The question is irrelevant but millions of people have 5G. 5G phones represent a huge chunk of the market already and the first wave of 5G phones is barely a year old.
Apple scurried to get 5G on this year's phones for a reason. Because they simply couldn't let it wait another year. That was very likely the main reason behind the QC kiss and make up deal. There was no way Apple could move into 2021 without 5G. That was unthinkable at literally every management tier within Apple and anywhere else.
If people can't actually see that and instead try to make excuses for Apple being behind it is because they are usually the same people who always make excuses for Apple being behind.
Aren't you now going to claim that Huawei stole Apple's 5G patents and rushed phones to market? That's what you usually do.
Secondly, the vast majority of phones bought last year (and this year) will definitely have access to 5G infrastructure during their useful lifetimes. Again, this should be obvious to most people.
Asking how many people have access to 5G now is an exercise in asking the wrong question.
Now, COVID has slowed down roll outs and Trump is doing his best to further stall adoption in order to allow US companies to get their act together.
We’ve had this discussion before - my perspective is very America-centric mainly because I live here, but there are several problems with 5G. In the US there is very little infrastructure in place and just like past generation upgrades, roll-outs have been significantly slower than initially promised. Beyond the availability is the lack of actual need. 5G has been hyped by the telecoms (and people here) as ‘the future’ that will allow great features, but no one quite knows what those features will be. Sure we all know about the blazing speeds - if you happen to be within spitting distance of an antenna with nothing blocking your view, and true LTE speeds are more than adequate for people’s needs now (if you can get them.) People talk about cars talking to each other and remote surgery, but those are not cell phone uses. Beyond that, many of the benefits of 5G require upgrades to the infrastructure backbone that will benefit everyone.
I agree it’s a chicken and egg problem - but it’s hard for me to get all worked up about a feature that has very little practical use right now, and likely won’t for at least a couple of years.
So, TWO false arguments!
First, because the U.S. is dragging its feet -- mostly on political grounds -- then the rest of the world (and Apple) should too? Really?
Second: saying it has no practical use is no different than those who said 4G had no benefit -- not because it didn't but because they're mind couldn't roam beyond the limited world of 3G. So, as I asked before: how's that 3G flip phone doing?
Here in the UK unless you live in or near a major city there is no 5G, so for most of us 5G is irrelevant T O D A Y !.
Finished that for you....
So, how long do you intend to keep your phone? And, do you intend to get any kind of resale on it when you do upgrade?
Buying an LTE phone today is like buying a buggy whip 100 years ago....
Hyperbole does your argument no favors. 5G phones without proper 5G access (majority of phone owners) is the proverbial cart before the horse. What good is a current 5G phone right now? We know 1. the tech is going to evolve and get better and 2. the infrastructure is also going to evolve and get better. Buying an LTE phone today is no more detrimental than buying an LTE phone a year ago. All 5G capable phones, are going to fall back to LTE network when the 5G network is unavailable. Similar to how our LTE fall back to 3G when LTE access isn't possible. mmWave and sub6 5G technology are still in their infancy. Being an early adopter simply means being an early adopter. There probably won't be any practical advantages of 5G for quite some time.
Not to mention, I’ve yet to see any practical advantages of 5G on a cell phone. Other than some potential download/upload speed increases I don’t understand why people think having a 5G phone is going to be so amazing.
Still enjoying your 3G flip phone? People said the same about 4G. "Who needs it?" "What will you do with it that you can't do right now?"
Advances in communications technology have driven most of how computing has changed our lives.
Tell me what my LTE phone does that was not possible on 3G. Then tell me what the people with 5G phones can do that my LTE phone can’t. Thanks!
When LTE was released people said exactly what you are saying now -- because they were stuck thinking that what they were doing and how they were doing it was how it wold always be. But, smart phones eclipsed desktop & laptop devices largely because of it. And, today, streaming high quality video is as common as the tiny, grainy little little 3G things we watched 5 years ago under 3G.
All this said is “faster downloads”. LTE didn’t improve video quality, it provided enough speed to make higher quality video reasonable to download. Case in point, I could watch a lower quality video over 3G OR connect to Wi-Fi and watch the same video in higher quality because I had a faster connection.
You still haven’t answered my question regarding what 5G will enable on my phone that can’t be done on LTE.
Perhaps you’re non-answer is leaning toward “wait and see”? Sort of like the response of “see what developers do with it” with regard to ARKit.
It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives.
