White House shot down Intel plans to increase chip production in China

1235»

Comments

  • Reply 81 of 95
    You added the word sales to my insignificant sentence. What I meant is profit.  

    I didn't add any words, what I quoted is what you said. You said sales. You said it is insignificant when compared to the sales of Shanghai and that is just not true. Now you are moving the goal post and saying profit. Well, the Tesla Model S and Model X are their highest profit margin vehicles and those are entirely done at the Fremont plant and they basically sell the same number of vehicles but the Fremont has the highest profit margin vehicles. See where this is going? Fremont makes more profit than Shanghai. Just take the L.
    edited November 2021 muthuk_vanalingam
  • Reply 82 of 95
    Blizzard said:
    You added the word sales to my insignificant sentence. What I meant is profit.  

    I didn't add any words, what I quoted is what you said. You said sales. You said it is insignificant when compared to the sales of Shanghai and that is just not true. Now you are moving the goal post and saying profit. Well, the Tesla Model S and Model X are their highest profit margin vehicles and those are entirely done at the Fremont plant and they basically sell the same number of vehicles but the Fremont has the highest profit margin vehicles. See where this is going? Fremont makes more profit than Shanghai. Just take the L.
    Sorry, I said it incorrectly. You are right. The facts of the truth about Tesla are complicated. I made the summary too quickly. 
  • Reply 83 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,439member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    As long as Xi is in power, he will not eat his word. I am guessing one reason he won't give up power because there are many people in China that want to use force to reunite Taiwan. By being the leader, he can control these people. 

    I have clearly proved that the articles you read missed important facts. That makes their logic completely wrong. 

    I explained this before. US politicians and western media are constantly falling into the trap of the Indian parable of the blind men and an elephant toward China. This is because they don't have all the facts and they don't care to look for it. Instead they just brand the facts as untrue. 
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081

    China's President Xi Jinping has said that "reunification" with Taiwan "must be fulfilled", as heightened tensions over the island continue. 


    Mr Xi said unification should be achieved peacefully, but warned that the Chinese people had a "glorious tradition" of opposing separatism.


    In response, Taiwan said its future lay in the hands of its people.

    Taiwan considers itself a sovereign state, while China views it as a breakaway province. 


    Beijing has not ruled out the possible use of force to achieve unification.


    Mr Xi's intervention comes after China sent a record number of military jets into Taiwan's air defence zone in recent days. Some analysts say the flights could be seen as a warning to Taiwan's president ahead of the island's national day on Sunday. 

    Taiwan's defence minister has said that tensions with China are at their worst in 40 years.


    edited November 2021
  • Reply 84 of 95
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    As long as Xi is in power, he will not eat his word. I am guessing one reason he won't give up power because there are many people in China that want to use force to reunite Taiwan. By being the leader, he can control these people. 

    I have clearly proved that the articles you read missed important facts. That makes their logic completely wrong. 

    I explained this before. US politicians and western media are constantly falling into the trap of the Indian parable of the blind men and an elephant toward China. This is because they don't have all the facts and they don't care to look for it. Instead they just brand the facts as untrue. 
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081

    China's President Xi Jinping has said that "reunification" with Taiwan "must be fulfilled", as heightened tensions over the island continue. 


    Mr Xi said unification should be achieved peacefully, but warned that the Chinese people had a "glorious tradition" of opposing separatism.


    In response, Taiwan said its future lay in the hands of its people.

    Taiwan considers itself a sovereign state, while China views it as a breakaway province. 


    Beijing has not ruled out the possible use of force to achieve unification.


    Mr Xi's intervention comes after China sent a record number of military jets into Taiwan's air defence zone in recent days. Some analysts say the flights could be seen as a warning to Taiwan's president ahead of the island's national day on Sunday. 

    Taiwan's defence minister has said that tensions with China are at their worst in 40 years.


    The logic is simple. DPP cannot say Taiwan is not a part of China. All it can say is CCP never ruled Taiwan and its status lies in the hands of Taiwanese. On the other hand, mainland Chinese consider Taiwan is a province of China. Xi says he will not use force. But he can not give impression that he will never reunite Taiwan. He will lose support of the people. The hope is Taiwan will change leadership that will reunite with China. 
  • Reply 85 of 95
    tmaytmay Posts: 6,439member
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    As long as Xi is in power, he will not eat his word. I am guessing one reason he won't give up power because there are many people in China that want to use force to reunite Taiwan. By being the leader, he can control these people. 

