We can no longer trust anything this now highly politicized Justice Department does or says.
Google has long been the target of conservatives angry that their propaganda and conspiracy theories don't pop up at the top of every search. Now, they have the long arm of the law to twist arms and insure that that happens.
Right, because we could trust it under the previous administration. You know, the one that spied on a presidential campaign using fake, foreign information. The one that drummed up a fake case against General Flynn, Carter Page and George Papadopoulos? The one that refused to prosecute Hillary Clinton despite massive evidence of guilt? That one?
Apple's next which will be good for the millions of their customers and those developing software for the platform. I look forward to a the time when these monopolies have been wrangled and technology can bring us real advancements again.
I don't think Apple is next. Not all monopolies are illegal. In fact, it's a stretch to call the App Store a monopoly. You have to use it if you want to use Apple's products. But there are other products that don't require it. It's just not the same. Unless it's shown that Apple is illegally harming competing software developers in favor of their own products, it's not the same case.
Ask a developer what they think of the App Store, monopolies in a capitalist society show the failure of the system, a lively competitive market is over when a monopoly has been reached in any industry. Monopoly = no pressure to improve your service or product, no completion in pricing for those products or services, innovation slows to a crawl. Apple has been snatching up small companies for a couple of decades now, in reality they either used the technology those companies have developed or keep it from ever being competition to Apple's products. This is bad for for the tech industry and the future of our country.
Apple's next which will be good for the millions of their customers and those developing software for the platform. I look forward to a the time when these monopolies have been wrangled and technology can bring us real advancements again.
I don't think Apple is next. Not all monopolies are illegal. In fact, it's a stretch to call the App Store a monopoly. You have to use it if you want to use Apple's products. But there are other products that don't require it. It's just not the same. Unless it's shown that Apple is illegally harming competing software developers in favor of their own products, it's not the same case.
Ask a developer what they think of the App Store, monopolies in a capitalist society show the failure of the system, a lively competitive market is over when a monopoly has been reached in any industry. Monopoly = no pressure to improve your service or product, no completion in pricing for those products or services, innovation slows to a crawl. Apple has been snatching up small companies for a couple of decades now, in reality they either used the technology those companies have developed or keep it from ever being competition to Apple's products. This is bad for for the tech industry and the future of our country.
Oh, please. Most of these tech companies you allude to were created for the sole purpose of getting to the big payday.
We can no longer trust anything this now highly politicized Justice Department does or says.
Google has long been the target of conservatives angry that their propaganda and conspiracy theories don't pop up at the top of every search. Now, they have the long arm of the law to twist arms and insure that that happens.
Right, because we could trust it under the previous administration. You know, the one that spied on a presidential campaign using fake, foreign information. The one that drummed up a fake case against General Flynn, Carter Page and George Papadopoulos? The one that refused to prosecute Hillary Clinton despite massive evidence of guilt? That one?
Nice conspiracy theories bro! You make Q-Anon look like amateurs!
This was inevitable. And it's going to touch on other areas, such as YouTube. I don't mean bias, either. Right now, if you Google a video you want to find on the competing platform, Rumble, you'll get a bunch of YouTube links. Default search engines are one thing....deliberately excluding competitors of your subsidiary is another. Google is going to get destroyed on this.
Are you saying if you specify Rumble in the search terms you get Youtube instead?
it looks like the number one video on Rumble at the moment is
Rescued cat has the most adorable vet exam ever
I don't know that it's even a Rumble produced video but search it and see what gets surfaced.
Lord help us if this action forces Apple to use Bing
No, it wouldn’t remotely do that.
More likely it would force Apple to offer users a choice of default search browser when setting up a phone.. Of course, everyone will then choose Google anyway.
the irony is that this could be great for Google. Most iOS users will still pick them but now they don’t have to pay Apple anything.
You don't have to use Google as your default search? I use Duck Duck Go on all of my devices? Yes it is preset with Google, but settings-safari-search engine allows that to be changed easily? Unless I misunderstood what you meant by offering users a choice of default?
I do agree however most people will just got to google.com and search anyway. Even with Duck Duck go.. I sometimes have to still give in and use Google because I simply can't find what I am looking for.
This power struggle will take some time to play out and hopefully both sides will reveal their true intentions in front of a public audience, who unfortunately will likely neither care nor engage at a level deeper than deciding who they believe should win the latest edition of Dancing with the Stars. I do not for a minute believe that this move by the DOJ is in any way driven by a desire to protect consumers or serve the public interest. The vast majority of those supposedly affected are completely oblivious to the so-called "damage" that's being inflicted upon them and will be equally oblivious to any possible remedies.
