Nvidia buying ARM for record-breaking $40 billion

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 57
    What’s the likelihood that Apple transition to RISC-V architecture if all else fails with Nvidia?
  • Reply 42 of 57
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tmay said:
    davgreg said:
    It will be interesting to watch this play out and the deal is not done by a long shot.

    ARM is a British company and the UK is still trying to sort out Brexit. Also, NVIDIA only promised to keep the HQ of ARM in the UK for one year- expect that to be a problem for the approval of the UK government. 

    And Apple has made no public comment to my knowledge. They might very well have a problem with the deal and may try to spike it. And I do not think Apple is ready to abandon ARM reference designs as the basis for the A series chips that run every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch and soon many Macintoshes.

    The only thing having a headquarters in the UK means is jobs.   Control of the company moves to the U.S.  -- and that means Trump can dictate who they do business with.  I can't imagine ANY right thinking person going along with that.   But then Boris is another Trump shill -- should I say:  "Like Trump, a Putin shill".  So.....
    You seem completely unaware of the possibility during the upcoming election, that there will be a different Administration in place when this sale is decided.

    Would you have the same concerns under a Biden Administration, if the Headquarters of ARM was moved to Santa Clara?

    No, I wouldn't -- because Biden would not be foolish enough to do the stuff that Trump is doing -- like dictating who companies can do business with and who they can't -- and switch back and forth as the wind changes.

    But, as I said, where the headquarters are located means nothing except jobs -- as an American company Trump will take full control of where and how they do business just as we have seen him do dozens of times over the past couple years.

    As I posted previously from the BBC:
    Moreover, the two co-founders [of ARM] also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    The fact is:  no American president has ever done anything like that before Trump and, once Trump is gone, we should expect to return to normality -- at least with Biden anyway.
    Biden's Administration wouldn't limit ARM access to China except for National Security reasons, and should that limitation occur, I would be in agreement 100%.
    DuhSesame
  • Reply 43 of 57
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member

    Rayz2016 said:

    tmay said:
    techconc said:
    tmay said:
    techconc said:
    flydog said:
    Nonsense.  Apple doesn’t rely on ARM for design or manufacturing. It has a perpetual license that allow it to design its own chips.
    You either didn’t read or didn’t understand my post as your comment doesn’t address what I actually said.  

    By definition, a perpetual license for the ISA would cover all future versions, and while ARM may very well have a maintenance fee structure in place with Apple to maintain that license in perpetuity, it is more likely that Apple negotiated and paid a lump sum for that perpetual license.

    Apple has deviated from the ISA at least since the A7 SOC, and again by definition, Apple would have created a superset of the ISA, which would be proprietary to Apple. I can't imagine that this would have any noticeable impact on the virtualization of Linux. though it might require some small effort.

    It is conceivable that in the future, Nvidia might attempt to increase licensing fees "unreasonably", or deprecate all external licensing, leading to a hellscape of legal jeopardy, which would ultimately lead, I suspect, to an external caretaker that would take over management of the ARM operation. That seems unlikely to happen.

    Again, by definition, Apple would have guarantees and penalties written into any contracts that they would have enjoined with ARM. That's what Apple's legal department is for.

    Not to beat a dead horse... I agree with what you've written.  My original comment on this thread what that Apple is UNLIKELY to deviate from ARM ISA standards.  If they do so, they'd keep compatibility with ARM ISA and perhaps include a superset of that ISA.  The point I was making was about retaining compatibility.  Unfortunately, the reading impaired such as flydog interpreted that as Apple being dependent upon ARM design or manufacturing (which I did not say).  The reason I wrote that was because the author of this story expects Apple to move away from the ARM ISA over time.  I don't see that happening.  Do you? 
    Much of the basis of my posts is that Apple wants to increase resilience, and will work out viable contingency plans for those unexpected "black swan" events when possible. I expect that Apple is creating a superset pf ARM's ISA, and at the same time, is exploring ISA alternatives, including creation from scratch. I don't expect that Apple is in any hurry to abandon that ARM ISA, and I don't believe that they will have to.