    I have clearly proved that the articles you read missed important facts. That makes their logic completely wrong. 

    I explained this before. US politicians and western media are constantly falling into the trap of the Indian parable of the blind men and an elephant toward China. This is because they don't have all the facts and they don't care to look for it. Instead they just brand the facts as untrue. 
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081

    China's President Xi Jinping has said that "reunification" with Taiwan "must be fulfilled", as heightened tensions over the island continue. 


    Mr Xi said unification should be achieved peacefully, but warned that the Chinese people had a "glorious tradition" of opposing separatism.


    In response, Taiwan said its future lay in the hands of its people.

    Taiwan considers itself a sovereign state, while China views it as a breakaway province. 


    Beijing has not ruled out the possible use of force to achieve unification.


    Mr Xi's intervention comes after China sent a record number of military jets into Taiwan's air defence zone in recent days. Some analysts say the flights could be seen as a warning to Taiwan's president ahead of the island's national day on Sunday. 

    Taiwan's defence minister has said that tensions with China are at their worst in 40 years.


    The logic is simple. DPP cannot say Taiwan is not a part of China. All it can say is CCP never ruled Taiwan and its status lies in the hands of Taiwanese. On the other hand, mainland Chinese consider Taiwan is a province of China. Xi says he will not use force. But he can not give impression that he will never reunite Taiwan. He will lose support of the people. The hope is Taiwan will change leadership that will reunite with China. 
    So, not a "peaceful unification".
  • Reply 86 of 95
    cg27cg27 Posts: 220member
    Really enjoying this ping pong match.
    edited November 2021
  • Reply 87 of 95
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    tmay said:
    Blizzard said:

    Yeh - like I said:  Australia joined Trump's smear campaign against China by legitimizing and propagating right wing conspiracy theories against them.  China was smart to shut them off.


    Like I said, Australia made a very reasonable request that there be an international investigation into the origins of the Covid-19 pandemic. There is nothing unreasonable or conspiracy theorist about that.
    You did not have the full story. In 2019 Presidential election in Taiwan, Australia harbored a Chinese fugitive who spread false information accusing CCP involvement in the election. This caused the KMT candidate to lose hugely. 
    Your statement is an outright lie.

    The factual story follows;
     

    https://www.cfr.org/blog/when-election-interference-fails

    On January 11, President Tsai Ying-wen received an overwhelming 57.1 percent of the vote in Taiwan’s general election, winning her a second term. Not only did she win, but she also received the most votes ever cast for a candidate in Taiwan, and her Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) retained control of Taiwan’s legislative body.

    While these results are significant in their own right, they are even more noteworthy because they occurred in spite of China’s concerted effort to prevent Tsai Ying-wen and the DPP from winning. China’s interference in Taiwan’s election was multifaceted, and included paying Taiwanese media outlets to promote China’s preferred candidate, Han Kuo-yu of the Kuomintang, as well as spreading disinformation through social media platforms and launching cyberattacks to steal sensitive Taiwanese government data. These efforts largely failed for three reasons.

    China engaged in a massive disinformation campaign, and Tsai won in spite of the PRC's efforts, and in what would be considered a landslide.

    First, unlike in Taiwan’s 2018 election, social media platforms contained and weakened Chinese influence campaigns. Thanks to Facebook’s decision to crack down on content farms, or accounts that coordinate to spread disinformation, Chinese actors had to try other measures, such as attempting to buy pro-Taiwan Facebook pages. However, due to linguistic differences between China and Taiwan, it was immediately obvious to moderators that the people offering to buy their page were from China. These linguistic giveaways similarly undermined a trend on Instagram and Facebook, where posts by people declaring their intention to vote, pictured holding a fist at their chest, a gesture often used by Han Kuo-yu, and complaining about Taiwan’s economy featured language that seemed strange to Taiwanese readers. Twitter also closed its platform to Chinese trolls and bots by deleting and suspending over two hundred thousand accounts in the months leading up to the election.
    and;

    Second, Taiwan’s government took concrete steps to combat China’s election interference campaign. Government task forces were formed to conduct investigations, and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs partnered with the United States to share expertise and information. Two weeks before the election, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan passed the Anti-Infiltration Act, making attempts to influence elections on behalf of “overseas hostile forces” punishable with up to five years in prison and a fine of over $300,000. Prior to the election, multiple unnamed news sources admitted that China’s Taiwan Affairs Office paid them to censor themselves and run feature stories that portrayed China positively. Taiwan’s National Security Bureau also discovered that Taiwanese news outlets were sending content to Beijing for approval before publishing. The Anti-Infiltration Act provided the legal framework necessary to address these threats. The Taiwanese government also collaborated with Facebook to establish a regional elections center to counter disinformation ahead of the election. On December 13, weeks before the election, the center removed a fan page for Han Kuo-yu that had 150,000 members for violating Facebook’s community standards.
    and;