This is a tiny opening skirmish of what will become a much larger power struggle yet to be waged. The spoils of war that are being contested between Big Government and Big Tech are all about who gets to exert influence and, at some point, control public mindshare, quite often applied in tweet sized servings. The dollars and cents are immaterial, despite the ease at which very large, monopoly-appearing numbers can be put forth due to network effects that have never been exploited to the degree that they are now able to be applied.
Google Search is simply an excuse to engage the machinery that will be used to grind down one of the major players into compliance. Google will not be the last. The DOJ's naughty list has already been put together, strategically sorted, public opinions primed, and everyone on the list will eventually get their time in the vice and ground down to an appropriate and compliant size in due time.
Can these companies do anything to avoid the grinder? Not if they continue to play by their own rules. If they were a little smarter, a little less ethical, willing to redefine who their real customers are, and willing to play along with the power brokers in DC and the beltway they could become part of the military and political industrial complex and thus be shielded from further scrutiny. After all, once the government has a primary stake in the outcome, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. Maybe Google needs to give the G-men editorial control of all that sweet analytics data, maybe Apple needs to open up that back door to let in some NSA breeze, and Amazon, I don't know, maybe Amazon gives them a master switch for taking control of Alexa, both query harvesting and query responses ... "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't answer that question."
I think it's a flawed approach which is why so few states joined in. And look at the states that did...politics at play, not law and not an honest reproach of Googles harvesting of personal data and using customers as products. Indiana is lucky it's same country as CA where 90% of all the tech they use comes from. How's the Indiana tech boom going?
I have a feeling that Google may win this. The DOJ would have to prove that Google is an abusive monopoly that has harmed consumers. As others have pointed out they aren’t a monopoly. Google is already arguing that people are choosing to use Google. Admittedly it’s the default search engine and while they have a choice, most donn’t, but they have a choice. Harm to consumers would be hard to prove as well. If most people “choose” Google when they have other options, that would imply that consumers don’t see it as harm. This isn’t the same as Microsoft twenty years ago. Microsoft was not only blocking other browsers and getting sites to code specifically for Explorer. they were charging companies a license fee per computer whether or not Windows was installed. Microsoft was clearly harming consumers and had around 95% of the market. None of that appears to be the case with Google.
I think the DOJ will have trouble proving their case. Mind you I think Google is despicable in every action. I have tried to eliminate using any of their products. But that’s a far cry from proving a case in court.
This was inevitable. And it's going to touch on other areas, such as YouTube. I don't mean bias, either. Right now, if you Google a video you want to find on the competing platform, Rumble, you'll get a bunch of YouTube links. Default search engines are one thing....deliberately excluding competitors of your subsidiary is another. Google is going to get destroyed on this.
Oh I hope YouTube gets it the worst. Like Google they are manipulating results and sending results that clash with their agenda to the last pages.
YouTube is promoting anti-male videos and removing/de-monetizing self-help videos for men who are depressed or need help.
They also removed millions of dislikes on the toxic masculinity Gillette ad.
Apple is safe because if its App Store was somehow declared illegal it could simply shut down the entire store with minimal consequence on its business. Apple could return to the status it had under the iPhone's first release: no App Store.
I looked at the apps on my iPhone, all of them had a website equivalent which means I can get the same functionality without the apps. Of course these apps are probably a bit more visually slick and secure as apps, but if the government wants to make the App Store illegal in any way, then Apple can revert to having no App Store once again. And it could do this on a country-by-country basis.
I have a feeling that Google may win this. The DOJ would have to prove that Google is an abusive monopoly that has harmed consumers. As others have pointed out they aren’t a monopoly. Google is already arguing that people are choosing to use Google. Admittedly it’s the default search engine and while they have a choice, most donn’t, but they have a choice. Harm to consumers would be hard to prove as well. If most people “choose” Google when they have other options, that would imply that consumers don’t see it as harm. This isn’t the same as Microsoft twenty years ago. Microsoft was not only blocking other browsers and getting sites to code specifically for Explorer. they were charging companies a license fee per computer whether or not Windows was installed. Microsoft was clearly harming consumers and had around 95% of the market. None of that appears to be the case with Google.
I think the DOJ will have trouble proving their case. Mind you I think Google is despicable in every action. I have tried to eliminate using any of their products. But that’s a far cry from proving a case in court.
Yes, very true.
My belief is that this is a very politicized Justice Department being used to threaten a media platform that has failed to toe the line.
Apple is safe because if its App Store was somehow declared illegal it could simply shut down the entire store with minimal consequence on its business. Apple could return to the status it had under the iPhone's first release: no App Store.
I'm severely handicapped, and the 27"iMac is my "window on the world." I'm on the computer 8-10 hours a day, and I've tried all the major search engines, but have ended up using Google. Why? Because it can dig deeper into the information i need on drugs, doctors, tests, health plans, Home Care alternatives, eyesight, hearing, beds, toilet seats - - you name it. Yes, other search engines can find the tip of the iceberg, but Google lets you find out what is under the water level.