    I guess this depends on whether or not Apple can eke some advantage by going with their own instruction set. Aside from any extensions they may have already made, I wonder what else they could do. 
    So do I.
  • Reply 44 of 57
    cpsrocpsro Posts: 3,182member
    Is the Oracle vs. Alphabet legal conflict resolved concerning the Java language? Because if Oracle lost, that would suggest Apple could get away with NOT licensing the ARM ISA.
  • Reply 45 of 57
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    dysamoria said:
    Personally, I don’t find that quote to be scary at all. I find it to be a bunch of babbling nonsense. Everything that has the term “AI” thrown at it today isn’t remotely apropos of the term. The only place AI “exists” is in sci-fi/techno-fantasy. The quote is just another one of those fad-filled grandiose statements that corporations make to puff up their self-importance and stock prices.
    I think it has an important role, but AI is the wrong term. ML is the better term. And, what it will be applied to and doing is the stuff of sci-fi in much of the media.
    But, you're absolutely correct about the techno-babble around it and valuation and such.
  • Reply 46 of 57
    cloudguy said:
    DuhSesame said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    tmay said:
    avon b7 said:
    Without knowing the terms of the agreement, my gut feeling is this won't get through regulatory approval for similar reasons to why Trump blocked a posible Broadcom sale that could have seen IP move to China.

    Risc-V is already making big strides and is extremely scalable.

    Trump's protectionist and system-wrecking actions have accelerated the move by more companies to start Risc-V development projects to test commercial viability in the mid term. 
    Nvidia stated that they would maintain ARM main offices in the UK, and that is sufficient for approval.
    My feeling is that it will require much more than that for approval. 

    The deal will be combed over with a fine tooth comb and then there is the whole ARM China situation to be considered, too. 
    I find it interesting, and ironic, that Risk V, originating in Berkeley, will move its headquarters to Switzerland, and continue serving bad actors, as well as good, authoritarian powers, as well as democracies, all in the name of open source, and zero licensing costs.

    What a wonderful world of surveillance, human rights violations, and smart weapons awaits us.
    Imagination also loves China.  Sometimes I do questioned myself about the tech world.
    So does Apple but it is fine when they do it, right?
     I do questioned myself about the tech world.

  • Reply 47 of 57
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    davgreg said:
    It will be interesting to watch this play out and the deal is not done by a long shot.

    ARM is a British company and the UK is still trying to sort out Brexit. Also, NVIDIA only promised to keep the HQ of ARM in the UK for one year- expect that to be a problem for the approval of the UK government. 

    And Apple has made no public comment to my knowledge. They might very well have a problem with the deal and may try to spike it. And I do not think Apple is ready to abandon ARM reference designs as the basis for the A series chips that run every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch and soon many Macintoshes.

    The only thing having a headquarters in the UK means is jobs.   Control of the company moves to the U.S.  -- and that means Trump can dictate who they do business with.  I can't imagine ANY right thinking person going along with that.   But then Boris is another Trump shill -- should I say:  "Like Trump, a Putin shill".  So.....
    You seem completely unaware of the possibility during the upcoming election, that there will be a different Administration in place when this sale is decided.

    Would you have the same concerns under a Biden Administration, if the Headquarters of ARM was moved to Santa Clara?

    No, I wouldn't -- because Biden would not be foolish enough to do the stuff that Trump is doing -- like dictating who companies can do business with and who they can't -- and switch back and forth as the wind changes.

    But, as I said, where the headquarters are located means nothing except jobs -- as an American company Trump will take full control of where and how they do business just as we have seen him do dozens of times over the past couple years.

    As I posted previously from the BBC:
    Moreover, the two co-founders [of ARM] also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    The fact is:  no American president has ever done anything like that before Trump and, once Trump is gone, we should expect to return to normality -- at least with Biden anyway.
    Biden's Administration wouldn't limit ARM access to China except for National Security reasons, and should that limitation occur, I would be in agreement 100%.

    The key difference is:   Biden would not lie and use "National Security" as an excuse to implement a (misguided) trade policy or to fulfill some political agenda.
  • Reply 48 of 57
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,238member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    davgreg said:
    It will be interesting to watch this play out and the deal is not done by a long shot.

