Intel should focus on winning the performance game vs AMD and Apple’s M1. Not doing these marketing stuff or dirty tricks against AMD.
Macs esp the laptops are designed for a very small percentage of the market. Mainly the consumer market. They are not very expandable, have many limitations on adding monitors, they don’t even have an ethernet port. These things are essential for the professional market. This insane crusade to limit physical ports simplify and miniaturize is affecting reliability and really hampering their adoption in the biggest market segments. That’s fine and its a design choice, just don’t expect the mass of computer users out there to buy them.
I was one of those unfortunate buyers of the mac book pro which had that designed flawed butterfly dud of a keyboard which broke outside of warranty. Apple quoted me $890 to replace it! Wtf! That was the last apple computer i ever bought. i paid $1800 for that pos and now its paper weight! Why does apple continue to miniaturize its hardware and compromise reliability?
I was one of those unfortunate buyers of the mac book pro which had that designed flawed butterfly dud of a keyboard which broke outside of warranty. Apple quoted me $890 to replace it! Wtf! That was the last apple computer i ever bought. i paid $1800 for that pos and now its paper weight! Why does apple continue to miniaturize its hardware and compromise reliability?
Given that the repairs on it have been free for a few years now, I'm not sure where/when the $890 quote is from. In 2018, you said a keyboard repair was $360. Given your post date earlier, are you talking about a repair on a 2015?
Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
My son-in-law is a show producer for a company that creates and manages live, in-person, corporate events. He has a literal suitcase full of adapters and dongles to ensure connections between all manner of hardware like computers, projectors, giant multi-screen displays, lighting, audio, video, WiFi, ethernet, you name it.
So if there’s a ‘dongle debacle’ it’s a worldwide technology debacle, not Apple alone.
The “you name it” would also include power adapters to connect to the mains sockets in different countries. As soon as I’m aware that I’m going to be traveling to Singapore or Germany or China I’m going to make sure I have a plug and/or power adapter to use when I get there.
It’s all about awareness of what your needs are and what your computer (or any other tool) provides. No tool can address every need for everyone in every possible situation. If you live in Canada you probably need winter tires for your car, whether or not the model car you buy has winter tires mounted from the factory.
I think the people who whine the most about dongles do it mostly for effect, and not because they’ve actually been caught off guard by not having a dongle available that they could not have anticipated needing beforehand.
If you buy a computer that only has USB-C ports and you’ve been around computers and using USB thumb drives at any point in the past 20 years and to the present, you’d probably be aware that there is an adapter in your future. The scenario where someone hands you a USB-A thumb drive out of the blue and you’re like “Holy crap - what is that thing and where do I stick it?” seems like a bit of a stretch.
Did your own stash of USB-A thumb drives or devices suddenly disappear when you bought a computer with no USB-A ports? Me neither. Heck, I still have a hard requirement for a serial (RS-232) port on my Windows PC. I either install a PCI serial card or use a USB-A to RS-232 dongle. It’s neither Intel’s nor Apple’s problem that my port legacy needs don’t match either vendors’s current computer configurations. I’m aware of the disparity and solve it with a dongle.
Change happens. Your cheese gets moved. You gotta go find it. A dongle just might help.
They have a major point in terms of gaming or 3D/CAD apps. While we can push back against that, Apple seriously needs to do something about it. It isn't just a technical issue either, it is a perception issue. (As I mentioned in another thread, I tried to get some GPU-crypto-mining going the other day, and in researching - it's a no-go btw - the dev community has simply given up on Apple... I've heard the same expressed w/in the 3D community.)
First, *if* Apple is going to continue with 3rd party GPU support and eGPUs, they need to come out and be really clear about that. Their dropping of it, and not saying anything, is stupid, as well as irresponsible. I hope it is just a 1st generation issue, but how they've handled this is utter incompetence.
Aside from that, yeah, it is a poorly executed ad-campaign. Intel, on the other hand, needs to get to work on the actual technology, not trying to cover it over via marketing.
entropys said: That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
Yeah, while I know heading into the future can sometimes be a bit painful, they've made it unnecessarily so. I've probably spent $200+ in the last year in our family on various cables and adapters to work around Apple's stupidly-imposed port limitations. And, it isn't like a now have a neater setup or anything. It's all plus for apple, inconveniences for me, for the most part.