    Finally, Taiwanese civil society effectively mobilized to combat disinformation. CoFacts, a non-profit staffed by twelve volunteers, designed a chatbot on the social media platform Line to respond to users unsure if something they saw on the platform was legitimate. Once a message is received by the chatbot, it is added to CoFacts’ database and a human volunteer fact-checks it. In the weeks leading up to the election, CoFacts’ volunteers fact-checked thousands of dubious messages. Another non-profit, Taiwan FactCheck Center, partnered with Facebook to track and fact-check viral posts. If a post turned out to be inaccurate, Facebook alerted the user. DoubleThink Labs, an organization founded by academics, monitored one million accounts on Weibo and WeChat and sorted through thousands of instances of suspected fake content daily during the weeks before the election. In addition to fact-checking, groups also focused on educating voters and held workshops on differentiating between real and fake news. These organizations influenced both large corporations and individuals at the grassroots level.

    To be sure, China made a number of mistakes, and many of its attempts to interfere in Taiwan’s general election were too overt. Xinhua, for example, reported on United Front meetings in 2019 that openly discussed using the internet to spread Chinese government ideology. The suicide of Su Chi-cheng, a Taiwanese diplomat in Osaka, after Chinese news outlets falsely reported that he failed to rescue Taiwanese people during Typhoon Jebi further alarmed Taiwanese voters. But while China made mistakes that didn’t help its cause, Taiwan’s success in undermining China’s disinformation campaign was ultimately due to legal measures taken by the Taiwanese government and successful cooperation between the government, civil society, and social media platforms. This model of cooperation should inspire other countries as they prepare to hold elections in 2020.

    Those are fabricated logic. First, DPP use propaganda to claim that Xi wants to reunite Taiwan with force. Xi said repeatedly CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully. So why is there so many Chinese military exercises around Taiwan? This is because the military use exercise to warn the group of people that plan to separate Taiwan from mainland. Recently China named three top Taiwanese officials as separatists. Do you see this news? 

    By using this hostile logic, DDP is able to criminalize any mainland Chinese activity in the election. On the other hand, DPP use money to entice numerous foreigner to praise it. And it does not consider it as infiltration. The truth is Taiwan is making over $100 B each year from China. If China is a real security threat, why does DPP allow this trade with a hostile mainland to continue? The truth is this is pure political move. This is all for election. DPP is using this to steal votes from KMT supporters. The fact is many relatives of DPP are working in mainland China. 

    CCP is very cautious to avoid interfering with elections. Some people in US tried to accuse CCP of interfere in US 2020 election. But they failed. US is a lawful country. Everything has to be fact based. Taiwan is different. DPP exploited the Chinese fugitive in Australia to its election advantage. A Chinese couple from Hong Kong was implied by this criminal. They happened to be in Taiwan looking for investment. They were arrested, accused, and put in house arrest in a hotel for two years. Yes, two years! Recently the prosecution dropped the interference charge because of lack of facts. So Taiwan government has illegally affected personal freedom. 

    I told you so many facts. Do all the propaganda news article you quoted mention any of them? The following is a Taiwanese commentary. You can use Google translation to understand it.
    https://www.chinatimes.com/opinion/20211114003183-262101?chdtv
    You are a purveyor of CCP propaganda. Your "CCP will reunite Taiwan peacefully" is complete bullshit, and everyone in the world knows it.

    End of story.

    Buh Bye!
    As long as Xi is in power, he will not eat his word. I am guessing one reason he won't give up power because there are many people in China that want to use force to reunite Taiwan. By being the leader, he can control these people. 

    I have clearly proved that the articles you read missed important facts. That makes their logic completely wrong. 

    I explained this before. US politicians and western media are constantly falling into the trap of the Indian parable of the blind men and an elephant toward China. This is because they don't have all the facts and they don't care to look for it. Instead they just brand the facts as untrue. 
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-58854081

    China's President Xi Jinping has said that "reunification" with Taiwan "must be fulfilled", as heightened tensions over the island continue. 


    Mr Xi said unification should be achieved peacefully, but warned that the Chinese people had a "glorious tradition" of opposing separatism.