    ARM is a British company and the UK is still trying to sort out Brexit. Also, NVIDIA only promised to keep the HQ of ARM in the UK for one year- expect that to be a problem for the approval of the UK government. 

    And Apple has made no public comment to my knowledge. They might very well have a problem with the deal and may try to spike it. And I do not think Apple is ready to abandon ARM reference designs as the basis for the A series chips that run every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch and soon many Macintoshes.

    The only thing having a headquarters in the UK means is jobs.   Control of the company moves to the U.S.  -- and that means Trump can dictate who they do business with.  I can't imagine ANY right thinking person going along with that.   But then Boris is another Trump shill -- should I say:  "Like Trump, a Putin shill".  So.....
    You seem completely unaware of the possibility during the upcoming election, that there will be a different Administration in place when this sale is decided.

    Would you have the same concerns under a Biden Administration, if the Headquarters of ARM was moved to Santa Clara?

    No, I wouldn't -- because Biden would not be foolish enough to do the stuff that Trump is doing -- like dictating who companies can do business with and who they can't -- and switch back and forth as the wind changes.

    But, as I said, where the headquarters are located means nothing except jobs -- as an American company Trump will take full control of where and how they do business just as we have seen him do dozens of times over the past couple years.

    As I posted previously from the BBC:
    Moreover, the two co-founders [of ARM] also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    The fact is:  no American president has ever done anything like that before Trump and, once Trump is gone, we should expect to return to normality -- at least with Biden anyway.
    Biden's Administration wouldn't limit ARM access to China except for National Security reasons, and should that limitation occur, I would be in agreement 100%.

    The key difference is:   Biden would not lie and use "National Security" as an excuse to implement a (misguided) trade policy or to fulfill some political agenda.
    So would you be okay with trade restrictions for National Security reasons or Human Rights violations?

    "honestly the best way to think about Chinese firms' relationship with the CCP is like the Matrix; they're independent actors with their own wills and desires who can *also* at any moment be taken over and directed by the CCP and the security services "



  • Reply 49 of 57
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?
    tmay
  • Reply 50 of 57
    tmay said:
    davgreg said:
    It will be interesting to watch this play out and the deal is not done by a long shot.

    ARM is a British company and the UK is still trying to sort out Brexit. Also, NVIDIA only promised to keep the HQ of ARM in the UK for one year- expect that to be a problem for the approval of the UK government. 

    And Apple has made no public comment to my knowledge. They might very well have a problem with the deal and may try to spike it. And I do not think Apple is ready to abandon ARM reference designs as the basis for the A series chips that run every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch and soon many Macintoshes.

    The only thing having a headquarters in the UK means is jobs.   Control of the company moves to the U.S.  -- and that means Trump can dictate who they do business with.  I can't imagine ANY right thinking person going along with that.   But then Boris is another Trump shill -- should I say:  "Like Trump, a Putin shill".  So.....
    You seem completely unaware of the possibility during the upcoming election, that there will be a different Administration in place when this sale is decided.

    Would you have the same concerns under a Biden Administration, if the Headquarters of ARM was moved to Santa Clara?
    Well, Claris have moved out of the wedge, so there's some prime real estate available... :)
    tmay
  • Reply 51 of 57
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    davgreg said:
    It will be interesting to watch this play out and the deal is not done by a long shot.

    ARM is a British company and the UK is still trying to sort out Brexit. Also, NVIDIA only promised to keep the HQ of ARM in the UK for one year- expect that to be a problem for the approval of the UK government. 

    And Apple has made no public comment to my knowledge. They might very well have a problem with the deal and may try to spike it. And I do not think Apple is ready to abandon ARM reference designs as the basis for the A series chips that run every iPhone, iPad, iPod Touch and soon many Macintoshes.

    The only thing having a headquarters in the UK means is jobs.   Control of the company moves to the U.S.  -- and that means Trump can dictate who they do business with.  I can't imagine ANY right thinking person going along with that.   But then Boris is another Trump shill -- should I say:  "Like Trump, a Putin shill".  So.....
    You seem completely unaware of the possibility during the upcoming election, that there will be a different Administration in place when this sale is decided.