The question is irrelevant but millions of people have 5G. 5G phones represent a huge chunk of the market already and the first wave of 5G phones is barely a year old.
I personally don’t know anyone who has a 5G phone yet. Can you tell me what amazing things people are doing with their 5G phones that couldn’t be done with their LTE phones? This is a serious question. Aside from DL/UL speed gains what is the benefit? What do those faster speeds enable that can’t be done on LTE?
Apart from the obvious aspects which you mention, there are a raft of benefits at a purely technological level.
Network Slicing will have a MAJOR impact on how things get done. Other things such as latency and QoS for mission critical scenarios are another.
Of course, 5G modules are already shipping on cars, too.
I understand that from a US perspective you may not see much worth right now but in the lifetime of for example, an iPhone 11, you will be seeing benefits in 5G appearing around you. If you happen to have an iPhone 11 though 5G is out of reach.
I think you are misunderstand the question. Most people here aren’t debating the merits of 5G as a technology, rather we are questioning the relevance of 5G capabilities for smartphones. Latency, QoS and 5G modules are cars are all valid but of little importance to general smartphone use.
Similarly, from the article you posted, network slicing helps with the network as a whole, but doesn’t seem to give any benefits to smartphone use.
I’m not deliberately trying to be difficult or obtuse here, but after people have been moaning and wailing for the last 2 years about the iPhone being doomed by the lack of 5G support. They said it was going to be all over the place by the end of 2019, that non-5G phones would be obsolete and promised a world of technological wonder enabled by 5G, yet here we are 2 years later and the benefits are still mainly theoretical.
Elsewhere it is all over the place and, except for a temporary slowdown from the pandemic, expanding rapidly -- particularly in those areas not blocked by U.S. obstructionism.
The U.S. needs to get over its egocentristic delusions.
But, even here, T-Mobile got off its duff and is rolling it out to underserved areas right here in the U.S. I live in a major U.S. city, yet 10-15 miles out of town and, at best I get 1 bar and far too often no bars. That needs to be fixed -- and it won't get fixed complaining about 5G. Instead T-Mobile IS fixing it -- with 5G.
The question is irrelevant but millions of people have 5G. 5G phones represent a huge chunk of the market already and the first wave of 5G phones is barely a year old.
I personally don’t know anyone who has a 5G phone yet. Can you tell me what amazing things people are doing with their 5G phones that couldn’t be done with their LTE phones? This is a serious question. Aside from DL/UL speed gains what is the benefit? What do those faster speeds enable that can’t be done on LTE?
Apart from the obvious aspects which you mention, there are a raft of benefits at a purely technological level.
Network Slicing will have a MAJOR impact on how things get done. Other things such as latency and QoS for mission critical scenarios are another.
Of course, 5G modules are already shipping on cars, too.
I understand that from a US perspective you may not see much worth right now but in the lifetime of for example, an iPhone 11, you will be seeing benefits in 5G appearing around you. If you happen to have an iPhone 11 though 5G is out of reach.
I think you are misunderstand the question. Most people here aren’t debating the merits of 5G as a technology, rather we are questioning the relevance of 5G capabilities for smartphones. Latency, QoS and 5G modules are cars are all valid but of little importance to general smartphone use.
Similarly, from the article you posted, network slicing helps with the network as a whole, but doesn’t seem to give any benefits to smartphone use.
I’m not deliberately trying to be difficult or obtuse here, but after people have been moaning and wailing for the last 2 years about the iPhone being doomed by the lack of 5G support. They said it was going to be all over the place by the end of 2019, that non-5G phones would be obsolete and promised a world of technological wonder enabled by 5G, yet here we are 2 years later and the benefits are still mainly theoretical.
Elsewhere it is all over the place and, except for a temporary slowdown from the pandemic, expanding rapidly -- particularly in those areas not blocked by U.S. obstructionism.
The U.S. needs to get over its egocentristic delusions.
But, even here, T-Mobile got off its duff and is rolling it out to underserved areas right here in the U.S. I live in a major U.S. city, yet 10-15 miles out of town and, at best I get 1 bar and far too often no bars. That needs to be fixed -- and it won't get fixed complaining about 5G. Instead T-Mobile IS fixing it -- with 5G.
You don't really think that we are buying what you are stating, do you?
Standalone mode will let T-Mobile subscribers get a "5G" icon in new rural areas and deeper into buildings than before. But it won't actually improve network capacity or speeds much more than using the spectrum for 4G would have.