I have 6 or 7 Windows laptops, and several MacBook laptops... I just gotta say, it is nothing new that the USB dongle situation is truly out of control for macs. You need a dongle for everything... dongles dongles dongles... I don't have any dongles connected to any of my Windows PCs... why? Because PCs generally bother to put appropriate ports for things like HDMI, displayport, Ethernet, and USB-A.
And SO WHAT if you need an nVidia or AMD chip to play games decently on a Windows PC... AT LEAST YOU HAVE THE OPTION...
re: dongles - yeah, that's the thing. Almost everything requires a dongle. I suppose some day, everything will come with a USB-C connector? (If there isn't some other port by then.) But, right now USB-C is still the odd-ball.
And, yeah, the article talks like having to buy a AMD or Nvidia GPU is a bad thing, but what's the alternative? Wimpy GPU power and support? No thanks. Apple totally blew that one. (At least they could be clear on what their future plans are for GPU needs.)
Dear Intel, have you seen the back side of a PC lately? It's not a pretty sight.
Probably prettier than the mess of cables and dongles hanging OUTSIDE my Mac.
Detnator said: ... All those points you’re complaining about are positive points for Apple’s target market. Apple is not in the business of making devices for everyone. ... Apple has always pushed things forward and left past and even current tech behind.
Umm... I've been an Apple user since the late '80s. I love when they push tech forward. However, I get the difference between that and bullshit marketing. Explain how Apple going to USB-C *ONLY*, or dropping the 3.5mm jack, or dropping GPU/eGPU support, etc. pushes technology forward, please.
Detnator said: He said he’d rather just have USB-C everywhere. And so would I. And so would a lot of people. It’s unfortunate that there are a lot of other people holding us back from that, very arguably better, situation.
Well sure, but then there's also reality. I wish my Mac were fission-nuclear powered too, but I've got to live in the real world with it. Having USB-C ports.... awesome. Having *ONLY* USB-C ports... stupid (on anything but the tiniest of devices).
mcdave said: Best to buy modern cables with the odd dongle for the odd exception.
Problem is that it isn't the exception. USB-C is the exception. Hopefully that will change some day... the question is how many years into the future?
mcdave said: & dongling out old connectors (HDMI, USB xyz) with USB-C female dongles rather than dongling out the new stuff.
So, I should spend $100s, maybe $1000s on cables and docs for each connector (when afaik, a true hub still doesn't even exist)... and what benefit do I get from doing so? A bunch more things to go wrong? Possible incompatibilities and flakiness? A really messy desk? A lighter wallet? Bragging rights that I'm futuristic?
MplsP said: You do realize that there are many people who are heavily invested in Apple, so switching to a PC is not as simple as simply buying one, right? Unlike PCs you have no choice with Macs - there's one manufacturer, so if you want a Mac you have to ether take it or leave it. That gives Apple definite advantages in controlling the architecture, but at the expense of limited choice for users. You and many others seem to think that people are required to love everything Apple unconditionally. If they don't they are just a Troll and can go screw themselves and buy a PC. It'e entirely possible that you prefer Macs and MacOS but are annoyed by the needless inconveniences that Apple decides to foist upon their users.
Well said! There are clearly trolls, but everyone complaining about Apple isn't a troll. What other feedback method do we have but to make a public outcry and hope it gets 'loud' enough that someone at Apple notices and cares?
Fidonet127 said: People want modern Macs, and some people don’t want old connections.
Woah! Who are these people you speak of? And, are connections that are on like 95% of everything old? I'm not anti-USB-C, but I also have to live in reality. I need a *MIXTURE* of ports until they are truly old and I don't need them anymore, or at least sufficiently rare that I'm happy to deal with an adapter in some (hopefully increasingly rare) situations.
Beats said: This is the same old “until they hand you an aux cord” argument that didn’t age well. None of these ever age well.
Huh? What about that didn't age well?
MplsP said: I don’t dispute that USB C is the future, and I’m not opposed to USB C devices; my complaint is with consumers being forced to use a connection that saddles them with extra costs and inconvenience because Apple thinks the future is more important than the present.