    Would you have the same concerns under a Biden Administration, if the Headquarters of ARM was moved to Santa Clara?

    No, I wouldn't -- because Biden would not be foolish enough to do the stuff that Trump is doing -- like dictating who companies can do business with and who they can't -- and switch back and forth as the wind changes.

    But, as I said, where the headquarters are located means nothing except jobs -- as an American company Trump will take full control of where and how they do business just as we have seen him do dozens of times over the past couple years.

    As I posted previously from the BBC:
    Moreover, the two co-founders [of ARM] also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    The fact is:  no American president has ever done anything like that before Trump and, once Trump is gone, we should expect to return to normality -- at least with Biden anyway.
    Biden's Administration wouldn't limit ARM access to China except for National Security reasons, and should that limitation occur, I would be in agreement 100%.

    The key difference is:   Biden would not lie and use "National Security" as an excuse to implement a (misguided) trade policy or to fulfill some political agenda.
    So would you be okay with trade restrictions for National Security reasons or Human Rights violations?

    "honestly the best way to think about Chinese firms' relationship with the CCP is like the Matrix; they're independent actors with their own wills and desires who can *also* at any moment be taken over and directed by the CCP and the security services "




    As i said:
    "...   Biden would not lie and use "National Security" as an excuse to implement a (misguided) trade policy or to fulfill some political agenda."
  • Reply 52 of 57
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?

    No, it wasn't.   Softbank is not an American company.   This move enables Trump to take his stupid games to whole new level deciding who ARM can do business with.   The UK should be very leery of putting their premier tech company under the heel of Donald Trump.
    edited September 2020
  • Reply 53 of 57
    razorpitrazorpit Posts: 1,796member
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?

    No, it wasn't.   Softbank is not an American company.   This move enables Trump to take his stupid games to whole new level deciding who ARM can do business with.   The UK should be very leery of putting their premier tech company under the heel of Donald Trump.
    My older response to you was deleted but following this thread I have to ask, do you have some form of turrets syndrome where “Trump” is injected in to your speech? Give it a rest already.
    edited September 2020 cgWerks
  • Reply 54 of 57
    razorpit said:
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?

    No, it wasn't.   Softbank is not an American company.   This move enables Trump to take his stupid games to whole new level deciding who ARM can do business with.   The UK should be very leery of putting their premier tech company under the heel of Donald Trump.
    My older response to you was deleted but following this thread I have to ask, do you have some form of turrets syndrome where “Trump” is injected in to your speech? Give it a rest already.

    LOL...   It is Trump who is fabricating smear campaigns against foreign companies to distract from his own incompetence and corruption.   And, it wasn't just me warning that letting Trump gain control of ARM would be a dangerous thing for ARM, the UK and the world, it was on of the founders of ARM.   Sorry, but Chump is the root of the problem.

    As further proof that Trump is fabricating allegations -- smear campaigns -- against foreign companies:   In addition to him being unable to furnish a shred of evidence against his Huawei smears, yesterday the WTO ruled that Trump broke the law with his tariffs based on unsubstantiated allegations that China stool IP from America.  Specifically, from the BBC:
    "The WTO said the US did not provide evidence that its claims of China's unfair technology theft and state aid justified the border taxes. .... It added that the US had not proved its case that the tariffs were justified on moral grounds because it did not show how the products affected by the duties had benefited from the unfair practices.

    "The panel found, accordingly, that the US had not met its burden of demonstrating that the measures are provisionally justified," it said.:

    Essentially, the WTO called Bull to Trump's Bull!

    Of course Trump and his minions responded by attacking the WTO -- which is comical because the WTO represents "Law and Order" in international trade -- which is Trump's main platform here in the U.S.!    But, Trump obviously makes up, one might say 'Trumps Up', his own law and his own order in ways to benefit himself.