"All things being equal, 5G performance and efficiency is 20-30 percent higher than LTE and this applies to 5G standalone as well," Kuoppamaki says. (That isn't news; he's been consistent on this for years.)
5G isn't magic. Its speed and capacity benefits over 4G mostly come from its ability to use more spectrum than 4G. But if carriers don't have more spectrum available than they would for 4G, it has 4G-like performance. T-Mobile's low-band network operates in 4G-sized channels. Its mid-band 2.5GHz network, on the other hand, has more airwaves available and may show better performance as it spreads to cities nationwide. That network is currently available in Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and New York, according to a T-Mobile update from early July."
With the exception of a few locations, and for the short to medium term, most users won't see much, if any, performance benefits of 5G; it's just more evolution.
Here in the UK unless you live in or near a major city there is no 5G, so for most of us 5G is irrelevant T O D A Y !.
Finished that for you....
So, how long do you intend to keep your phone? And, do you intend to get any kind of resale on it when you do upgrade?
Buying an LTE phone today is like buying a buggy whip 100 years ago....
Hyperbole does your argument no favors. 5G phones without proper 5G access (majority of phone owners) is the proverbial cart before the horse. What good is a current 5G phone right now? We know 1. the tech is going to evolve and get better and 2. the infrastructure is also going to evolve and get better. Buying an LTE phone today is no more detrimental than buying an LTE phone a year ago. All 5G capable phones, are going to fall back to LTE network when the 5G network is unavailable. Similar to how our LTE fall back to 3G when LTE access isn't possible. mmWave and sub6 5G technology are still in their infancy. Being an early adopter simply means being an early adopter. There probably won't be any practical advantages of 5G for quite some time.
Not to mention, I’ve yet to see any practical advantages of 5G on a cell phone. Other than some potential download/upload speed increases I don’t understand why people think having a 5G phone is going to be so amazing.
Still enjoying your 3G flip phone? People said the same about 4G. "Who needs it?" "What will you do with it that you can't do right now?"
Advances in communications technology have driven most of how computing has changed our lives.
Tell me what my LTE phone does that was not possible on 3G. Then tell me what the people with 5G phones can do that my LTE phone can’t. Thanks!
When LTE was released people said exactly what you are saying now -- because they were stuck thinking that what they were doing and how they were doing it was how it wold always be. But, smart phones eclipsed desktop & laptop devices largely because of it. And, today, streaming high quality video is as common as the tiny, grainy little little 3G things we watched 5 years ago under 3G.
All this said is “faster downloads”. LTE didn’t improve video quality, it provided enough speed to make higher quality video reasonable to download. Case in point, I could watch a lower quality video over 3G OR connect to Wi-Fi and watch the same video in higher quality because I had a faster connection.
You still haven’t answered my question regarding what 5G will enable on my phone that can’t be done on LTE.
Perhaps you’re non-answer is leaning toward “wait and see”? Sort of like the response of “see what developers do with it” with regard to ARKit.
It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives.
You still aren’t answering my question. If I asked you, “Why do I need an 8-slice toaster?” I imagine your response would be, “Ha ha! That’s the same thing you asked when the 4-slice toaster came out” which is not an answer at all.
As has already been pointed out, you’re off base with the 3G to 4G/LTE question, too. Going from 3G to LTE had appreciable gains in speed that people would notice immediately, it was like going from dial-up to broadband. Everyone with a 2.5G or 3G phone knew that their download speeds were fairly poor.
At least @"avon b7" is trying to give relevant answers (although, I’m not sure the 5G connected toilet is due to 5G, just that 5G makes sense to add because it’s obviously where things are headed).
In my wife’s industry they’re working on something similar to “this tool is available to you right now, go here for it” and one of the technologies it will support is 5G, but that isn’t because of a capability that 5G offers, it’s because it would make less sense to not include it as 5G is the next step in mobile connectivity. If they rolled out that product and capped it at LTE it would still work, exactly as it would with 5G, but then would need a hardware upgrade sooner. Again, 5G’s incorporation in this instance is not due to a capability that doesn’t exist with LTE.
Here in the UK unless you live in or near a major city there is no 5G, so for most of us 5G is irrelevant T O D A Y !.
Finished that for you....
So, how long do you intend to keep your phone? And, do you intend to get any kind of resale on it when you do upgrade?
Buying an LTE phone today is like buying a buggy whip 100 years ago....