Exactly! You have to go out of your way, currently, to find USB-C solutions. And, often there are none, so you need adapters/dongles. That isn't a future I want! If the rest of th world eventually catches up with this supposed future, then fine. Until then, it would be nice not to have to be so inconvenienced for someones' dream.
I am SO disappointed that Apple doesn't support RS-232 for my Trinitron monitor! AND my SS/SD hard sector 5.25" floppy drive. AND SCSI! Where do I plug in my 250 MB full height hard drive? A perfectly good $1500 gone to waste.
This is a bit too silly/absurd to deserve a response, except that some people actually argue like this (straw man) is their opposition. Do you see any SCSI devices around or Trinitron monitors? Do you see any USB-A ports/cords or 3.5mm jacks? One of these is not like the other.
MplsP said: I have no idea what percentage of people would use a USB A port or an HDMI port on a MacBook if they existed, but I do know that it’s not a small number and I am not the only one here on AI who feels that way. Here’s a prime example - when my daughter bought a new laptop for college she looked at Macs and PCs and one of the first things she noticed was the PC has a ‘normal’ (her words, not mine) USB port and an HDMI port. She didn’t want to have to worry about forgetting a dongle when she needed to make a presentation or use a friends flash drive. She’s an average, nontechnical 20 year old woman, not some IT-type who gets worked up about specs. She just cares about using her computer.
The people who don’t use any ports at all won’t care either way and would be happy with nothing but a power cable.
Exactly! This tech-neophyte 'average' computer user who is supposedly Apple's *new* target market (if one is to believe that!?) will actually be frustrated by Apple's port decisions.
Fidonet127 said: I’m not saying people who want USB-A ports is a small number. This isn’t 2015, things have changed. A good deal of people have moved on.
That's the problem... things haven't changed all that much. You have to go looking for USB-C things, as most of the world is still USB-A. And, if you get beyond thumb-drives and maybe portable storage, USB-C is nearly non-existent.
When the majority of peripherals are USB-C, then sure. Heck, when USB-C is even an OPTION, then maybe.
dewme said: I think the people who whine the most about dongles do it mostly for effect, and not because they’ve actually been caught off guard by not having a dongle available that they could not have anticipated needing beforehand.
Nope, I've spent the money and gone through the hassle. I complain because it was stupid, and I'd like to see Apple do better. And, for the sake of the less technical people who buy Apple products who are confused and frustrated by Apple's poor decisions.
Yes, if *I* were going to a client meeting, I'd have a USB-A to C adapter along. A lot of less-technical people wouldn't.
dewme said: Did your own stash of USB-A thumb drives or devices suddenly disappear when you bought a computer with no USB-A ports? Me neither. Heck, I still have a hard requirement for a serial (RS-232) port on my Windows PC. I either install a PCI serial card or use a USB-A to RS-232 dongle. It’s neither Intel’s nor Apple’s problem that my port legacy needs don’t match either vendors’s current computer configurations. I’m aware of the disparity and solve it with a dongle.
Except it isn't really a legacy port in the real world until it isn't widely used any longer. And, the point isn't that it is impossible to solve, but the frustration, cost, and confusion involved needlessly.
If you cannot understand that old ports should not be on modern laptops, then move away from tech and live in a cave.
Got it - you're going to try the "old is not useful" trope. Do I really need to explain the difference between 'old' and 'useful' to you?
What is useful and convenient to you doesn’t mean the same thing to others. To others, all USB-C is convenient and useful. Somehow you can’t understand that. In this and other threads people have been wanting only USB-C. Period. Again, having only USB-C ports hasn’t hurt Apple’s sales. Yes it is inconvenient to some people. Most people do not notice the lack of USB-A, let alone think of it as dongle hell. This is because most people’s workflow doesn’t involve cables or devices, except for power or involve wireless devices most of the time. Additionally, the added weight, space and power consumption isn’t worth it for most people. Yes additional ports will consume additional power. Additional ports involve additional milling and parts. Additional milling, parts and power consumption is added negative environmental impact. USB-A is not what people think of as modern.