We can no longer trust anything this now highly politicized Justice Department does or says.
Google has long been the target of conservatives angry that their propaganda and conspiracy theories don't pop up at the top of every search. Now, they have the long arm of the law to twist arms and insure that that happens.
Right, because we could trust it under the previous administration. You know, the one that spied on a presidential campaign using fake, foreign information. The one that drummed up a fake case against General Flynn, Carter Page and George Papadopoulos? The one that refused to prosecute Hillary Clinton despite massive evidence of guilt? That one?
LOL imagine thinking any of this was true at this point.
I quit using Google search when Apple allowed other search engines. I use Duck-Duck-Go and it works fine.
DDG is really good, but it only returns only a fraction of the links to the types of info that I often search for. I am not suggesting that's your use case, but just that Google's search generally tends to return a more complete and comprehensive set of links. I think a lot of people would agree.
I quit using Google search when Apple allowed other search engines. I use Duck-Duck-Go and it works fine.
Well, you are in the vast minority. Remember, what you read on tech blogs is not in any way reflective of the general population. The nerd herd and its opinions cannot be extrapolated to cover the majority of users. Not even close.
I’ve been using Duck Duck Go for years. I think this is a dumb move by the DOJ.
Comments
Ask a developer what they think of the App Store, monopolies in a capitalist society show the failure of the system, a lively competitive market is over when a monopoly has been reached in any industry. Monopoly = no pressure to improve your service or product, no completion in pricing for those products or services, innovation slows to a crawl. Apple has been snatching up small companies for a couple of decades now, in reality they either used the technology those companies have developed or keep it from ever being competition to Apple's products. This is bad for for the tech industry and the future of our country.
Bing works just fine and at least I can collect Amazon or other gift cards every month or so.
Oh, please. Most of these tech companies you allude to were created for the sole purpose of getting to the big payday.
Nice conspiracy theories bro! You make Q-Anon look like amateurs!
it looks like the number one video on Rumble at the moment is
Rescued cat has the most adorable vet exam ever
I don't know that it's even a Rumble produced video but search it and see what gets surfaced.
This is a tiny opening skirmish of what will become a much larger power struggle yet to be waged. The spoils of war that are being contested between Big Government and Big Tech are all about who gets to exert influence and, at some point, control public mindshare, quite often applied in tweet sized servings. The dollars and cents are immaterial, despite the ease at which very large, monopoly-appearing numbers can be put forth due to network effects that have never been exploited to the degree that they are now able to be applied.
Google Search is simply an excuse to engage the machinery that will be used to grind down one of the major players into compliance. Google will not be the last. The DOJ's naughty list has already been put together, strategically sorted, public opinions primed, and everyone on the list will eventually get their time in the vice and ground down to an appropriate and compliant size in due time.
Can these companies do anything to avoid the grinder? Not if they continue to play by their own rules. If they were a little smarter, a little less ethical, willing to redefine who their real customers are, and willing to play along with the power brokers in DC and the beltway they could become part of the military and political industrial complex and thus be shielded from further scrutiny. After all, once the government has a primary stake in the outcome, they aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them. Maybe Google needs to give the G-men editorial control of all that sweet analytics data, maybe Apple needs to open up that back door to let in some NSA breeze, and Amazon, I don't know, maybe Amazon gives them a master switch for taking control of Alexa, both query harvesting and query responses ... "I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't answer that question."
I think the DOJ will have trouble proving their case. Mind you I think Google is despicable in every action. I have tried to eliminate using any of their products. But that’s a far cry from proving a case in court.
Which ones?
Oh I hope YouTube gets it the worst. Like Google they are manipulating results and sending results that clash with their agenda to the last pages.
YouTube is promoting anti-male videos and removing/de-monetizing self-help videos for men who are depressed or need help.
They also removed millions of dislikes on the toxic masculinity Gillette ad.
I looked at the apps on my iPhone, all of them had a website equivalent which means I can get the same functionality without the apps. Of course these apps are probably a bit more visually slick and secure as apps, but if the government wants to make the App Store illegal in any way, then Apple can revert to having no App Store once again. And it could do this on a country-by-country basis.
I wonder which country will be the first to pull the trigger. Probably Russia: https://www.engadget.com/russia-app-store-commission-law-20-percent-101553875.html <--
Why? Because it can dig deeper into the information i need on drugs, doctors, tests, health plans, Home Care alternatives, eyesight, hearing, beds, toilet seats - - you name it.
Yes, other search engines can find the tip of the iceberg, but Google lets you find out what is under the water level.