Hyperbole does your argument no favors. 5G phones without proper 5G access (majority of phone owners) is the proverbial cart before the horse. What good is a current 5G phone right now? We know 1. the tech is going to evolve and get better and 2. the infrastructure is also going to evolve and get better. Buying an LTE phone today is no more detrimental than buying an LTE phone a year ago. All 5G capable phones, are going to fall back to LTE network when the 5G network is unavailable. Similar to how our LTE fall back to 3G when LTE access isn't possible. mmWave and sub6 5G technology are still in their infancy. Being an early adopter simply means being an early adopter. There probably won't be any practical advantages of 5G for quite some time.
Not to mention, I’ve yet to see any practical advantages of 5G on a cell phone. Other than some potential download/upload speed increases I don’t understand why people think having a 5G phone is going to be so amazing.
Still enjoying your 3G flip phone? People said the same about 4G. "Who needs it?" "What will you do with it that you can't do right now?"
Advances in communications technology have driven most of how computing has changed our lives.
Tell me what my LTE phone does that was not possible on 3G. Then tell me what the people with 5G phones can do that my LTE phone can’t. Thanks!
When LTE was released people said exactly what you are saying now -- because they were stuck thinking that what they were doing and how they were doing it was how it wold always be. But, smart phones eclipsed desktop & laptop devices largely because of it. And, today, streaming high quality video is as common as the tiny, grainy little little 3G things we watched 5 years ago under 3G.
All this said is “faster downloads”. LTE didn’t improve video quality, it provided enough speed to make higher quality video reasonable to download. Case in point, I could watch a lower quality video over 3G OR connect to Wi-Fi and watch the same video in higher quality because I had a faster connection.
You still haven’t answered my question regarding what 5G will enable on my phone that can’t be done on LTE.
Perhaps you’re non-answer is leaning toward “wait and see”? Sort of like the response of “see what developers do with it” with regard to ARKit.
It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives.
You still aren’t answering my question. If I asked you, “Why do I need an 8-slice toaster?” I imagine you’re response would be, “Ha ha! That’s the same thing you asked when the 4-slice toaster came out” which is not an answer at all.
As has already been pointed out, you’re off base with the 3G to 4G/LTE question, too. Going from 3G to LTE had appreciable gains in speed that people would notice immediately, it was like going from dial-up to broadband. Everyone with a 2.5G or 3G phone knew that their download speeds were fairly poor.
At least @"avon b7" is trying to give relevant answers
The question is irrelevant but millions of people have 5G. 5G phones represent a huge chunk of the market already and the first wave of 5G phones is barely a year old.
I personally don’t know anyone who has a 5G phone yet. Can you tell me what amazing things people are doing with their 5G phones that couldn’t be done with their LTE phones? This is a serious question. Aside from DL/UL speed gains what is the benefit? What do those faster speeds enable that can’t be done on LTE?
Apart from the obvious aspects which you mention, there are a raft of benefits at a purely technological level.
Network Slicing will have a MAJOR impact on how things get done. Other things such as latency and QoS for mission critical scenarios are another.
Of course, 5G modules are already shipping on cars, too.
I understand that from a US perspective you may not see much worth right now but in the lifetime of for example, an iPhone 11, you will be seeing benefits in 5G appearing around you. If you happen to have an iPhone 11 though 5G is out of reach.
I think you are misunderstand the question. Most people here aren’t debating the merits of 5G as a technology, rather we are questioning the relevance of 5G capabilities for smartphones. Latency, QoS and 5G modules are cars are all valid but of little importance to general smartphone use.
Similarly, from the article you posted, network slicing helps with the network as a whole, but doesn’t seem to give any benefits to smartphone use.
I’m not deliberately trying to be difficult or obtuse here, but after people have been moaning and wailing for the last 2 years about the iPhone being doomed by the lack of 5G support. They said it was going to be all over the place by the end of 2019, that non-5G phones would be obsolete and promised a world of technological wonder enabled by 5G, yet here we are 2 years later and the benefits are still mainly theoretical.
Elsewhere it is all over the place and, except for a temporary slowdown from the pandemic, expanding rapidly -- particularly in those areas not blocked by U.S. obstructionism.
The U.S. needs to get over its egocentristic delusions.
But, even here, T-Mobile got off its duff and is rolling it out to underserved areas right here in the U.S. I live in a major U.S. city, yet 10-15 miles out of town and, at best I get 1 bar and far too often no bars. That needs to be fixed -- and it won't get fixed complaining about 5G. Instead T-Mobile IS fixing it -- with 5G.
