Apple's Chinese wind power partner linked to Uyghur forced labor programs

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 143
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
  • Reply 22 of 143
    hexclockhexclock Posts: 1,256member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
    Research is done precisely to gather evidence, is it not?
    tmay
  • Reply 23 of 143
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    hexclock said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
    Research is done precisely to gather evidence, is it not?
    Show me what are the evidences? Can you create a list? 
  • Reply 24 of 143
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    hexclock said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
    Research is done precisely to gather evidence, is it not?
    Show me what are the evidences? Can you create a list? 
    I get the feeling that the only evidence you’ll accept is when the CCP throw you and your family into a detention centre.

    First they came for the Uyghurs, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a Uyghur.
  • Reply 25 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
  • Reply 26 of 143
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    The thing is Georgy, Trump never told you who "those people" were, largely because they were just anonymous berks and nutjobs on Twitter.  These reports are sourced, they have testimonials, there are credible people going on the record saying that these things happened to them.

    You are drawing a false equivalency between a world class bullshitter who never faced any consequences and investigative reporters putting themselves on the line.

    And sure, this isn't definitive proof, but neither is it a lack of evidence; testimony is evidence, and it should be treated seriously.  Your casual disregard and constant invocation of Trump is not serious.  You are not serious.  And consequently everyone should ignore you.
    tmayelijahg
  • Reply 27 of 143
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    Every Chinese new year eve China will have a four hour celebration until midnight broadcast to whole nation and the world, There will always be at least one show that shows its 56 races working together. The one child policy is directed mainly to the Hans. Minorities got exceptions.
    Here is a list of the shows you may be able to watch.

  • Reply 28 of 143
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
    It seems apparent that you will not consider anything as evidence. 
    tmayelijahg
  • Reply 29 of 143
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    This seems a reverse logic of what really happened. Goldwind Science & Technology may be trying to train Uyghurs to work. If you are being trained you are not considered a formal employee and got paid little. Similar things happened in silicon valley. Some young people wants to get into some high tech company. They volunteered to do work without pay. Without the facts it is too early to judge Goldwind Science & Technology is using forced labor. 
    In the US job-required training is paid time. If your time is spent on company or client work, you should be getting paid. Period. "Fuck you pay me" is the correct term.
    The key point is whether they are being paid same as regular employee. There are news some students from elite schools such as Harvard or MIT are being paid very well. 
    No, the key point is that it is forced labor, that they have no choice in whether they want to participate in the work, whether the pay is acceptable, and whether the conditions of employment, including locations of employment, are acceptable.
    There is a problem here. CCP always like to stress that it deems race equality is very important. Why a Chinese company dares to violate this policy? Again this human right group does not provide doubtless evidence. It seems just a overstretched accusation. 
    Sure, because China is well known for allowing investigative journalists into the country for the express purpose of exposing China's human rights violations. /s

    I don't know where you came up with that statement about equality, but given that the population is some 95% Han, and there is evidence that the PRC is attempting to limit reproduction of minorities, which meets the definition of genocide, then of course, why would anyone believe the PRC? 
    The evidence you quoted is not enough to be a true evidence. 
    Looks like there is even evidence provided by Chinese bureaucrats;

    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/exclusive-amid-accusations-genocide-west-china-polices-could-cut-millions-uyghur-2021-06-07/

    "Chinese birth control policies could cut between 2.6 to 4.5 million births of the Uyghur and other ethnic minorities in southern Xinjiang within 20 years, up to a third of the region’s projected minority population, according to a new analysis by a German researcher.

    The report, shared exclusively with Reuters ahead of publication, also includes a previously unreported cache of research produced by Chinese academics and officials on Beijing’s intent behind the birth control policies in Xinjiang, where official data shows birth-rates have already dropped by 48.7% between 2017 and 2019.

    Adrian Zenz’s research comes amid growing calls among some western countries for an investigation into whether China’s actions in Xinjiang amount to genocide, a charge Beijing vehemently denies.

    The research by Zenz is the first such peer reviewed analysis of the long-term population impact of Beijing’s multi-year crackdown in the western region. Rights groups, researchers and some residents say the policies include newly enforced birth limits on Uyghur and other mainly Muslim ethnic minorities, the transfers of workers to other regions and the internment of an estimated one million Uyghurs and other ethnic minorities in a network of camps."

    But, but, no evidence...