I have no idea what percentage of people would use a USB A port or an HDMI port on a MacBook if they existed, but I do know that it’s not a small number and I am not the only one here on AI who feels that way. Here’s a prime example - when my daughter bought a new laptop for college she looked at Macs and PCs and one of the first things she noticed was the PC has a ‘normal’ (her words, not mine) USB port and an HDMI port. She didn’t want to have to worry about forgetting a dongle when she needed to make a presentation or use a friends flash drive. She’s an average, nontechnical 20 year old woman, not some IT-type who gets worked up about specs. She just cares about using her computer.
The people who don’t use any ports at all won’t care either way and would be happy with nothing but a power cable. For the people that do, how many people need 4 TB USB C ports? Very few, so I would wager the number of people inconvenienced by buying, keeping track of and losing dongles is significantly greater.
As for the power consumption of extra ports - seriously? They use the same controller and the ‘cost’ of milling a USB A (or HDMI) port is the same as milling a USB C port. If you want to talk about manufacturing then add the manufacturing costs of the dongles to be consistent.
You seem to be hung up on ‘modern.’ I’m hung up on usability. You’re also forgetting that the majority of USB C ports on computers are simply USB 3 and have zero added capabilities beyond a USB A port, so I fail to see how they are any more modern, other than adding confusion over capabilities.
One last thing - when I use my MBP at my desk with my Apple BT keyboard, I routinely have to plug the keyboard in because the BT connection isn’t reliable. I use the USB A cable that came with the keyboard.
Wrong. I’m pointing out usability, convenience and modern. You cannot accept for some people, all three USB-C is what they want and works for them. I’ve acknowledged that for some people they want USB-A.
For Macs, the USB-C ports are not just USB 3, they are also Thunderbolt so they offer a lot more flexibility, power, and bandwidth. USB-A doesn’t have any of that. USB-A is backwards and you have to make sure it is plugged in right side up. So yes, USB-C ports are more modern. Yes they offer a lot more bandwidth. We are talking about Macs. Apple isn’t responsible for the confusion with PC ports.
Yes power consumption for two reasons. One is people use Laptops on battery power. More Watts used, less run time. Second, these Watts add up when you are talking about millions of computers. This is the scale Apple is dealing with.
Again, cables wear out and some point Apple will either not include a cable with the keyboards or put in USB-C cables. The iPhones come with USC-C cables. I use the USB-A cable that came with my keyboard to charge it with my 5W power adapter that people complained about.
I’m not saying people who want USB-A ports is a small number. This isn’t 2015, things have changed. A good deal of people have moved on. You and many others can complain all you want, however Apple is unlikely to add those ports to the Laptops. If they do, it doesn’t bother me.
I can and have accepted that some people use 4 TB ports (as well as that at some point USB C will likely take over,) but what I also stated is that precious few people actually use all 4 TB ports and significantly more would make use of a USB A port. Further more, If you are using USB 3 there is no functional advantage of USB C over USB A. (forget the fact that many devices actually use USB 2.)
You admit that not a small number of people use USB A ports and are implicitly admit that USB A is still a large part of the computer landscape yet argue that ignoring that gives 'usability, convenience and modern.' Arguing that requiring a dongle or a cable purchase is more usable and convenient is quite frankly baffling. Convenient is being able to use a device with a minimum of extra work or equipment. Again, I don't care if something is old or new - I just care if it's easy to use and does the job. If something is 'modern' but makes my life more difficult then I have no use for it.
I know that all the ports on Macs are combined TB3/USB but you stated "old ports should not be on modern laptops" so I pointed out how there are plenty of modern laptops that have USB A ports and plenty more that have USB C ports that are only USB 3 without TB and so have no functional advantage over a USB A port. You are essentially arguing that a laptop with USB C USB 3 ports is more 'modern' than one that has USB A USB 3 ports, which makes no sense.
As far as power consumption goes, please prove to me how a USB A port consumes more power than a USB C port. As I said, they use the same controller, or even a smaller one if you're replacing a combined TB 3/USB controller with a straight USB 3 controller, so there is no power savings. If anything the USB C would use more power but my guess is a well-designed laptop would have no difference. (I don't know if a USB A-C dongle consumes power or if it's simply a pass-through, most likely the latter.)