    But, more relevant to this case, the WTO ruling justifies concerns that Trump will misuse his power over ARM once he has control of it because he has been operating outside and above international law using the power of the presidency to illegally attack foreign companies.   And, putting ARM under his control will simply give him additional ammunition to use against the company and country of his choice.   It's like handing a bazooka to a New York mob boss.   It simply won't end well.

    edited September 2020
  • Reply 55 of 57
    razorpit said:
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?

    No, it wasn't.   Softbank is not an American company.   This move enables Trump to take his stupid games to whole new level deciding who ARM can do business with.   The UK should be very leery of putting their premier tech company under the heel of Donald Trump.
    My older response to you was deleted but following this thread I have to ask, do you have some form of turrets syndrome where “Trump” is injected in to your speech? Give it a rest already.

    LOL...   It is Trump who is fabricating smear campaigns against foreign companies to distract from his own incompetence and corruption.   And, it wasn't just me warning that letting Trump gain control of ARM would be a dangerous thing for ARM, the UK and the world, it was on of the founders of ARM.   Sorry, but Chump is the root of the problem.

    As further proof that Trump is fabricating allegations -- smear campaigns -- against foreign companies:   In addition to him being unable to furnish a shred of evidence against his Huawei smears, yesterday the WTO ruled that Trump broke the law with his tariffs based on unsubstantiated allegations that China stool IP from America.  Specifically, from the BBC:
    "The WTO said the US did not provide evidence that its claims of China's unfair technology theft and state aid justified the border taxes. .... It added that the US had not proved its case that the tariffs were justified on moral grounds because it did not show how the products affected by the duties had benefited from the unfair practices.

    "The panel found, accordingly, that the US had not met its burden of demonstrating that the measures are provisionally justified," it said.:

    Essentially, the WTO called Bull to Trump's Bull!

    Of course Trump and his minions responded by attacking the WTO -- which is comical because the WTO represents "Law and Order" in international trade -- which is Trump's main platform here in the U.S.!    But, Trump obviously makes up, one might say 'Trumps Up', his own law and his own order in ways to benefit himself.

    But, more relevant to this case, the WTO ruling justifies concerns that Trump will misuse his power over ARM once he has control of it because he has been operating outside and above international law using the power of the presidency to illegally attack foreign companies.   And, putting ARM under his control will simply give him additional ammunition to use against the company and country of his choice.   It's like handing a bazooka to a New York mob boss.   It simply won't end well.


    Just to be clear... you believe that China does not unfairly steal IP and give state aid to help their companies compete globally?  And you believe this because of your hatred and disdain for Trump?
    techconccgWerks
  • Reply 56 of 57
    razorpit said:
    The danger to the world's tech industry comes not only from NVIDIA but from Trump and the U.S.    From the BBC:

    "But two of ARM's co-founders have raised other issues about the takeover.

    Hermann Hauser and Tudor Brown had suggested ARM should remain "neutral", rather than be owned by a company like Nvidia, which produces its own processors.
    The concern is that there would be a conflict of interest since ARM's clients would become dependent on a business with which many also compete for sales.

    Moreover, the two co-founders also claimed that once ARM was owned by an American firm, Washington could try to block Chinese companies from using its knowhow as part of a wider trade clash between the countries.

    "If ARM becomes a US subsidiary of a US company, it falls under the Cfius [Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States] regulations," Mr Hauser told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.

    "[That] means that if hundreds of UK companies that incorporate ARM's [technology] in their products, want to sell it, and export it to anywhere in the world including China - which is a major market - the decision on whether they will be allowed to export it will be made in the White House and not in Downing Street."


    Quite obviously the U.S. has become an unreliable partner -- violating agreements at will and trying to dictate who can do business with who.
    In this case, the potential ramifications for U.S. bullying have escalated considerably.   So, the BBC further reports:

    "But experts say one risk Nvidia faces is that the takeover could encourage ARM's wider client list to shift focus to a rival type of chip technology, which lags behind in terms of adoption but has the benefit of not being controlled by one company.

    "ARM is facing growing competition from RISC-V, an open-source architecture," wrote CCS Insight's Geoff Blaber in a recent research note.