    This is evidence? 
    It seems apparent that you will not consider anything as evidence. 
    The "evidences" quoted in the news article are raw data. They try to extract "truths" from them covered with anti-China agenda. The real truth is should be obtained from these data with facts. 
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 30 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    crowley said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    The thing is Georgy, Trump never told you who "those people" were, largely because they were just anonymous berks and nutjobs on Twitter.  These reports are sourced, they have testimonials, there are credible people going on the record saying that these things happened to them.

    You are drawing a false equivalency between a world class bullshitter who never faced any consequences and investigative reporters putting themselves on the line.

    And sure, this isn't definitive proof, but neither is it a lack of evidence; testimony is evidence, and it should be treated seriously.  Your casual disregard and constant invocation of Trump is not serious.  You are not serious.  And consequently everyone should ignore you.

    LOL....   So, a report reports that someone said....   And you believe it because it validates your hate.

    I bet you were fantastic in middle school:   "Did you hear what somebody said about Tommy, the kid I hate?"
  • Reply 31 of 143
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    No Georgy, I don't automatically believe it, but I do think it's credible, and that credible allegations should be taken seriously.  And not only don't I hate anything, I have no skin in this game at all.  Your binary worldview is steering you into an irrational place.
    elijahg
  • Reply 32 of 143
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,341member
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    gatorguyelijahg
  • Reply 33 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

  • Reply 34 of 143
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,341member
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.

    gatorguyelijahg
  • Reply 35 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    edited June 2021
  • Reply 36 of 143
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,341member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    Oh, that was Pew Research;

    https://www.pewresearch.org

    "Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. We conduct public opinion polling, demographic research, content analysis and other data-driven social science research. We do not take policy positions." 

    Survey methodology;

    "In each of the 16 publics surveyed, more than six-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden to do the right thing in world affairs. Looking at 12 nations surveyed both this year and in 2020, a median of 75% express confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump last year."

    Who was surveyed;

    France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, UK, Spain, South Korea, Australia, Greece

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/china-celebrating-diversity-suppressing-xinjiang-communist-party

    "The brutal clampdown in Xinjiang represents an about-face from the communist party’s original approach to cultural differences"


    BTW, you still have your head up your ass.
    elijahg
  • Reply 37 of 143
    waveparticlewaveparticle Posts: 1,497member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    Oh, that was Pew Research;

    https://www.pewresearch.org

    "Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. We conduct public opinion polling, demographic research, content analysis and other data-driven social science research. We do not take policy positions." 

    Survey methodology;

    "In each of the 16 publics surveyed, more than six-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden to do the right thing in world affairs. Looking at 12 nations surveyed both this year and in 2020, a median of 75% express confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump last year."

    Who was surveyed;

    France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, UK, Spain, South Korea, Australia, Greece

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/china-celebrating-diversity-suppressing-xinjiang-communist-party

    "The brutal clampdown in Xinjiang represents an about-face from the communist party’s original approach to cultural differences"


    BTW, you still have your head up your ass.
    China is not surveyed. And you believe this survey is believable. lol
    GeorgeBMac
  • Reply 38 of 143
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,341member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    Oh, that was Pew Research;

    https://www.pewresearch.org

    "Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. We conduct public opinion polling, demographic research, content analysis and other data-driven social science research. We do not take policy positions." 

    Survey methodology;

    "In each of the 16 publics surveyed, more than six-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden to do the right thing in world affairs. Looking at 12 nations surveyed both this year and in 2020, a median of 75% express confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump last year."

    Who was surveyed;

    France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, UK, Spain, South Korea, Australia, Greece

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/china-celebrating-diversity-suppressing-xinjiang-communist-party

    "The brutal clampdown in Xinjiang represents an about-face from the communist party’s original approach to cultural differences"


    BTW, you still have your head up your ass.
    China is not surveyed. And you believe this survey is believable. lol
    Near 100% of the Chinese public have expressed confidence in Xi, and those that don't, suffer the consequences.

    Does that sound about right?

    Of course, Pew Research isn't going to be able to conduct independent social research in the PRC, are they. Those countries in the research study; all democracies.
    edited June 2021 elijahg
  • Reply 39 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    Oh, that was Pew Research;

    https://www.pewresearch.org

    "Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. We conduct public opinion polling, demographic research, content analysis and other data-driven social science research. We do not take policy positions." 
    Survey methodology;

    "In each of the 16 publics surveyed, more than six-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden to do the right thing in world affairs. Looking at 12 nations surveyed both this year and in 2020, a median of 75% express confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump last year."