You don't really think that we are buying what you are stating, do you?
Here in the UK unless you live in or near a major city there is no 5G, so for most of us 5G is irrelevant T O D A Y !.
Finished that for you....
So, how long do you intend to keep your phone? And, do you intend to get any kind of resale on it when you do upgrade?
Buying an LTE phone today is like buying a buggy whip 100 years ago....
Hyperbole does your argument no favors. 5G phones without proper 5G access (majority of phone owners) is the proverbial cart before the horse. What good is a current 5G phone right now? We know 1. the tech is going to evolve and get better and 2. the infrastructure is also going to evolve and get better. Buying an LTE phone today is no more detrimental than buying an LTE phone a year ago. All 5G capable phones, are going to fall back to LTE network when the 5G network is unavailable. Similar to how our LTE fall back to 3G when LTE access isn't possible. mmWave and sub6 5G technology are still in their infancy. Being an early adopter simply means being an early adopter. There probably won't be any practical advantages of 5G for quite some time.
Not to mention, I’ve yet to see any practical advantages of 5G on a cell phone. Other than some potential download/upload speed increases I don’t understand why people think having a 5G phone is going to be so amazing.
Still enjoying your 3G flip phone? People said the same about 4G. "Who needs it?" "What will you do with it that you can't do right now?"
Advances in communications technology have driven most of how computing has changed our lives.
Tell me what my LTE phone does that was not possible on 3G. Then tell me what the people with 5G phones can do that my LTE phone can’t. Thanks!
When LTE was released people said exactly what you are saying now -- because they were stuck thinking that what they were doing and how they were doing it was how it wold always be. But, smart phones eclipsed desktop & laptop devices largely because of it. And, today, streaming high quality video is as common as the tiny, grainy little little 3G things we watched 5 years ago under 3G.
All this said is “faster downloads”. LTE didn’t improve video quality, it provided enough speed to make higher quality video reasonable to download. Case in point, I could watch a lower quality video over 3G OR connect to Wi-Fi and watch the same video in higher quality because I had a faster connection.
You still haven’t answered my question regarding what 5G will enable on my phone that can’t be done on LTE.
Perhaps you’re non-answer is leaning toward “wait and see”? Sort of like the response of “see what developers do with it” with regard to ARKit.
It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives.
You still aren’t answering my question. .....I
I did.
"It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do
with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate
major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives."
Comments
It's the same false question people asked about 4G: "What can you do with 4G that you can't do with 3G? Yet, somehow 4G managed to generate major changes in mobile computing and how we lead our lives.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/tmobile-5g-coverage-expands-with-standalone-launch
"Will SA Improve Performance?
Standalone mode will let T-Mobile subscribers get a "5G" icon in new rural areas and deeper into buildings than before. But it won't actually improve network capacity or speeds much more than using the spectrum for 4G would have.
"All things being equal, 5G performance and efficiency is 20-30 percent higher than LTE and this applies to 5G standalone as well," Kuoppamaki says. (That isn't news; he's been consistent on this for years.)
5G isn't magic. Its speed and capacity benefits over 4G mostly come from its ability to use more spectrum than 4G. But if carriers don't have more spectrum available than they would for 4G, it has 4G-like performance. T-Mobile's low-band network operates in 4G-sized channels. Its mid-band 2.5GHz network, on the other hand, has more airwaves available and may show better performance as it spreads to cities nationwide. That network is currently available in Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, and New York, according to a T-Mobile update from early July."
With the exception of a few locations, and for the short to medium term, most users won't see much, if any, performance benefits of 5G; it's just more evolution.
As has already been pointed out, you’re off base with the 3G to 4G/LTE question, too. Going from 3G to LTE had appreciable gains in speed that people would notice immediately, it was like going from dial-up to broadband. Everyone with a 2.5G or 3G phone knew that their download speeds were fairly poor.
At least @"avon b7" is trying to give relevant answers (although, I’m not sure the 5G connected toilet is due to 5G, just that 5G makes sense to add because it’s obviously where things are headed).
In my wife’s industry they’re working on something similar to “this tool is available to you right now, go here for it” and one of the technologies it will support is 5G, but that isn’t because of a capability that 5G offers, it’s because it would make less sense to not include it as 5G is the next step in mobile connectivity. If they rolled out that product and capped it at LTE it would still work, exactly as it would with 5G, but then would need a hardware upgrade sooner. Again, 5G’s incorporation in this instance is not due to a capability that doesn’t exist with LTE.