    "If its partners believed that ARM's integrity and independence was compromised, it would accelerate the growth of RISC-V and in the process devalue ARM."
    Mr Blaber also suggested regulators might block the deal.

    "This process will take months if not years with a high chance of failure," he told the BBC."

    And, that last is an important note:   Why would Britain hand over control of one of its premier organizations to Donald Trump?  Or, why would China approve it?   Trump has essentially declared war on them and this would just add more bullets to his arsenal.

    You can bet that both companies and countries will be actively looking for and promoting alternatives to ARM if this shows any signs of actually going through because this sale poses an existential threat to them.
    So, none of this was a concern while ARM was owned by SoftBank?

    No, it wasn't.   Softbank is not an American company.   This move enables Trump to take his stupid games to whole new level deciding who ARM can do business with.   The UK should be very leery of putting their premier tech company under the heel of Donald Trump.
    My older response to you was deleted but following this thread I have to ask, do you have some form of turrets syndrome where “Trump” is injected in to your speech? Give it a rest already.

    LOL...   It is Trump who is fabricating smear campaigns against foreign companies to distract from his own incompetence and corruption.   And, it wasn't just me warning that letting Trump gain control of ARM would be a dangerous thing for ARM, the UK and the world, it was on of the founders of ARM.   Sorry, but Chump is the root of the problem.

    As further proof that Trump is fabricating allegations -- smear campaigns -- against foreign companies:   In addition to him being unable to furnish a shred of evidence against his Huawei smears, yesterday the WTO ruled that Trump broke the law with his tariffs based on unsubstantiated allegations that China stool IP from America.  Specifically, from the BBC:
    "The WTO said the US did not provide evidence that its claims of China's unfair technology theft and state aid justified the border taxes. .... It added that the US had not proved its case that the tariffs were justified on moral grounds because it did not show how the products affected by the duties had benefited from the unfair practices.

    "The panel found, accordingly, that the US had not met its burden of demonstrating that the measures are provisionally justified," it said.:

    Essentially, the WTO called Bull to Trump's Bull!

    Of course Trump and his minions responded by attacking the WTO -- which is comical because the WTO represents "Law and Order" in international trade -- which is Trump's main platform here in the U.S.!    But, Trump obviously makes up, one might say 'Trumps Up', his own law and his own order in ways to benefit himself.

    But, more relevant to this case, the WTO ruling justifies concerns that Trump will misuse his power over ARM once he has control of it because he has been operating outside and above international law using the power of the presidency to illegally attack foreign companies.   And, putting ARM under his control will simply give him additional ammunition to use against the company and country of his choice.   It's like handing a bazooka to a New York mob boss.   It simply won't end well.


    Just to be clear... you believe that China does not unfairly steal IP and give state aid to help their companies compete globally?  And you believe this because of your hatred and disdain for Trump?

    There is no more evidence that China steals IP than that Huawei is a security threat.   Just a lot of allegations.
    In reality, every country spies on others (inlcuding the U.S.) and every company spies on other companies.   To cherry pick one is, well, bullshit -- especially since there is no evidence to back up the allegations.   If there were, it would have gone to court --either in the U.S. or an international court.   But there is no evidence.  Just a well organized smear campaign to slow down the world's fastest growing economy before it passes us by.

    And, I believe that because it is reality.  Trump is not worth the hate.   Disgust and contempt yes.   But not hate. 
  • Reply 57 of 57
    cgWerkscgWerks Posts: 2,952member
    GeorgeBMac said:
    As i said:
    "...   Biden would not lie and use "National Security" as an excuse to implement a (misguided) trade policy or to fulfill some political agenda."
    What makes you think that? He's a neocon, they pull all kinds of stuff to accomplish their end goals. Have you heard of Ukraine or Syria, for example?

    GeorgeBMac said:
    ... which is comical because the WTO represents "Law and Order" in international trade
    ... It's like handing a bazooka to a New York mob boss.   It simply won't end well.

    It's funny you'd use that analogy, as it is quite fitting to the WTO as well. Law and order... yes, like a mob boss. So, maybe this is more like a turf-war with one mob boss against another?
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