on their shelves; they were charging 60%, which is why you can't buy boxed software anymore.
    Are you referring them programmes like Adobe as opposed to games in your last comment? Or  games?
    Boxed software is boxed software, whether it’s a word processor or a game. 
    In that case you are totally wrong and must not have gone out for a while? Because I can easily buy a game in a box when buying my food let alone game stores or Amazon. So where you get the idea no one is selling boxed software anymore is beyond me... you must have dreamed it or something?
    edited August 2020
  • Reply 58 of 81
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    What just struck me was that, while Epic is modelling its campaign against Apple from Steve Job's Apple campaign against IBM, in 1984 that level of hyperbole was seen by all (including Apple) as being "over the top".   Today, that level of hyperbole has been normalized in our ongoing "end of world as we know it" political scenarios.

    Perhaps its time for everybody to return their heads to reality and the feed to back to the floor -- and start dealing with facts rather than innuendo and hyperbole.
  • Reply 59 of 81
    Peza said: Xbox does NOT have a closed store. You can install the EA E Shop if you want to onto your Xbox and buy and install games totally separate from the Xbox store.
    EA Play isn't a store. You pay a monthly fee to get early access to new EA games (which have to be purchased separately and MS gets it's 30% cut) and to get free access to older EA games.
    aderutterthtfastasleepwatto_cobra
  • Reply 60 of 81
    I think Apple is vulnerable here because they appear to have made exceptions for developers and apps like Amazon. Without a clear set of rules as to when fees are discounted etc that leaves them open to charges they are just running their own show. If they stuck to the guidelines across the board Epic has a much harder time. 

    Now, this is Apple’s ecosystem and they should be able to do what they want, however in today’s era of government and court overkill, they may well haves problem. 

    I am old enough to remember the cost of games and things before Apple and Google Play, so to me this is a ridiculous argument by Epic to begin with. They use Apple’s tools, hosting etc and want to dictate terms. 
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