White House shot down Intel plans to increase chip production in China

124

Comments

  • Reply 61 of 95
    As a counter example, look at Tesla. Tesla almost went bankrupt a year ago. Its factory in Shanghai saved it and skyrocketed Elon Musk to become the richest person on earth. It is apparently due to China. 
    Tesla almost went bankrupt in May of 2019. The Chinese factory didn't come online until December of that year and it didn't achieve scale of any significance until mid 2020, so no. Shanghai didn't save it. What saved Tesla was the Fremont factory being able to hit its targets by pulling out all of the stops and then achieving a weekly production rate of 6k model 3s by December of 2019.
    cg27llama
  • Reply 62 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    Blizzard said:
    And, it wasn't a minor diplomatic problem.  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.

    All Australia did was call for an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 virus. That is pretty reasonable request.

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.
    China's laughably stupid trade ban;

    https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/beijings-ban-on-australian-coal-is-hurting-china/

    Every million tonnes of coal has recently been costing China’s steel mills more than US$400 million, compared with around US$250 million paid by steel mills everywhere else. The difference is entirely explained by China’s embargo on Australian coal.

    Since China’s mills use almost 2 million tonnes of coal every day, the premium it pays above coal costs in the rest of the world adds up to about US$2 billion a week.

    If the embargo were dropped tomorrow, Chinese mills wouldn’t make that entire saving: world prices would rise once Australian coal started flowing to China, but Chinese prices would surely fall.

    China’s ban on Australian coal purchases from around November last year has caused huge distortions in the global coal market, with separate Chinese and rest-of-the-world pricing developing for both metallurgical coal used by steel mills and thermal coal used by power stations.

    The disruption has been greatest for metallurgical coal. Australian exports account for 58% of the global seaborne trade in metallurgical coal, compared with 21% in thermal coal. In 2019–20, China took a little over a third of Australia’s premium metallurgical coal exports and Australia supplied about 55% of China’s metallurgical coal imports.

    As BHP expressed it in its annual results report, ‘Australia was both the largest seaborne exporter of metallurgical coal and the largest seaborne supplier to the clearing market, China. Therefore, this bilateral trading relationship was much more than just one of many in a vibrant and competitive global trade—it was the sun around which the other planets of the [metallurgical] coal solar system orbited.’

    Of course this is metallurgical coal for steel mills, not thermal coal for power plants, but given how much of China's economy revolves in building infrastructure, some 30%, it has a huge impact.
  • Reply 63 of 95
    Blizzard said:
    As a counter example, look at Tesla. Tesla almost went bankrupt a year ago. Its factory in Shanghai saved it and skyrocketed Elon Musk to become the richest person on earth. It is apparently due to China. 


    Tesla almost went bankrupt in May of 2019. The Chinese factory didn't come online until December of that year and it didn't achieve scale of any significance until mid 2020, so no. Shanghai didn't save it. What saved Tesla was the Fremont factory being able to hit its targets by pulling out all of the stops and then achieving a weekly production rate of 6k model 3s by December of 2019. 

     TSLA stock started to rise in October, 2019. It reached a peak Feb 17,2020. This chart coincides very well with the completion of Shanghai factory. The Fremont factory has been operating for many years. Even if it made improvement, it is insignificant compared to the sales Shanghai factory brought to Tesla. 
  • Reply 64 of 95
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
  • Reply 65 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
  • Reply 66 of 95
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

  • Reply 67 of 95
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 68 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    LOL.
     
    Your post doesn't indicate anything that supports your previous post;

    "That the Biden Administration doesn't have the guts to reverse the unfair traded practices Trump targeted toward China alone".
    First of all, the tariffs were a U.S. response to the existing unfair trade practices of China.

    Your second post states explicitly that;

    "You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    So, Tariffs were a response to unfair trade practices of China, and the Biden Administration currently retains those same tariffs, though they are considering some tariff reductions. 

    Either way, none of this looks at all like the mishmash of your posts.