    Who was surveyed;

    France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, UK, Spain, South Korea, Australia, Greece

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/china-celebrating-diversity-suppressing-xinjiang-communist-party

    "The brutal clampdown in Xinjiang represents an about-face from the communist party’s original approach to cultural differences"


    BTW, you still have your head up your ass.
    China is not surveyed. And you believe this survey is believable. lol

    He believes what he wants to believe.   He hates China -- so he takes anything negative about it as gospel truth.

    In his own words:  "His head is up his ass"
  • Reply 40 of 143
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Here we go again....

    " A report claimed...."
    ".... has been accused ...."
    "blah, blah, blah..."
    ... Where "claims" and "accusations" constitute definitive proof.

    Soon we will see coming from China:
    "A report claimed {that Apple forces workers to work without pay]'
    "[Apple] has been accused [of stealing ip from Huawei]....."

    Isn't  it time to stop this bullshit?
    It's just standard propaganda crap:   You start with an unproven assumption or accusation and then just keep building on it till the fools assume it's reality.  

    Trump was a master at it:   "Many people are saying...."  and then letting FauxNews and the right wing propaganda machine repeat the lie till it became reality for the cult.
    Yeah, who are you going to believe, Amnesty International, and Human Rights Watch, plus a plethora of other NGO sources, or the Chairman for Life successor of Mao...

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2016/08/03/giving-historys-greatest-mass-murderer-his-due/

    Go ahead and take your time to figure that out...
    I'll wait for actual evidence of serious wrongdoing instead of hate, propaganda and hearsay.

    Meanwhile I'll concern myself with important and verified injustices that happen daily right here in America as well as those actually attacking our democracy -- you know, the stuff you ignore because you're so busy hating on China.

    Biden is dong pretty well, considering he has only been in office for about 140 days.

    Xi, on the other hand, has been in power since March of 2013, so yeah, not doing so great. You seem a solid Xi supporter, so I'm guessing that you believe there are a lot of China Haters that you need to respond to.

    Me, there's a whole lot of people in the world that don't trust Xi or the PRC, and given the lack of transparency in China, I find that the evidence that has come to light, is the tip of the iceberg of what will ultimately be uncovered.

    You're on the wrong side of this, but that's where contrarians like you want to be.


    LOL...  Who did you query?   Your deluded, delusional friends?
    Because you hate China and its president doesn't mean the Chinese do.  

    By the way, that 24% without confidence in Biden are the crazies expecting Trump to be reinstated in August.
    Oh, that was Pew Research;

    https://www.pewresearch.org

    "Pew Research Center is a nonpartisan fact tank that informs the public about the issues, attitudes and trends shaping the world. We conduct public opinion polling, demographic research, content analysis and other data-driven social science research. We do not take policy positions." 
    Survey methodology;

    "In each of the 16 publics surveyed, more than six-in-ten say they have confidence in Biden to do the right thing in world affairs. Looking at 12 nations surveyed both this year and in 2020, a median of 75% express confidence in Biden, compared with 17% for Trump last year."

    Who was surveyed;

    France, Germany, Japan, Italy, Netherlands, Canada, Sweden, UK, Spain, South Korea, Australia, Greece

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jun/10/china-celebrating-diversity-suppressing-xinjiang-communist-party

    "The brutal clampdown in Xinjiang represents an about-face from the communist party’s original approach to cultural differences"


    BTW, you still have your head up your ass.
    China is not surveyed. And you believe this survey is believable. lol
    At the heart of the ongoing smear campaigns being conducted by western nations against China is a power struggle:  China will no longer submit to being dominated by the western nations who once colonized it and other countries throughout the world.   From Reuters, their message to the G7 (which is increasingly looking like a private club of self declared elite) is clear and direct:

    _________________________________________________________________________
    China on Sunday pointedly cautioned Group of Seven leaders that the days when “small” groups of countries decided the fate of the world was long gone, hitting back at the world’s richest democracies which have sought a unified position over Beijing.

    "The days when global decisions were dictated by a small group of countries are long gone," a spokesman for the Chinese embassy in London said.

    "We always believe that countries, big or small, strong or weak, poor or rich, are equals, and that world affairs should be handled through consultation by all countries."
    _________________________________________________________________________


    Somehow they sound more democratic than those touting democracy but practicing a modernized version of colonialism.
    Democracies, real ones, include all -- not just the chosen few.


    edited June 2021
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