I understand Apple is unlikely to add back a USB A port (or an HDMI port) which means I'm stuck with an inconvenient USB C port unless I want to leave Apple. I just find it incredibly frustrating when Apple sacrifices usability for some vision of the future which doesn't match most people's current reality, even 6 years later.
MplsP said: I understand Apple is unlikely to add back a USB A port (or an HDMI port) which means I'm stuck with an inconvenient USB C port unless I want to leave Apple. I just find it incredibly frustrating when Apple sacrifices usability for some vision of the future which doesn't match most people's current reality, even 6 years later.
The other problem I haven't seen mentioned, is that often the dongle versions of things like Ethernet or video can be flaky, which is quite unusual for built-in ports. That further complicates the situation, and unless you find the right brand dongle, potentially makes them unusable.
I remember when Apple went was the first to go all USB-A and everyone bitched and moaned. It was obviously the right move then, just as going USB-C is now. The difference is that USB-C is the port that does it all.
Isn't part of the "Dongle Problem" of Intels making? They have had control of Thunderbolt chips for a while now so instead of being widely adopted it isn't. If they had freed up licensing and allowed other to make hub chips for it I'd assume we'd see the sort of adoption we now starting to see.
At least this year USB-c hubs insides displays are becoming common so one USB-c connection to Laptop or small footprint machine gets you, Ethernet, SD cards, USB-a for keyboards and minor/legacy accessories.
I remember when Apple went was the first to go all USB-A and everyone bitched and moaned. It was obviously the right move then, just as going USB-C is now. The difference is that USB-C is the port that does it all.
Except that it didn't. It went all-USB-A instead of things like ADB... in other words, the serial component bus. So, yes, we had to have adapters for keyboards/mice, and maybe a few peripherals (like a software dongle key, etc.). But, we still had video ports, Ethernet ports, etc. and they all worked pretty well.
Also, I lived though that, and can't remember complaining (maybe I did?). But, it wasn't nearly the pain this transition is (assuming it actually happens... and does so in under a decade... we're already half-way).
What I do remember was the Duo Dock era that promised one connection for everything.... for as long as that lated. This is starting to feel more like that. And, is Apple even supporting the the TB future anymore? Is my eGPU a paperweight? Inquiring minds would like to know!
mattinoz said: At least this year USB-c hubs insides displays are becoming common so one USB-c connection to Laptop or small footprint machine gets you, Ethernet, SD cards, USB-a for keyboards and minor/legacy accessories.
Yes, so you can now get a dock with most fo what you need in terms of ports for $100-200, I guess. You have to be careful about quality if you need your Ethernet and video to work correctly. You'll probably need drivers (so future usefulness?).
<sarcasm> It really is an favor and convenience Apple is providing to have to buy additional gear that might work. </sarcasm>
I'll be convinced about the transition when I can buy all my peripherals in USB-C/TB form to begin with, and actual hubs exist into which I can plug several USB-C cables which all these peripherals come with (and the plug on the peripheral end is USB-C as well, instead of some absolutely-completely-horrrible connector with a USB-C on the other end).
It will be great if the USB-C/TB dream happens some day (assuming we're not heading into some new 'standard' before then), and they get all the cable confusion worked out, etc. But, we're currently not even at the infancy point in that transition yet, 5+ years into it. It's mostly just been an inconvenience, expense, and a LOT of pretending we're futuristic.
Now- my M1 MacMini- can't connect to my Drobo- which is a 72 TB paperweight.
Gee - thanks Apple.
The rest of your comment was illogical garbage, but I want to address this point: how is this Apple's fault??
The reason your M1 Mac mini can't connect to your Drobo is because Drobo decided not to write (or to delay writing) the software it needs to run. This is 100 percent on them, they're a registered developer with Apple and it's not like Apple kept developers in the dark about how to stay compliant with current and upcoming technologies.
Your projection of this blame onto Apple is a good illustration of the lack of logic evident in the rest of your post.
USB-C has functional advantages, including convenience over USB-A/3.0. USB-C can deliver much more power, up to 100 Watts to power Laptops and other high power items that USB-A/3.0 cannot. USB-C the bandwidth for up to 20 or 40Gbps, which USB-A/3.0 cannot. USB-C is a reversible connection, which is easier to plug in, without having to look at the connector.