  • Reply 69 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    United Front Work Department is recruiting morons...
  • Reply 70 of 95
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    LOL.
     
    Your post doesn't indicate anything that supports your previous post;

    "That the Biden Administration doesn't have the guts to reverse the unfair traded practices Trump targeted toward China alone".
    First of all, the tariffs were a U.S. response to the existing unfair trade practices of China.

    Your second post states explicitly that;

    "You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    So, Tariffs were a response to unfair trade practices of China, and the Biden Administration currently retains those same tariffs, though they are considering some tariff reductions. 

    Either way, none of this looks at all like the mishmash of your posts.

    You don't understand business. You don't understand economy. Period. 
  • Reply 71 of 95
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    Different things. Trump's trade war is unjust. Reversing it is to be fair not pleasing. 
  • Reply 72 of 95

     TSLA stock started to rise in October, 2019. It reached a peak Feb 17,2020. This chart coincides very well with the completion of Shanghai factory. The Fremont factory has been operating for many years. Even if it made improvement, it is insignificant compared to the sales Shanghai factory brought to Tesla. 

    So, in other words, the Shanghai factory didn't save Tesla. You are like Donald Trump in that you see things that don't exist in a company's stock price. Fremont factory is currently producing over 400,000 vehicles a year. That is basically the exact same amount as the Shanghai factory. I don't know a single Tesla executive, including Musk, that would claim that the Fremont factory is insignificant when compared to the Shanghai factory when it comes to sales. Especially when you consider the fact that Tesla is investing millions if not billions of dollars to further boost the production at Fremont by over 100,000 vehicles a year. In fact, per the link the majority of sales capacity is still at Fremont as it is believed to have the capacity to sell 600,000 whereas the Shanghai factory has an estimated max capacity at 450k. https://insideevs.com/news/542318/tesla-production-sites-assignment-october2021/
  • Reply 73 of 95
    Blizzard said:

     TSLA stock started to rise in October, 2019. It reached a peak Feb 17,2020. This chart coincides very well with the completion of Shanghai factory. The Fremont factory has been operating for many years. Even if it made improvement, it is insignificant compared to the sales Shanghai factory brought to Tesla. 

    So, in other words, the Shanghai factory didn't save Tesla. You are like Donald Trump in that you see things that don't exist in a company's stock price. Fremont factory is currently producing over 400,000 vehicles a year. That is basically the exact same amount as the Shanghai factory. I don't know a single Tesla executive, including Musk, that would claim that the Fremont factory is insignificant when compared to the Shanghai factory when it comes to sales. Especially when you consider the fact that Tesla is investing millions if not billions of dollars to further boost the production at Fremont by over 100,000 vehicles a year. In fact, per the link the majority of sales capacity is still at Fremont as it is believed to have the capacity to sell 600,000 whereas the Shanghai factory has an estimated max capacity at 450k. https://insideevs.com/news/542318/tesla-production-sites-assignment-october2021/
    You added the word sales to my insignificant sentence. What I meant is profit. Musk has said the Shanghai factory makes better cars. It is strong words. He implicates that Chinese workers are better. 
  • Reply 74 of 95
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    Different things. Trump's trade war is unjust. Reversing it is to be fair not pleasing. 
    How is Biden trying to please China then, given that the most clear and obvious this he could do to please them is something that he is very markedly not doing?

    Since you understand business and economy you must be really on top of this and have an excellent example to hand…
  • Reply 75 of 95
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    Different things. Trump's trade war is unjust. Reversing it is to be fair not pleasing. 
    How is Biden trying to please China then, given that the most clear and obvious this he could do to please them is something that he is very markedly not doing?