    In response, Taiwan said its future lay in the hands of its people.

    Taiwan considers itself a sovereign state, while China views it as a breakaway province. 


    Beijing has not ruled out the possible use of force to achieve unification.


    Mr Xi's intervention comes after China sent a record number of military jets into Taiwan's air defence zone in recent days. Some analysts say the flights could be seen as a warning to Taiwan's president ahead of the island's national day on Sunday. 

    Taiwan's defence minister has said that tensions with China are at their worst in 40 years.


    The logic is simple. DPP cannot say Taiwan is not a part of China. All it can say is CCP never ruled Taiwan and its status lies in the hands of Taiwanese. On the other hand, mainland Chinese consider Taiwan is a province of China. Xi says he will not use force. But he can not give impression that he will never reunite Taiwan. He will lose support of the people. The hope is Taiwan will change leadership that will reunite with China. 
    So, not a "peaceful unification".
    Xi told Biden today China will hold the fire as long as Taiwan does not cross the redline. 
  • Reply 88 of 95
    Attempts to compromise chip manufacturing are essentially a constant activity. Also stealing proprietary information, etc..

    Of course with intel there are usually vulnerabilities baked in anyway.


  • Reply 89 of 95
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.


    edited November 2021 tmay
  • Reply 90 of 95
    GeorgeBMacGeorgeBMac Posts: 11,421member
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.



    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
  • Reply 91 of 95
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.
    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
    They certainly didn't value the body count in getting to this stage.  It lifted the survivors out of abject policy to a decent standard of living.  And actually, there's still a fair bit of poverty in China too.
  • Reply 92 of 95
    crowley said:
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.
    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
    They certainly didn't value the body count in getting to this stage.  It lifted the survivors out of abject policy to a decent standard of living.  And actually, there's still a fair bit of poverty in China too.

    Neither did the U.S.
    But, unlike the U.S., China is trying to eliminate poverty and class distinctions based on wealth and power.
    edited November 2021
  • Reply 93 of 95
    crowleycrowley Posts: 10,453member
    crowley said:
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.
    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
    They certainly didn't value the body count in getting to this stage.  It lifted the survivors out of abject policy to a decent standard of living.  And actually, there's still a fair bit of poverty in China too.

    Neither did the U.S.
    But, unlike the U.S., China is trying to eliminate poverty and class distinctions based on wealth and power.
    whatabout whatabout whatbout

    China has some pretty severe inequality that has been created by its economic policies.  Their "elimination" attempts are also taking a rather different form in Xinjiang.

    Take off the red tinted glasses George.
    edited November 2021 tmay
  • Reply 94 of 95
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.
    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
    They certainly didn't value the body count in getting to this stage.  It lifted the survivors out of abject policy to a decent standard of living.  And actually, there's still a fair bit of poverty in China too.

    Neither did the U.S.
    But, unlike the U.S., China is trying to eliminate poverty and class distinctions based on wealth and power.
    whatabout whatabout whatbout

    China has some pretty severe inequality that has been created by its economic policies.  Their "elimination" attempts are also taking a rather different form in Xinjiang.

    Take off the red tinted glasses George.
    Watch this youtube video made by a Taiwan TV program about Xinjiang. Xinjiang is a marvelous place and developed greatly in the last forty years. This is completely different from the picture you are trying to portray.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFzgL90v_NE&t=930s
  • Reply 95 of 95
    crowley said:
    crowley said:
    corp1 said:
    Regarding the controversy, I'm sure we can all agree that the benevolent Mr. Xi only wishes to expand the policies that have so greatly enhanced democracy, freedom of speech, and freedom of the press in Hong Kong, as well as the progressive treatment of minorities demonstrated in Xinjiang and Tibet. "We Are Very Free!"

    These policies – combined with the success of the "one country, two systems" approach – are surely inspirational to the people of Taiwan.
    China has also lifted its people out of abject poverty to a decent standard of living in a safe, stable, growing society.  It sounds like they value other things.
    They certainly didn't value the body count in getting to this stage.  It lifted the survivors out of abject policy to a decent standard of living.  And actually, there's still a fair bit of poverty in China too.

    Neither did the U.S.
    But, unlike the U.S., China is trying to eliminate poverty and class distinctions based on wealth and power.
    whatabout whatabout whatbout

    China has some pretty severe inequality that has been created by its economic policies.  Their "elimination" attempts are also taking a rather different form in Xinjiang.

    Take off the red tinted glasses George.

    The red tinted glasses seem to be on you.
Sign In or Register to comment.