My personal experience with the ASi laptop is despite all the USB-A devices and cables we have, we rarely use any cable except for the one for power. We hardly ever use dongles. There is no worry or feeling like USB-C only laptop is a mistake. Certainly not feeling like we’re are in dongle hell. Cables wear out and when they do, get the USB-C if you like, no need to rush the changer over.
I just bought the 2020 M1 MBA. It works great and runs circles around my work-issued Dell Latitude. The only time I've used a USB A anything in the last two years has been to charge my iPhone. I work in a customer-facing IT role, and it has been years since a customer handed anything to me on a flash drive. Even my Dell has a USB-C port that I use to connect to whatever is needed, including a dock that has two display port monitors. USB C is the future, and the longer that we hang onto old tech, the longer it will continue to get made. Getting rid of the USB A port is a change, but Apple getting rid of it pushes the industry forward in a good way.
Fidonet127 said: My personal experience with the ASi laptop is despite all the USB-A devices and cables we have, we rarely use any cable except for the one for power.
... The only time I've used a USB A anything in the last two years has been to charge my iPhone. ... USB C is the future, and the longer that we hang onto old tech, the longer it will continue to get made. Getting rid of the USB A port is a change, but Apple getting rid of it pushes the industry forward in a good way.
Well, and then there are people like me... I've got a software dongle (USB-A), a little audio interface (USB-A), a mic (USB-A), a scanner which I don't use much, but (USB-A), some external drives (USB-A, one USB-C). I also run HDMI and Ethernet, which would suck if I had to depend on a dongle/dock for that (luckily I have a Mac mini/eGPU which has those ports).
But, the bigger problem is if they were all USB-C, how would I even plug them all in? There are no USB-C hubs. I suppose there are some technical reasons, but it's probably mostly lack of demand.... because so few peripherals are USB-C!
For my new iPhone 12 mini, I took the USB-C cable it came with so I now hook my devices to my computer with it, as it was useless for charging. I don't have any USB-C power bricks (which Apple seemed to assume I would).
As mentioned earlier, sure I can buy docks, adapters, and dongles. I've spent over $200 on them in the last year alone ($200 I wouldn't have had to spend with previous generation Apple gear). They've basically pushed off the irritations and costs associated with THEIR push to the future, onto me. Thanks, Apple!
I'm an early tech adopter. I always have been. I've paid to be bleeding edge. But, usually there was something in it for me. I've yet to really see what that is with USB-C. It's not so much that it is bad (it is confusing), but that it would be nice if some reasonable percentage of the world were using something before it was declared the new 'standard' and everything else (widely in use) the 'legacy.'
Not at all sure what it has to do with the CPU, but there is kinda a point about the dongle debacle.
You know, other than the fact that there are all USB-C Windows laptops, and Intel was instrumental in the development of the physicality and protocol of the connector.
Besides that, still no. Computer users have been adapting since day one, and will continue to do so forever.
All usb-c makes sense for ultra mobile form factors since it is the “do anything” port. USB-C represents the end of dongles since everything new is USB-C. The Mac Mini, iMac, and Mac Pro have traditional ports. I’ve pretty much converted all my USB-A ports to low wattage USB-C ports with compact adaptors at this point anyway. I’ve put USB-C cables on all my drives, monitors, etc. I’d rather just have USB-C everywhere.
That’s lovely. Right up until your client hands you their stuff on a usba memory stick.
And you plug it into your 6" USB-C -> USB-A adapter, or your TB 3/4 dock that has many USB-A ports.
Even if all your ports are USB-C, you will still need different cables for high power, or high data rates or both. The fun part is they all have the same connectors, but are not interchangeable.
No - you just stop being cheap, and only buy cables that support the full standard, including high power & high data rates. Not that hard, unless you're cheap or want it to be hard.
Comments
Given that the repairs on it have been free for a few years now, I'm not sure where/when the $890 quote is from. In 2018, you said a keyboard repair was $360. Given your post date earlier, are you talking about a repair on a 2015?
If you buy a computer that only has USB-C ports and you’ve been around computers and using USB thumb drives at any point in the past 20 years and to the present, you’d probably be aware that there is an adapter in your future. The scenario where someone hands you a USB-A thumb drive out of the blue and you’re like “Holy crap - what is that thing and where do I stick it?” seems like a bit of a stretch.