    Since you understand business and economy you must be really on top of this and have an excellent example to hand…
    He sent representative to China a few times. If he is not trying to please China, he does not have to do. 
  • Reply 76 of 95
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    tmay said:
    lorca2770 said:
    The chip shortage will continue under Biden administration. Companies will not manufacture chips in US. They cannot make money. If they try to raise prices they need to double or triple the prices. And this route is not working. Democrats have no concept of capitalism. 
    Nothing to do with the Biden admin., "Domocrats....., "that is why all the GOP barons are shutting the big AMERICAN tech companies. Democrats have traditionally recued the economy for the benefit of the GOP. Think Obama, with the crisis od 2008, not only HE lifted the economy but handled down to Trumpet the best EVER American economy. Now go back to school
    Biden is trying to please China. This is why he is being smeared as Go, Brandon.  Under the tremendous pressure of Republican senators hostility toward China, Biden administration does not have the guts to reverse the unfair trade practices Trump targeted toward China alone. 
    That's complete bullshit. 

    https://www.npr.org/2021/10/04/1043027789/biden-is-keeping-key-parts-of-trumps-china-trade-policy-heres-why

    President Biden has made a clean break with the policies of his predecessor in many areas. But not when it comes to trade with China.

    The Biden administration isn't scrapping a trade deal brokered by former President Donald Trump in the final year of his presidency. Instead, it plans to pressure China for not meeting its promises made under that deal.

    The Biden administration also plans to broadly maintain Trump's tariffs on U.S. imports of Chinese goods, though it will reopen an exclusion process to provide exemptions for certain goods.

    In other words, key elements of Trump China trade policy will remain intact. In a major speech on the issue Monday, U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai said the administration won't take any tools off the table, including the possibility of additional tariffs in the future. 

    "Above all else, we must defend — to the hilt — our economic interests," Tai said in the speech, which came after a months-long internal review of U.S.-China trade policy. 

    "That means taking all steps necessary to protect ourselves against the waves of damage inflicted over the years through unfair competition," she said.


    You need to post links to support your post, because nothing that I have come across indicate that at all.
    BS  I said correctly. Democrats don't know business. They only know to take money from business. Elon Musk debated with Sanders this weekend on this issue. Trade deal? What a nice neutral word nor chose! This is not truth. Trump launched a war. Was it really an unfair competition? US was the victim? How come AAPL and TSLA and stock indexes are able to reach all time high despite the dark cloud of monster inflation in 30 years? 
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/full-transcript-treasury-secretary-janet-yellen-face-the-nation-11-14-2021/

    MARGARET BRENNAN: In terms of near-term relief, China's leaders have repeatedly asked for the Trump era tariffs to be lifted. If the Biden administration did that, would it make things cheaper? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: It would make some difference. Tariffs do tend to raise domestic prices. We put those tariffs in place; President Trump and his administration did as a retaliation for unfair trade practices-- 

    MARGARET BRENNAN: Should they stay in place? 

    SECRETARY YELLEN: You know, we have said- the U.S. Trade Representative Katherine Tai has said that we are revisiting the phase one trade deal and recognizing requests to reduce tariffs in some areas. So that's certainly something that's under consideration. 

    Biden is trying to please China... by not having the guts to please China?  Nice one.
    Different things. Trump's trade war is unjust. Reversing it is to be fair not pleasing. 
    How is Biden trying to please China then, given that the most clear and obvious this he could do to please them is something that he is very markedly not doing?

    Since you understand business and economy you must be really on top of this and have an excellent example to hand…
    He sent representative to China a few times. If he is not trying to please China, he does not have to do. 
    Wow, what a kiss ass he is!  Representatives!  Next step he'll be in the gimp suit.
  • Reply 77 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s 
    concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    edited November 2021 PShimi
  • Reply 78 of 95
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
  • Reply 79 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,437member
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    PShimi
  • Reply 80 of 95
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    As long as Xi is in power, he will not eat his word. I am guessing one reason he won't give up power because there are many people in China that want to use force to reunite Taiwan. By being the leader, he can control these people. 

    I have clearly proved that the articles you read missed important facts. That makes their logic completely wrong. 

    I explained this before. US politicians and western media are constantly falling into the trap of the Indian parable of the blind men and an elephant toward China. This is because they don't have all the facts and they don't care to look for it. Instead they just brand the facts as untrue. 
    edited November 2021
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