First, *if* Apple is going to continue with 3rd party GPU support and eGPUs, they need to come out and be really clear about that. Their dropping of it, and not saying anything, is stupid, as well as irresponsible. I hope it is just a 1st generation issue, but how they've handled this is utter incompetence.
Aside from that, yeah, it is a poorly executed ad-campaign. Intel, on the other hand, needs to get to work on the actual technology, not trying to cover it over via marketing.
Yeah, while I know heading into the future can sometimes be a bit painful, they've made it unnecessarily so. I've probably spent $200+ in the last year in our family on various cables and adapters to work around Apple's stupidly-imposed port limitations. And, it isn't like a now have a neater setup or anything. It's all plus for apple, inconveniences for me, for the most part.
re: dongles - yeah, that's the thing. Almost everything requires a dongle. I suppose some day, everything will come with a USB-C connector? (If there isn't some other port by then.) But, right now USB-C is still the odd-ball.
And, yeah, the article talks like having to buy a AMD or Nvidia GPU is a bad thing, but what's the alternative? Wimpy GPU power and support? No thanks. Apple totally blew that one. (At least they could be clear on what their future plans are for GPU needs.)
Umm... I've been an Apple user since the late '80s. I love when they push tech forward. However, I get the difference between that and bullshit marketing. Explain how Apple going to USB-C *ONLY*, or dropping the 3.5mm jack, or dropping GPU/eGPU support, etc. pushes technology forward, please.
Well sure, but then there's also reality. I wish my Mac were fission-nuclear powered too, but I've got to live in the real world with it.
Having USB-C ports.... awesome. Having *ONLY* USB-C ports... stupid (on anything but the tiniest of devices).
Problem is that it isn't the exception. USB-C is the exception. Hopefully that will change some day... the question is how many years into the future?
So, I should spend $100s, maybe $1000s on cables and docs for each connector (when afaik, a true hub still doesn't even exist)... and what benefit do I get from doing so?
A bunch more things to go wrong? Possible incompatibilities and flakiness? A really messy desk? A lighter wallet? Bragging rights that I'm futuristic?
Well said! There are clearly trolls, but everyone complaining about Apple isn't a troll. What other feedback method do we have but to make a public outcry and hope it gets 'loud' enough that someone at Apple notices and cares?
Woah! Who are these people you speak of? And, are connections that are on like 95% of everything old? I'm not anti-USB-C, but I also have to live in reality. I need a *MIXTURE* of ports until they are truly old and I don't need them anymore, or at least sufficiently rare that I'm happy to deal with an adapter in some (hopefully increasingly rare) situations.
Exactly! You have to go out of your way, currently, to find USB-C solutions. And, often there are none, so you need adapters/dongles. That isn't a future I want! If the rest of th world eventually catches up with this supposed future, then fine. Until then, it would be nice not to have to be so inconvenienced for someones' dream.
This is a bit too silly/absurd to deserve a response, except that some people actually argue like this (straw man) is their opposition.
Do you see any SCSI devices around or Trinitron monitors? Do you see any USB-A ports/cords or 3.5mm jacks? One of these is not like the other.
Exactly! This tech-neophyte 'average' computer user who is supposedly Apple's *new* target market (if one is to believe that!?) will actually be frustrated by Apple's port decisions.
That's the problem... things haven't changed all that much. You have to go looking for USB-C things, as most of the world is still USB-A. And, if you get beyond thumb-drives and maybe portable storage, USB-C is nearly non-existent.
When the majority of peripherals are USB-C, then sure. Heck, when USB-C is even an OPTION, then maybe.
Yes, if *I* were going to a client meeting, I'd have a USB-A to C adapter along. A lot of less-technical people wouldn't.
Except it isn't really a legacy port in the real world until it isn't widely used any longer. And, the point isn't that it is impossible to solve, but the frustration, cost, and confusion involved needlessly.
You admit that not a small number of people use USB A ports and are implicitly admit that USB A is still a large part of the computer landscape yet argue that ignoring that gives 'usability, convenience and modern.' Arguing that requiring a dongle or a cable purchase is more usable and convenient is quite frankly baffling. Convenient is being able to use a device with a minimum of extra work or equipment. Again, I don't care if something is old or new - I just care if it's easy to use and does the job. If something is 'modern' but makes my life more difficult then I have no use for it.
I know that all the ports on Macs are combined TB3/USB but you stated "old ports should not be on modern laptops" so I pointed out how there are plenty of modern laptops that have USB A ports and plenty more that have USB C ports that are only USB 3 without TB and so have no functional advantage over a USB A port. You are essentially arguing that a laptop with USB C USB 3 ports is more 'modern' than one that has USB A USB 3 ports, which makes no sense.
As far as power consumption goes, please prove to me how a USB A port consumes more power than a USB C port. As I said, they use the same controller, or even a smaller one if you're replacing a combined TB 3/USB controller with a straight USB 3 controller, so there is no power savings. If anything the USB C would use more power but my guess is a well-designed laptop would have no difference. (I don't know if a USB A-C dongle consumes power or if it's simply a pass-through, most likely the latter.)
I understand Apple is unlikely to add back a USB A port (or an HDMI port) which means I'm stuck with an inconvenient USB C port unless I want to leave Apple. I just find it incredibly frustrating when Apple sacrifices usability for some vision of the future which doesn't match most people's current reality, even 6 years later.
They have had control of Thunderbolt chips for a while now so instead of being widely adopted it isn't.
If they had freed up licensing and allowed other to make hub chips for it I'd assume we'd see the sort of adoption we now starting to see.
At least this year USB-c hubs insides displays are becoming common so one USB-c connection to Laptop or small footprint machine gets you, Ethernet, SD cards, USB-a for keyboards and minor/legacy accessories.
Also, I lived though that, and can't remember complaining (maybe I did?). But, it wasn't nearly the pain this transition is (assuming it actually happens... and does so in under a decade... we're already half-way).
What I do remember was the Duo Dock era that promised one connection for everything.... for as long as that lated. This is starting to feel more like that. And, is Apple even supporting the the TB future anymore? Is my eGPU a paperweight? Inquiring minds would like to know!
Yes, so you can now get a dock with most fo what you need in terms of ports for $100-200, I guess. You have to be careful about quality if you need your Ethernet and video to work correctly. You'll probably need drivers (so future usefulness?).
<sarcasm> It really is an favor and convenience Apple is providing to have to buy additional gear that might work. </sarcasm>
I'll be convinced about the transition when I can buy all my peripherals in USB-C/TB form to begin with, and actual hubs exist into which I can plug several USB-C cables which all these peripherals come with (and the plug on the peripheral end is USB-C as well, instead of some absolutely-completely-horrrible connector with a USB-C on the other end).
It will be great if the USB-C/TB dream happens some day (assuming we're not heading into some new 'standard' before then), and they get all the cable confusion worked out, etc. But, we're currently not even at the infancy point in that transition yet, 5+ years into it. It's mostly just been an inconvenience, expense, and a LOT of pretending we're futuristic.
The rest of your comment was illogical garbage, but I want to address this point: how is this Apple's fault??
Also, a USB A to USB C adaptor on Amazon is 3 for $8.
But, the bigger problem is if they were all USB-C, how would I even plug them all in? There are no USB-C hubs. I suppose there are some technical reasons, but it's probably mostly lack of demand.... because so few peripherals are USB-C!
For my new iPhone 12 mini, I took the USB-C cable it came with so I now hook my devices to my computer with it, as it was useless for charging. I don't have any USB-C power bricks (which Apple seemed to assume I would).
As mentioned earlier, sure I can buy docks, adapters, and dongles. I've spent over $200 on them in the last year alone ($200 I wouldn't have had to spend with previous generation Apple gear). They've basically pushed off the irritations and costs associated with THEIR push to the future, onto me. Thanks, Apple!
I'm an early tech adopter. I always have been. I've paid to be bleeding edge. But, usually there was something in it for me. I've yet to really see what that is with USB-C. It's not so much that it is bad (it is confusing), but that it would be nice if some reasonable percentage of the world were using something before it was declared the new 'standard' and everything else (widely in use) the 'legacy.'